Posted by Auguste May 16, 2008 in Conservatives Sure Are Funny
It is, after all, Chris Matthews. But to steal Atrios’ phrase, more of this, please*:
* And less of all the other shit, Chris.
50 Responses to “I shouldn’t enjoy this as much as I do”
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I know it is CM, but I saw this yesterday and my respect for him increased several orders of magnitude. Bravo for once.
There are occasions where Tweety does right. This is one of them.
That was awesome. Nothing like actually calling out someone who has no idea what they’re actually talking about. “more of this, please” seconded, and I hope that we see more of it in the coming months before the general election.
But it’s all about the noise and less about the substance.
Lies travel around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes…
I’ll have to keep this in mind when I encounter wingnutty relatives this summer. “Yes, but what did Chamberlain do that made him an appeaser? There was a very specific thing that he did that made people call him that.”
But it’s all about the noise and less about the substance.
Lies travel around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes…
Not only did Kevin have no clue what “appeasement” means or what Chamberlain did, but he also has very poor manners. Shouting when other people are talking is…just rude.
Poor Kevin. It must be tough to go through life so stupid. Is Kevin an example of the quality of the education provided by the University of Oklahoma? They should be very embarrassed today.
I should add that Chamberlain’s selling out of Czechoslovakia isn’t as bad as it is made out to be. England was woefully unprepared for war in 1938. Without the Munich agreement, the battle of Britain could have occurred in 1939 instead of 1940 which would have been disastrous for Britain.
ugh. that was painful to watch. he’s definitely college educated. That’s exactly what an essay question bullshit answer reads like.
including the shouting.
Fucking. Hilarious. This video pretty much captures the tone and state of the domestic / foreign political process in the U.S.
Talk bullshit loud enough and 1/2 the people start to believe it.
Oh please. This guy couldn’t be bothered to Google “Neville Chamberlain” and read for 10 minutes? I guess just repeating talking points at the top of your voice is all that the job requires.
For all my youth, KRLA was an AM oldies station — when did it turn into a haven for mouth-breathers like this guy?
the last three days have just given me the warm fuzzies. when dems attack!
The question of course remains: If the attack had been on Hillary would he have taken quite the same attitude?
I saw this yesterday too, and I was shocked by it. This time I was laughing my ass off. Yeesh, Kevin James is like a high school freshman who’s trying to do a discussion without doing the reading.
Auguste, I think that depends on the situation. If Hillary and Obama’s positions were reversed and Hillary was going to be the nominee, I absolutely think we would have taken the same or similar attitude. If the situation was the same as it is now, however, I think it wouldn’t have registered nearly as much.
The reason why this is so exciting is that many of us are afraid that the divisive primary is going to be a weakness going forward. We worry that the party will be deeply split and the hurt feelings from the losing camp are going to drag down the winner. Here we saw a strong counter-example: the party rallied around Obama and went on the offensive. We’ve been hoping for years that the democrats would use this kind of strategy more and it’s even more exciting now that it’s coming at a time when we are worried about party unity.
I wish MSNBC would do this to all the Republican talking heads. If they exposed the Regency U. lack of education better, the country would be better off today.
I’d love it if Republicans would refuse to go on MSNBC b/c they were afraid of being exposed as idiots.
From the get-go, this Kevin guy was all about looks and talking points. I *LOVED* what Tweety did here. THAT was journalism. Follow up questions and a refusal to be sidetracked.
“What did Neville Chamberlain do?”
Five minutes of Kevin spinning for all he’s worth trying to throw any possible talking point in the air to deflect the question he couldn’t answer. And I don’t think he understands that the fact that he couldn’t answer undermined all of his talking points.
Chamberlain didn’t just talk to Hitler. Chamberlain acted. He gave half of Czechoslovakia to Germany as a bribe to leave England alone. Chamberlain thought it was “peace with honour” and “peace in our time”, but it was really just knuckling under. His mistake was sacrificing principles to save his country’s neck. And it didn’t work.
I didn’t know Tweety had it in him. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen real journalism. Thanks for sharing!
Oh, and I love Kevin’s final answer “He was an appeaser!”
It would have been perfect if he’d just cromulented it up a bit with “appeaserator” or “appeasererer”.
Not “we.” “He.” Matthews.
I love it. “Don’t talk about appeasement if you don’t know what it is.” Beautiful. It’s so wonderful to see someone in even this much of the MSM who believes in some sort of objective reality.
I want to hear this ALL THE TIME: don’t talk about X if you don’t know what it is. Check it out, this is a perfect fill in the blank sentence. Another example: “Don’t talk about evolution if you don’t know what it is.”
Excellent.
Of course, one has to think of this as well:
“You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.”
I watched it again James “38-39? What year do you want?”
B/c Chamberlain did so many things in 38 and 39. There’s not one big thing that earned him a reputation as an appeaserator.
And then “made it easier for Hitler to advance in the ways he advanced.” Kevin doesn’t know what Hitler did either!
Oh, what a glorious snippet.
Along with the bullshitting-student associations, the fiasco was also reminiscent of Bart Simpson doing his oral report on _Treasure Island_ having only read the cover. “What was the name of the pirate in _Treasure Island_?” becomes “What did Neville Chamberlain do?” And he had that running monologue inside his head. But James wasn’t confident enough to take a wild guess.
God, that was just…pitiful.
As someone who has a piece of sheepskin that says I’m a historian, this ignorance was just astounding. I mean, was he asleep in 101?
And is it really true Bush’s Press Secretary didn’t know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was?
Tweety gets it right sometimes. Like when he shut down Michelle Malkin in 2004, and the above clip.
He also called out Pat Buchanan on his bigoted sh*t a day before this, FWIW.
Auguste — Ohh, I thought you were referring our reaction in general to the president’s comments and the following defense of Obama.
I have no real idea if Matthews would have reacted the same way if the criticism were of Hillary, but given his track record I suspect not!
Is Kevin an example of the quality of the education provided by the University of Oklahoma? They should be very embarrassed today.
Tom, that’s thoroughly unnecessary. As a proud OU faculty member, I can assure you that James’s lack of knowledge cannot be blamed on the University of Oklahoma. We are especially–and justifiably–proud of our excellent History Department, for whatever that’s worth.
Not to pick on Tom’s comment, but I’m tired of the kneejerk elitism that sees Kevin James as somehow typical of OU or former FEMA director Michael “Heckuva Job” Brown as typical of Oklahoma City University, a very solid (and quite liberal) Methodist school up in OKC.
Somehow we never say that Alberto Gonzalez, John Yoo or George W. Bush personifies the quality of a Harvard or Yale education.
Like any major university, OU has stronger and weaker programs, better and worse courses, active scholars and deadwood, and excellent students and students barely getting by. Although we’ve done a lot to improve our profile, funding, faculty, and educational quality over the last two decades, Oklahoma is a fairly young state without a strong historic commitment to higher education. Many of our students are first generation college graduates.
At any rate, our most embarrassing graduates are no more typical of OU than the most embarrassing graduates of any institution. But too many people are willing to stereotype the educational institutions of states like Oklahoma.
A very important thing that to remembers is that, in many ways, the American politician most like Chamberlain is George Bush:
* an ignorance of facts combined with a certainty of being right;
* a visceral dislike of being told facts which are not in accord with the plans or actions already taken;
* a devotion to being “common sense” or “realistic” or “bold” whilst rejecting the input of data which may cause one to have to change a course that one does not deviate from;
* a narrow, uneducated of the world dangerously allied to a self-certainty so grounded in faith and lack of introspection that it is very like religion;
* the development of a series of policies which rest on the flawed assumption that your opponents think just like you do;
* the angry “freezing out” and political removal of capable colleagues and subordinates for insistence on pointing out “unhelpful” facts or for not wanting to stick to policies which have demonstrably failed;
* stubbornness raised to jaw-dropping levels.
As people go after Obama for saying that Iraq has failed people should remember that Chamberlain and the majority of the Tory party did NOT forgive Churchill for being right. Even after Churchill had been proved convincingly right and the Tory party and the Establishment (with some honourable exceptions like Duff Cooper and, later, Anthony Eden) horrifically wrong they still turned to Lord Halifax first, a funereal toff whose most salient characteristic was that he agreed with everything that Chamberlain had done and still thought that the failed policies might yet work. (John McCain, anyone?)
Ben–I would like to make Bush a convincing argument against legacy admits at Ivies! I think your point is correct and I suspect Yale/Harvard grad Bush doesn’t care if his comparison is historically accurate–he’s just using general historical ignorance (ie, most people associate Chamberlain and appeasement and don’t know what it means) to score cheap political points. In other words, it is a really lame analogy made to connect Obama to Nazis while Bush is in Israel. That is the depth of the administration’s thinking and that’s quite telling.
OMG, it’s like bad sports casting. What a fuckwit.
The problem, folks, is that we here are analyzing this exchange from a position that respects knowledge and the expertise required to use it. The fact that little Mr. Kevin doesn’t know what he’s talking about actually means something to us, and significantly impacts the way we deal with him intellectually.
The hard-line 35%-ers, on the other hand, couldn’t give two shits in a barrel that this guy doesn’t have the first fucking clue what he’s talking about, because even in the midst of his glaring, shameless ignorance, he’s still telling them exactly what they want to hear. Everything else is completely immaterial to them. In that terror-addled authoritarian worldview, saying “I don’t know” when faced with questions of fact is just another way of saying “I’m right because somebody more powerful than you or me said so,” and they lap that shit up like spilled beer. And the fact that he’s shouting at the top of his lungs and speaking over the other two players just makes it that much more attractive, because you can’t pump your fists in a delirious paroxysm of mindless yay-America-ism when your talking heads speak in calm, measured, reasonable tones.
I just watched that a bit ago. And it was gloriously funny.
Not only did he go to college, but per Wikipedia he has a JD!
This guy, a JD!?
The hard-line 35%-ers, on the other hand, couldn’t give two shits in a barrel that this guy doesn’t have the first fucking clue what he’s talking about, because even in the midst of his glaring, shameless ignorance, he’s still telling them exactly what they want to hear.
Correction, Dan — based on the most recent polls, we can now talk about the hard-line 19-percenters.
Unfortunately, about 90% of those 19-percenters are in the media so we have to hear from them all the goddamned time.
I majored in history in college. There was a certain type of person who, upon learning my major, would say, “what are you going to do with that?” in a tone of voice like they thought I was totally wasting my time. Kevin James (and George Bush and many other Repubs) strikes as that type.
I also have a JD. When I was in law school (a top 10 law school), I was amazed at how ignorant some of my classmates were (some of whom graduated from very prestigious colleges).
It doesn’t matter where you went to school or how much education you have. If your education is all about getting a high paying job, you can end up very ill informed.
I’m impressed that this incident is already in wikipedia.
Ben D., yes, unfortunately, Dana Perino did not know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was. She went home after that question session and asked her husband if it was the same thing as the Bay of Pigs.
And then thought that her ignorance and incompetence was a funny story to tell.
—-
I do worry that enough people out there really don’t care about facts anymoer. That’s why I would like to see MSNBC or any other outlet become known for fact-based journalism. If they would follow up on questions and not let the talking points shout over them, it would truly be awesome.
It would help blunt Fox, b/c the talking heads on Fox wouldn’t want to go on MSNBC where they’d be challenged. If someone went on Fox and refused MSNBC it would be so easy to call them out as a liar.
Although, again, the 28%ers don’t seem to care about lies and the lying liars that tell them.
Kevin James is straight out of the Coulter School of Right-Wing Rhetoric: volume trumps the facts.
What an imbecile.
For a second there, I thought CM was arguing with an 11 year-old kid.
Of course, one has to think of this as well:
“You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.”
I have a sudden urge to see if I can dig out my copies (tape and print) of The Princess Bride.
Isabella, theres nothing more I hated than the question of “well what are you going to DO with that?” as if going to College is like a job training school. Usually, it was engineers who loved to ask that.
My response was always “become educated”.
Caren-
MSNBC is the Democratic Party of cable news. It still sucks but its by far the best option available.
Somehow we never say that Alberto Gonzalez, John Yoo or George W. Bush personifies the quality of a Harvard or Yale education.
Actually, Ben, at my house, we do. Specifically Harvard and Yale legacy undergrads, but still.
Immediately privious was to Ben A.
To Ben D. - I recommend Bloomberg, specifically their Hong Kong and Singapore desks. They are mostly business news, but not entirely. And I’ve never heard them talk about Brittany Spears and her kids as if her sad story were the biggest story of the day (or even news worth a mention).
Well, cheer up, my Little Children of the Pepper Sausage!
While I was wandering through the break room at work this afternoon, some kind soul had changed the channel from Fox to CNN, and they were doing a historical backgrounder on who Neville Chamberlain was and what exactly he did.
I prefer to see it as a good sign, that CNN thought it was worth using airtime to expound on background like that. They wouldn’t have done it if their audience weren’t interested in the facts.
Kevin Boy made a big mistake: He tried to bullshit Chris Matthews on a matter of political history. Say what you will about Ol’ Tweety, but he knows his shit in this area; he’s a history buff, and he was educated by Jesuits. And he may be annoying and frequently wrong, but he’s definitely not stupid.
Great segment, Auguste.
Now….what have you done with the REAL Tweety?
To Helen H.: “I have a sudden urge to see if I can dig out my copies (tape and print) of The Princess Bride. ”
“This is my favorite book in all the world, though I have never read it. How is such a thing possible?”
-The book is always better, but in the case, the movie is a close second. Have fun storming the castle!
I majored in history in college. There was a certain type of person who, upon learning my major, would say, “what are you going to do with that?” in a tone of voice like they thought I was totally wasting my time.
Fellow Historian. I got that a lot too. I frequently had to resist the urge to go into a prolonged pedagogic speech about the value of knowledge and preserving the past. Like I was Jed Bartlett or something.
There is no greater satisfaction than a resounding pronouncement of “I Told You So.” A historian’s greatest strength is that they are the ones who can loudly pronounce what a rotten idea jamming the bobby pin in the electrical outlet is. Those who act with a knowledge of history will always be better for it, and those who act without it will continue jamming their fingers in the garbage disposal.
Auguste, the phrase is “more like this.” He should trademark it. Peace.
Just to instantiate my claim about University of Oklahoma graduates, here’s a local St. Louis news report featuring Necia Chronister, a truly excellent OU alumna (a German major, fwiw) who’s now a grad student at Wash U. and who helped lead a recent protest against that institution’s decision to give Phyllis Shlafly an honorary degree.
He’s done it the other way, too. I wasn’t going for hyper-accuracy in my fully-credited phrase-parroting, my bad.
Poor Kevin. Watching that video, he reminds me of a Skinner box rat working himself to exhaustion on the promise of a pellet.
I realize that sounds contemptuous, but that’s the only way I know to describe his weird behavior. (”I love you Chris! Father my love child! Obama loves Hitler! Cookie now?”)
Chris Matthews has always been plenty liberal. He’s just a misogynist.