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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Voter fraud&#8221;  is a fraud</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Olivia</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515773</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 11:49:20 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515773</guid>
					<description>Mnemosyne:  They were free for a time before the primary.  A couple weeks, I think.  Anyway, I get it.  For some people getting an ID is difficult.  My opinion about the voter ID law was wrong/incomplete, and that's why I posted my comments.  I wanted to learn more about why this is an issue.  Please don't question whether I'm telling the truth about where I live and reply to my comments in such a sarcastic way is quite rude.  Is this not a forum for learning? If I was a student in a classroom would you respond to my questions in such a manner?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mnemosyne:  They were free for a time before the primary.  A couple weeks, I think.  Anyway, I get it.  For some people getting an ID is difficult.  My opinion about the voter ID law was wrong/incomplete, and that&#8217;s why I posted my comments.  I wanted to learn more about why this is an issue.  Please don&#8217;t question whether I&#8217;m telling the truth about where I live and reply to my comments in such a sarcastic way is quite rude.  Is this not a forum for learning? If I was a student in a classroom would you respond to my questions in such a manner?
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515476</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 16:26:13 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515476</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As I said, in my state IDs were being provided for free.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You must not be in Indiana with the nuns, then, because the Indiana BMV says &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dmv.org/in-indiana/id-cards.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on their website&lt;/a&gt; that the cards are not free:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Indiana identification card resembles a driver license, but has a non-driver label at the top. All ages are eligible to receive a state ID.  The cards cost $13 and are valid for six years. If you are at least 65 years old or disabled, the cost is $10. If you can't afford to pay for a state ID card, you may be issued one for free if the proper documentation is presented.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

IOW, they could have gotten free IDs if they'd gotten all of the proper documentation in line and presented the right forms.  Gosh, I can't imagine why elderly and disabled nuns who may not have been born in Indiana would have any trouble getting their documentation together and trundling down to the BMV to get their free cards, can you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>As I said, in my state IDs were being provided for free.</p></blockquote>
	<p>You must not be in Indiana with the nuns, then, because the Indiana BMV says <a href="http://www.dmv.org/in-indiana/id-cards.php" rel="nofollow">on their website</a> that the cards are not free:</p>
	<blockquote><p>The Indiana identification card resembles a driver license, but has a non-driver label at the top. All ages are eligible to receive a state ID.  The cards cost $13 and are valid for six years. If you are at least 65 years old or disabled, the cost is $10. If you can&#8217;t afford to pay for a state ID card, you may be issued one for free if the proper documentation is presented.</p></blockquote>
	<p>IOW, they could have gotten free IDs if they&#8217;d gotten all of the proper documentation in line and presented the right forms.  Gosh, I can&#8217;t imagine why elderly and disabled nuns who may not have been born in Indiana would have any trouble getting their documentation together and trundling down to the BMV to get their free cards, can you?
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		<title>by: Olivia</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515460</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 15:03:52 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515460</guid>
					<description>I'm afraid I have been rather dense regarding the seriousness of this law.  I thought it was just frivilous pandering, but I see there are groups of people for whom it can cause problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m afraid I have been rather dense regarding the seriousness of this law.  I thought it was just frivilous pandering, but I see there are groups of people for whom it can cause problems.
</p>
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		<title>by: JohnL</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515422</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:18:58 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515422</guid>
					<description>The nun story is being bandied about because nuns are being turned away because of the possibility of fraud. Olivia, there are many more precincts than DMVs (the nuns weren't given provisional ballots because it was known they woulcn't be able to get to a motor vehicle branch in the 10 day period). If the state was really serious about getting IDs to everyone, why didn't they have a mobile van that would go to lots of locations?

The bigger group that was affected was students at private universities (students at state universities got state ID). There were dozens of students who weren't allowed to vote (and many were not given a provisional vote) because they had the wrong type of photo ID (they had their state's ID instead of Indiana's). 

If a politician is trying to commit fraud, the best way to do it would be have a precinct captain (and ...) in your pocket. How does a voter ID law help with this? Also, remember that voter fraud is a felony so it's unlikely an individual would try it on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The nun story is being bandied about because nuns are being turned away because of the possibility of fraud. Olivia, there are many more precincts than DMVs (the nuns weren&#8217;t given provisional ballots because it was known they woulcn&#8217;t be able to get to a motor vehicle branch in the 10 day period). If the state was really serious about getting IDs to everyone, why didn&#8217;t they have a mobile van that would go to lots of locations?</p>
	<p>The bigger group that was affected was students at private universities (students at state universities got state ID). There were dozens of students who weren&#8217;t allowed to vote (and many were not given a provisional vote) because they had the wrong type of photo ID (they had their state&#8217;s ID instead of Indiana&#8217;s). </p>
	<p>If a politician is trying to commit fraud, the best way to do it would be have a precinct captain (and &#8230;) in your pocket. How does a voter ID law help with this? Also, remember that voter fraud is a felony so it&#8217;s unlikely an individual would try it on their own.
</p>
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		<title>by: paul</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515421</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:17:09 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515421</guid>
					<description>Sure, there's vote fraud, but it's by those who count the votes, not those who cast them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sure, there&#8217;s vote fraud, but it&#8217;s by those who count the votes, not those who cast them.
</p>
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		<title>by: wondering</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515419</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:15:59 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515419</guid>
					<description>We've had the same problem in Canada - apparently there are hordes of veil and burka wearing Muslim women who go from polling station to polling station casting double - triple - quadruple votes each.

Despite Elections Canada telling politicians that instances of voter fraud is very low - now everyone needs id with photos and addresses. Cause of course, all the parties got on the stupid ID bandwagon.

The only funny part is that the Conservatives have recently discovered that this disenfranchises rural voters - their voting base. Hopefully that means that these new rules will get thrown out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>We&#8217;ve had the same problem in Canada - apparently there are hordes of veil and burka wearing Muslim women who go from polling station to polling station casting double - triple - quadruple votes each.</p>
	<p>Despite Elections Canada telling politicians that instances of voter fraud is very low - now everyone needs id with photos and addresses. Cause of course, all the parties got on the stupid ID bandwagon.</p>
	<p>The only funny part is that the Conservatives have recently discovered that this disenfranchises rural voters - their voting base. Hopefully that means that these new rules will get thrown out.
</p>
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		<title>by: Em</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515407</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:04:39 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515407</guid>
					<description>Voting machine reliability is not a smokescreen, but just another branch on the democracy disenfranchisement tree.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Voting machine reliability is not a smokescreen, but just another branch on the democracy disenfranchisement tree.
</p>
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		<title>by: Olivia</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515377</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 12:15:50 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515377</guid>
					<description>&quot;You mean other than the fact that it’s difficult to get 12 handicapped and elderly nuns transported 10 miles away to stand in line for an hour to get an ID?&quot;

Wouldn't an absentee ballot serve people who have a difficult time leaving their residence better?

&quot;Also, there’s the objection that most of the forms of ID required (aside from if the state is mailing you voter ID cards) cost money to get.&quot;

As I said, in my state IDs were being provided for free.  Although transportation could be a problem for some, but if it's a problem to get to the BMV then isn't it also a problem to get to the polls?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;You mean other than the fact that it’s difficult to get 12 handicapped and elderly nuns transported 10 miles away to stand in line for an hour to get an ID?&#8221;</p>
	<p>Wouldn&#8217;t an absentee ballot serve people who have a difficult time leaving their residence better?</p>
	<p>&#8220;Also, there’s the objection that most of the forms of ID required (aside from if the state is mailing you voter ID cards) cost money to get.&#8221;</p>
	<p>As I said, in my state IDs were being provided for free.  Although transportation could be a problem for some, but if it&#8217;s a problem to get to the BMV then isn&#8217;t it also a problem to get to the polls?
</p>
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		<title>by: NancyP</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515365</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 11:38:38 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515365</guid>
					<description>The MO Supreme Court stated that there has not been a case of voter identification fraud in the state. In other words, there is no empirical evidence for the law. The same situation pertains in other states. 

Election fraud exists, and it is carried out at the counting level. The practice of paying ordinary voters for votes has declined to insignificance - bribing is now restricted to the legislator level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The MO Supreme Court stated that there has not been a case of voter identification fraud in the state. In other words, there is no empirical evidence for the law. The same situation pertains in other states. </p>
	<p>Election fraud exists, and it is carried out at the counting level. The practice of paying ordinary voters for votes has declined to insignificance - bribing is now restricted to the legislator level.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515362</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 11:34:13 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/05/12/voter-fraud-is-a-fraud/#comment-515362</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;By the way, 12 nuns in South Bend, IN were turned away from the primary because they didn’t have an ID. That sucks, but given that there were at least 6 months in which the Voter ID law was advertised and free state IDs were being issued at the BMV, why did they not get one?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You mean other than the fact that it's difficult to get 12 handicapped and elderly nuns transported 10 miles away to stand in line for an hour to get an ID?

I'm sure it's nice for you to be able-bodied, young, and have several hours to kill during which you don't need a tube feeding or to have your adult diaper changed or colostomy bag emptied, but believe it or not, not everyone is like you.  Some people even have jobs that run the same time as DMV hours and have trouble getting time off to wait in line, or have to take a bus for an hour to get to the closest DMV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>By the way, 12 nuns in South Bend, IN were turned away from the primary because they didn’t have an ID. That sucks, but given that there were at least 6 months in which the Voter ID law was advertised and free state IDs were being issued at the BMV, why did they not get one?</p></blockquote>
	<p>You mean other than the fact that it&#8217;s difficult to get 12 handicapped and elderly nuns transported 10 miles away to stand in line for an hour to get an ID?</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s nice for you to be able-bodied, young, and have several hours to kill during which you don&#8217;t need a tube feeding or to have your adult diaper changed or colostomy bag emptied, but believe it or not, not everyone is like you.  Some people even have jobs that run the same time as DMV hours and have trouble getting time off to wait in line, or have to take a bus for an hour to get to the closest DMV.
</p>
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