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	<title>Comments on: The neckties of the apocalypse</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519162</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 10:09:19 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519162</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;The language you use: one paragraph has “Palestinian people”, the next “terrorists”, in basically the same construction and the same use. That’s conflation.&lt;/i&gt;

So pointing out that only a paranoid would assume that Dunkin' Donuts is using Rachael Ray's scarf to signal support for terrorism is &quot;conflating&quot; ... what, exactly?

I'm mocking the idea that Dunkin' Donuts is &quot;supporting terrorism&quot; (Malkin's words, not mine) by putting a black-and-white fringed scarf vaguely reminiscent of a kaffiyeh around Rachael Ray's neck in a commercial to sell their overpriced frozen drink.  I'm not quite sure where you get some kind of conflation on my part from that.

I'm sorry that Malkin and her pals automatically assume that Palestinian people = terrorists, but that's their conflation, not mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The language you use: one paragraph has “Palestinian people”, the next “terrorists”, in basically the same construction and the same use. That’s conflation.</i></p>
	<p>So pointing out that only a paranoid would assume that Dunkin&#8217; Donuts is using Rachael Ray&#8217;s scarf to signal support for terrorism is &#8220;conflating&#8221; &#8230; what, exactly?</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m mocking the idea that Dunkin&#8217; Donuts is &#8220;supporting terrorism&#8221; (Malkin&#8217;s words, not mine) by putting a black-and-white fringed scarf vaguely reminiscent of a kaffiyeh around Rachael Ray&#8217;s neck in a commercial to sell their overpriced frozen drink.  I&#8217;m not quite sure where you get some kind of conflation on my part from that.</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m sorry that Malkin and her pals automatically assume that Palestinian people = terrorists, but that&#8217;s their conflation, not mine.
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		<title>by: Cassie</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519160</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 09:51:04 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519160</guid>
					<description>The language you use: one paragraph has &quot;Palestinian people&quot;, the next &quot;terrorists&quot;, in basically the same construction and the same use. That's conflation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The language you use: one paragraph has &#8220;Palestinian people&#8221;, the next &#8220;terrorists&#8221;, in basically the same construction and the same use. That&#8217;s conflation.
</p>
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		<title>by: mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519159</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 09:38:01 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519159</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Mnemosyne, can we drop the right wing talking points and the conflation of “Palestinians=terrorists” on a fucking progressive blog already? Who cares if it’s a keffiyeh or not, YOU are helping Malkin’s point by supporting the “all arab and their fashion accessories people are out to get us”. Not cool.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Huh?  By pointing out that &lt;i&gt;she's not even wearing a keffiyeh&lt;/i&gt;, I'm somehow supporting the notion that the people who do wear keffiyehs are terrorist supporters?  How does that follow?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Mnemosyne, can we drop the right wing talking points and the conflation of “Palestinians=terrorists” on a fucking progressive blog already? Who cares if it’s a keffiyeh or not, YOU are helping Malkin’s point by supporting the “all arab and their fashion accessories people are out to get us”. Not cool.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Huh?  By pointing out that <i>she&#8217;s not even wearing a keffiyeh</i>, I&#8217;m somehow supporting the notion that the people who do wear keffiyehs are terrorist supporters?  How does that follow?
</p>
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		<title>by: Cassie</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519138</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:14:02 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519138</guid>
					<description>Mnemosyne, can we drop the right wing talking points and the conflation of &quot;Palestinians=terrorists&quot; on a fucking progressive blog already? Who cares if it's a keffiyeh or not, YOU are helping Malkin's point by supporting the &quot;all arab and their fashion accessories people are out to get us&quot;. Not cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mnemosyne, can we drop the right wing talking points and the conflation of &#8220;Palestinians=terrorists&#8221; on a fucking progressive blog already? Who cares if it&#8217;s a keffiyeh or not, YOU are helping Malkin&#8217;s point by supporting the &#8220;all arab and their fashion accessories people are out to get us&#8221;. Not cool.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519096</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:15:06 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519096</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Perhaps I’ve failed the Fashion Challenge this week on Pandagon, but my post was made in good faith, and I think the distinction you’re making is pretty subjective. Next I suppose you’ll tell me that REAL New York pizzas don’t have spinach on them, or that REAL hummus doesn’t have red pepper in it, and I’m a dumbshit for making those mistakes as well.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But that's the thing -- &quot;keffiyeh&quot; is not just another word for &quot;scarf.&quot;  It's &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a very specific item&lt;/a&gt;.  You're trying to argue that a chihuahua and a cat are the same thing because they're the same color and the same size and they both have fur, so they're the same thing, right? 

Either that, or support for the Palestinian people is so high that Burberry can get people to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod43820037&amp;amp;parentId=cat16880794&amp;amp;masterId=cat2830735&amp;amp;index=79&amp;amp;cmCat=cat000000cat2830732cat2830735cat16880794&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; pay $370 so they can show their support&lt;/a&gt;.  Or maybe, y'know, it's just a black-and-white scarf with fringe that isn't showing a message except to Michelle Malkin's paranoid brain.

When you start seeing support for terrorists in Dunkin Donuts commercials, it may be time to talk to your doctor about some anti-psychotic medication, don't you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Perhaps I’ve failed the Fashion Challenge this week on Pandagon, but my post was made in good faith, and I think the distinction you’re making is pretty subjective. Next I suppose you’ll tell me that REAL New York pizzas don’t have spinach on them, or that REAL hummus doesn’t have red pepper in it, and I’m a dumbshit for making those mistakes as well.</p></blockquote>
	<p>But that&#8217;s the thing &#8212; &#8220;keffiyeh&#8221; is not just another word for &#8220;scarf.&#8221;  It&#8217;s <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh" rel="nofollow">a very specific item</a>.  You&#8217;re trying to argue that a chihuahua and a cat are the same thing because they&#8217;re the same color and the same size and they both have fur, so they&#8217;re the same thing, right? </p>
	<p>Either that, or support for the Palestinian people is so high that Burberry can get people to <a href="http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod43820037&amp;parentId=cat16880794&amp;masterId=cat2830735&amp;index=79&amp;cmCat=cat000000cat2830732cat2830735cat16880794" rel="nofollow"> pay $370 so they can show their support</a>.  Or maybe, y&#8217;know, it&#8217;s just a black-and-white scarf with fringe that isn&#8217;t showing a message except to Michelle Malkin&#8217;s paranoid brain.</p>
	<p>When you start seeing support for terrorists in Dunkin Donuts commercials, it may be time to talk to your doctor about some anti-psychotic medication, don&#8217;t you think?
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519093</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:02:08 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519093</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Although everyone posting seems to be aficionados of the keffiyeh, I’m going to have to say that at first glance (and I have spent a significant period of time in the Middle East) the scarf does look like a Palestinian kaffiyah, and a Palestinian keffiyeh does invoke a particular political viewpoint.&lt;/i&gt;

At first glance, the man-in-the-moon logo that Procter &amp;amp; Gamble puts on all of their packaging looks like a Satanic image, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/procter.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;but it's not.&lt;/a&gt;  

If we're going to go solely by what something looks like at first glance and not what it actually IS, we're in really big trouble.  If you take a second glance, you can see that the pattern on it is clearly not that of a kaffiyeh.  Look at the pattern just above the drink.  That's a flower.  If you can show me a picture from the Middle East of a kaffiyeh with a flower, you would have a point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Although everyone posting seems to be aficionados of the keffiyeh, I’m going to have to say that at first glance (and I have spent a significant period of time in the Middle East) the scarf does look like a Palestinian kaffiyah, and a Palestinian keffiyeh does invoke a particular political viewpoint.</i></p>
	<p>At first glance, the man-in-the-moon logo that Procter &amp; Gamble puts on all of their packaging looks like a Satanic image, <a href="http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/procter.asp" rel="nofollow">but it&#8217;s not.</a>  </p>
	<p>If we&#8217;re going to go solely by what something looks like at first glance and not what it actually IS, we&#8217;re in really big trouble.  If you take a second glance, you can see that the pattern on it is clearly not that of a kaffiyeh.  Look at the pattern just above the drink.  That&#8217;s a flower.  If you can show me a picture from the Middle East of a kaffiyeh with a flower, you would have a point.
</p>
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		<title>by: Midtown42</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519087</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 18:36:29 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519087</guid>
					<description>Is it worth mentioning to that clueless commenter on Malkin's thread that &quot;the fat guy&quot; died several years ago, or would digging him up and propping him up like Weekend at Bernie's be preferable to him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is it worth mentioning to that clueless commenter on Malkin&#8217;s thread that &#8220;the fat guy&#8221; died several years ago, or would digging him up and propping him up like Weekend at Bernie&#8217;s be preferable to him?
</p>
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		<title>by: esgeness</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519059</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 16:56:41 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-519059</guid>
					<description>Although everyone posting seems to be aficionados of the keffiyeh, I'm going to have to say that at first glance (and I have spent a significant period of time in the Middle East) the scarf does look like a Palestinian kaffiyah, and a Palestinian keffiyeh does invoke a particular political viewpoint. I think the real issue here is that politics shouldn't have a place in a commercial for donuts. Thinking that people wouldn't respond to the scarf is just plain dumb. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Although everyone posting seems to be aficionados of the keffiyeh, I&#8217;m going to have to say that at first glance (and I have spent a significant period of time in the Middle East) the scarf does look like a Palestinian kaffiyah, and a Palestinian keffiyeh does invoke a particular political viewpoint. I think the real issue here is that politics shouldn&#8217;t have a place in a commercial for donuts. Thinking that people wouldn&#8217;t respond to the scarf is just plain dumb.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ignatius</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-518986</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 12:20:33 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-518986</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Am I the only one that noticed the frozen coffee drink in her hand? Could the scarf have been chosen by wardrobe because it humorously indicates that the drink is soooo cooling that you need to wear a scarf even in summer? &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Exactly what I was going to say. She's drinking a cold drink, so they put a scarf on her. &quot;Oooh, so chilly, especially in short sleeves!&quot; Needing a scarf, they chose one that is currently fashionable. That's the end of the thinking that went into that choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Am I the only one that noticed the frozen coffee drink in her hand? Could the scarf have been chosen by wardrobe because it humorously indicates that the drink is soooo cooling that you need to wear a scarf even in summer? </p></blockquote>
	<p>Exactly what I was going to say. She&#8217;s drinking a cold drink, so they put a scarf on her. &#8220;Oooh, so chilly, especially in short sleeves!&#8221; Needing a scarf, they chose one that is currently fashionable. That&#8217;s the end of the thinking that went into that choice.
</p>
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		<title>by: The Opoponax</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-518974</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 11:57:20 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/26/7274/#comment-518974</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I think the distinction you’re making is pretty subjective&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, it's not.  Keffiyeh don't have flowers or paisley patterns on them.  They just don't.  I'm not sure &quot;dumbshit&quot; was necessarily called for, but this is not subjective, like the difference between a &quot;scarf&quot; and a &quot;wrap&quot; would be.  

Words have meanings.  They just do.  You can't take a specific term, divorce it from its actual meaning, then get pissed off about the perceived social &quot;message&quot; sent.  You can't have it both ways.  Either Rachel Ray is wearing an actual keffiyeh, with all the cultural associations that may or may not carry, or she is not wearing a keffiyeh and thus cannot possibly mean to convey whatever nefarious message you have ascribed to her clothing.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I think the distinction you’re making is pretty subjective</i></p>
	<p>Actually, it&#8217;s not.  Keffiyeh don&#8217;t have flowers or paisley patterns on them.  They just don&#8217;t.  I&#8217;m not sure &#8220;dumbshit&#8221; was necessarily called for, but this is not subjective, like the difference between a &#8220;scarf&#8221; and a &#8220;wrap&#8221; would be.  </p>
	<p>Words have meanings.  They just do.  You can&#8217;t take a specific term, divorce it from its actual meaning, then get pissed off about the perceived social &#8220;message&#8221; sent.  You can&#8217;t have it both ways.  Either Rachel Ray is wearing an actual keffiyeh, with all the cultural associations that may or may not carry, or she is not wearing a keffiyeh and thus cannot possibly mean to convey whatever nefarious message you have ascribed to her clothing.
</p>
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