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	<title>Comments on: NYC Subway &#8216;recidivist transit grinder&#8217; busted for the 53rd time</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Craig R.</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509768</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:17:17 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509768</guid>
					<description>The &quot;Subway rat&quot; has been doing this sort of thing for years because *he has gotten away with it* without significant jail tome.  But it must be hell on keeping a steady job if a couple of times a year you gotta take a 90-day vacation at State expense.

According to the NYT article, this guy started doing this when he was a teen because he saw someone else doing it and that the guy *got away with it.*

So I guess he figured, &quot;H*ll, why not?&quot;

What I find most telling was that what the turning point was that he would not be punished.  He, presumably, would not be doing this unless he *wanted to,* and what stopped him before wasn't that it was demeaning to his victims, or frightening to them, but that he thought he would be *punished.*  

Talk about &quot;feelings of privilege.&quot;

p.s.:  I really have no sympathy about the job prospects, if he is having trouble keeping work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The &#8220;Subway rat&#8221; has been doing this sort of thing for years because *he has gotten away with it* without significant jail tome.  But it must be hell on keeping a steady job if a couple of times a year you gotta take a 90-day vacation at State expense.</p>
	<p>According to the NYT article, this guy started doing this when he was a teen because he saw someone else doing it and that the guy *got away with it.*</p>
	<p>So I guess he figured, &#8220;H*ll, why not?&#8221;</p>
	<p>What I find most telling was that what the turning point was that he would not be punished.  He, presumably, would not be doing this unless he *wanted to,* and what stopped him before wasn&#8217;t that it was demeaning to his victims, or frightening to them, but that he thought he would be *punished.*  </p>
	<p>Talk about &#8220;feelings of privilege.&#8221;</p>
	<p>p.s.:  I really have no sympathy about the job prospects, if he is having trouble keeping work.
</p>
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		<title>by: Rumblelizard</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509524</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:13:53 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509524</guid>
					<description>TG, I didn't mean to come off as accusing you at all, I was just absolutely gobsmacked by the mope's assholery in the article.  For instance:  &lt;blockquote&gt;Hoyt believes that if he and Nguyen [the woman he flashed and masturbated at in the subway] had only met under different circumstances, she might really like him. “You know, she’d go, ‘That guy’s pretty cool. He’s got this restaurant, and he’s fun,’ ” Hoyt says. “She’d probably want to go out with me.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As you said, he may have gotten the message that he'll be in legal trouble if he does something like this again, but he certainly has &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; gotten the message that what he did was wrong.  Or why it was wrong.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>TG, I didn&#8217;t mean to come off as accusing you at all, I was just absolutely gobsmacked by the mope&#8217;s assholery in the article.  For instance:<br />
<blockquote>Hoyt believes that if he and Nguyen [the woman he flashed and masturbated at in the subway] had only met under different circumstances, she might really like him. “You know, she’d go, ‘That guy’s pretty cool. He’s got this restaurant, and he’s fun,’ ” Hoyt says. “She’d probably want to go out with me.”</p></blockquote>
	<p>As you said, he may have gotten the message that he&#8217;ll be in legal trouble if he does something like this again, but he certainly has <i>not</i> gotten the message that what he did was wrong.  Or why it was wrong.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jicklet</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509290</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:56:22 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509290</guid>
					<description>Reading about this has really raised my hackles... But I feel compelled to share. Probably because I was so pressured to keep quiet at the time by the adults in my life. (I was 16)

It took me years to be comfortable riding public transportation, after two men, by their dress, independently of each other, decided to assault me. One rubbed against me from behind, while the other reached his hand up my skirt and raped me. This was on a subway during rush hour.

I was too shocked by the whole thing to say a word, and unable to push away from them through the crowd. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Reading about this has really raised my hackles&#8230; But I feel compelled to share. Probably because I was so pressured to keep quiet at the time by the adults in my life. (I was 16)</p>
	<p>It took me years to be comfortable riding public transportation, after two men, by their dress, independently of each other, decided to assault me. One rubbed against me from behind, while the other reached his hand up my skirt and raped me. This was on a subway during rush hour.</p>
	<p>I was too shocked by the whole thing to say a word, and unable to push away from them through the crowd.
</p>
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		<title>by: HN1</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509172</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:14:59 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509172</guid>
					<description>If this guy's behavior is pathological then New York, P0aris, Toronto, Montreal, London, etc. are teeming with crazies. Who, for some odd reason, manage to have nice suits and lead regular lives but just go nuts when they get on the subway. Weird.

Yeah, life in prison seems a bit much (and highly unlikely when you look at rapists' prison sentences), but how about a little more than a slap on the wrist for guys who think it's okay to touch, grope, rub up on and ejaculate onto anyone who dares to ride the subway while female. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If this guy&#8217;s behavior is pathological then New York, P0aris, Toronto, Montreal, London, etc. are teeming with crazies. Who, for some odd reason, manage to have nice suits and lead regular lives but just go nuts when they get on the subway. Weird.</p>
	<p>Yeah, life in prison seems a bit much (and highly unlikely when you look at rapists&#8217; prison sentences), but how about a little more than a slap on the wrist for guys who think it&#8217;s okay to touch, grope, rub up on and ejaculate onto anyone who dares to ride the subway while female.
</p>
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		<title>by: Erika</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509071</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:58:06 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509071</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;At 53 arrests, I think this guy’s behavior qualifies as pathological. While I sympathize with the sentiments expressed above, let’s try to keep in mind that this guy is probably mentally ill,&lt;/blockquote&gt;


What if he had demonstrated other pathological behavior?  This guy gets off on humiliating and dominating women.  That is the motivating factor in his behavior.  So what if he committed more violent acts of humiliation and domination, like rape?  If he had committed 53 counts of rape, I guarantee that no one would be dismissing him as mentally ill.

Since no one is allegedly hurt by his behavior and since his behavior is merely weird, he's mentally ill.  No, sorry.  Too many men in this society enjoy humiliating and dominating women.  It's not mental illness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>At 53 arrests, I think this guy’s behavior qualifies as pathological. While I sympathize with the sentiments expressed above, let’s try to keep in mind that this guy is probably mentally ill,</p></blockquote>
	<p>What if he had demonstrated other pathological behavior?  This guy gets off on humiliating and dominating women.  That is the motivating factor in his behavior.  So what if he committed more violent acts of humiliation and domination, like rape?  If he had committed 53 counts of rape, I guarantee that no one would be dismissing him as mentally ill.</p>
	<p>Since no one is allegedly hurt by his behavior and since his behavior is merely weird, he&#8217;s mentally ill.  No, sorry.  Too many men in this society enjoy humiliating and dominating women.  It&#8217;s not mental illness.
</p>
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		<title>by: mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509037</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:47:56 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-509037</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;So even if you got an evaluation of mental state, how many judges are there (not that that’s necessarily a good thing) who would be willing to put a man in indefinite confinement because he thinks there’s nothing wrong with rubbing himself against women on the subway?&lt;/i&gt;

I'm not even saying he should be committed, just evaluated.  It seems odd to me that he could rack up this many arrests and not have anyone question his mental state.  Like it's so normal for a man to be assaulting women on the subway that there's no possible way that someone doing it so compulsively could be mentally ill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>So even if you got an evaluation of mental state, how many judges are there (not that that’s necessarily a good thing) who would be willing to put a man in indefinite confinement because he thinks there’s nothing wrong with rubbing himself against women on the subway?</i></p>
	<p>I&#8217;m not even saying he should be committed, just evaluated.  It seems odd to me that he could rack up this many arrests and not have anyone question his mental state.  Like it&#8217;s so normal for a man to be assaulting women on the subway that there&#8217;s no possible way that someone doing it so compulsively could be mentally ill.
</p>
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		<title>by: paul</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508912</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:36:42 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508912</guid>
					<description>mnemosyne:

If I remember correctly, the standard for commitment in NYC is some kind of disconnect from reality that poses a clear danger to self or others. So even if you got an evaluation of mental state, how many judges are there (not that that's necessarily a good thing) who would be willing to put a man in indefinite confinement because he thinks there's nothing wrong with rubbing himself against women on the subway?

This makes me think of those cases where they trank bears and other wild animals that have become too much of a nuisance to humans and release them hundreds of miles from where the problem occurred. Maybe this guy should be confined to a region without mass transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>mnemosyne:</p>
	<p>If I remember correctly, the standard for commitment in NYC is some kind of disconnect from reality that poses a clear danger to self or others. So even if you got an evaluation of mental state, how many judges are there (not that that&#8217;s necessarily a good thing) who would be willing to put a man in indefinite confinement because he thinks there&#8217;s nothing wrong with rubbing himself against women on the subway?</p>
	<p>This makes me think of those cases where they trank bears and other wild animals that have become too much of a nuisance to humans and release them hundreds of miles from where the problem occurred. Maybe this guy should be confined to a region without mass transit.
</p>
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		<title>by: Samantha Vimes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508888</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:52:10 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508888</guid>
					<description>I want the monitoring bracelet set to trigger an alarm whenever he goes into a subway station. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I want the monitoring bracelet set to trigger an alarm whenever he goes into a subway station.
</p>
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		<title>by: mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508882</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:45:50 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508882</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;For this guy to have actually gotten arrested 53 times pretty much demonstrates some kind of mental problem. Given the transit police non-focus on this kind of assault, it’s like managing to acquire 53 arrests for jaywalking. Is he being shamed, or is he getting the attention he craves?&lt;/i&gt;

That's my question -- after arrest #30 or #40, wouldn't a sensible judge send the guy to Bellevue for a 72-hour hold and evaluation?  (It's 72 hours here in California -- not sure what the involuntary mental health hold is in New York.)  It seems pretty bizarre that they could get to 50+ arrests for the same offense and no one has even considered having his mental state evaluated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>For this guy to have actually gotten arrested 53 times pretty much demonstrates some kind of mental problem. Given the transit police non-focus on this kind of assault, it’s like managing to acquire 53 arrests for jaywalking. Is he being shamed, or is he getting the attention he craves?</i></p>
	<p>That&#8217;s my question &#8212; after arrest #30 or #40, wouldn&#8217;t a sensible judge send the guy to Bellevue for a 72-hour hold and evaluation?  (It&#8217;s 72 hours here in California &#8212; not sure what the involuntary mental health hold is in New York.)  It seems pretty bizarre that they could get to 50+ arrests for the same offense and no one has even considered having his mental state evaluated.
</p>
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		<title>by: pastormaker</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508860</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:59:42 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/15/nyc-subway-recidivist-transit-grinder-busted-for-the-53rd-time/#comment-508860</guid>
					<description>I don't know how clean American trains are, but after a hard day at work, and an hour of standing in a stinking, crowded train or tram here in Melbourne, Australia, my thoughts never seem to turn to frotteurism.

You'd have to be a pervert to...oh, wait...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t know how clean American trains are, but after a hard day at work, and an hour of standing in a stinking, crowded train or tram here in Melbourne, Australia, my thoughts never seem to turn to frotteurism.</p>
	<p>You&#8217;d have to be a pervert to&#8230;oh, wait&#8230;
</p>
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