Carr2d2 has a post up at Skepchick examining whether or not “Battlestar Galactica” is propaganda-through-subterfuge, luring fans into Mormonism against our wills. She’s responding to emails and websites that reference the show’s peculiar history to make the leap into arguing that it’s propaganda. But calling the show Mormon propaganda is a strained argument on its surface, as carr2d2 explains. The premise of the show—taken from the original, which was created by a devout Mormon writer—does resemble the Book of Mormon, particularly the central importance of the Lost Tribe of Israel (Earth on the show). But beyond the bare bones of the mythology, there’s no reason to think the re-imagined version that is so popular today is promoting a particularly Mormon point of view. As carr2d2 points out, if anything the show (as it currently stands) seems to argue for religious pluralism coupled with heavy doses of tolerance to keep the peace. It’s worth waiting to see what evolves from the struggle between polytheists and monotheists that’s emerged in recent episodes, though. (I haven’t seen last night’s episode—we were at Harold and Kumar, which I probably should review—so maybe something changed.) She also argues that the show’s remarkably non-judgmental attitudes towards drinking, sex, and swearing discourages the Mormon propaganda reading. I would strenuously add that women have more power, freedom, and access to public roles in the 12 colonies than Mormonism would allow. Changing some major male characters on the original show to female characters (notably Boomer and Starbuck) is a big raspberry to the religiosity of the original.
But what really bothers me about the “OMG MORMON” thing is touched on in this part of carr2d2’s post:
Why deprive ourselves of a beautifully constructed, well written, sexy and intelligent show because some of the ideas in it might come from a source we don’t agree with? Wanna know a secret? It’s called “science fiction” for a reason. It’s FICTION! It’s not going to turn us all into Mormon zombies.
The notion that being exposed to religious mythology means you have to take it as true instead of a delightful fiction permeates our culture, and I for one object. And this isn’t an attitude just held by believers rejecting other beliefs. A number of atheists I’ve known find my interest in biblical mythology annoying, or even find possession of a Bible baffling. I’m not sure what’s going on. For atheists, I think a lot of them just find a lot of relief in being able to reject a set of stories forced on them against their will in childhood, but the overall social assumption that exposure to religious stories means running the chance of recruitment gives these stories far too much power.
People believe because they want to believe. I think certain stories have more stick in various points in time because they speak to people’s concerns, but if you don’t bring the will to believe, I don’t see why you can’t enjoy the stories in a literary sense. The relationship between Mormon mythology and BSG makes me realize why Mormonism is such a popular religion, easily recruiting from those who want to believe. The sense of unmooredness, being adrift is something that speaks to people in these times, when living in the same neighborhood as your parents is becoming rare to the point of being frowned upon. Our highly mobile society has a lot of advantages, but this sense of being adrift is an undeniable part of it, so if you’re feeling particularly affected by it and looking for religious answers, Mormonism seems to fit the bill.
But for those of us who don’t want to believe, the stories can still resonate as entertainment, because we do come from the same society as those who wish to believe. Instead of being appalled by that, maybe it’s better to find it interesting, a starting point to examine why some people are better equipped to handle these feelings rationally and others seek out religious answers.
62 Responses to “Secret cult of Mormon sci-fi fans?”
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Excellent analysis, Amanda!
Some people seem uncomfortable with story and metaphor. Witness the fundie Christian hysteria over Harry Potter and The Golden Compass. People seem to be afraid that they will be tainted by reading it. And there do seem to be similarities in the BSG Mormonophobia phenom you describe.
I’m with you that one can enjoy myths, religious stories, and legends — even gain important insights about our culture and our species — without taking them literally.
Otoh, I have to admit, I have more empathy for my friends who are uncomfortable with too many religious references in fiction, despite my sense that they are giving the references too much power, than I do people who flip out over real or perceived anti-religious messages in fiction. As you point out, some of us (*raises hand*) have been pressured by our fundamentalist families/ kin to adopt beliefs we don’t agree with, and it can get one’s back up in a big way if we feel the writer of a story has a hidden agenda to try to put one over on us.
Anyhow, a very interesting discussion. Thanks.
In my haste to post, I realize I wrote my comment in a confusing way. What I am trying to say is that I see parallels between the discomfort atheists feel regarding religious referents in fiction and the distrust religious folks fee regarding anti-religious referents.
Fiction only works when we can slip into a state of reverie, and fall through the words into the story. If we feel the writer has a hidden motive to try to recruit us, we have a hard time achieving that state of suspended disbelief, and can’t enjoy the work.
So there’s a real issue of trust between the writer and the reader. A sort of unwritten contract. The writer of fiction, I believe, has a duty not to proselytize or propagandize.
Let’s go ahead and short circuit this real quickly: here’s one of the propagators of the “controversy.” I’m sure longtime blogospheric residents will remember his trolling.
However, I would caution against funding Tom Cruise and Will Smith movies, as I think both households are double-tithing to Scientology. Plus, I just saved you from some shitty movies.
Plus, I’d rather go into how the current season is near-catatonia-inducing, although I do like the Tyrol/Private Pyle parallels.
The show looks like it might me moving to some sort of Christian propaganda ending. Damned depressing thought.
But it is sexy. That helps keep me watching.
Ha, thanks for the info, norb. That doubles up my annoyance at this. I guess I thought it was worth addressing, though, because I’ve seen people express discomfort at all the religiosity on the show, and I don’t mind it at all. It strikes me as realistic to suggest that a culture that was religious to begin with would start going through religious upheavals in the wake of a tragedy like that. Even though I don’t like seeing characters I like being all religious, I realize that’s a personal prejudice and am usually glad that my preconceptions are being challenged. It’s actually kind of cool to see a show grapple with the issues that most shows avoid like the plague. “Buffy” got to the point where they had to deal with the idea of god, and while there were a few potshots about how there really isn’t one (the universe on the show implied that a greater being beyond the gods and demons that Buffy had to fight was consciousless, and hardly a god at all), there was a distinct unwillingness to portray anything that could alienate different factions of the audience.
the overall social assumption that exposure to religious stories means running the chance of recruitment gives these stories far too much power.
I, too, find this blurring of fiction and reality baffling . . . or rather, the distrust that people can and will be able to tell the difference between the two. As Laura suggested above, there are parallels here to the way in which religious right-wingers get hysterical about being exposed to ideas they don’t agree with–as if the very exposure will be so overwhelming that they won’t stand a chance. Hence the way they talk about non-straight people “recruiting,” or worry that children reading Harry Potter will become wiccans.
Ideas are just ideas, no more. And they only have as much power as we allow them to have.
the overall social assumption that exposure to religious stories means running the chance of recruitment gives these stories far too much power.
It’s broader than that, I think: I’ve seen this same reaction from people who “don’t want their children exposed” to someone wearing a pentagram, to the existence of gay people, or to anything that they don’t enthusiastically support.
There is a whole class of people who are so insecure in their beliefs that the very existence of any alternative is dangerous. Unfortunately, they seem to be in charge.
(And the myth of the Lost Tribes of Israel isn’t specific to Mormonism: it was also used to justify all sorts of racist, colonialist, and nationalist BS.)
You’re right, when I was a kid I loved stories from the Bible. I loved any stories for that matter.
And I grew up to be a nature loving atheist.
I think Amanda is onto something with the appeal of The Lost Tribe. A lot of SF and fantasy fiction uses that sort of questing/ traveling/ pilgrimage trope. The generation ship lost among the stars; the quest to destroy the ring of power — leaving behind all you know to undertake a journey. Even Star Trek had a bit of that with its five-year mission.
It evokes a sense of mystery and discovery blended with the nostalgia for what has been lost, and rootlessness Amanda mentions. What will be found around the next corner? A new danger, or long-lost kin?
Here’s another angle — some of us are so atheist that we don’t get the religious overtones. Example — I needed to have it explained to me that The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe had anything to do with Christianity. No, really. After many views of the (older) movie, and a couple times through the whole Narnia Chronicles, it had never dawned on me. This is because I was not raised Christian. I was raised atheist. So, up until recently, when learned a few things about religions in an anthropological/literary sense,I didn’t notice when many religious allusions were beating me over the head.
Chances are, if there are Mormon tones to BSG, many people don’t even notice, cause they don’t know much or anything about Mormonism.
I actually had to read Laura’s first comment twice to see “Harry Potter and the Golden Compass” as two different titles instead of a single title for, like, the most awesome kids’ book EVAR.
I don’t get why people get so resentful about religious outreach. I’d be disappointed if religious people were satisfied with everyone they don’t see showing up at church on Sunday going to hell.
Two words: Joseph Campbell
The themes explored in BSG are THE THEMES found in myths that pre and post-date Christianity. The Quest. The Buddy Picture. The Road. Destiny.
Yes, they’re Mormon. And yes, they’re everything not Mormon. Or Christian. Or Buddhist. Or Gnostic. Or Whatever.
Well, there’s really multiple levels of this sort of mythology. Some just use it to add flavor and cohesive themes to a body of work. Some use their worldview to inform the world the characters of a work of fiction interact, and finally there’s the overt preaching.
I generally can enjoy most works of fiction regardless of flavor unless the underlying religious or political reasoning breaks my suspension of disbelief, or it starts demonizing my own positions.
Complexity goes a long way to quieting concerns. The more a story adheres to a black-and-white view of the issues, the more likely it’ll be that I’ll start arguing with the story instead of enjoying it. This, I can recognize liberterian/conservative themes in “The Incredib;es” yet still enjoy it largely as a movie, while Terry Goodkind’s fantasy series lost me in a bad way over it’s preachy objectivism.
And yeah, I recognize that I’m probably not going to notice those problems in a work that appeals to my own worldview and biases.
Mormonism can sound awfully reasonable or attractive if you focus on differences from other forms of Christianity (or from Christianity, if you prefer). Only when you look at the more specifically religious and Bible-related details do you start to find idiocy.
Well…
The Left Behind series is supposed to be fiction.
Also, there are a ton of fiction, especially in fantasy, sometimes in sci-fi that actively promotes a certain religeous point of view that the author hopes will be recieved. MR Sellars has done a Wicca mystery/urban fantasy series that promulgates it’s ideology. Ayn Rand’s novels are noted, plus there are *alot* of objectivist/libertarian books in fantasy and sci-fi, as one has noted above–all bad. To me, that’s fairly prime facie evidence of the worthiness/worthlessness of an ideology–when they cannot engender true stories.
Then there are all the books that rely on a particular religeon in a new context stories that really stretch out what a religeon is supposed to mean. And then there are books like Dune that creates a religeon fairly deeply, out of the author’s perception of religeon.
Lastly, there are morons who see a big sci-fi extravaganza, and make a religeon out of a few bits of dialogue explaning why psychokinensis and augmented suggestion works.
It’s a big world out there in speculative fiction.
But on the BSG topic, I do want to note that however much that it doesn’t enspouse Mormonism, I *do* believe it’s the only show that isn’t christian, let along monotheist on tv. That’s gotta rub a few feathers wrong.
I just read “Under the Banner of Heaven” this week and noticed a few parallels with BSG, but I figured those were artifacts from the original series and not part of Moore’s vision for his work.
I think you can read these things either way. I am, for example, convinced that Head Six truly is an angel of god sent to Baltar and I believe she took over the body of that Baltar groupie woman in the head where he had the fight with Connor and the other dude in the season premiere. I am a non-theist and this is a story and that’s really ok because none of this is real.
I told my idea to my mom (relatively sane lutheran who spends half her day immersed in her bible and her other study methods provided by the church) chimes in, “Well, yes, of course. You know there really ARE angels.” (please don’t get the impression that she watches the show, she was just listening to me ramble)
I bite my tongue to keep the peace and realize you can be into this show from any viewpoint. I’m sure a true fundy would have been gone when “gods” were mentioned, but if they’re still hanging on, the “one true god” must be a beacon for them.
I realize that religion is a reality in the world and that I am a minority in my unbelief and that doesn’t prevent me from enjoying works of fiction (for instance, I absolutely love “Life of Pi”) that employ religion as a major component of the work.
If only the same were true in reverse.
Just btw, mormonism as a social phenomenon also has an incredible amount to recommend it to the rootless in search of structure. When you move halfway across the country, you just check in at your new ward and they slot you right into the social and religious-indoctrination services where you left off. Heck, if you’re just traveling somewhere and need some help, call the local powers-that-be, and the young mormon service corps will be right on over.
If Mormons were trains, they would absolutely run on time. But that doesn’t mean their mythology has any more power to seduce people to the dark side than Harry Potter does…
Fat Freakout: The show looks like it might me moving to some sort of Christian propaganda ending. Damned depressing thought.
Wait, the humans are all converting to be monotheists this season? I thought that was one of the main differences between humans and Cylons: the humans are polytheists and the Cylons are monotheists.
Left_Wing_Fox: This, I can recognize liberterian/conservative themes in “The Incredibles” yet still enjoy it largely as a movie, while Terry Goodkind’s fantasy series lost me in a bad way over it’s preachy objectivism.
I think that’s because the libertarian themes in The Incredibles are at odds with themselves within the film. On the one hand, you have literal supermen (and -women, -girls and -boys) who are being forced to repress their natural talents. On the other hand, you have the whole character arc of Bob, who has to learn to accept help from others (including non-Supers like Edna) and work as part of a team, which isn’t exactly a libertarian virtue. It’s that tension between the two themes that keeps it from going too far in either direction.
The Mormon themes in the original BSG series were pretty obvious… are people just realizing this now?
I can imagine that someone might have thought to himself, “you know? The whole Mormon mythos would make a great starting premise in a science fiction setting!” And you know, it kind of does.
Also, a lot of Mormons I know (self selection bias here, of course) are hardcore geeks. If a Mormon himself thought of using his own religion’s stories as the premise of the original BSG, more power to him.
Star Trek has not, too my knowledge, created legions of raging atheists, even though the personal views of Gene Roddenberry were well-known. They were just good stories. Whether BSG was created by someone who thought that Mormonism’s stories made for a great premise or whether the creators wanted a backdoor way to portray Mormonism positively doesn’t really matter to me: they’re just good stories. And it kind of helps if you’re aware of how some of BSG’s premises are adaptations from Mormonism, just like it’s helpful to know that Lone Star is actually an adaptation of Oedipus.
I am hoping that rather than go to a montheist/Christian ending, what they are doing is so blurring the lines between cylon and human (including their belief systems) that we are not going to be able to distinguish one from the other anymore. The Cylon are facing human problems right now (their machines are getting all uppity on their ass) and the humans are going more cylon (This monotheist cult is a hair away from starting to think as a collective.) I am hoping that one idea(Christianity/monotheism) or race does not win out and that will be the whole point of the show. Whether they destroy each other or find peace is the question.
Oh, and I was raised with next to no religion. And I also had NO IDEA that Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe was a Christian metaphor until told in adulthood. I am actually really glad I was raised almost religion-less because then you can look at literary works objectively and just enjoy them for what they are without the emotional religious baggage you carry determining for you what the show is trying to tell you.
I am actually really glad I was raised almost religion-less because then you can look at literary works objectively and just enjoy them for what they are without the emotional religious baggage you carry determining for you what the show is trying to tell you.
This strikes me as much like reading Irish literature without knowing that Ireland was dominated by the English for much of its history: the ideas and language and mindset of a nation are permeated with aspects of its history and culture. Not being aware of the western world’s religion and history when reading its literature is like watching a modern movie on a black and white TV.
Not everything is allegory. In fact, I personally find allegory annoying. But even in non-allegorical literature and stories, reading it without the background knowledge of western culture and religion means not that you’re viewing something from an “unbiased” perspective but that you’re missing a dimension of the action when it comes to language and themes.
I am a non-theist and this is a story and that’s really ok because none of this is real.
Yeah. It seems pretty clear to me that in the world of the series, the Cylon god really exists. It’s part of the premise of the story, and buying into it for the purposes of the story does not mean that you have to buy into it in any other way.
I have a friend who wrote a series of SF novels in which part of the premise is that the Abrahamic religions are correct (sort of) about God, and the Archangels show up in various off-beat ways. (I’ve described the series as Left Behind for Unitarians — the first book is called Archangel Protocol, if anyone’s curious.) Lyda, the author, is actually Wiccan; she just thought the Abrahamic mythos made a fun premise. It’s part of the fictional universe.
The Cylon god = Tron
norbizness said:
“I’m sure longtime blogospheric residents will remember his trolling.”
Oh, how I regret the ten seconds I lost reading that schmuck’s droolings.
For those of you worried about where Ron Moore will end Galactica, I’d point you to where Deep Space Nine ended. I’m not worried. Unless we’re expecting Starbuck to go off a cliff with her hands wrapped around Baltar’s throat.
Tyro,
You do have a point, but I was talking more in regards to personal emotional baggage, as in recoiling every time any show mentions god or abortion or whatever triggers you. I seem to have really very few triggers emotionally in regards to religion.
Which is not to say that intellectually, having some frame of reference is interesting. To use your example, yes. Knowing the history of the English and the Irish will give you a richer experience when reading about them (or allegory reflecting them.) But since I did not grow up in poverty and oppression in Ireland, it isn’t going to necessarily trigger a bigger set of emotions than the story intends. Whether this is good or bad is up to interpretation.
I will say that the only way I have been able to enjoy BSG is through also reading the recaps on Television Without Pity. Part of this is practical, I am vision and hearing impaired, so I need extra help to follow the show. But part of this is because the resident recapper, Jacob, brings so much historical and philosophical and literary background to the recap, as well as his own perspective to it, that it lets me enjoy the show in a whole new way. (If you haven’t read his writing on BSG, I’d suggest it. It is definitely NOT your generic snarky recap.) Some people can’t stand his writing because he does add so many more layers to the show, but I find I get so much more out of the show. Maybe I’m just a dumbass, and I need a Jacob to explain everything to me, but I want to marry him. (Even though I think he is gay or whatever, I don’t care.) Point being, he offers intellectual background info that enhances my enjoyment of the show, but his added background info doesn’t so much affect my emotional reaction to the show in regards to religion as much as I’d think it might if I were raised Christian or Mormon or whatnot.
Tyro - I doubt the Irish would agree that Ireland has been “dominated by the English for much of Ireland’s history”. Ireland has never REALLY been conquered by anyone, if you ask the Irish.
Just sayin’.
I figured there was a Mormon connection ever since the opening series mentioned the planet Kobol, an obvious anagram for the planet Kolob, said by Joseph Smith to be inhabited by God. And I thought that the wackiness of Mormon theology would be a great basis for a sci fi show. I’ve been hooked on BSG ever since.
A number of atheists I’ve known find my interest in biblical mythology annoying, or even find possession of a Bible baffling.
I once knew a woman who had flourescently unabashed socialist and atheist parents. When she was in college, she decided to see what this bible stuff was all about and enrolled in a for-credit biblical studies course.
She attempted to hide this from her parents, fearing the worst. They found out - and their reaction surprised her. Her father hounded her every week to ask “how did you do on that assignment … did you finish your readings this week? What about this, this and this to read to … you really should read it”.
Seems the supersocialistatheist parents were very much of the idea that their daughter should do very well in a biblical studies class because they felt that the more she knew about it, the better to fight the good fight against culturally-ingrained superstition! As ever, they believed that MORE learning was better than none - even when it came to learning about the bible.
doubt the Irish would agree that Ireland has been “dominated by the English for much of Ireland’s history”. Ireland has never REALLY been conquered by anyone, if you ask the Irish.
And I REALLY had a hot, torrid affair with Gillian Anderson, Halle Berry, and the Dahm Triplets. All at the same time. Really. Just ask me.
My family has been assembled from Irish, Scottish, and Welsh origins, so I’m quite honest about the fact the the primary history of my people is losing wars to the English.
Sara: I’d be disappointed if religious people were satisfied with everyone they don’t see showing up at church on Sunday going to hell.
I, for one, would be delighted if I could go to hell in peace without being proselytized every time I turn around.
My familiarity with Mormon dogma pretty much begins and ends with the lost tribe stuff, which (as has been pointed out) is not unique to LDS, so it really hasn’t impacted my enjoyment of BSG.
If you want to ruin a perfectly good scifi novel with Mormon bile, just read any sampling of political writing by Orson Scott Card.
Most modern followers of Pagan traditions don’t have this kind of problem (although many still have the same baggage from their upbringing as do atheists.) Pagan polytheist societies are pluralistic by nature. They understand that a myth is a story that tells a truth, whether or not the events actually happened or not. Few sophisticated Romans of the Empire believed that the gods physically lived in the clouds surrounding Mt. Olympus, or that Minerva sprang full grown from the brow of Zeus. Mostly because, it didn’t matter.
Myths are allegories that relate to the human condition, and offer a way to grasp its meaning. So it doesn’t matter if the myth is “true” in an absolute sense of noumenal reality, its a true allegory. So the story of Jesus, or Persephone, or Hercules, Lakshmi, or any other myth can be embraced for what it is without investing belief in its absolute reality.
The reason your average true believer wants no exposure to other religions is because many believe that mere exposure: seeing a pentagram, touching a tarot deck, reading a Koran or a Greek myth, listening to ethnic music (especially African or Asian), or such like will open the person to demonic possession.
Not only can the person be possessed, it can be handed down as a generational curse.
These people are taking the old song
“be careful little eyes what you see” to new heights.
Some won’t read fiction at all, because it’s all lies.
Some refuse to let any book other than the Bible into their house, to protect their minds.
If their stories are strong enough to change lives–and they believe they are–then other stories are strong enough to do the same.
I have no comment on the new BSG. I’ve been avoiding it.
Then again, I avoid most television.
Roxanne pretty much nailed it with the references to Joseph Campbell, though, with respect to the Mormon angle that inspired the original post, I found the discussion in Amanda’s links about Mormon ideas of personal agency particularly interesting given the ending to Ender’s Game. (i.e., if you aren’t given full information about the ramifications of what you’re doing, can you be performing a good or evil act?)
I can’t seem to find it, but recently on Digby I read a post by her that referred to cognitive experiments that established a correlation between being told something and believing that it’s true. So, in one sense, religionists really do have something to worry about vis a vis their flock’s exposure to opposing world views. Of course, this same research would indicate cause for concern for secularists as well, at least with respect to ensuring that everyone who currently believes in secularism continues to do so. Persoally, my hope that Sagan’s QED of “science works” will become an inexorable pull towards secularism, but we’ll see.
The Cylon god = Tron
You wish.
“L-l-look at you, hacker. A p-p-pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you r-run through my corridors-s. H-h-how can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?”
Hate to say it, but my guess is that no one here knows enough about Mormonism to say what is or is not Mormon in relation to BSG. As pointed out time and again, much of the religious ideas used by BSG both old and new are *not* Mormon specific. Stephanie Meyers’ “Twilight” vampire series is more consistantly Mormon than BSG ever was - and that isn’t a lot.
I am not saying the old BSG didn’t have Mormon ideas within it. However, most of them were winks and nods such as mentioning a word here or a concept there that had a relationship to Mormonism. The rest of the show or how the Mormonism was used was so far removed from the actual context of doctrine and beliefs as to become, well, a seperate mythos. No problem with that because that is what literature is all about; creativity.
What I am tired of is the idea that BSG, especially the old one, had any Mormonism that a Mormon would find at all representative of their beliefs. The truth is that most Mormons found the concepts of BSG as hokey and unrealistic as any other viewer. Most Mormons I know found more Mormonism in the original Star Wars than they did in BSG beyond some very specific uses of names or limited concepts.
I’m amused by the people gloating that they totally saw the Mormon thing. It’s completely reasonable for people not to know the details of Mormon mythology. It’s still a slender minority of a religion, and doesn’t just seep in like Christianity.
One reason that it’s growing so fast is because it’s got room to grow, unlike Catholicism or other Protestant churches that have reached their saturation point.
I totally stopped drinking caffeine thanks to the parable of Kat’s addiction to stimulants! Thanks, J-Smith!
The new BSG is to the old one as Fred Clark’s “Slacktivist: Left Behind Fridays” are to the actual LB books.
Fred takes a look (a very very long slow look) at the La Haye monstrosities and asks, over and over, how would real people actually behave in these circumstances.
I never actually saw the original BSG; I was just the right target demographic for the original broadcasts but too much of an SF snob to watch it. I got the impression that mainly it was cheesy as all hell, and all discofied.
Even so I daresay that as art and fiction with verisimilitude, it was way better than the LB books. So what Moore et al do with the newversion is less obviously confrontational.
But it’s the same sort of thing: accept the challenge of an arbitrary mythology (whether LDS or just some cheesy one-season scifi show from 1978) and ask, what would people really do in that case?
Mark, you didn’t miss anything by not seeing BSG TOS.
It was really bad. The only reason I saw any of it (lame justification following…) was because TV was so bad in general at that time. No cable, 5-9 channels total. Very few choices. VCR’s too expensive for regular folks, and very few (expensive) pre-recorded tapes.
If you wanted to watch something, you had to watch the crap that was on. While realizing it was bad. But watching it anyway. While holding your nose and wishing it was better.
TV is way better now. Even if you get 150-channels and they all look bad, there’s almost always something decent available…
BSG TOS had one shining moment: Fred Astaire had a guest spot, and he ROCKED THE WORLD. Seriously.
OABTW, the pic above? HOTTAY McHOTTERSONS, all of ‘em.
Ah, Mike, let us not forget that BSG TOS cannot hold a candle to the badness that was Buck Rogers in the 25th Century!
“Bidi bidi bidi.”
Touché, teac. You win that one…
:)
Incredible Hulk, starring Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno.
Wonder Woman - Linda Carter.
The Six Million Dollar Man.
The Bionic Woman.
Great bad stuff. Live action comics all. And I loved ‘em!
Course, I was a kid who had no taste other than liking pretty much any and all SciFi at the time.
It’s completely reasonable for people not to know the details of Mormon mythology.
Absolutely. And not knowing doesn’t impact a whit on one’s enjoyment (or not) of the show. It’s fabulous episodic TV with great production values, complex story lines, and complicated characters.
An understanding of religious traditions and theologies is almost required to fully grasp most complex works. One cannot fully comprehend Dickens without having some understanding of the Anglican virtue of Charity; most readings of Moby Dick lead us to theology of Manichaeism. Of course, our culture is permeated with religion and theology — most people know the high points of the Book of Enoch, even though it was dropped from the cannon some 1600 years ago — so we are generally aware of the narratives and their significance without knowing their original sources.
Personally, I have always argued that atheists are the best arbiters of theology, as they are not hampered by faith and can examine a system as a whole and compare and contrast more accurately then any believer can.
The theology/mythology of BSG — which I thank Amanda for getting me to watch — seems to be a combination of Catholicism, Judaism, and Mormonism. The movement from polytheism to monotheism seems to echo the same movement of Cannonites from polytheism to Judaism. The figure of Baltar is, by far, the most interesting to the entire theological sub-text: he seems to be part Joseph Smith, part St. Paul, and part Abraham. Additionally, there has been an previous emphasis on circular determinism — which is reminiscent of Buddhism and certain gnostic faiths.
Let me elaborate on the Joseph Campbell thing a bit.
The overarching theme of the show is “everything has happened before and it will happen again.” We’re caught in a cycle we can’t get out of (something ISM religion, anyone? Anyone?). Errr ah, like going to war over resources, worldviews and whatnot …which the bomb was supposed to change, but didn’t because we found a way around self-sacrifice in the process by using chemicals and planes and “smarter” technology.
Of course, every world religion has this moment of transcendence. Jesus changing the rules on the 10 Commandments comes to mind (Love God, Love Yourself vs. a bunch of rules) and self-sacrifice as opposed to sacrificing others. Abraham transcended the human sacrifice thing (thanks for those bookends, King James!). Also, there’s Teh Buddha –the ultimate transcender.
If you think that BSG is truly a metaphor for “real world today” …well, I think you’ve got to take a look at how fundamentalism IN ALL ITS FORMS has us all stuck. Something’s about to happen to change that. Both on BSG and maybe in “real world today.”
Baltar and Adama don’t seem like fundamentalists. Roslin and Six are, tho. And it will be interesting to see how that plays out, particularly concerning the final five.
Isn’t Baltar just a sock puppet for Six, and she for whomever is directing her agenda?
That to me makes Baltar neither a fundamentalist nor an anti-fundamentalist (for lack of a better term).
He has been and is being coercively manipulated with the dire consequence of non-cooperation with Six being, ultimately, his death.
That he choses to protect his own hide, to make the psychological pain which is precursor to physical pain and death stop, by doing Six’s (and other Cylons’) bidding, and that he knowingly takes advantage of the less intelligent / less educated / more vulnerable / more gullible people, playing on their insecurities and fears, all at the expense of his fellow humans, makes him a coward and a sell-out and a traitor and a vile entity.
He is, in short, a wonderfully drawn villan.
This is, of course, one of the interesting ideas raised: the suggestion that there is a fine line between villain and prophet. Certainly, Elijah (from OT) can be viewed as both sock puppet and villain as well.
by doing Six’s (and other Cylons’) bidding
I think that presupposes that HIS six IS six. I’m not sure that’s the case.
Of course, our culture is permeated with religion and theology — most people know the high points of the Book of Enoch
You must have an awfully narrow definition of your culture, or a love of outright lying. Most Americans don’t know the high points of Jeremiah.
Bidi bidi bidi!!! Nanu nanu!
BSG TOS was actually a highly rated program. It only lasted one season b/c it was expensive for the time. None of its replacements ever got its ratings.
John Dykstra did the effects for Star Wars and BSG. Star Wars threatened to sue, which is why the ‘blasters’ only shot like flash lights and not like Star Trek’s phasers. (Yes Star Wars was claiming rights to effects used by other SF shows for decades like Star Trek)
I still can’t quite wrap my mind around why the show was so expensive when they ended up rushing production and then having to use the same 3 fx shots over and over and over and over. Certainly they could have gotten more for $1million+ in 1978?
Nanu nanu!
most people know the high points of the Book of Enoch
?????????????
Enoch was a city? at least according to Vampire:theMasquerade…
i demand more info!
I think Baltar is much more Mohammed than any other prophet; although Bacchas sometimes comes to mind. Most of his “theology” sounds like modern self-help gurus. The writers are just making things up as they go along and the viewers are filling in the blanks. Who people decide he is seems to say more about the viewer than Baltar, and that is a sign of good writing.
Sadly, I have not enjoyed this season because I think they have gone over the top with the characters. Having one main character a cylon was dramatic. Picking several main characters as cylons is overkill and beyond my suspension of disbelief.
So BSG is fanfic on Bible fanfic? I’m completely not shocked here. The Book or Mormon works better as SF than as fantasy anyway.
Whether Head Six is a Cylon entity, an envoy of the one true god, or something else entirely… does it actually make a difference? Does it make Balthar any less of a traitor depending on exactly what is the nature of the entity he’s delivering humanity to?
This does not account for many former atheists’ conversion experiences. I think these people may be failing to notice that they’re applying insufficient (often hypocritical) standards of rigor, but they aren’t all hoping for (or even happy about) a god.I’d rather go into how the current season is near-catatonia-inducing
Dear BSG People,
Please to make Starbuck badass and tuff again, instead of this sort of sad depressing mental case with a bunch of fingerpaints.
I mean she was always crazy but she was badass-tuff crazy, not “curl up in the fetal position muttering to herself and then turn into Stockholm-buddies with her former captor” crazy.