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	<title>Comments on: The Catholic Church&#8217;s ex-gay &#8216;cure&#8217; in Poland</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: dr ngo</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517705</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:51:34 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517705</guid>
					<description>You do realize, don't you, that since this is Europe, the &quot;football&quot; referred to is soccer, not the Manly American Game (AKA &quot;gridiron&quot;)?

No wonder the program doesn't work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You do realize, don&#8217;t you, that since this is Europe, the &#8220;football&#8221; referred to is soccer, not the Manly American Game (AKA &#8220;gridiron&#8221;)?</p>
	<p>No wonder the program doesn&#8217;t work.
</p>
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		<title>by: queerunity</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517403</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 05:35:04 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517403</guid>
					<description>but im a cheerleader is a parody but very much based on real right-wing wackyness
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>but im a cheerleader is a parody but very much based on real right-wing wackyness<br />
<a href="http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow"><a href='http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com' rel='nofollow'>http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com</a></a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517348</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 21:14:02 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517348</guid>
					<description>Another dynamic is that in Poland and other former Communist countries, embracing the values of the Catholic Church was a form of rebellion. That's why Poland was able to cram through a stringent anti-abortion law soon after Communism fell---it was a reaction to being under the Communist boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another dynamic is that in Poland and other former Communist countries, embracing the values of the Catholic Church was a form of rebellion. That&#8217;s why Poland was able to cram through a stringent anti-abortion law soon after Communism fell&#8212;it was a reaction to being under the Communist boot.
</p>
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		<title>by: Skwee</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517316</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 19:02:56 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517316</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I can’t watch the video here at work, so maybe it would be clearer if I could, but I really don’t get the “candy” quote. Is same-sex attraction/gay sex supposed to be the candy?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The woman in the video seems to be using it as a metaphor for the program. She means a person can trade in his or her homosexuality (the candy) for heterosexuality (chocolate).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>I can’t watch the video here at work, so maybe it would be clearer if I could, but I really don’t get the “candy” quote. Is same-sex attraction/gay sex supposed to be the candy?</p></blockquote>
	<p>The woman in the video seems to be using it as a metaphor for the program. She means a person can trade in his or her homosexuality (the candy) for heterosexuality (chocolate).
</p>
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		<title>by: Ben D.</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517296</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 18:04:57 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517296</guid>
					<description>Phoenician, that was hilarious.

The Michael Jackson doll is especially creepy given what we know about his pedophilia now.

Much like &lt;a&gt;this game&lt;/a&gt; I did in fact play as a child. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Phoenician, that was hilarious.</p>
	<p>The Michael Jackson doll is especially creepy given what we know about his pedophilia now.</p>
	<p>Much like <a>this game</a> I did in fact play as a child.
</p>
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		<title>by: Phoenician in a time of Romans</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517282</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 17:12:18 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517282</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;But….I like to cook, and never played football in my life, and I’m straight as an arrow. WTF?&lt;/i&gt;

Obviously, you avoided the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.liquidgeneration.com/Media/Videos/LG_Originals/Top_10_Lists/10_Toys_That_Made_You_Gay/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wrong toys&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>But….I like to cook, and never played football in my life, and I’m straight as an arrow. WTF?</i></p>
	<p>Obviously, you avoided the <a href="http://www.liquidgeneration.com/Media/Videos/LG_Originals/Top_10_Lists/10_Toys_That_Made_You_Gay/" rel="nofollow">wrong toys</a>.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mark Foxwell</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517267</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 16:24:51 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517267</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Ben D.
May 20, 2008 at 2:36 pm 

Togolosh, thats a good point. I didn’t know Commies were homophobic, one thinks they would be progressive in that area if for nothing else than to piss off the Church. I guess cultural habits die hard. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As someone who finds Marxist economic, political, and social theory lucid and much superior to mainstream academic alternatives, I've always been distressed at the abysmal track record of actual revolutionary Marxist regimes in matters of sexuality and gender in general.

The hell of it is, the early Bolshevik period in the USSR did--foster is too strong a word, but at least tolerate--some gender radicalism. Unforetunately I'm not aware of any such regimes anywhere that were ever even tolerant of gayness, let alone queer-positive.

In Russia and Cuba I believe gayness was associated, officially, with bourgeois degeneracy.

OTOH one of the key founders of the homosexual rights advocacy group in the USA, the Mattachine Society, was a member of the CP-USA. He felt gay liberation followed logically from revolutionary Marxism, and I of course agree.

Unfortunately neither the CP-USA (and this was after Stalin's death, in the late 1950s) nor the non-Communist Matchines agreed. He was forced out of both organizations.

Policy towards GLBT people remains one of the wost features of Castro's Cuba today.

And I gather that Chavez in Venezuela is no friend of queer folk either, alas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Ben D.<br />
May 20, 2008 at 2:36 pm </p>
	<p>Togolosh, thats a good point. I didn’t know Commies were homophobic, one thinks they would be progressive in that area if for nothing else than to piss off the Church. I guess cultural habits die hard.
</p></blockquote>
	<p>As someone who finds Marxist economic, political, and social theory lucid and much superior to mainstream academic alternatives, I&#8217;ve always been distressed at the abysmal track record of actual revolutionary Marxist regimes in matters of sexuality and gender in general.</p>
	<p>The hell of it is, the early Bolshevik period in the USSR did&#8211;foster is too strong a word, but at least tolerate&#8211;some gender radicalism. Unforetunately I&#8217;m not aware of any such regimes anywhere that were ever even tolerant of gayness, let alone queer-positive.</p>
	<p>In Russia and Cuba I believe gayness was associated, officially, with bourgeois degeneracy.</p>
	<p>OTOH one of the key founders of the homosexual rights advocacy group in the USA, the Mattachine Society, was a member of the CP-USA. He felt gay liberation followed logically from revolutionary Marxism, and I of course agree.</p>
	<p>Unfortunately neither the CP-USA (and this was after Stalin&#8217;s death, in the late 1950s) nor the non-Communist Matchines agreed. He was forced out of both organizations.</p>
	<p>Policy towards GLBT people remains one of the wost features of Castro&#8217;s Cuba today.</p>
	<p>And I gather that Chavez in Venezuela is no friend of queer folk either, alas.
</p>
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		<title>by: calliopejane</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517240</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 15:18:46 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517240</guid>
					<description>I can't watch the video here at work, so maybe it would be clearer if I could, but I really don't get the &quot;candy&quot; quote.  Is same-sex attraction/gay sex supposed to be the candy? So then it's okay to do it &quot;later&quot;? How much later does one have to wait?  Is the &quot;trading for chocolate&quot; thing supposed to mean going for het sex instead? (I didn't think heterosexuals were the ones labeled with epithets involving &quot;fudge&quot; but whatever). And isn't chocolate a TYPE of candy? So how would one trade candy for chocolate? 

I'm so confused. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I can&#8217;t watch the video here at work, so maybe it would be clearer if I could, but I really don&#8217;t get the &#8220;candy&#8221; quote.  Is same-sex attraction/gay sex supposed to be the candy? So then it&#8217;s okay to do it &#8220;later&#8221;? How much later does one have to wait?  Is the &#8220;trading for chocolate&#8221; thing supposed to mean going for het sex instead? (I didn&#8217;t think heterosexuals were the ones labeled with epithets involving &#8220;fudge&#8221; but whatever). And isn&#8217;t chocolate a TYPE of candy? So how would one trade candy for chocolate? </p>
	<p>I&#8217;m so confused.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ben D.</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517224</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 14:36:52 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517224</guid>
					<description>Togolosh, thats a good point. I didn't know Commies were homophobic, one thinks they would be progressive in that area if for nothing else than to piss off the Church. I guess cultural habits die hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Togolosh, thats a good point. I didn&#8217;t know Commies were homophobic, one thinks they would be progressive in that area if for nothing else than to piss off the Church. I guess cultural habits die hard.
</p>
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		<title>by: togolosh</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517222</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 14:32:17 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/20/the-catholic-churchs-ex-gay-cure-in-poland/#comment-517222</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;So much for the meme that Europe is more progressive than the United States.&lt;/i&gt;

Bear in mind that the part of Europe that was behind the iron curtain missed out on all the big social reforms of the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  The  Communists were quite bigoted towards homosexuals in the USSR, and I imagine Poland was no different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>So much for the meme that Europe is more progressive than the United States.</i></p>
	<p>Bear in mind that the part of Europe that was behind the iron curtain missed out on all the big social reforms of the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  The  Communists were quite bigoted towards homosexuals in the USSR, and I imagine Poland was no different.
</p>
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