I’m sorry. Plain and simple. I didn’t pick the offensive imagery in my book, but I should have caught it sooner than now. I didn’t and there’s no excuse. It was my first book, I was excited and happy, but I needed to have a more critical eye. I would do anything to remove racist images from the first printing of the book if I could, and I am relieved and happy to say that they will be removed from future printings. Seal Press has their note of apology up too, and they accept full responsibility for these mistakes. I really recommend reading it.
I can understand why anyone would choose to boycott a book with these images, and I respect that choice. Hopefully, once they are removed, people will reconsider supporting the book if they like the content. I, for one, will be ripping the pages out of my copy but keeping them as a reminder to be alert. Thank you to everyone who’s engaged in a conversation that’s been tough for me but productive nonetheless.
This is pretty much what I’ve got to say. I welcome your feedback below. I imagine things might get pretty intense, so I may not choose to say much more than this, but know that I’m reading and listening and respect your thoughts very much. Once again, I apologize for the images, my overlooking them, and any hurt this may have caused.
And thank you. The book will now go back on my wishlist.
w000t…
Book ban!
The first print is now a collectible item!!!!
It takes a lot to admit you’re wrong– especially in the public eye.
And thank you for showing what a REAL apology looks like and not offering one of those “I’m sorry if you were offended” non-apologies.
Yup. I think that’s all people wanted. Kudos.
I’m very happy to hear that subsequent printings will be released without the offensive imagery. Though I still think the folks at Seal and Perseus stink to high heaven for not getting this the first go round. How hard would it have been to photoshop the totally effed-up stereotypical brown primitives out of the chosen comic panels?
By the way, aside from the atrocious design, it is Cracking Me Up so far.
I certainly understand your being sorry. But boorish white guys waving breif cases and golf clubs would not have conveyed the sense of danger you were probably going for. There is nothing funny about racial insensitivity. But what are you going to do? Native Americans on the war path? Drunken Hells Angels? I guess we have to go with the little aliens from the cinematic triumph Mars Attacks! I say judge the author on the whole body of work, not a few illustrations.
I am so relieved to see you apologize here.
To an extent I can understand how an illustration like that could end up in the book, as part of the theme of campy 1940’s era jungle comics, which were full of racist portrayals of black savages. But to include such an image without comment shows an extreme error of judgment. And considering how much respect I have for you and your writings, it would me mightily disillusioning for this to go uncommented on.
So, I’ll just repeat what others have said, and say thanks for showing integrity to apologize.
But boorish white guys waving breif cases and golf clubs would not have conveyed the sense of danger you were probably going for.
Are you serious?
Like I said in the thread at Feministe, that’s not a kitschy and ironic use of racist imagery. If that were actually the point, the purpose of the images, OMG, that would not make it okay.
The use of images of scary black native men to convey a sense of danger is a blatantly RACIST use of racist imagery, wherein the racist message is the point. Offensive. Very, very offensive. And in reflecting that racist message, it perpetuates it.
Amanda’s not defending those images that way. It would be nice if her readers didn’t either.
Well done, Amanda.
Everyone makes mistakes; it’s when we realize it was preventable and hurt others that a choice has to be made- do we ignore it quietly, as not to make the situation worse, or speak up? I think you made the correct choice.
brian, I think that Seal’s post is enlightening as to what happened.
brianb99c April 25, 2008 at 3:23 pm
But what are you going to do? Native Americans on the war path? Drunken Hells Angels? I guess we have to go with the little aliens from the cinematic triumph Mars Attacks! I say judge the author on the whole body of work, not a few illustrations.
… ripping out entire set, getting new series of illustration, hopefully match and artistically coherent, see legal department if it’s clear. If not return to step one. ..maybe.
…and people wonder why nobody makes money on books anymore.
“But what are you going to do? Native Americans on the war path? Drunken Hells Angels? I guess we have to go with the little aliens from the cinematic triumph Mars Attacks!”
Nazis are just about the only safe target - as long as they are a pure evil target with no examination of anything that might behind their “cause”, or cause anyone to realize they were (obviously sick) people.
Other than that, there’s not much…
OTOH, I watched Star Wars: Episode 1 on Spike (sorry!) last weekend, and all I could see were all of the racist proxy images spread throughout, starting with Jar Jar Binks and going downhill from there. It was worse than I remembered…
Thankyou. And a straighforward apology, too.
Is there any word on whether the already-printed books will be recalled?
Just FYI - I just visited the amazon.com page for the book adn a number of people are leaving 1 star reviews based upon the issue with the illustrations vs. content of the book.
Just sayin’
Good for you, Amanda. It takes a lot of courage to own up to one’s mistakes.
Perhaps there’s one useful thing that’s come of this: namely, it can serve as reminder (to people who need such a reminder–i.e., white people like me) of how ingrained, and hence possible to overlook, racist iconography remains in our culture.
Although I hadn’t seen the illustrations until they were documented at feministe, I have the sinking suspicion that had I seen them in the context of the book, I wouldn’t have been troubled by their racist import. If I thought about it at all, I’d probably have seen it is a legitimate use of irony or camp reappropriation. Whereas if the imagery had involved different but equally offensive stereotypes (say, where the people the protagonist is facing down are drunk Irishmen or Shylock-esque Jews), I’m sure I would have thought: what the f are they thinking, to use these images as representations of a generic “inhospitable environment”?
Dude, if you really want to scare people, you should put pictures of Jerry Falwell and those creepy anti-choice guys on the chapter headings. Antonin Scalia works, too.
The reprint will have no have illustrations inside the book, I do believe. It’s going to 2nd printing right now, so that’s the simplest way to fix it.
Antonin Scalia works, too.
http://img1.picturewizard.com/1326728/0/Scalia.jpg
I watched Star Wars: Episode 1 on Spike (sorry!) last weekend, and all I could see were all of the racist proxy images spread throughout, starting with Jar Jar Binks and going downhill from there. It was worse than I remembered…
OT, but I’ve been wanting to rant about it to fellow feminists for a while:
Here in NY there’s a subway ad for Spike’s airing of the holy trilogy/ies which depicts Princess Leia in the gold bikini, bound by the neck, with the caption “Because Gold Bikinis Never Go Out Of Style”.
Seeing that really made clear the fact that Leia is basically Jabba the Hut’s rape-slave. It also put the fetishization of Carrie Fisher in that scene in a whole new light for me, it being the only part of the three films where Leia is depicted as a victim, or even particularly sexualized.
Dearest Amanda,
You do not “suck”.
In fact, I think you are totally awesome.
I didn’t even see the racism in the pictures either. I read Twisty’s post about the whole BFP-Seal Press-Amanda thing yesterday and I was really struck at the time by Twisty’s point about when you are a member of the privileged group, even if you are a person who actively struggles *against* benefitting from the situation, you still benefit. I was struck by it in the abstract, though. Today, I was struck by it in the particular. I really, really didn’t see the racism til it was pointed out to me. THEN I saw it, oh boy did I see it! and I was so ashamed of my blindness. It’s amazing how, if you don’t do it and don’t see it, you don’t know that it happens…lot like some of the guys discussing the whole Open Source Boob crap, who haven’t ever done it and nobody’s asked to grope THEIRS so..! We don’t wanna be those guys, eh?
I have Amanda’s book on reserve at Borders and I’m going to ask them to hold my copy and exchange it for a second printing when that comes out.
God, Ugly in Pink, did you have to do that to me? I was hetero before that picture.
I hope, Amanda, that you will take this and the last month’s events as impetus to examine your privilege and prejudices. If we’re serious about feminism being for all women, we white feminists need to accept that racism is just as entrenched in the feminist movement as it is in the larger society, and accept our responsibility to change that.
Good for you for being able to apologize so graciously. And the trolls here and elsewhere “defending” your “right” to be racially insensitive are really grossing me out. That’s no kind of defense I would want.
I aim to please (lesbians)!
Aha! The gay agenda! I see what you did there.
Just ordered my copy.
This lurker is happy to see this post.
You didn’t do anything wrong.
Context is important.
The images would have a racist message if used with a racist text.
The images don’t have a racist message in the context of “It’s A Jungle Out There.”
Indeed, white privilege is deeply rooted. It takes concerted effort to sensitize oneself (if one is white, that is) to recognize it, both in oneself and in the world around one. Hell, my husband and son are Asian, and sometimes I forget they’re not white like me.
It does take vigilance to remember that not everyone has the same background assumptions and experiences I have.
The images don’t have a racist message in the context of “It’s A Jungle Out There.”
Only if you assume that the jungle is, in fact, filled with black cannibals who will attack you.
Seriously, did you actually look at the pictures? They were going for irony, but it really, really didn’t work.
Thanks, Amanda. I got my copy in the post last week and was startled by the illustrations.
I like all the words though, and I hope you write another one soon.
Amanda, I’m sorry that your first book had such a bumpy beginning. I look forward to reading the new version as I have enjoyed reading all your bloggings in the past.
Context IS important. The context of this book’s title underscores the racism of the images. I wrote on feministe:
I don’t find the images problematically sexist in the context in which they are presented.
However, as Holly says, “I cannot automatically extend that same benefit of the doubt to a feminist book’s take on racism and use of racist images.”
Particularly because of the book’s heading “It’s a Jungle Out There” which implies that what feminists must fight is whatever is represented as being the enemy in the jungle. Crocodiles? Okay. Although one can still make the argument that using colonialism/expansionism as the underpinning for a metaphor to describe the “battles” of feminism is inherently problematic (as kiki makes). But racistly depicted indigenous peoples? This clearly crosses the line. It suggests that what feminists need to conquer is dark people; it reinforces the displacement of white male patriarchy onto brown men, a dynamic we see as clearly politically relevant in current events where white men’s patriarchal leanings are depicted as less bad and pervasive than those of looming outsider brown men. (Be glad for our {purity balls, polygamous rape farms, lack of representation for white women and WOC in government, enablement-through-war of the rape and murder of hundreds of thousands of brown women}, at least they aren’t {machismo, brown men raping white women, mandatory headscarves, etc.})
The context of the book and its title itself underscores — not ironicizes — the problematic racism of these images.
Thank you, Amanda. I am sure this was difficult to write, and yet it was absolutely necessary. I am delighted that a new edition without these images will be forthcoming soon. Brava to you, and to Seal, for moving so quickly and unequivocally on this.
Oh my Eric Jaffa, this is not a good time for that. No more gasoline on the fire please. Splitting hairs over whether the images are merely racist imagery or convey racist intent is not a swell idea, especially when Amanda herself is apologizing.
This is an adult and mature apology. That about sums it up. Saying “I’m sorry” without ifs ands or buts is as difficult as it gets.
Hopefully this thread won’t get “pretty intense.”
Oh, heh, I didn’t already post what I thought I had.
This apology is great. I remain really excited to read the book!
I remember the kerfuffle with the first cover design. Seeing some of the interior art, yeah, it’s kind of the same issues all over again.
my thoughts remain the same. it’s a shame that this would distract anyone from the actual content of the book, and yeah, better to just ditch the cheeky images altogether than to let this become a distraction.
perhaps better would be lifting diagrams from a Jungle Survival US Army manual: escaping from quicksand, removing leeches, a sectional diagram of the dreaded Candiru, instructions on staring down something from genus Panthera.
Seriously, people. The woman was good enough to acknowledge her mistake and apologize, so stop trying to take that from her.
Eric Jaffa April 25, 2008 at 4:06 pm
The images don’t have a racist message in the context of “It’s A Jungle Out There.”
no, the images themselves are pretty self explanatory. They are pretty bad. It’s racism/colonialism.
But my reaction is more: yeah, that was really dumb. *roll eyes* Otherwise the text is fighting a good cause, and that’s the main thing. They redo the entire set because of that anyway. The book is fun.
Next book would have tons of material to tackle, for sure.
By “people” I mean “willfully blind racism-defenders.”
Amanda,
I’m glad that you’ve apologized for the imagery. I’m still looking forward to reading the book - I’ve had like eighteen incidents in the past couple months where I’ve thought, “I should email Amanda about this. Does this happen to everyone in the South? Maybe she wrote about it in that book of hers!”
So I’ll order a copy, hoping that lessons have been learned all around. I’m sure many of your readers (myself included) have been duly reminded of white privilege and latent racism, and our responsibility to aid in their elimination.
Amanda - you are an inspiration. Thank you for the book (which IS great!) and for the apology too. I have much to learn, including how to expand my critical eye.
karpad April 25, 2008 at 4:31 pm
perhaps better would be lifting diagrams from a Jungle Survival US Army manual: escaping from quicksand, removing leeches, a sectional diagram of the dreaded Candiru, instructions on staring down something from genus Panthera.
argh..no. those sketches are so ugly and boring.
there GOT TO be some feminist illustrator looking for some work right? Come on… (I love nice illustration. I like looking at pictures.)
Third edition maybe? with expanded comment?
Whenever I say something “anti-white”—usually in response to something, shall we say, “pro-white”—I always end up holding my forearm up in front of my eyes, pinching the skin on that forearm, and saying: Crap! Dammit! I’m white!
I consider it a saving grace that I have some Tsalagi blood inside me.
But that “white” part truly irks me.
What to do? What to do?
Great post. Still looking forward to my copy’s arrival and reading your book!
Hmmmm… i can’t seem to find the pix on the inside of the book posted on the web. Anybody got a link?
Now, if people were upset about the COVER, it’s “get a fucking life” time. HUMOR, what a concept. Something conspicuously in shortage over at Feministe, IMO.
Apart from the pictures, I totally loved your book - it made me cry with laughter in parts! I’m glad to hear it will now be printed without the offensive images. Keep doing what you’re doing!
Do you mean it?
When you’re sorry for the racist imagery that your book capitalizes on, that will make you money, does it make you pause and consider the other ways in which you, as a beneficiary of white privilege, may have allowed or perpetrated racism? It’s really easy to apologize for something when it’s obvious - but so many people stop at the obvious and never move on to self-reflection.
So. Do you mean it?
Eric, there are links over at Feministe. I’d put one here but I’m really hoping we can get past this incident…
O si yo, invisible. same here.
It’s a good day to die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKTaN-HtRk8
I want nice illustrations …I love pictures …waaa…… Come on feminist artists.
if people were upset about the COVER, it’s “get a fucking life” time.
That’s what I thought before I clicked over to the post at Feministe. I was kind of like, Goddamn, NOW WHAT??!!11!
glass to see you addressed this, AM. Your post is much better Seal’s attempt at an apology.
It’s good that you’ve admitted to this one and apologised. I hope this doesn’t sound patronising, but I think that the way this incident occurred - through complete blindness by everyone involved - underlines the way racism plays an unintended, but very real part in editorial decisions; could both you and Seal Press see how that extends to recent WOC complaints about both your writing and their publishing, and cop to the whole phenomena as well as just this one incident?
Eric,
The most problematic images are here: http://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/update/
Thanks Amanda.
I’m a fan of campy retro images myself, and if it had been me, I don’t know that I’d have seen the images as anything but silly outdated concepts, or thought about their potential to offend. Something for me to think about, I guess.
I’m waiting to buy it until it’s released up here in Canada (want to shop local). But I’m looking forward to reading it.
I agree. Excellent apology; well written and evidently sincere.
that will make you money, does it make you pause and consider the other ways in which you, as a beneficiary of white privilege, may have allowed or perpetrated racism?
Oh, look, here we are back at “get a fucking life”.
I work for a TV show that perpetuates a lot of racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc. stereotypes. From time to time, I have considered quitting (and it’s always possible that someday a line will be crossed and I really will).
I take it upon myself to point out the bigotry when I see it, but since I’m not the executive producer of the show or anything, it often doesn’t get changed.
So I guess you could say I make money from racism, sexism, etc. But then again, I have to eat. There are precious few jobs that come completely free of the hatred that is completely and totally ingrained in our culture. And in the media? Good luck with that…
Oh, and irony of ironies, it is mainly the lily-white, well-connected, and trust-fund-bearing (PRIVILEGED) ones among us who have access to said jobs, because they tend not to pay much. People who lack privilege in a variety of ways have to deal with this a lot more, because they have less access to money and connections, and less freedom to leave a job or change careers. Less power within their fields. Not to mention being scoffed at simply because you are a woman or a person of color or a lesbian (or what the fuck ever) for speaking up in the first place.
So, sorry, the idea that having to reconcile oneself with career-related racism/sexism/homophobia/whatever that is outside one’s control doesn’t actually correlate to how privileged you are, sorry.
There are some in that very first link in Amanda’s post. And, yeah, the pictures in question are worthy of inclusion with Superdickery’s Propaganda Extravaganza comic book covers, except that Superdickery is actually presenting their images as being in bad taste.
You are taking quite a bit of heat from some of the commenters at Shakesville. Melissa hasn’t weighed in yet, but very few people seem ready to disown you. Live and learn and move on.
Yay Amanda! I will read your book this weekend, but I am glad you’ve cleared the air and agree with many others that your statement was thoughtful and brave. It takes a lot more courage to do this than to rip people apart anonymously.
It’s definitely ‘collectible’ item now… heh.
This is really interesting.
Can we collectively prove that at least one thread on this topic doesn’t have to devolve into people bludgeoning each other?
Excuse me? White priviledged? Did I choose to be born to a white couple in a 1st world country? No. Did that little girl you saw on the news choose to be born to a “black” couple in a 3rd world country? No.
That’s all I have to say.
Hey, squashed is right! I have a racist copy of Amanda Marcotte’s first book! Now all I need to do is get it signed and I am going to be a millionaire when we get old!
You’re obviously trying to do the right thing, and I’m glad. But it’s still not clear to me, after the whole gorilla cover incident, why the images weren’t obviously a problem to you or anyone else who saw them pre-publication.
When we tell men to “do their own homework” about male privilege, we sometimes leave them puzzled or angry because they don’t know anyone to explain it to them personally.
As we all know, that doesn’t mean every feminist has as her/his job to explain feminism to everyone who doesn’t get it. But it does mean they’re still stuck in ignorance so long as they don’t push themselves out of their comfort zone.
It looks like you’re getting that end of the stick now. Reminding yourself of it with a couple of pieces of paper out of your book is probably not enough.
A quick parallel: People don’t learn to speak a language by listening. They learn by speaking it and making mistakes. You learned feminism by speaking it. You’ll have to learn real racial equality by speaking it, too. Not by just learning “what to avoid,” ‘cos clearly that didn’t work.
Can we collectively prove that at least one thread on this topic doesn’t have to devolve into people bludgeoning each other?
Yeah, sorry.
It’s just that the whole “…and you have the nerve to make money from this?!” angle really bugs me.
Foucault April 25, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Hey, squashed is right! I have a racist copy of Amanda Marcotte’s first book! Now all I need to do is get it signed and I am going to be a millionaire when we get old!
look. man, you are not seeing this right. If she ever run for president 20 yrs from now…
You’d be rich! There is a special spot in ebay I already claim. So it is now in my interest for Amanda to get insanely famous or rich, then run for president.
.. then. Ka–ching!
I think I have to run my own viral promo, to make this scheme fly.
I can’t resist the irony. Is that what you call it?
I sang this song with my 4 year old grand-daughter the other day. She blew me away with the mispronunciations and the accusation that I didn’t know all the words.
She was right. Her heartfelt solo had me “remembering”, though.
Apology accepted.
Sorry. The song: God Bless America.
Forgive a dumbass.
the opoponax:
What. What? You think privileged people, as a group, are MORE likely to take low-paying jobs? That’s absurd: privileged people do their damndest to keep hold of their privilege. That’s why men earn more than women and occupy the vast majority of all boardroom seats, while corralling women in the Five Cs, remember?
Thene April 25, 2008 at 5:35 pm
What. What? You think privileged people, as a group, are MORE likely to take low-paying jobs? That’s absurd: privileged people do their damndest to keep hold of their privilege. That’s why men earn more than women and occupy the vast majority of all boardroom seats, while corralling women in the Five Cs, remember?
this is the part I usually say, shove that theory where sun doesn’t shine. It makes no sense
the end logic of your statement would be : a) Amanda is making tons of dough out of this book. b) total and complete white male domination toolz c) Amanda helps oppressing women.
Hey. everybody knows I made a lot of dubious statements and theory, but even I can’t come up with those without giggling. (Who’d gonna believe THAT?)
Come on, srsly. That’s some serious stuff yer smoking ….
tho’ I wonder how far I can get saying Amanda is the woman oppressor.
Burning Prairie,
I think I’ve seen you before, somewhere.
Thene said: “… through complete blindness by everyone involved …”
“Complete blindness” does not describe whoever at Seal Press initially approved of these illustrations, despite Seal Press’s apology (’we were not thinking’). When publishers select “retro” racist imagery as supposedly “ironic” humor in order to make a text more marketable, such publishers are consciously targeting those elements of a white audience who would see “retro” racist imagery as “ironically” humorous, i.e., the publishers are consciously targeting white racists, whether or not such an audience is aware of its own racism. African-Americans in particular do not find “retro” racist imagery “ironic” or humorous because they can attest from their own experience that white racism is still ongoing. So Seal Press, in selecting these illustrations for their “ironically” humorous appeal, was consciously targeting a white racist audience (unconsciously racist or otherwise) to the exclusion of an African-American audience, presumably in the belief that a white audience would include more purchasers with the disposable income to buy this book and that appealing to conscious/unconscious white racism through “ironic” humor would be the quickest way to increase sales to a white audience.
To increase sales by appealing to a target audience’s worst instincts (i.e., their anxieties) has been a standard strategy of retailers and advertisers since at least the 1920s.
I note Amanda Marcotte’s apology and I’ll assume that she herself was not aware of the strategy behind the publisher’s selection of this “ironic” racist imagery. But the explanation by Seal Press that they “were not thinking” does not wash. Seal Press was thinking very hard indeed when they selected this imagery. But this time they were caught on it.
My long-winded comment is meant as an explanation to other commenters here who think these illustrations are simply innocuously “ironic” humor to which some readers are over-reacting, or that Seal Press was simply blindsided by its own insensitivity. In fact, these illustrations are not innocuous and Seal Press was not merely insensitive. Seal Press was being extremely sensitive indeed, but to the wrong audience. Consumers need to stay aware of that.
I’m an African American woman and I am not offended. Having read the explanations, though, I can understand why some others are offended, but I’m still not. I’ve read this blog for two years now, I didn’t think anything of it.
But I am glad the images will be removed so that the message of her book can be received.
I didn’t say it before, but I’ll say it now: Congrats on the book, Amanda.
My point really had very little to do with money and more to do with self-examination, but everyone feel free to tell me that Amanda wasn’t writing this book for profit, but rather out of of the noble feminist proselytizing goodness of her heart. My daddy wrote a book that made no money too, but it still helped him get a better job down the damn road. So whatever. I’ve heard the argument, but color me skeptical.
But really - apologizing for the obvious is easy. This is obvious, much as the gorilla cover was obvious. I am unconvinced that AM has learned anything from this debacle, except maybe that defending one’s own racism makes people angry, so it’s best to apologize before they come with the torches and pitchforks. That’s not exactly groundbreaking.
You’re obviously trying to do the right thing, and I’m glad. But it’s still not clear to me, after the whole gorilla cover incident, why the images weren’t obviously a problem to you or anyone else who saw them pre-publication.
If nothing is ever enough, why should anyone try?
I’m also curious how I can get my own thought police credentials.
Pre-print runs are just what this is supposed to catch. You get to see the book as it will print. Illustrations and warts in all their glory. Not to be confused with a ‘galley proof’.
Still though, if it was supposed to be comedic, then what’s the problem?
Women all seem to think they are ‘Jane’ and able to swing from trees and handle the world by the balls. Yes it reinforces the ‘have cleavage will travel’ idea but it does help in foreign countries sometimes.
Now if the book wasn’t meant as comic in any way, well, there be a problem then…
But you can’t please all the people half the time so you have to be careful.
Hell, I was one third watching some movie on IFC last night and I look up and see full frontal female nudity. No big deal. Well, after a few minutes the guy is on a chair and then it’s full frontal male nudity with his flapper flapping in the wind. Well, and then it’s the flapper meeting the female naughty bits and wow. What the hell was I almost watching.
The wife accuses me this morning of ‘making her watch hard core foreign porn’ last night… HUH! I wasn’t even watching it. Somethings you just never know… It made me slightly uncomfortable but then in America, how many times do you see full frontal female nudity and well full male nudity in the same movie and not in a greasy porn palace. ICK…
Whatever…
You can’t please half the people so why try. She normally likes a little beefcake in movies… To much beef and not enough cake?
Still, pre-print samples are probably mandatory and it sounds like that printer has punked people before…
(M-I-L wrote a book. The publisher tossed all her graphics. She got a pre-print sample and nearly had a cow on the spot. Demanded they changed the horrid graphics and hers made it back in as if by magic. Strange how the publishing biz works…)
Never trust anyone with your work. You are the better judge of what it should and more importantly shouldn’t look like…
No one will watch your back better than you…
Sorry if I added to much in the prior post…
Amanda,
I’m a little disturbed by how much close to an echo chamber this thread seems to be. I appreciate the apology and must join in the d’oh chorus as a white feminist who has a hell of a lot to learn. In trans activism, where I spend a lot of of my time, we are pretty hard on allies. We expect a lot, and we give very little by way of pats on the head for acknowledging cis-privilege. In this context I think it is important to note that trans activism tends to be pretty white and college-educated. Interesting how white-led movements can demand more from allies and get it, isn’t it?
The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t think you or I or other white feminists should get cookies just for saying sorry, no matter how much we mean it. And all these (mostly white, I’m guessing) people are giving you cookies by buying your book now. What a benefit to you and all you had to do was say “sorry.” But how does it actually help feminist POC? The proof is in the doing, not the feeling bad. I am trying really hard to be kind here, b/c I have great respect for you and credit you as one of the few primary voices of my early feminist education. But education, self-education, is where I think you need to go right now. I’m honestly very scared to confront my own racism. I know my foot’s gonna go in my mouth way more times than I want to think about. But I’ve been inching into it b/c I know it needs done, b/c it’s what I’m demanding from others in other arenas, and I better not be a hypocrite when I speak from my own authority on things I do know and tell people that they need to figure it out. I hope that there is action behind these words. Thank you.
You’re not sorry.
This was pointed out to you well over a year ago. And what did you do? You laughed. You mocked. You ignored.
Anybody who buys your apology is a fool.
“Still though, if it was supposed to be comedic, then what’s the problem?”
Implying that feminists will win equality by conquering scary black men is not funny? Just a guess, that. It could also be that everyone except privileged white men has no sense of humor, damn it.
Thank you for posting this. Yours was the first feminist blog I started reading, and it pained me to see the latest controversy and it pained me to see the pileup.
Wow, that sucks. No way anyone who actually reads this blog could think you have a racist bone in your body.
Still kind of ironic that you tried to write a book to disprove the stereotype that feminists have no sense of humor and you end up getting crucified by feminists with no sense of humor.
If nothing is ever enough, why should anyone try?
How about because it’s the right thing to do?
If you wrong someone, you apologize. Whether or not they accept your apology — and they have every right not to — you still apologize.
Because it’s the least you can do.
Thene, I want to point out that opponax wasn’t talking about all low-paying jobs. They were talking about low-paying jobs in the entertainment industry. The movie/tv business is almost completely populated by white people with trust funds or other sources of income and one of the reasons is that to get into the business requires working for very low (or no) pay and very long hours (in jobs that people line up to get). Aspiring writers and directors often don’t work at all and are not paid for the work they do. This makes it a pretty privileged group.
Wow, that sucks. No way anyone who actually reads this blog could think you have a racist bone in your body.
Really. Not a bone? Not a bit? Not even in the foot, not even a delicate metatarsal of racism, or a thin vein running through the body?
Gimme a break, Mr. My Dog. White privilege displays itself as racism. Or do you ignore the existence of white privilege?
invisible-I comment a lot over at Shakesville.
Brooklynite April 25, 2008 at 6:07 pm
If you wrong someone, you apologize.
except this is not “someone” it’s a concept of ethnicity. Represented by several people. The whole dynamic is delicate and consists of a lot of mis-understanding.
I tell you what. List what you want Amanda to apologize! I DARE YOU.
I can deconstruct it to anything I want. You demand racial harmony out of this exercise right? Now I want to see what you gonna have to say …
I guarantee you, you’ll get tangled really deep in confusion.
invisible-I comment a lot over at Shakesville.
Burning-I no longer go there.
I’m a little disturbed by how much close to an echo chamber this thread seems to be.
Em, I think it might be because people are shell-shocked from the past few days. No one wants to feel like they’re kicking someone while they’re down. I can think of many productive discussions we need to have. Soon. But I know I’m in no kind of headspace to do it today.
FWIW, I didn’t decide to buy the book because she apologized.
Amanda, I’m glad you apologized. As someone who has gotten great joy from your writing for however long now (and has been wishing you success in your efforts to succeed in a very competitive field) I’ve been… well, I guess distraught is the best word for it, over the past few weeks, as Victorian as that sounds. If I had a fainting couch, I might have made use of it.
I hope that we can all find a way through this mess.
I just wanted to quote that for emphasis.
Also, I suspect many of the harsher critics are staying away on purpose.
Aw, hell. I might as well put my cards on the table.
Amanda Marcotte, I’m just about through with Pandagon because of the BFP-Seal Press-Jungle Images fiasco. I don’t think you’ve behaved very well, and I figure that in the bloggotubosphere actions speak louder than words in the particular sense that as someone without her own blog and who wasn’t going to buy your book anyway (no offense, but you ain’t exactly Molly Ivins), the best thing I can do to “punish” you for behavior I disapprove of, in hopes of causing you to change via incentives, would be to boycott your blog - reduce your readership, and therefore your influence - until I see some proof that you’ve actually learned something, not to mention had a change of heart.
And here’s what I consider learning something:
1. Going back and addressing the BFP scandal properly and thoughtfully on your own blog, and really thinking about the charges laid against you by all kinds of feminists, not to mention other RWOC who identify by other terms.
2. Not publishing with Seal Press any longer. I assume you will write more books in the future, since that’s how you make your living, and hopefully by now you’ve realized, 1, Seal Press isn’t very good at picking up on their own racism, and neither are you; 2, if you want to improve on that, you should probably try publishing with somebody who’s smarter than you about this; and 3, Seal Press doesn’t look a whole lot better than you do, right now, so it’d be a nice symbolic step to show that you really, really want to change.
3. Just generally showing a level of thoughtfulness about intersectionality before Nicolas Kristoff or the lawyers of the ACLU decide that issues facing POC are important.
and a bunch of other things I’m sure you can think of more easily than me.
I’m signing off now to begin punitive boycott, effective now. Just doing my part on the intertubes.
Alexandra April 25, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Gimme a break, Mr. My Dog. White privilege displays itself as racism. Or do you ignore the existence of white privilege?
nope. A couple dumb mistakes maybe.
But throughout period of time and Pandagon blog archive shows, she has put effort. Several difficult race issues. It’s easy making blurb on comments during slow weekend day. Try doing it on long term blogging program! That takes effort and commitment.
Making asshat general comment is easy. But trying doing it over period of time and learning something.
What have YOU done? Show me.
Alexandra April 25, 2008 at 6:20 pm
the best thing I can do to “punish” you for behavior I disapprove of, in hopes of causing you to change via incentives, would be to boycott your blog - reduce your readership, and therefore your influence - until I see some proof that you’ve actually learned something, not to mention had a change of heart.
yahhh….kinda idle threat if you don’t own big blog. I mean, I can bring blog connections too, big friggin deal. Name your size, I’ll try to match it.
Em, I know you didn’t mean to sound this way but … if an apology for a specific action is not good enough because it doesn’t help a group of people, what’s the point of apologizing?
I actually think this is a big problem with our society as a whole, though. I’m not sure if it’s because we’ve heard a lot of insincere apologies or if it’s just our good old American assholery, but we (speaking as an entire nation) have made it virtually impossible for people to apologize for something and move on.
I think that this specific issue of the images in the book really only requires the apology and the promise to be less dense in the future. The rest of it is a separate issue that needs to be addressed separately, though I know people are trying to fuse them together.
“I demand you stop everything Right Now, including readings, signings, eating, sleeping, travel, and any other thing up to and including taking a shit, so you can address my concerns in detail. You will do this without taking any time for reflection, introspection, discussion with people whose opinions you trust, or any of the other things an actual human being might find helpful when smacked in the face with a humbling realization. I will not tell you in any useful detail what my concerns are, keeping at least some in reserve against the possible need to pounce on you again. If the patriarchy is not utterly destroyed within 12 hours of your response, I will smear you all over the internet.”
Amanda, I loved your book. Period. I’m sorry Seal Press chose such offensive imagery. And really, those pages were just an onstacle to reading your hilarious book.
“The best thing I can do to “punish” you for behavior I disapprove of, in hopes of causing you to change via incentives, would be to boycott your blog - reduce your readership, and therefore your influence - until I see some proof that you’ve actually learned something, not to mention had a change of heart.”
You’ll recognize Amanda at the next reading because she’ll be the one wearing a hair shirt and flagellating herself with whips and a ball in her mouth.
I hope Alexandra is not a MOC (mother of color) because she sounds like a real piece of work.
Don’t let the door hit you, as they say…:)
This is something I’ve been thinking a lot about recently: the realm of public apology. And I think that generally speaking it should become a rule of public discourse: to request an apology from a public figure should require that the terms of that apology, and/or penitent actions, be specific, enumerated, and published. Otherwise, you can just give infinite crap to someone by moving the goalpoasts each time they try to apologize. So I pose this as a question (without any of the insulting tenor I may have implied above). Those who feel Amanda has not sufficiently atoned for her actions, what would you like her to do?
Squashed, don’t go picking a fight with me. I’m not in the mood.
If Amanda did nothing to apologize for, if she wronged no one, she shouldn’t apologize. That wasn’t Hector’s claim, though, and it wasn’t what I was responding to.
Hector said that if your apology isn’t going to be accepted as enough, you shouldn’t offer it. I say that’s bunk. I say if you do someone wrong, you should, at a minimum, apologize, even if that apology won’t be accepted as “enough.” Even if you know that apology won’t be accepted as enough. You apologize, and then you figure out what else you need to do to make things right.
An apology given does not impose any obligation on the receiver. An apology is not a negotiating tactic. It is not a chit.
But that’s just me. How were you raised?
Brooklynite:
I think Squashed was responding to the impression that I got from a couple different comments, that there was something Amanda should do, not merely say, to demonstrate that she truly had no intent to profit from/encourage/allow racism.
Brooklynite April 25, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Squashed, don’t go picking a fight with me. I’m not in the mood.
did I ask about your mood? keep it real.
you ask for apology, LIST specifically your demand.
You are blustering, because you KNOW EXACTLY, where this gonna lead. Nowhere.
Just commenting briefly to clarify — I’m white. I’m not a woman of color. I got white privilege. I benefit from it. Sometimes I do and say stupid racist things. As someone who is white and is working on being a decent, anti-racist human being, I feel it’s important for me to call out other white women. I do this because it’s the right thing and it’s the least I can do.
But whoever commented about how you hope I don’t have kids — damn, quit with the ad feminam attacks, man. That’s just nasty. Not to mention the speculation about my sex-and-sprog life.
Brooklynite April 25, 2008 at 6:46 pm
An apology given does not impose any obligation on the receiver. An apology is not a negotiating tactic. It is not a chit.
who you speaking for? yourself? black men? Black? entire minority?
You can’t even spell out your own personal demand, let alone speaking for entire race.
So, I for one am suspicious, you really don’t know what you are asking. I am curious, slightly annoyed, and wondering.
“Just commenting briefly to clarify — I’m white. I’m not a woman of color. I got white privilege. I benefit from it. Sometimes I do and say stupid racist things.”
That explains a WHOLE freaking lot right there.
Alexandra April 25, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I do this because it’s the right thing and it’s the least I can do.
How you gonna “reduce” a blog influence if you don’t own a big blog? lol. I want to now that. Everything else you say doesn’t matter right? Who cares if you are right or wrong if you can’t carry out your threat.
From what I notice, because of some stupid thing Amanda did with her WP. This blog is pretty impervious to standard blogging attack.
But maybe you know some big tricks that hasn’t been around. …
just wondering, how you gonna carry out your threat. I mean, how big is your blog anyway? you know… want to know if you are keeping it real or not.
So I wasn’t going to comment on this post when I was linked to it (primarily because I was expecting the comments to be an echo chamber) but I can’t quite manage to keep my mouth shut after reading some of things people have said in response to your apology.
For those that don’t know I’m the guest blogger at ABW that wrote Seal Press, Amanda Marcotte…Proof That Feminism And Racism Go Hand In Hand and I’m starting to get some less than pleasant feedback to my post that’s all about telling me just how mean I am to say the things I’m saying.
And yet as I look around this blog and look at the responses to the post last year about the original cover art for the book I am absolutely and utterly convinced that the racism in feminism isn’t being challenged or identified anywhere near often enough. The wealth of privilege I see in the idea that Amanda should not have to face any anger for not speaking up about the images (or for mocking those that first tried to call out the racism in the original cover art) is almost staggering.
Where exactly is the outrage that WOC are dealing with racism inside the very movement that’s supposed to be welcoming us? Where is the acknowledgement that WOC are not having the same experience as white women? Or the recognition that white privilege is a blanket that covers white women too? Oh wait, I know what’s happening here, I slipped up and believed the hype about sisterhood and solidarity when the truth is that feminism was never really for or about WOC. It’s all about white women having the right to be oppressors too. Don’t believe me? Just look at the art that Amanda found ironic and Seal Press thought was a perfect fit for her book.
I’m sorry that I don’t have time to read all 98 (thus far) comments so maybe this has already been brought up, but…
When the cover was being criticized as racist, this is how you responded to those criticisms in the comment thread:
Feminists critiqued the racist imagery on the original cover (which was similiar, but not identical to critiques of the images inside) long before the book was published, and you called that “joy-killing”.How can anyone take this apology seriously knowing that??
I’m having a lot of trouble figuring out exactly what’s being discussed at this point in the thread.
Squashed, I didn’t demand an apology, or reject this one. That’s the first thing. I’m not black. That’s the second thing.
Other than that, though, your interrogation of my demand for an apology on the basis of my blackness is pretty much spot on.
I’m going to drop this now, I think. There’s nothing to be gained from semantic squabbling in this particular thread.
Karnythia April 25, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Where exactly is the outrage that WOC are dealing with racism inside the very movement that’s supposed to be welcoming us? Where is the acknowledgement that WOC are not having the same experience as white women?
but in term of exposure and issues that has been brought up to public attention, the “book cover” is pretty small. I estimate about 40-80K unique impression.
On the other hand if you dig around pandagon archive, the amount of race issues that has been brought up can easily reach 500K to 1M impression.
So, then the question: how many books do you think has been sold? a couple hundreds?
Basically, you are ignoring a couple hundred K’s impression that deals with race issue and getting angry about things over few K.
HOW BIG is YOUR BLOG? (translation: I bet there are a lot more post here reaching MORE people and bringing about racial issue than you EVER can muster online.)
I try to see what blog size you have. It’s not even a bleep. Small and insignificant. (so on balance, tackling racial issue, I can ignore what you have done as trivial compared to pandagon archive)
Brooklynite April 25, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Squashed, I didn’t demand an apology, or reject this one. That’s the first thing. I’m not black. That’s the second thing.
STFU. then. I demand as non white person. Cause you don’t know what the hell you are yapping about.
“The wealth of privilege I see in the idea that Amanda should not have to face any anger for not speaking up about the images (or for mocking those that first tried to call out the racism in the original cover art) is almost staggering.”
Hi Karnythia,
I cited your quote here earlier as one of the attacks on Amanda that bothered me–because I thought it had not yet been established that Amanda (a feminist) equals a racist. I wanted to hear her side of the story. But I don’t think your post was nearly as “mean” as some of the other stuff I read today. It was your opinion, and that’s how you felt.
In listening to your side (the side of many women of color and their white friends) on Feministe, I could hear your anger and frustration. I heard pain and frustration and anger especially in BFP’s post, about how she felt dismissed and left to fend for herself, “JUST DO IT SPICS, JUST DO IT.”
Actually, that line brings tears to my eyes, and I am not a very sentimental person. I don’t know the history of that controversy, but it sounds like BFP has good reasons to be angry at *someone.* I don’t know enough to understand if she has good reasons to be angry at Amanda.
But I think it is good to feel angry and to voice anger until you get it out of your system. For this reason, I was especially sad that BFP left the blogosphere because she sounded like a pissed off person with a purpose, and that is often quite rare. But I just wanted to apologize if I made it sound in quoting you that you should be quiet, or not be as angry.
Karnythia April 25, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Here is a big STFU. Count how many feminism blog make post about Hillary’s race baiting or supporting Obama.
This not to mention outright racism by a lot of feminism blog.
Think about that. You can pumping yourself up over the illustration. But I guarantee you, you don’t know what the hell you are doing except doing pile drive.
(this is serious, because there is massive blog war pulled by Hills team. )
Wow, Amanda, you should be really proud of the Pandagon audience you have cultivated. Some of these flippant and dismissive comments about people *daring* to take issue with those images or needing to get a life…enjoy this fan base you have created for yourself, I think you have reached “Wonkette” status now.
invisible-oh. why not if you don’t mind me asking.
I just want to point out that it is *not* the responsibility of the offended to create a list of specific demands to get back in their good graces. It is never the oppressed that need to do the heavy lifting of figuring out how to mend bridges.
As a white woman I find a good rule of thumb to be imagine a similar argument coming from a man about feminism. Does it always work? No, but I do think it prevents me from making some stupid justifications for my actions. If you are confused about how to act appropriately you should educate yourself: read, attend workshops, ask questions. But dont demand anything, it is your job to figure out how to get educated and not offend.
RES: I stand corrected. This isn’t really what I’ve been thinking of, and I’ll need to reconsider my comment.
Squashed, my LJ gets a lot more readers than the people on the friends list. And I don’t just blog there or solely under this screen name. But that’s neither here nor there when it comes to the actual issue at hand. I find it very telling though how entrenched you are in attacking Amanda’s critic’s readership size and not in discussing the apology or the reason she had to make it. If all else fails I guess you’ve decided to insist that this issue doesn’t matter based on the numbers regardless of the reality that this has wider implications than just what is on the Internet today.
You’re right, but “what can I do to make things better?” is a good place for the offender to start
RES April 25, 2008 at 7:17 pm
I just want to point out that it is *not* the responsibility of the offended to create a list of specific demands to get back in their good graces. It is never the oppressed that need to do the heavy lifting of figuring out how to mend bridges.
No FUCK that shit.
I WANT to know what the hell are these people demanding. Already a white dude acting high demanding this or that, fine. But what the hell does he know about being colored?
I am personally CURIOUS, what these outrage is about. It seems to me, so far there has been a lot of white people voicing black concern like they own the scene. Then not sure what they are saying …
Well? what is it?
Squashed,
Are you just here to say rude things then? Because I’m not seeing a whole lot of critical thought in your comments or much examination of the issues. Feel free to ignore my work, I know I’ll be ignoring yours from here on out.
Amanda,
I’m not sure if you know the answer to this, but if you do: I’d like to get the book through Amazon, but would like to avoid receiving a copy of the first printing. Should I wait a bit?
Karnythia April 25, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Squashed, my LJ gets a lot more readers than the people on the friends list.
number . say the number. Words don’t mean jack. This is pure metric. (see, do you even KNOW what you are doing? Stop being reactionary. Things are pretty ugly around here lately. It’s unusual. specially when it comes to certain issue.)
“If you wrong someone, you apologize.”
Can I be a bit crass and point out that Amanda isn’t the only person in the past two weeks to have wronged someone?
I don’t see the line for the confessional. Odd.
Hell, I’ll admit I said some nasty stuff about Ilyka late last night at Hugo’s place which he thankfully deleted. Too little sleep, to much grinding old axes. Sorry Ilyka, that was stupid and out of line. Should have taken my own advice about treating people as people.
Alexandra:
If you want to stay and talk feel free. If you want to leave leave, nobody is stopping you. But please not the 3-hour speech about how you’re inching out the door or some dramatic going-away post where you make sure to get all your digs in. You seem nice enough, no harm in sticking around.
Apologizing is a first step, yes. But if you ask someone to walk a mile can you berate them the second they put the first foot down?
Karnythia:
“I also see people talking about the need to give Amanda Marcotte a safe space from which to respond.”
Those “people” were me alone, and I don’t speak for anyone but myself. I’m not even a freaking feminist. Please do not use my words to smear other people.
I’m just one guy. I am not the representation of any sort of problem with white feminists, and half the time I’m fighting with white feminists myself.
Everyone deserves a safe private space, especially among friends. That’s my philosophy. Amanda does, you do, everyone does.
“And I know I am absolutely not capable of much in the way of diplomacy or tact…”
You are one of the most diplomatic and tactful commenters I’ve seen. But this is the second time I’ve seen my comments used as some sort of supposed represenation of a viewpoint that in truth I alone am espousing.
Margalis != white feminists. Not even close.
I’m sad to say at this point that “I’m sorry” doesn’t cut it for me on this whole debacle, beginning with your unacknowledged intellectual theft from BFP and ending with this imagery in a book with your name on it. I’m simply too angry and disappointed in you to be able to read your work anymore. Unfortunately, that means that for the time being, at least, I will have to give up reading my favorite blog, but for me it’s worth it for the principle.
I am a feminist and an anti-racist ally, and both roles are equally important to me. To watch this whole thing go on without any real consequences to you, Amanda, while other people are badly hurt, actually driven off the web, infuriates me.
For now, this is goodbye.
I am glad you posted an apology about this. I’m surprised Seal Press didn’t pick up on it earlier, but I’m glad they’re apologizing too.
It’s really, really weird for me personally because the whole “Amazonian white woman vs. the savages” thing comes out just as I confirmed once and for all that one of my many Caribbean ancestors was Arawak if not Carib/Arawak and spoke the Arawak language. He had a life-changing experience almost 110 years ago to this day when he traveled down the Demerara River in Guyana. The imagery from the book is doing a number on my stomach, and I’m not sure I can offer an opinion more detailed here without blowing up. Maybe I will on my own blog. I don’t know.
I do think the whole debacle with you and BFP is a more insidious and pervasive problem than you think it is. I’m still incredibly hurt by your responses to people’s anger over that, and to mend the fences that aren’t permanently blown up, you’re going to need to step away from the blogosphere, come back when you’re not so raw and really try to assess what others have said. That includes the people who are angry.
Karnythia April 25, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Are you just here to say rude things then? Because I’m not seeing a whole lot of critical thought in your comments or much examination of the issues. Feel free to ignore my work, I know I’ll be ignoring yours from here on out.
Welcome to the internet.
If your blog is small. don’t act so big and pretending your work is significant. You are not. Nobody cares.
So then the question, what is important in term of result for this and that issue from numerical perspective. (since you can say the number, I take it you can’t say it. thus, you are making a strategic mistake. You are the one being used.)
Margalis,
You weren’t the only person I saw speaking about giving her a safe space though you were the first. And I can’t count feminism as a place that’s full of friends for WOC. This is the latest in a long string of incidents (and not just from Seal Press or Amanda) that has made feminism a very inhospitable place for WOC.
Karnythia April 25, 2008 at 7:32 pm
This is the latest in a long string of incidents (and not just from Seal Press or Amanda) that has made feminism a very inhospitable place for WOC.
this blog is an ally. pretty big one too. You have to consider your action. reverse it immediately. at least until you have seen the archive. check first!
Mnemosyne
April 25, 2008 at 6:34 pm:
“I think that this specific issue of the images in the book really only requires the apology and the promise to be less dense in the future.”
“Requires,” maybe. But there’s certainly room for more than that, and since it seems to me that Ms Marcotte’s apology and contrition are sincere, it wouldn’t at all surprise me if she were willing to do a lot more. And what better venue than on her own well-known blog?
For one thing, this is, at the very least, a “teachable moment” for a lot of us.
I’m a white male, of middle-class background — with all the unearned privilege that entails, and much of the ignorance that often accompanies a sheltered upbringing. One of the main reasons that Pandagon is on my daily-read list is that I learn what I might not so easily learn elsewhere.
So now, many of us — and people far more committed to and involved in all kinds of activism than I am — can now learn a necessary (and for some of us long overdue) lesson or three. I’ve been dimly aware for a long time that there’s been a lot of tension within the women’s movement about race and class. All the way back to the beginning, there have been accusations of historic feminism’s essential uselessness to, or outright betrayals of, women of color and women without the luxuries of a college education, let alone a pampered upbringing.
There’s lots of room for some progress to be made here, using this situation as a jumping-off point, if everyone’s willing to do the work involved.
Good. God. Squashed. Shut. The fuck. Up.
Karnythia,
I think your comments on the matter, here and at ABW (and at Heart’s for that matter), have been thought-provoking and excellent.
These are some fun comments. More than one proud white “feminists” doesn’t feel these images are racist. Amazing. This whitey wonders what planet you folks are on.
Amanda, the excuse that you didn’t catch the cartoons before now sounds a little far-fetched. I’d be more apt to believe that you just made a mistake in judgment.
Karnythia April 25, 2008 at 7:32 pm
You weren’t the only person I saw speaking about giving her a safe space though you were the first. And I can’t count feminism as a place that’s full of friends for WOC. This is the latest in a long string of incidents (and not just from Seal Press or Amanda) that has made feminism a very inhospitable place for WOC.
how to check archive insert this at the end of complete name ‘ …/2006/08/” that should bring monthly view.
very important. CHECK archive, you are attacking an important ally.
Karnythia:
I understand. The safe space I was referring to was a live flesh-and-blood conversation among friends, not a website. I encourage you to read the thread where I said those words to Hugo. They don’t mean what Holly took them to mean. (And I’d tell her myself, but I’m banned from Feministe…)
Also what Mandolin said.
and:
I get it. Calling out Amanda allows you to atone for white privilege. I didn’t know this whole controversy was All About You And How Your White Self Can Help End Racism.
“Karnythia April 25, 2008 at 7:32 pm”
trace out who starts this outrage and create map of attack.
(this blog should be protected, not attack)
I was glad to see this apology posted. Those images were vile.
I know this has been a horrid time for you, but I can’t say that without acknowledging that the blindness which led to the original selection of the images is even more horrid and hurtful to the people who are sidelined when such things are treated as if they don’t matter - in this case POC. Being called out on privilege can never be as painful as being overlooked and made invisible due to the privilege of others.
I’ve learnt a lot about my own blind spots from watching the fallout over the last few weeks. That can, in the long run, only be positive for me. I hope that in the long run this can be positive for you as well.
It would be nice if all the people reading this thread at Feministe, Shakes and other places would come HERE and engage instead of sniping from their own bunkers.
This is just silly. We don’t need three simultaneous threads so each clan to get their digs in.
How to map interconnect attack
simplest use technorati to find pattern. (use icerocket to find spike)
http://www.technorati.com/blogs/pandagon.blogsome.com?reactions
When someone sells their book, they pretty much give up a lot of input on the cover, the interior and the title. I have seen a galley of it’s a jungle, and there was no interior art and a very blank green cover with the title. That said, obviously AM saw cover previews, but it is more likely she never saw any of the interior design elements as those are picked and put together by the publisher, and the author is essentially cut out of the process.
In some ways it is very similar to the way movies are handled, in that directors may put the movie together but a movie studio is allowed to cut and paste and market and brand however they want. To a certain extent input is allowed but alas, you sell it, it’s gone.
I appreciate your apology AM, thanks for taking full responsibility.