I’m with Mighty Ponygirl: This article by Rachel Shukert about how Rock Band saved her marriage was a nightmare. I enjoy writers willing to hang out all their personality flaws for the world to see, but it’s also amazing to me how some of them can describe themselves so well and not realize that these are the sort of soul-destroying personality flaws that will cause them massive problems. Shukert realizes, to a degree, that she’s a nagging, clingy mess, but she doesn’t seem to realize that this is something that is a major problem that can’t be fixed with a video game.
It’s too bad, because I was pretty eager to read the story, as I am both a fan of the video game in question and have a fantasy rock band with my boyfriend called Shitbird. We also have a band with a rotating cast of friends called Cleveland Steamers.* I can testify to the fact that there’s something very socially redeeming about the game. But Great Cat, even correcting for hyperbole, Shukert has it all screwed up and it wasn’t a breezy, fun read. She was making me mad.
I knew from the get-go that we weren’t reading a story by someone with healthy boundaries, when she started the story by recounting how she spent the summer after high school taking up space in her boyfriend’s band’s touring van in an effort to stop him from fucking groupies, and how she had to leave when the band got so fed up with her that they revoked her bathroom privileges. There’s many layers of lack of dignity there, though the bathroom detail—with the contempt for women’s basic rights on the level of the groupie selling in the movie Almost Famous going on—stuck out the most. Still, being a doormat to young men when you’re a young woman is par for the course in our world, and I can’t blame someone for it. What’s sad is that she’s still clingy and wishes to believe that’s endearing instead of flinch-inducing. Flash forward to adulthood.
Ten years later, I am slumped at my computer, reading an Internet recap of a 2-year-old episode of “Top Chef” that I have seen six times. I have not put on hard pants — that is, pants with a zipper or pockets — for four days. The man I married is on the couch in the living room, his eyes glassy as he diddles the control on the Xbox, blowing to smithereens shadowy figures lurching across the screen. We haven’t spoken in several hours.
“Ben?” I say. No answer. “Ben? Ben?” I repeat his name over and over again, with increasing desperation, finally culminating in a single, furious shriek. “BEEEEEENNN!”
We live in a two-room apartment. Next door, the neighbor bangs on the shared kitchen wall, the pounding muffled by drywall. “Quiet!”
Finally, Ben looks up. “Sorry, baby. It’s the noise-canceling headphones.”
Ah yes, the noise-canceling headphones. You could lock Rush Limbaugh, Phyllis Schlafly and Mullah Omar in a room together with a stack of Hustlers and 10 ounces of meth, and they couldn’t come up with anything more misogynist.
And that’s when I got really mad, in a “Oh no you don’t dare!” sort of way. Don’t rope me into the tribe of those who can’t handle our significant other’s hobby, as if all women had that problem. You and your man’s struggles over you wanting attention he’s giving to video games are your own. That broad brush insinuates that all men struggle with having to suffer women’s personalities in order to get laid, and that women have to nag and plead for men’s attentions and that we don’t have dignity enough to hang around hoping men throw us the half-chewed bone of attention. I’m sure there are misogynists out there who express their contempt for their wives’ very existence through passive aggressive use of video games, but if so, that’s a serious problem that is a) not even close to universally shared or b) not something women just have to suffer through without fighting back or preferably distancing themselves from with divorce. If your husband’s a misogynist who neglects you out of contempt, then it’s hard for me to find that a funny story where I’m grateful that the marriage was saved at the end.
Of course, as you can guess, what happens is her husband, in an attempt she characterizes as reluctant, brings home Rock Band so she can have what she wants (time with him) and he can have what he wants (time with the Xbox). Lo and behold, she finds out that she enjoys playing the game for its own sake, so there’s what’s supposed to be a quick man-bites-dog ending. Women enjoy playing and having hobbies! Who’da thunk it? All this time, we thought that women lived for men’s attention and men lived to minimize the attention they give to women while still getting sexual needs met.
I think there is an interesting story in there, even with the gender aspects, about how playing video games can be a self esteem booster for women sorely in need of one. Or hobbies in general. We’ve all seen women suffering in relationships where they are continually hanging around bored, waiting for their men to take some time to entertain them. I’ve written about football widowhood before. Without discounting the value of couples doing things together, I think it’s also important for women, for their own sakes, to realize that hanging around waiting for a man to entertain you while he’s capable of entertaining himself, is damaging. If you catch yourself doing it, get a hobby. One that involves him or doesn’t, but whatever you do, move on.
By the way, the suggestions for how to distract men from their hobbies are unbelievably sexist.
I click on another page, where a forum of concerned women instruct me to regain Ben’s attention by walking around the house dressed in skimpy outfits and waggling my hips provocatively. One enterprising poster, aptly named Cyberhottie69, even suggests draping one’s naked breasts somewhere impossible to miss — like the coffee table, or on his head, like a doughy, undulating hat.
The assumption: Men will never, ever, ever care about your personality or your needs or your desires, because they only keep you around for the sex. So get attention through sex. It’s soul-destroying if it works, but as the writer discovers, it probably won’t, which makes it worse, because you probably (wrongly) assume that distracting men with sex has ever worked for anyone. As far as I know, that’s an urban legend with no validity. My hope is that Shukert was only kidding when she tried it.
*Yes, there’s a theme here. I find poop funny. So sue me. Haven taken my cat to Molly to the vet today for a follow-up appointment—and having had her shit herself like she did last time, demonstrating that it’s an act of defiance more than an accident—I’m considering starting a new band called Molly Protest Events to fit the theme.
54 Responses to “How Rock Band saved your dignity”
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I’m sorry. You cannot both have your dignity and be a member of a band called “The Cleveland Steamers”.
That being said, the woman from the article sounds like a piece of work.
I would hate to let the existence of my marriage ride on the functionality of plastic crap from china.
Shitbird is an awesome band name.
The spouse is a big EVE Online junkie, and that works for me, since I’m an obsessive knitter. We can sit comfortably in the same room, enjoying our hobbies and each other’s company without feeling the need to entertain each other.
When I read the part about the doughy, undulating hat, I felt very awkward. My breasts don’t undulate… I mean, they might heave slightly as I breath, but undulate?! Does she have some sort of motor in her implants that make them jiggle constantly like a jello salad? If I draped my boobs over my husbands head like a hat and started slapping the sides to get the wave-action going, I don’t know if that would do much more than make him laugh.
But then, we do love each other for our sense of humor….
….
(goes off to look for boob motors)
Rao’s breasts undulate.
I sometimes rest my boobs on top of my boyfriend’s head when he’s playing video games. But it’s usually while I’m waiting for my own games to load and it’s purely for my own amusement (they grew quickly within the past 2 years and the fact that I can use them as a “hat” is really the only positive thing I have found about them since their growth spurt).
But yeah…. mine don’t undulate either……especially not while in a “resting on top of head” position.
Sorta on/off topic…
My daughter has Guitar Hero II, and her band’s name is Daughters of Lilith.
I suggested it to her when she got the game. I figure it’s a great fit with the Pandagon vibe. She hadn’t heard of the Lilith myth, so she looked it up - and still thinks it’s a great name…
:)
one of the things I’ve learned in years of relationships and one failed marriage is that when you don’t have your own thing to do- hobby-wise- independent of the relationship you’re dooming it to failure.
I don’t think that I would have a good experience reading that article- it would be too much like looking at the bad parts of myself that I’ve gotten rid of over the past 10 years.
Really? Because there are plenty of people who have a spouse who’s more interested in a hobby than in the living, breathing human they married, and that’s a pretty miserable situation.
I read the original article. The comments include not only the hostile freak who says the story is “BULLCRAP!” because women never initiate sex, ever, but also a few from the “cool girls” who find a solution in joining hubby in his hobby. One even specifically says that the solution is to play with the boys at their own games to be popular.
Hello? Am I supposed to have become a jazz nut because my husband is a professional jazz musician? Apparently some people believe this, given the comments about how I must love jazz and go see him play all the time and know all about it.
No one expects him to be equally enamored of my job or hobbies.
Yes, it’s worth while seeing if there is something fun about your spouse’s hobby or interests if you’re unfamiliar with it, so you can do it together if it’s fun for you, too. But a relationship shouldn’t be based on a choice of either playing his games or finding something else for you to do alone or with friends while he spends his spare time doing something you don’t care about.
I have no way of knowing whether the situation she’s in is dire, or just exaggerated for comic effect.
And I’m not disputing that many women do like playing video or computer games. I enjoy them more than my husband does. That’s not the issue here.
The issue is, to what degree do men typically try to interest themselves in their wives’ hobbies? Compared to the other way around, I don’t think it’s all that common.
Women are admonished to become their husband’s buddy and best friend without anyone giving concomitant advice to men. Maybe that’s because being a woman’s best friend would be a “demotion” to femininity for men, but being a man’s best friend is a “promotion” to masculinity for women. Boys don’t read books about girls. Et fucking cetera.
Men lead and choose. Their choices are the representative choices for all of society. Women follow and adapt. What they want is specific to them and not relevant to the general case.
My primary partner and I both play World of Warcraft. But I’m very into the end game and instances and as much raiding as I can fit into my schedule (lately, that’d be a big fat none; stupid end of quarter), while she very much dislikes all of those experiences and loves playing at the low levels and doing quests in a small group of two or three. It’s nice to have WoW kinda sorta in common, but as often we mourn that we can’t really play together.
It is nice to lay in bed together, each with our laptops, each doing our own thing.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking too. I’m capable of amusing myself, but if my spouse consistently rejected me in favour of a hobby I’d feel pretty awful. I don’t think that makes me pathologically needy or pre-feminist.
Me and my roommate’s band name is Oedipus and the Mama’s Boys.
Yes, it is the greatest band name ever.
No, you can’t use it.
JoAnne, instead of picking up your husband’s hobbies, how about just having some of your own? It’s undignified expecting throwing yourself at a man who isn’t interested. If he’s never interested, then maybe it’s not meant to be. But if the problem is that you’re unreasonably jealous of his hobbies, maybe you need to get your own instead of expecting him to entertain you.
“Rao’s breasts undulate.”
I really loved Okami, but the treatment of women in the game drove me up the fucking wall. It’s an amazing game otherwise, and I have to say I expected more from a game with a female protagonist.
The way Rao is always referred to as “busty babe”….just ew.
Amanda, I didn’t read anything in JoAnne’s comment that said she didn’t have any hobbies. In fact, she said “No one expects him to be equally enamored of my job or hobbies.” Which was the point of her comment, rather than some supposed jealousy or expecting him to entertain her. I thought she made some good points.
I would caution women who play video games to be careful of the “I’m one of the cool girls because I play video games and men like that” possible message.
I would caution someone to avoid accusing me of only liking video games to impress the boys.
“Shitbird.”
Yeah. Classy.
Well, then, I don’t see what her quarrel is. If your husband pays attention to his hobbies to the exclusion of you, then you have serious relationship problems and it probably needs to end. But if he pays attention to his hobbies and to you, and you still find yourself fighting him on his right to have time to indulge his hobbies, you need to grow up and quit clinging pathetically, living up to the stereotype that women have no lives of our own. I don’t see what’s confusing about that. If you have your own life, then you don’t need your husband to entertain you all the time.
Again, if he really is a misogynist or hides from you completely in his hobbies, divorce strikes me as the main option. If a guy can’t ever find you interesting, he doesn’t love you. Cut the string.
What I see and have seen all too often is men who don’t love their significant others taking advantage of women trained to linger and be needy. These men get to feel important without actually taking another person seriously. There’s no reason to stand by a man like that; move on and find someone who finds your company interesting.
If video games aren’t your thing, get your own hobbies. I don’t care. I wasn’t telling anyone to give a shit about their significant other’s hobbies, though it kind of sucks if you’re with someone you have nothing in common with. The main thing is have some dignity. Lurking around a man hoping he’ll pay attention to you is just the worst option imaginable. Get your own hobbies, find something you can share, or leave him if he never pays attention to you. But you don’t have to pout at him and recreate the sitcom scenario where women want men, and men want nothing to do with women except fuck them (if that).
I’m not sure what middle ground you’re picturing here if neither of those two options is valid. Does one of you give up your hobby because the other is not interested?
The other problem, of course, is that it’s not exactly unknown for a spouse/significant other to suddenly pick up or become more obsessed with a hobby as a way of pulling away from the relationship and (potentially) getting ready to leave. If that’s the case, no amount of feigned or genuine interest on your part is going to solve the underlying problem that your spouse/partner is no longer interested in interacting with you.
But a relationship shouldn’t be based on a choice of either playing his games or finding something else for you to do alone or with friends while he spends his spare time doing something you don’t care about.
If it’s literally a situation where spending time with you is a duty instead of a joy, seriously, do both of yourselves a favor and leave. If it’s really come to an either/or situation—where he’s literally using the games to escape your company—then why suffer the indignity of attention from someone who doesn’t want to give it?
Sorry, I just see “time together being spent out of joy instead of duty” being minimum for a relationship. If a man can’t enjoy spending time with you, then you really can find someone who will. Not all men are misogynists who find women’s company intolerable.
I’ve had people try to invade and steal my time I need to do my thing. It’s a wretched thing to do. I have lots of hobbies I enjoy, but somehow I still find time to spend with people I also enjoy. If a man can’t find that time for you, then it’s time to ask the real questions about why not. People’s spare time is prioritized how they see fit. If you punish him with nagging, he gets to play the martyr. If you leave or get a life of your own that doesn’t involve him, you create real consequences. If you find that he doesn’t care and is perfectly happy never to see you again, then you know.
I do think that JoAnne is right about the dynamic, though. If you don’t indulge your male partner’s hobbies, you’re a controlling bitch. If you do indulge them, he gets resentful that you’re humoring him. And there never seems to be a reciprocal requirement that men feign interest in women’s hobbies. The best you usually get is a pat on the head while he goes off to his “important” hobby … like golf.
(Well, except in my house, where I make my husband admire my knitting accomplishments. I listen to his war stories about installing a new hard drive on his computer, so it seems only fair to me that he listen to me complain that my cable went the wrong direction and I had to rip it back. He fakes interest very well.)
Oh, there’s certainly a dynamic that men are supposed to pretend to be interested in women’s hobbies, along the “listen to her babbling and she’ll give up the pussy because she thinks you’re Mr. Caring”.
Sure, mnem. I agree that it’s silly to declare men’s hobbies superior to women’s. And certainly no one expects men to sit around staring at women performing our hobbies, wondering if they’re going to have to whip their dicks out to get our attention.
That’s because men get dignity pretty much automatically. Unfortunately, women have to overcome some obstacles. But you have to do that hard work, for your own sanity. You can’t sit around wishing that he’s going to care enough to put it down. Get your own hobbies, and if they correspond to his, good, and if they don’t, good. (Ideally, I go for a mix of my own and shared, because again, I do think you have to have some stuff to do together besides sex. But that doesn’t mean, “I learn to enjoy some of his hobbies.” Most couples I know who really do have stuff they do together really do share an enthusiasm for it.) But until you have a substantial life of your own, you won’t have the perspective to see if his hobbies are indulged at a reasonable level, or if he really is hiding from you because he hates you/all women.
What’s fun about Rock Band, by the way, is that it’s so very fair. You take turns picking a song. No one has to feel dominated. It’s very cooperative and egalitarian. And people with different skill levels can play together.
That part makes my skin crawl. The helplessness and neediness it depicts…ugh! What did she do when she was single?
Let me understand here: they live in a 2-room apartment, she wants his attention, so she sits in the *other* room, screaming his name.
Now did I miss the part where she is a)trapped under the computer; b)velcroed to her chair; c)tied to train tracks? Or was she just being a lazy sack of passive-aggressive poop?
Rao’s breasts undulate.
Red Dwarfs do not have breasts to undulate.
and I think the times Rao has been personified, it’s been male. and kind of a dick, if memory serves.
That article made me and Mrs. F very happy: we were like “Wow, we really do get along.”
JoAnne, you might want to consider splitting up.
Holy shit.
Oh, there’s certainly a dynamic that men are supposed to pretend to be interested in women’s hobbies, along the “listen to her babbling and she’ll give up the pussy because she thinks you’re Mr. Caring”.
Only until you’re married and thus forced to put up with him. Once the pussy is “his” full-time, there’s no more need for him to pretend.
Okay, I need to stop typing now because I’ve had WAY too much wine tonight. This took forever to type correctly.
I would caution women who play video games to be careful of the “I’m one of the cool girls because I play video games and men like that” possible message.
It must be weird having a vagina. Because it apparently makes it so that playing a game, you know, a field of personal agency wherein you or your proxy follow rules governing action for the purpose of entertainment is somehow not entertaining.
I mean, I can understand disliking tetris or whatever, because Evopsych PROVED that men are better at spacial reasoning, and therefore smarter than women, so rotating the blocks and stuff might be unpleasant, but there are other games. How about Peggle? or Super Mario?
Err. I think Karpad either fails at sarcasm, or is a stupid troll. Either way, not worth my time.
Getting back to the healthy relationships debate, this is what I learned since I was 25:
1. To have a chance in hell for the relationship to survive, each partner needs their own friends and interests, as well as shared friends and interests.
2. If you are not capable of being single and happy, you are going to be a needy disaster in a relationship.
They should teach this stuff in junior high, heck, grade school. Women are taught that lurv is the main reason to live, and expect that all will come from that. Untrue: life is the main reason to live, and you should enjoy all of it, for your own sake. Have your own hobbies, your own friends, your own plans, like Amanda says, your own dignity. THEN you might have a chance at lurv - and don’t you dare drop your interests once you’re in a relationship.
Cassie,
Evopsych is a constant* target of ridicule on this blog. There’s nothing wrong with what karpad wrote given that understanding.
*Actually, it may be time for another go-round, now that I think about it.
Yo, Auguste, I know. Karpad may have been sarcastic, but the paragraph above the evopsych one just sounded too real for me.
What I said about having a chance in hell at successful relationships still stands, though. Being a whole, independent person is also a very good way to avoid abusive relationships: abusers can’t stand independence. If he doesn’t want you to have your own friends and activities? LEAVE. Preferably yesterday.
I can’t stress this enough: if you are not happy being single, if your life seems empty and hollow, you have a huge problem and should devote some time to figuring out how to be happy and single. Because then you will only choose relationships that make you even happier - and not stay in sucky relationships because it’s “better than being single”. It shouldn’t be, being single should be fine.
I read pretty much what Amanda read out of the article. It wasn’t so much that she could join her husband’s hobby. It’s that she really got something to do herself. That’s the important part.
She was in a rut. Hey, it happens to everybody. She thought the solution to her problems were her husband..why can’t we do something like learn dancing or cheese tasting. (The first, would be good. The second is WTF if you ask me). In the end, it was Rock Band.
But it wasn’t so much for them doing it together. It was something that she could enjoy on her own terms. And that’s what the important thing is here I think.
I read it to my wife and other than the “typical” bits, she nodded her head. She was the same way, in a bit of a rut, to make it worse she suffers from an illness that makes it hard to think sometimes, she knows what she wants to do but can’t wrap her brain around it…it’s very frustrating for her.
In any case, we play World of Warcraft together. When we started, basically we’d do quests together and she’d follow me through it. We stopped playing for a while, but a few months ago we got back into it and started new characters. We hit 70, and we started doing 5-man instances. This is something she never liked before for a variety of reasons. But this time, it just clicked. For her, it felt completely understandable and manageable, and that made it fun. So the guild we were in started to do the raids (instances with 10 and 25 people), and THOSE were completely understandable and manageable. And look! It’s not like she’s the first to die or to make mistakes that nobody else is making. In fact, she’s probably the last person to do that.
It’s been a huge confidence boost for her. Massive. And it’s spread to other parts of her life.
So that’s why we got what we did out of the article, because it’s kinda similar to our story.
What did she do when she was single?
She apparently clung so hard she had to be denied a basic right to use the bathroom before she got the message that she wasn’t wanted.
I think one reason women don’t have their own hobbies or defend them as strenuously as men is because they have to be on call for interruptions. For a lot of football widows I’ve known, the frustration was that after they did all the cooking and cleaning, they didn’t really have time for a hobby and there their husbands were, enjoying free time provided by their wifely labor. The resentment is real. The solution is pretty much never to act like a needy, clingy, undignified child, though.
Yawn. I get so tired of people who think that “saving a relationship” or “saving a marriage” is more important than dignity or good sense. There might be pros and cons if there are kids and property involved, but unless there is a truly equally brokered agreement around these particular issues, why bother? This whole thing isn’t about how a video game “saved a relationship” but about how a particular woman is a tool and the whole mess is totally one-sided.
If one partner doesn’t want to put any energy into the system or make any concessions, that relationship isn’t saved - it is slaved.
Am I supposed to have become a jazz nut because my husband is a professional jazz musician? Apparently some people believe this, given the comments about how I must love jazz and go see him play all the time and know all about it.
One of my biggest “rules” for new relationships is that if the other person has a creative job or hobby that takes up a significant amount of time and energy on their part, I have to already have a certain level of interest in that area (or at least potential interest), and I also have to like their contribution. Precisely because I know I’ll be expected to go to their gigs, put up one of their paintings in my home, hold their hand as they send off manuscripts, listen to them talk shop, hang out with their friends from that universe, etc. etc.
I do not have room in my life to fake enjoyment and enthusiasm in this area. If I don’t think you’re good at what you do, or I have zero interest in the single defining passion of your life, it’s probably best for us not to get too involved because it’s not going to work out.
The rule goes for either women or men, though it’s my relationships with guys which have forced me to implement it in the first place. Because, yes, they expect you to go be a betty, so you might as well be there because you want to.
I am completely guilty of hanging on my current Young Man as he plays videogames, because I have a higher sex drive than he does and am occasionally all PANTS OFF TIME NOW when he’s still not got the energy for anything more strenuous than Civ III. My self esteem is really, really not at stake, though. Does that help?
I went to college with the writer of that article. When I got to the site this morning and skimmed through the articles I let out a loud groan when I saw her name. Fear ran over me as I remembered the experience of her to be at school. Considering how much I love and respect this site, and specifically Amanda’s writing, I thought “Great, more people are going to be sucked into Rachel’s neediness.”
But the Pandagon never lets me down.
I am still paying back loans on classes where I was forced to do nothing but sit through her therapy. It was acting school and she was one of about 3 students that, if they had a problem or emotion, the world had to stop. They also love to envoke “controversial” terms and figures.
It took a few years, but it looks like I finally found some self-respecting people who could cut through the crap. Kudos Pandagonians.
Yeah, you’d think, huh?
Maybe I see it this way because I’m childless, but what’s the point of being with someone if you don’t share their interests and hobbies - just sex?
There’s nothing to offer another person in a relationship if there is no independence!!
My S.O. do many things together, including biking, Warcraft, reading…etc…but the stuff I like that he doesn’t (knitting) pretty much equals the stuff he likes and I don’t (programming, I mean, wtf?), so we equal out.
You know…EQUAL…?
You’d think people’d never have heard of it.
Member of the “Rollerblade Abortionists” here–long story behind our band, which I will only share with VH1’s Behind the Music people.
Call me. Seriously.
“Me and my roommate’s band name is Oedipus and the Mama’s Boys.”
That was one of several rejected band names in the movie “PCU.”
I can’t believe I know this.
If I don’t think you’re good at what you do, or I have zero interest in the single defining passion of your life, it’s probably best for us not to get too involved because it’s not going to work out.
Having been partnered for over 20 years, I can tell you that this only works in the beginning. If you are with a dynamic and creative person, chances are you and your partner will eventually develop a hobby/interest that the other doesn’t get on to. Eventually, you need to develop ways of dealing with the asymtotic hobby problem.
That doesn’t spell doom, however. My father never knit and my mother never did any woodworking. They made space for one another’s hobbies, though.
“That was one of several rejected band names in the movie “PCU.”
I can’t believe I know this.”
If it’s any consolation, I saw the band name and said “Too college-radio.”
I play more video games than my wife, which only annoys her when there’s housework to do. One shared hobby is martial arts, which is actually something we prefer not to practice together.
I don’t usually practice with her, as… well, sometimes the moves hurt no matter how gentle you are, and it whichever of us is on the receiving end is usually not pleased with this. We practice with other people and discuss techniques/philosophy with each other.
And the big shared hobby is Dungeons and Dragons. I always love people’s looks of confusion when they learn that these two busy, popular seeming people like such a geeky thing. The one that really amuses me is her actress friend down in LA who is a HUGE Star Wars geek, and I’m supposed to run a game for my wife, her actress friend, and actress friend’s producer husband when they next visit. Moral: sexy women can have geeky hobbies too.
But you know? My wife does her crafty things that I have no interest in, and I play my video games. We’re in the same room, we’ll periodically make each other food or tea, and it’s nice. Shared hobbies: good. Not shared hobbies: also good. Gives us stuff to talk about.
I guess my question is, how do you make that determination? Because I’m a little puzzled by the way people are talking here — if your partner says “hey, I’d like to spend more time together, I miss you,” is that okay or is it acting like a needy, dependent child? If you legitimately have different needs for alone time, can you compromise or is the relationship doomed? Is it okay to ask for the compromise?
Maybe it’s just me, but I’m sensing a lot of “more independent than thou” one-upmanship on this thread and I don’t think it’s very constructive. Yeah, it’s not good to let your life revolve around your partner. But some people (and some couples) like more togetherness than others. I think it’s something that should be negotiated, not left up to the partner with the more demanding hobbies right up until the moment the other partner decides to walk.
Good grief, what a piece of work that lady is.
It’s really simple: when you S.O. is wrapped up in his video game, you play WoW or read your blogs. When he’s spending two hours on SimCountry, you play on the console. And then you play D&D together.
And when you really need some attention, you walk over to him and let him know that you could really use some attention. If he loves you, he’ll turn off the damn game. (And if he really is spending too much time with it, then for pete’s sake, talk to him about it! It worked for me when we first got WoW.)
See? Problem solved.
I can tell you that this only works in the beginning. If you are with a dynamic and creative person, chances are you and your partner will eventually develop a hobby/interest that the other doesn’t get on to. Eventually, you need to develop ways of dealing with the asymtotic hobby problem.
It’s not so much for any hobby or interest, just the ones that have a really huge role in a person’s life. Obviously you can play chess (boorrringggg!) and I can watch surreal Bollywood movies (shrill and meaningless!), and that’s OK.
But if you’re in a band, have regular gigs, go on tour, put out an EP, etc — I have to like the kind of music you play and think your band is good, otherwise it’s not going to work out. Because either I’m going to feel angsty at having to give up my precious time and energy to pretend I like what you do, or we’re just never going to see each other and have nothing much to talk about.
BTW, I think asymtotic is my word of the day. Good one!
Honestly, this is one of the big reasons I think people should live together before they get married. You really don’t know what your “alone time” requirements will be until you’re actually in the same house/apartment sharing the same space.
My husband still cringes when he remembers his now-divorced parents bickering over the fact that his mother felt ignored if his father read a book while the TV was on. If the TV was on, he was supposed to concentrate on that, not read a book, even if he was doing it at the same time in the same room. She needed him to be doing the same thing she was doing if they were in the same room.
Since they were Irish Catholics who got married in the mid-1960s, their mismatch in private time needs was a disaster that resonated out to their three kids, not just a minor problem.
OK - ignoring the rest of the article, this line was really pretty funny:
“You could lock Rush Limbaugh, Phyllis Schlafly and Mullah Omar in a room together with a stack of Hustlers and 10 ounces of meth, and they couldn’t come up with anything more misogynist.”
Give credit where credit is due!
Wow, no, I don’t expect him to entertain me. I’m not sure where you got that. I’m not complaining of my own situation (other than the assumption by some people that what my husband does is my central concern in life). I have my own hobbies and interests. I’m here, aren’t I? And we do things together, too.
That’s not the point I was trying to make. It was that, when there is a conflict of what to do with the couple’s spare time in a het relationship, it’s assumed that the wife or girlfriend should do what the husband or boyfriend does, because he won’t want to do what she does, or if she isn’t interested, to go away and do something by herself rather than him have to give up some of his precious free time to THE RELATIONSHIP.
The writer was entertaining herself but was lonely. Her husband seemed to be uninterested in hanging out with her; he wanted to play his game for hours and hours without even hearing what was going on in the apartment.
Was it because they really didn’t do anything together? I don’t know. But I know that this is the situation for some couples, and that was what I was responding to.
felagund: “JoAnne, you might want to consider splitting up. ”
With whom?
Let’s try it again, with reading this time.
I’m not complaining that I don’t get enough attention from my husband. I’m not saying that my husband spends all his time playing jazz and none with me. We spend a lot of time together. I wasn’t responding out of personal identification with the writer.
And the point about people thinking I should be all into jazz while no one expects him to be interested in my job and hobbies? That’s about other people, about societal expectations, not about him. He is in fact interested in both, and I’m interested in jazz because it’s music and I love music and he’s a really good musician. But I’m not a jazz acolyte and never will be. In fact, his first marriage was to someone very involved in jazz. Didn’t work out.
I’m talking about relationships where the male half has his important untouchable interests that the female half either must participate in to see him, or can forget about ever seeing him except at meals and bedtime.
And from what I’ve read, this happens with video games.
Personally, I find the reaction to Joanne’s comments very illuminating. A lot of people here seem to be suggesting that there is no acceptable way for a woman to tell her male partner that she would like more attention from him — that she should either shut up about it or leave. This strikes me as pretty anti-woman, as are many discussions wherein individual women assert their personal purity with regard to this issue or that one.
I don’t know why this is — the discussion at Feministe did not go the same way.
I’m with you, Elinor. The anti-woman sentiments are all over this one, starting with Amanda’s description of Shukert as “nagging” in the first fecking paragraph, and heading steadily downhill from there. Good God.