Comments on: You know who needs to take ownership for rapes? Rapists. http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/ Just another WordPress weblog Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:51:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: Abbey http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-508206 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:17:24 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-508206 Hector B.'s suggestion: How about a t-shirt reading “I prosecuted my rapist,” or “My rapist went to jail.” Far more effective than the currently message, IMO. I agree with many of the reasons expressed for why this shirt is best-suited for rallies and in safe spaces. It just seems so unlikely that the message will be taken seriously. And that's what struck me most: This is issue is far too important for a t-shirt. Something as casual as a t-shirt being used to broach conversation on a very serious problem that burdens us all gives the appearance of treating rape as a casual subject. Nope, I'm not down with that personally. Great discussion! Hector B.’s suggestion:

How about a t-shirt reading “I prosecuted my rapist,” or “My rapist went to jail.”

Far more effective than the currently message, IMO.

I agree with many of the reasons expressed for why this shirt is best-suited for rallies and in safe spaces. It just seems so unlikely that the message will be taken seriously.

And that’s what struck me most: This is issue is far too important for a t-shirt. Something as casual as a t-shirt being used to broach conversation on a very serious problem that burdens us all gives the appearance of treating rape as a casual subject. Nope, I’m not down with that personally.

Great discussion!

]]> by: Abbey http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-508204 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:14:08 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-508204 Hector B.'s suggestion: How about a t-shirt reading “I prosecuted my rapist,” or “My rapist went to jail.” Far more effective than the currently message, IMO. I agree with many of the reasons expressed for why this shirt is best-suited for rallies and in safe spaces. It just seems so unlikely that the message will be taken seriously. And that's what struck me most: This is issue is far too important for a t-shirt. Something as casual as a t-shirt being used to broach conversation on a very serious problem that burdens us all gives the appearance of treating rape as a casual subject. Nope, I'm not down with that personally. Great discussion! Hector B.’s suggestion:

How about a t-shirt reading “I prosecuted my rapist,” or “My rapist went to jail.”

Far more effective than the currently message, IMO.

I agree with many of the reasons expressed for why this shirt is best-suited for rallies and in safe spaces. It just seems so unlikely that the message will be taken seriously.

And that’s what struck me most: This is issue is far too important for a t-shirt. Something as casual as a t-shirt being used to broach conversation on a very serious problem that burdens us all gives the appearance of treating rape as a casual subject. Nope, I’m not down with that personally.

Great discussion!

]]> by: Cory http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-507159 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:06:06 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-507159 The Department of Justice needs to create a special department within itself that spcecifically focuses on sexual assault and rape investigations. Just like the Justice Department has the Drug Enforcement Agency for illegal narcotics investigations, it needs to have a special department for sexual assault and rape investigations. Present statistics are a s follows: An average of 1 in 6 women report being raped every year. However, seeing as how most rapes are not reported, it is estimated that actually 1 in 4 women are raped every year. And, in the rape cases that are reported, the conviction rate is about 5 or 6 percent. That is deplorable conviction rate! I believe this low conviction rate is why many women don't report their rapes. They know there will probably be no conviction, so why bother? If men were being raped with such frequency and the conviction rate was that low, I believe most of the Justice Department's investigative resources would be geared toward bringing those rapists to justice. I believe that if the Department of Justice created a special agency for investigating sexual assault and rape, state and local law enforcement agencies would follow suit, just as they have done with illegal narcotics investigations (i.e. the drug task-forces they have set up). Think of a woman in your life; your mother, daughter, wife, sister, aunt, niece, etc. In our society today, she stands a very good chance of being raped and very little chance of being served any justice for that rape. The Justice Department needs to do much more to stop sexual assault and rape. The Department of Justice needs to create a special department within itself that spcecifically focuses on sexual assault and rape investigations. Just like the Justice Department has the Drug Enforcement Agency for illegal narcotics investigations, it needs to have a special department for sexual assault and rape investigations. Present statistics are a s follows: An average of 1 in 6 women report being raped every year. However, seeing as how most rapes are not reported, it is estimated that actually 1 in 4 women are raped every year. And, in the rape cases that are reported, the conviction rate is about 5 or 6 percent. That is deplorable conviction rate! I believe this low conviction rate is why many women don’t report their rapes. They know there will probably be no conviction, so why bother? If men were being raped with such frequency and the conviction rate was that low, I believe most of the Justice Department’s investigative resources would be geared toward bringing those rapists to justice. I believe that if the Department of Justice created a special agency for investigating sexual assault and rape, state and local law enforcement agencies would follow suit, just as they have done with illegal narcotics investigations (i.e. the drug task-forces they have set up). Think of a woman in your life; your mother, daughter, wife, sister, aunt, niece, etc. In our society today, she stands a very good chance of being raped and very little chance of being served any justice for that rape. The Justice Department needs to do much more to stop sexual assault and rape.

]]> by: Cory http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-507157 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:05:09 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-507157 The Department of Justice needs to create a special department within itself that spcecifically focuses on sexual assault and rape investigations. Just like the Justice Department has the Drug Enforcement Agency for illegal narcotics investigations, it needs to have a special department for sexual assault and rape investigations. Present statistics are a s follows: An average of 1 in 6 women report being raped every year. However, seeing as how most rapes are not reported, it is estimated that actually 1 in 4 women are raped every year. And, in the rape cases that are reported, the conviction rate is about 5 or 6 percent. That is deplorable conviction rate! I believe this low conviction rate is why many women don't report their rapes. They know there will probably be no conviction, so why bother? If men were being raped with such frequency and the conviction rate was that low, I believe most of the Justice Department's investigative resources would be geared toward bringing those rapists to justice. I believe that if the Department of Justice created a special agency for investigating sexual assault and rape, state and local law enforcement agencies would follow suit, just as they have done with illegal narcotics investigations (i.e. the drug task-forces they have set up). Think of a woman in your life; your mother, daughter, wife, sister, aunt, niece, etc. In our society today, she stands a very good chance of being raped and very little chance of being served any justice for that rape. The Justice Department needs to do much more to stop sexual assault and rape. The Department of Justice needs to create a special department within itself that spcecifically focuses on sexual assault and rape investigations. Just like the Justice Department has the Drug Enforcement Agency for illegal narcotics investigations, it needs to have a special department for sexual assault and rape investigations. Present statistics are a s follows: An average of 1 in 6 women report being raped every year. However, seeing as how most rapes are not reported, it is estimated that actually 1 in 4 women are raped every year. And, in the rape cases that are reported, the conviction rate is about 5 or 6 percent. That is deplorable conviction rate! I believe this low conviction rate is why many women don’t report their rapes. They know there will probably be no conviction, so why bother? If men were being raped with such frequency and the conviction rate was that low, I believe most of the Justice Department’s investigative resources would be geared toward bringing those rapists to justice. I believe that if the Department of Justice created a special agency for investigating sexual assault and rape, state and local law enforcement agencies would follow suit, just as they have done with illegal narcotics investigations (i.e. the drug task-forces they have set up). Think of a woman in your life; your mother, daughter, wife, sister, aunt, niece, etc. In our society today, she stands a very good chance of being raped and very little chance of being served any justice for that rape. The Justice Department needs to do much more to stop sexual assault and rape.

]]> by: kali http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506883 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:51:30 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506883 also, the troll is monumentally boring. The shirt conversation was interesting, and it died too young. also, the troll is monumentally boring. The shirt conversation was interesting, and it died too young.

]]> by: kali http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506882 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:49:00 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506882 argh. my horrified reaction to the idea of ever wearing this shirt, ever, was kind of instructive. Is that not part of the point? LIke, just imagining everything that would happen and the godawful conversations you'd have to have and the way people would look at you... even if no one ever wears one, these shirts are making an excellent point about shame and victim blaming. <i>Especially</i> because hardly anyone will ever wear one. argh. my horrified reaction to the idea of ever wearing this shirt, ever, was kind of instructive. Is that not part of the point? LIke, just imagining everything that would happen and the godawful conversations you’d have to have and the way people would look at you… even if no one ever wears one, these shirts are making an excellent point about shame and victim blaming. Especially because hardly anyone will ever wear one.

]]> by: Elinor http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506419 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:11:31 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506419 "The spirit of capitalism"? Oh barf. This is boring-ass 1960s Marxist crap about how wanting self-determination is bourgeois (but only for women). <blockquote> Contemptuous of women: There is 0 evidence of this, other than my being anti-abortion.</blockquote> How about your insistence that women who want abortions are brainwashed by the "spirit of capitalism"? How about your referring to abortion as ripping a child out of a "womb," as if the womb didn't belong to anyone? As for rights that involve technology, read up. Women have been inducing abortions (successfully and unsuccessfully) for centuries. Abortion is no more or less a product of technology than shelter. Anyway, enough of this. I see Heather Corinna's point about the shirts, but I think they'll only have the desired effect among particular groups of people -- the kind of people to whom most victims would already be comfortable "coming out." I wish it were otherwise. “The spirit of capitalism”? Oh barf. This is boring-ass 1960s Marxist crap about how wanting self-determination is bourgeois (but only for women).

Contemptuous of women:
There is 0 evidence of this, other than my being anti-abortion.

How about your insistence that women who want abortions are brainwashed by the “spirit of capitalism”? How about your referring to abortion as ripping a child out of a “womb,” as if the womb didn’t belong to anyone?

As for rights that involve technology, read up. Women have been inducing abortions (successfully and unsuccessfully) for centuries. Abortion is no more or less a product of technology than shelter.

Anyway, enough of this. I see Heather Corinna’s point about the shirts, but I think they’ll only have the desired effect among particular groups of people — the kind of people to whom most victims would already be comfortable “coming out.” I wish it were otherwise.

]]> by: Longhairedweirdo http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506415 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:01:10 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506415 <blockquote>Amanda, the fact that you are blind to shades of gray does not actually convert the world into black and white. Your perception is not anybody else’s reality. As I’ve read through your stuff I’ve realized that you have an extraordinary need to impose dualities on everyone and everything.</blockquote> Or, possibly, she wants to highlight those dualities to make people think about them. To oppose abortion is to insist that women undertake a heavy burden, and significant medical risk, not because they choose to do so, but because some people find there to be a great immorality in the destruction of a single cell[1]. Unless one recognizes how this is harmful to women, unless one sees how it looks like complaining about uprooting the sperm-flag a man planted inside a woman, then one can't understand the full nature of the battle. [1] either one must accept that a single cell is a full person with more rights (but strangely, none of the responsibilities) than anyone else, or must accept that there is some point in time during a pregnancy when abortion is perfectly acceptable. This was the start of the "life begins at conception" meme.

Amanda, the fact that you are blind to shades of gray does not actually convert the world into black and white. Your perception is not anybody else’s reality. As I’ve read through your stuff I’ve realized that you have an extraordinary need to impose dualities on everyone and everything.

Or, possibly, she wants to highlight those dualities to make people think about them. To oppose abortion is to insist that women undertake a heavy burden, and significant medical risk, not because they choose to do so, but because some people find there to be a great immorality in the destruction of a single cell[1]. Unless one recognizes how this is harmful to women, unless one sees how it looks like complaining about uprooting the sperm-flag a man planted inside a woman, then one can’t understand the full nature of the battle.

[1] either one must accept that a single cell is a full person with more rights (but strangely, none of the responsibilities) than anyone else, or must accept that there is some point in time during a pregnancy when abortion is perfectly acceptable. This was the start of the “life begins at conception” meme.

]]> by: Cara http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506394 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:51:23 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506394 Dammit. On topic, I don't care for the t-shirt because I don't think it will have the desired effect. I'm certainly not going to tell another woman she shouldn't wear it, though. Dammit. On topic, I don’t care for the t-shirt because I don’t think it will have the desired effect. I’m certainly not going to tell another woman she shouldn’t wear it, though.

]]> by: Cara http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506393 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:48:43 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/04/04/6999/#comment-506393 <blockquote>I agree that some abortions are the result of a woman not wanting to have a child at a certain time. <b>But I can’t think of one example of that that wouldn’t have an economic motivation:</b> even if it is just generally related to the “spirit of capitalism.”</blockquote> I've only read to this point. Dink, you truly can't fathom that a woman with enough money to care for a child might simply decide <i>she doesn't want to</i> bear one? The idea that all women want babies, deep down, is pretty sexist.

I agree that some abortions are the result of a woman not wanting to have a child at a certain time. But I can’t think of one example of that that wouldn’t have an economic motivation: even if it is just generally related to the “spirit of capitalism.”

I’ve only read to this point. Dink, you truly can’t fathom that a woman with enough money to care for a child might simply decide she doesn’t want to bear one? The idea that all women want babies, deep down, is pretty sexist.

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