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	<title>Comments on: Monkey see, monkey do</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518876</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 23:35:22 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518876</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Like Kyso says, clearly she had really deep problems that caused her to sleep around looking for meaning and then to marry young and convert to Mormonism in a desperate grab for meaning. This is a story about a broken soul without direction being taken advantage of by a sexist pig under the guise of religion. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;Sleeping around&quot; at age 14 isn't always really deep problems and a broken soul.  Sometimes it's just figuring out the sex and attractiveness thing.

Note that they said 

&lt;blockquote&gt;She soon graduated to ordering cosmopolitans at bars she snuck into and cheating on her boyfriend with up to seven other guys — in one week.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;Cheating on&quot;?  Or just having sex with seven men in one week, without her bf's &quot;consent&quot;?

The whole &quot;women's sexuality is super-meaningful and tied up with LUUURRRRVVEEE and can't be trifled with and they need one steady partner&quot; is a meme that feeds into the virginity at marriage craze.  Women are supposed to have sex only with really emotionally important men, unless they're broken-ass sluts, right?  Wrong.

Someone probably &quot;explained&quot; to her that she was sleeping around because she had problems.   Not because she was curious and sexual, like teen guys.  And she bought it.  

In short, a sexist pig claimed her sexuality for her.  Please don't do the same.

BTW, many months ago, I asked my husband which of the four SATC women I was most like, and he said, without hesitation, &quot;Samantha.&quot;  Without rancor or weirdness or judgment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Like Kyso says, clearly she had really deep problems that caused her to sleep around looking for meaning and then to marry young and convert to Mormonism in a desperate grab for meaning. This is a story about a broken soul without direction being taken advantage of by a sexist pig under the guise of religion. </p></blockquote>
	<p>&#8220;Sleeping around&#8221; at age 14 isn&#8217;t always really deep problems and a broken soul.  Sometimes it&#8217;s just figuring out the sex and attractiveness thing.</p>
	<p>Note that they said </p>
	<blockquote><p>She soon graduated to ordering cosmopolitans at bars she snuck into and cheating on her boyfriend with up to seven other guys — in one week.</p></blockquote>
	<p>&#8220;Cheating on&#8221;?  Or just having sex with seven men in one week, without her bf&#8217;s &#8220;consent&#8221;?</p>
	<p>The whole &#8220;women&#8217;s sexuality is super-meaningful and tied up with LUUURRRRVVEEE and can&#8217;t be trifled with and they need one steady partner&#8221; is a meme that feeds into the virginity at marriage craze.  Women are supposed to have sex only with really emotionally important men, unless they&#8217;re broken-ass sluts, right?  Wrong.</p>
	<p>Someone probably &#8220;explained&#8221; to her that she was sleeping around because she had problems.   Not because she was curious and sexual, like teen guys.  And she bought it.  </p>
	<p>In short, a sexist pig claimed her sexuality for her.  Please don&#8217;t do the same.</p>
	<p>BTW, many months ago, I asked my husband which of the four SATC women I was most like, and he said, without hesitation, &#8220;Samantha.&#8221;  Without rancor or weirdness or judgment.
</p>
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		<title>by: The Opoponax</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518107</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 11:36:33 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518107</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;but you do need to have that education and those connections and Daddy’s friends to get the jobs that Samantha and Carrie have.&lt;/i&gt;

Not really...  I know people in both of their fields who certainly don't.

Though my point was more that simply don't have to have an Ivy league education and a boatload of family connections to have an independent life in a big city with a cool job.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>but you do need to have that education and those connections and Daddy’s friends to get the jobs that Samantha and Carrie have.</i></p>
	<p>Not really&#8230;  I know people in both of their fields who certainly don&#8217;t.</p>
	<p>Though my point was more that simply don&#8217;t have to have an Ivy league education and a boatload of family connections to have an independent life in a big city with a cool job.
</p>
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518047</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 08:21:19 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518047</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Aside from Miranda the corporate lawyer, I don’t think you have to have an Ivy League education to do any of the things the women on SATC do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Aaaah, but you do need to have that education and those connections and Daddy's friends to &lt;i&gt;get the jobs&lt;/i&gt; that Samantha and Carrie have.

Repeat after me: &quot;Legacy admissions rule the world.&quot;  Repeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Aside from Miranda the corporate lawyer, I don’t think you have to have an Ivy League education to do any of the things the women on SATC do.</blockquote>
Aaaah, but you do need to have that education and those connections and Daddy&#8217;s friends to <i>get the jobs</i> that Samantha and Carrie have.</p>
	<p>Repeat after me: &#8220;Legacy admissions rule the world.&#8221;  Repeat.
</p>
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		<title>by: Elinor</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518037</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 07:50:32 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518037</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;WTF is with all that voice-over? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ugh, I know, and the freaking stupid puns and name-dropping that go along with it.  I found Carrie so abominably whiny that I would cringe when the inevitable column question showed up, particularly in the later seasons.  And then the show would frequently wrap up with something like &quot;But sometimes in New York, you've got to carry an umbrella when it's raining out.&quot; 

It was better (and, I think, raunchier) in the earlier seasons.  By the time Charlotte married her first husband it was going downhill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>WTF is with all that voice-over? </p></blockquote>
	<p>Ugh, I know, and the freaking stupid puns and name-dropping that go along with it.  I found Carrie so abominably whiny that I would cringe when the inevitable column question showed up, particularly in the later seasons.  And then the show would frequently wrap up with something like &#8220;But sometimes in New York, you&#8217;ve got to carry an umbrella when it&#8217;s raining out.&#8221; </p>
	<p>It was better (and, I think, raunchier) in the earlier seasons.  By the time Charlotte married her first husband it was going downhill.
</p>
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		<title>by: The Amazing Kim</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518020</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 02:51:18 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-518020</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;after a certain age women have to choose between making their ass look good or their face. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Meh. Neither have done much for me, so I'm working on making lots of money instead. I'm looking forward to a time when this dichotomy is as much a problem to future women as it is for men now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>after a certain age women have to choose between making their ass look good or their face. </p></blockquote>
	<p>Meh. Neither have done much for me, so I&#8217;m working on making lots of money instead. I&#8217;m looking forward to a time when this dichotomy is as much a problem to future women as it is for men now.
</p>
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		<title>by: the opoponax</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517942</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:39:37 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517942</guid>
					<description>Aside from Miranda the corporate lawyer, I don't think you have to have an Ivy League education to do any of the things the women on SATC do.  

I hate the idea that the &quot;privilege&quot; of being an independent woman is granted only to the very wealthy.  Because it's just not true.  Granted I don't own any Jimmy Choos, am lucky to eat in one fancy restaurant or splurge on one spa treatment per year (if even), live in Brooklyn &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; have a roommate, and generally get to go to fancy parties and such as someone's 'plus one' rather than because I'm some kind of VIP.  But I have a every bit as much fun as these fictional women are depicted having (without any pressure to settle down), and I hold a mere B.A. from an obscure public school.  

It really bugs me the way that this show conflates class, money, and consumerism with 'independence' for women.  Wait, didn't I just say I wasn't going to delve deeper into Sex and the City?


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Aside from Miranda the corporate lawyer, I don&#8217;t think you have to have an Ivy League education to do any of the things the women on SATC do.  </p>
	<p>I hate the idea that the &#8220;privilege&#8221; of being an independent woman is granted only to the very wealthy.  Because it&#8217;s just not true.  Granted I don&#8217;t own any Jimmy Choos, am lucky to eat in one fancy restaurant or splurge on one spa treatment per year (if even), live in Brooklyn <i>and</i> have a roommate, and generally get to go to fancy parties and such as someone&#8217;s &#8216;plus one&#8217; rather than because I&#8217;m some kind of VIP.  But I have a every bit as much fun as these fictional women are depicted having (without any pressure to settle down), and I hold a mere B.A. from an obscure public school.  </p>
	<p>It really bugs me the way that this show conflates class, money, and consumerism with &#8216;independence&#8217; for women.  Wait, didn&#8217;t I just say I wasn&#8217;t going to delve deeper into Sex and the City?
</p>
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		<title>by: Pseudo-Adrienne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517940</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:26:07 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517940</guid>
					<description>I remember during my high school days that watching &lt;i&gt;Sex and the City&lt;/i&gt; was a *big* thing among the &quot;popular&quot; and very preppy female students. Especially the ones in my A.P. classes, who bragged about being accepted into either one of the &lt;i&gt;Seven Sisters&lt;/i&gt; colleges or an Ivy League university. As I look back now, I'm actually proud of the fact that many of them said, &lt;i&gt;&quot;God! I can't wait to get a career like those women and just have loads of fun with my single friends in a big city, and have lots of great sex!&quot;&lt;/i&gt; as they gossiped about the show. And I also saw this attitude expressed among a lot of the young women in my college dorm(s). So, yeah...I think it inspired a lot of young women in my generation to think that it's okay to strive for life-goals, &lt;b&gt;other&lt;/b&gt; than wifedom, mommyhood-in-the-suburbs, financial dependency on a man, and domesticity. Which is definitely why I understand wingnuts have their collective tighty-whities and panies in a bunch....we &lt;i&gt;wimminfolk&lt;/i&gt; are sculpting our own destinies and striving for goals that don't involve a &lt;i&gt;Stepford&lt;/i&gt; lifestyle. &lt;i&gt;Witchcraft!&lt;/i&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I remember during my high school days that watching <i>Sex and the City</i> was a *big* thing among the &#8220;popular&#8221; and very preppy female students. Especially the ones in my A.P. classes, who bragged about being accepted into either one of the <i>Seven Sisters</i> colleges or an Ivy League university. As I look back now, I&#8217;m actually proud of the fact that many of them said, <i>&#8220;God! I can&#8217;t wait to get a career like those women and just have loads of fun with my single friends in a big city, and have lots of great sex!&#8221;</i> as they gossiped about the show. And I also saw this attitude expressed among a lot of the young women in my college dorm(s). So, yeah&#8230;I think it inspired a lot of young women in my generation to think that it&#8217;s okay to strive for life-goals, <b>other</b> than wifedom, mommyhood-in-the-suburbs, financial dependency on a man, and domesticity. Which is definitely why I understand wingnuts have their collective tighty-whities and panies in a bunch&#8230;.we <i>wimminfolk</i> are sculpting our own destinies and striving for goals that don&#8217;t involve a <i>Stepford</i> lifestyle. <i>Witchcraft!</i>
</p>
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		<title>by: the opoponax</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517937</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:18:16 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517937</guid>
					<description>You want to know the only thing that really, really bugs me about SATC?  It's not about feminism, not about working class values (they spend so much on shoes!), not about the cliches it inspired.  

WTF is with all that voice-over?  I mean I get it, each episode centers around the column Carrie happens to be working on, and the voice-over weaves the various strains of the narrative together and shows how and why they are relevant to the central theme.  But:

A) well made TV should not need a crutch like voice-over to accomplish any of that (and in all other respects, SATC is well made TV), and 

B) it is just. so. contrived.  Every time the voice over starts in towards the end of an episode, I just think OK, And Here's The Moral Of This Week's Story.  Which is dumb.  I'm not 6.  I don't need all entertainment to be structured like the Brady Bunch.  

OK, that is all you're going to get from me on deeper analyses of Sex and the City.  Just like the networks have their versions edited to take out the sex, nudity, and swearing, I want to have my own version edited to take out the narrative abomination that is voice over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You want to know the only thing that really, really bugs me about SATC?  It&#8217;s not about feminism, not about working class values (they spend so much on shoes!), not about the cliches it inspired.  </p>
	<p>WTF is with all that voice-over?  I mean I get it, each episode centers around the column Carrie happens to be working on, and the voice-over weaves the various strains of the narrative together and shows how and why they are relevant to the central theme.  But:</p>
	<p>A) well made TV should not need a crutch like voice-over to accomplish any of that (and in all other respects, SATC is well made TV), and </p>
	<p>B) it is just. so. contrived.  Every time the voice over starts in towards the end of an episode, I just think OK, And Here&#8217;s The Moral Of This Week&#8217;s Story.  Which is dumb.  I&#8217;m not 6.  I don&#8217;t need all entertainment to be structured like the Brady Bunch.  </p>
	<p>OK, that is all you&#8217;re going to get from me on deeper analyses of Sex and the City.  Just like the networks have their versions edited to take out the sex, nudity, and swearing, I want to have my own version edited to take out the narrative abomination that is voice over.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ms Kate</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517931</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:33:39 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517931</guid>
					<description>I've seen episodes and I understand why it was a popular show and a highly regarded show, too.

Couldn't ever get into it myself, though.  I find SJP's character to be extremely annoying, and I just can't relate to all this urban put on in the first place.

Then again, what can you expect from someone planning a compass rose tattoo composed of kayaks and a chainring?  Who caught shit from her new yawker fellow travelers for navigating by the sun in lower Manhattan?

Not my speed, but cool enough for those who got onto it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve seen episodes and I understand why it was a popular show and a highly regarded show, too.</p>
	<p>Couldn&#8217;t ever get into it myself, though.  I find SJP&#8217;s character to be extremely annoying, and I just can&#8217;t relate to all this urban put on in the first place.</p>
	<p>Then again, what can you expect from someone planning a compass rose tattoo composed of kayaks and a chainring?  Who caught shit from her new yawker fellow travelers for navigating by the sun in lower Manhattan?</p>
	<p>Not my speed, but cool enough for those who got onto it.
</p>
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		<title>by: maatnofret</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517925</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:08:45 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/22/7252/#comment-517925</guid>
					<description>I could never relate to the show. Those characters spend more on a pair of shoes than I do on rent. 

Having said that, I can see why it's mindless fun for a lot of people. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I could never relate to the show. Those characters spend more on a pair of shoes than I do on rent. </p>
	<p>Having said that, I can see why it&#8217;s mindless fun for a lot of people.
</p>
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