Okay, this article that Jill linked to is so worth blogging. It’s this weird, semi-guilty article about those oh-so-picky-bitches who just want men they partner with to clear certain basic standards in conversation ability. Okay, well, dumping someone just because he’s never heard of Pushkin is a little extreme, at least if he demonstrates good taste overall. Some women need to learn the joys of introducing a lover to something new, though of course you always run the danger that he’ll hate it.
But the notion that holding potential mates to a taste standard is shallow frankly blows my mind. I think, and said this in the comments at Feministe, that the admirable liberal movement against being judgmental sometimes suffers from what can only be considered a definitional issue. Judging someone for their race, religion, sex life, whatever, when it comes to their basic human rights and access to involvement in the political system is clearly wrong. Judging someone on these things and refusing to be friends or lovers with them is your right, but it makes you stupid and limits you more than anything else. But judging someone that you share a friendship with, much less your life, on personal qualities strikes me as perfectly reasonable and the only efficient way to handle your social life. If you can’t stand someone’s horrible taste or sense of humor, it seems that it’s best for everyone involved to go their separate ways.
With that in mind, I offer the same discussion question Jill did: What are your deal-breakers with someone you’re dating?
But I come not just to gently tease the article and start a discussion, but also to ream it. Or precisely, this “WTF” bad argumentation that only slipped in because it fits the NY Times mandate that men and women should be treated not as different sexes, but different species.
Let’s face it — this may be a gender issue. Brainy women are probably more sensitive to literary deal breakers than are brainy men. (Rare is the guy who’d throw a pretty girl out of bed for revealing her imperfect taste in books.)
This is what we call a false analogy, or comparing apples to oranges. Kicking someone out of bed /= breaking up with someone you’re seeing, and pretending they’re equivalent to force this “men and women are so different” argument is a lousy trick. The women interviewed are largely talking about refusing to pursue relationships, not just some meaningless sex. If you asked 100 men if good taste is mandatory for potential girlfriends, not just someone you permit into your bed for a night, I bet you’d get the same percentages as if you asked women the same question.
And then when they do interview men, it turns out my hunch is right—turns out men care about taste, too.
Still, to some reading men, literary taste does matter. “I’ve broken up with girls saying, ‘She doesn’t read, we had nothing to talk about,’” said Christian Lorentzen, an editor at Harper’s. Lorentzen recalls giving one girlfriend Nabokov’s “Ada” — since it’s “funny and long and very heterosexual, even though I guess incest is at its core.” The relationship didn’t last, but now, he added, “I think it’s on her Friendster profile as her favorite book.”
James Collins, whose new novel, “Beginner’s Greek,” is about a man who falls for a woman he sees reading “The Magic Mountain” on a plane, recalled that after college, he was “infatuated” with a woman who had a copy of “The Unbearable Lightness of Being” on her bedside table. “I basically knew nothing about Kundera, but I remember thinking, ‘Uh-oh; trendy, bogus metaphysics, sex involving a bowler hat,’ and I never did think about the person the same way (and nothing ever happened),” he wrote in an e-mail message. “I know there were occasions when I just wrote people off completely because of what they were reading long before it ever got near the point of falling in or out of love: Baudrillard (way too pretentious), John Irving (way too middlebrow), Virginia Woolf (way too Virginia Woolf).” Come to think of it, Collins added, “I do know people who almost broke up” over “The Corrections” by Jonathan Franzen: “‘Overrated!’ ‘Brilliant!’ ‘Overrated!’ ‘Brilliant!’”
So, in other words, there’s no real reason to think men and women are significantly different on this issue.
I think it’s more important to me that someone has good taste in what they do than whether or not they do something. Like, I don’t mind if someone doesn’t read a lot of books, so long as he or she does other interesting things. Like if you like movies more than books, that’s cool, as long as your taste in movies is good.
Not liking Firefly might be a deal-breaker for me. If you can’t see past the occasional cheese to the sublime beauty of the series, we can’t be more than friends.
For me, I would probably judge someone more harshly about their attitude or interest regarding travel or foreign cultures than on matters literary or cultural. Someone who told me she had never travelled outside the U.S. and didn’t want to would be more of a dealkiller than someone who had not read a particular novelist.
That said, tacky is tacky. Or more specifically, dramatically ironic tackiness, as opposed to self-aware, post-modern quasi-nostalgic tackiness, the so-bad-it’s-teh-awesome type of tacky.
Narcissism. Especially if she has a bit of sociopathy on the side.
What are your deal-breakers with someone you’re dating?
The only really, really serious dealbreaker is either physical/sexual/emotional abuse, or slightly less severe but no less huge, feeling free to disrespect me in front of friends or family. And no blatant misogyny, racism, and/or general assholishness.
Sadly, I’m probably most judgmental in terms of career. People who work in finance or a similarly corporate field bore me. It’s probably not fair, but it’s been the case so often than I treat it as a general rule. Politics is probably next on the list.
You know…when I was single…I had TONS of deal breakers. Likes to dance, isn’t obsessed with sports, enjoys travel and the beach, height (okay, so shallow yes). Then I met my husband and absolutely all of the above flew out the window because he was such a great person and I enjoyed his company. So oh well!
I’ve had the same rules since high school, and they always served me well when I was single:
- No Rush fans (the band, not Limbaugh, though that might be a dealbreaker, too)
- No martial arts
- No guys named Jim, James, or any derivative thereof
I remember talking to my therapist when I was getting ready to dip my toe back in the dating pool and telling her that my absolute #1 requirement in a boyfriend/husband was that he be someone I could have conversations with. She tried to discourage me since there are still a fair number of “strong silent” types out there, but that’s what it was.
Now I’m married to a man who sometimes makes me late to work (and vice versa) because the conversation we’re having is too interesting for me to interrupt. So it all worked out.
Kicking someone out of bed /= breaking up with someone you’re seeing, and pretending they’re equivalent to force this “men and women are so different” argument is a lousy trick.
Forgot to comment on this. Anyone remember a little television show called Seinfeld? Wasn’t one of the running gags of the show that Jerry was ridiculously picky, and really would break up with (or even simply stop sleeping with) a woman for ridiculous things like how she chewed or things her name rhymed with?
Yep, men NEVER reject women for arbitrary personal reasons. It just never happens. If a man finds a woman sexually attractive, he might as well marry her.
What are your deal-breakers with someone you’re dating?
Someone remotely sexist, racist, homophobic, or “macho.”
Someone who believes in anything spiritual, religious, or supernatural.
Someone who doesn’t want to knock boots frequently.
Someone who wears clothes ironically.
Someone who refuses to enjoy the Beatles. I don’t have time for that crap.
It’s a very good thing I made an exception on my “Someone who employs comma splices and misuses homophones” deal-breaker. I ended up marrying him. Love conquers all, and teaches grammar snobs to get over it.
If for any reason I ever had to date again, I don’t think I could stomach swapping spit with a non-vegan. Taco juice is gross!
Are those shallow enough?
Anyone remember a little television show called Seinfeld?
Remember it? That IS one of my dealbreakers. I once weaseled out of going out with a blind date for a second time because the guy’s favorite show was Seinfeld.
I guess for me the single most important deal-breaker is the issue of children. I don’t want any, and am pretty sure I never will. So if she wants children, we’ll be parting ways. This does pose some challenges, since wanting children is a common (and understandable) desire, but I just don’t see myself as a father. At least not anytime soon.
Mnemosyne said: No Rush fans
Aw hell naw.
Considering Rush fan-dom a deal-breaker is a total deal-breaker.
Besides the obvious (lack of respect, bigotry, cruelty, etc.)
Someone who is not at least OK with dogs.
Someone who does not like the outdoors- you don’t have to be Bear Grizzly, just don’t sit in front of a computer all day. And as a corollary, no luddites need apply, either.
Someone who can’t appreciate Terry Pratchett.
Someone who can’t at least make an attempt to understand my obsession with campy sci-fi (Stargate SG-1) and hard sci-fi (BSG).
Someone who doesn’t mind that I am not a vegetarian.
See earlier statement. Not to mention the whole vein of the discussion.
For instance: I would have never thought I’d be married to a Christian pastor. I’m sure that for a number of the readers, that would be a deal breaker.
#6: If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Dealbreakers:
1. Casual racist– no, not the “i have a hood in my closet” racist, but the “black people are like this, white people are like this” racist. Can’t do it.
2. Only cites European cultural theorists/contemporary artists/bands I’ve never heard of. Sometimes cites bands I’ve never heard of=great. *Only* refers to them, not ok.
3. Wouldn’t date anyone *because* they were reading the following, but might hold out hope for enjoyable arguments with them:
a. Nietzche
b. Jung
c. The Grundrisse
d. Left Behind
e. Terry McMillan
f. E. Lynn Harris (wow, it’s like I Love the 90s on VH1)
g. Zane
h. H.P. Lovecraft
i. Star Wars novelizations
j. celebrity tell-all biographies (except possibly George Michael, if he has one)
Real life story: I was a young undergraduate and worked out all the time at this gym. One day, a big jock-type guy with no neck asks me if I want to see a Metallica concert. Having never been to a Metallica concert but mildly turned on by the idea of heavy metal, I agree to go. We have a bland and unmemorable time, but I like the experience (even though I cannot hear for about three days afterwards).
Then, he asks me out again to so see Peter Pan! I am sort of tickled that a guy who likes Metallica might also like Peter Pan! It’s a trip. But he likes it SO much and spends so much time later analyzing Peter Pan that I start to worry…
The deal breaker, though, is Valentine’s Day. It rolls around right after our second date. I am not expecting anything, especially since we have not even kissed yet. But he sends me 12 dozen red roses. And so, I know it is the end…
Also: anyone who seems like they want a little too much information about me early on: Stalker radar goes off and I run.
Every time I make internal sweeping generalizations about how someone’s tastes effect their worth, I usually end up eating crow, but that doesn’t stop me from doing it all the time.
The biggest deal breaker I can think of is people who listen to Pink Floyd or Led Zepplin. I’m sure there are generally good reasons for liking the bands (God help me if I can figure them out) but most when I hear about most people in my age range (mid-twenties) talking about liking them, I get the feeling that they like the fact that people know they listen to the band, more than they actually like the band.
I think I would probably draw the sharpest line on 9/11 Truthers; if I was on a date with someone who tries to convince me that 9/11 was an inside job, I could picture myself excusing myself from the table and stiffing the girl with the bill.
Hm. I guess now that I’m back in the dating pool, that’s something I should consider.
It used to be not having read “Lord of the Rings” but my now-ex hadn’t read it when I was dating him, and read it because the movies were coming out. He complained that Gandalf was a stereotypical wizard, and I had to gently explain that Gandalf was the prototype, not the stereotype.
He also hated the Ents, which probably should have been a red flag. Oh well.
If everything out of your mouth is a quote from a movie or tv show, you’d better have some damn awesome redeeming characteristics before we can spend much time together.
It’s dismaying how many people I’ve thought were witty and original turned out not to be, just because there are so many popular movies I’ve never seen.
Oh, I forgot religion.
I CANNOT date a born-again Christian.
I’d like to think I would also avoid fundamentalists of other stripes, but it’s entirely possible I could go a few dates with someone like that if maybe the exact specifics of their beliefs didn’t come out right away. But I can sniff out a Christianist from 20 paces, and No. Just no.
A couple times I made the mistake of going out with women who just plain didn’t like to read. And once with someone who didn’t like to eat (for whom food was just fuel, not an occasion for enjoyment). Well, twice: when a girl I had a crush on in college deigned to have lunch with me and just had a small salad the attraction pretty much died. Oh, and racism/classism/homophobia/blahblahblah
I’ve been dumped for not being hip enough, and for being too serious (and then there was the gf who, when I said I wanted to break up, gave me a big hug and said “Thank goodness! I just wasn’t having fun any more”). And for just being impossible to get along with…
But perhaps my favorite dealkiller is the one my spouse related about a former beau, who was apparently talking with her mother when he said, “You know, she’s just not very funny.” Couldn’t imagine staying with someone who didn’t laugh at my jokes, or whose jokes I didn’t laugh at.
This is sort of cheating since we were married already, but angrymob got really upset when I read The Fountainhead in preparation for playing BioShock. He kept grousing about it whenever he’d see me read it–even though I wasn’t exactly exclaiming “woah! I’d been wrong about Rand all along!” As far as he’s concerned (and I am more or less inclined to agree), she’s just a nut and we shouldn’t give her the credibility of reading her even if we’re fact-finding for a rhetorical takedown.
Broadsheet had a column about this as well and I really see no reason not to have deal-breakers. Pithy low-culture hipster points aside, if someone has a collection of right-wing books on their table — Culture Warrior, Treason, Atlas Shrugged etc — that says volumes not only about how they view the world in which they live but also how they view me. If their library tells me “you are an object, you are not entitled to the same rights as others, I find comfort in a paranoid, authoritarian viewpoint” — there isn’t much that’s going to convince me to stick around that person–because it’s obviously not going to work out between us.
I have a friend who loves to tell the story about how I broke up with a guy because his favorite show was “Two and a half men.”
And ok, I do tell the story that way, but only because that show was an index of his sense of humor. Also, he didn’t read. At all. Nice guy, but I just couldn’t talk to him.
when I hear about most people in my age range (mid-twenties) talking about liking them, I get the feeling that they like the fact that people know they listen to the band, more than they actually like the band.
Or they could have grown up listening to those bands — especially if they are from the south. My parents owned every Led Zep record, and classic rock radio was on anytime the keys turned in the car ignition. That said, I’m not sure I’d drop that particular fact on a first date. People who self-consciously make sure to mention they only listen to “Floyd”? Ew.
I’ve been married and monogamous for almost 10 years, so all dealbreakers are pretty firmly in the past for me.
However, assuming I was single again and looking for a relationship, I couldn’t see myself with someone who is conservative, particularly socially conservative, or very religious. Nominal religious belief is something I could deal with, although I don’t share it, but but I couldn’t deal with a very religious person (and I don’t imagine that a very religious person could deal with my atheist self, either). I also need someone who is at least as intelligent as I am, and preferably more so.
And I can’t take snobs. I come from rednecks and white trash (and I mean that in the nicest way possible), I have a weakness for trashy romance novels, and I like what a lot of people would consider “bad” music (i.e., standard pop/rock music).
Lucky for me, I married a highly intelligent, liberal, progressive, funny guy. We have enough of our core values in common that differences in tastes and temperament make the relationship interesting and/or can be overlooked.
Oh, I forgot religion.
I CANNOT date a born-again Christian.
I’d like to think I would also avoid fundamentalists of other stripes, but it’s entirely possible I could go a few dates with someone like that if maybe the exact specifics of their beliefs didn’t come out right away. But I can sniff out a Christianist from 20 paces, and No. Just no.
Me too. Partially because I had fundies, but mostly because whenever I’m around someone who is very, or even slightly Christ-centric the voice of my mom pops in my head and begins to make me feel guilty about the fact that I haven’t been to church for years.
It’s been my experience that when someone thinks that holding potential mates to a taste standard is shallow, it’s usually in the context not of judging someone else, but of having been judged by someone else.
We make judgements of others all the time, and I do agree that that’s the mechanism by which we choose our friends and lovers. It gets a bit sticky, however, when we employ normative terms like “good” and “bad”, because we never think our own tastes are bad (obviously). So we readily evaluate others’ tastes as good or bad, but when our own tastes are rendered as bad by someone else, we tend not to like that. No one wants to be negatively judged; if you can let that roll off of your back every time, then my hat’s off to you.
I guess what I’m trying to get at here is that a little self-reflection in the social realm is healthy, not only in the sense that one’s tastes can be subject to change, but that judgement runs in both directions. I realize that sounds like I’m stating the obvious, but it’s easy to forget that when we’re making our way in the social realm.
Or they could have grown up listening to those bands — especially if they are from the south. My parents owned every Led Zep record, and classic rock radio was on anytime the keys turned in the car ignition. That said, I’m not sure I’d drop that particular fact on a first date. People who self-consciously make sure to mention they only listen to “Floyd”? Ew.
Really, the bands are so popular that it’s impossible to judge everyone who listen to the band…I just wanted an excuse to bitch some more about my roommate
Which brings me to another deal breaker; chronic pot-smoking. Nothing more attractive then hiding in your room all day and getting stoned instead of actually going out and doing things.
Deal-breakers:
Men with longer hair than Britney Spears (back when she had hair, I mean).
Butch lesbians who think they are cops (ie: who act more sexist and obnoxious than men).
People who write epic e-mails. If you can’t say it in the space of a computer screen, then it’s not worth saying!
If you fail to recognize that Damu the Fudgemonk is the greatest musical genius since Beethoven, I can’t begin to fathom a casual acquaintance with you, let alone friendship.
The best part is that I didn’t have to settle: the divine Mrs. F doesn’t do/have any of these (they are in no particular order):
1. Tobacco
2. Religion
3. High heels other than on the most formal occasions
4. Dog ownership
5. Conservatism of any stripe
6. Bad teeth
7. Vegan/vegetarian
8. Lack of irony
9. Jewelry, unless it’s handmade and relatively inexpensive
10. Cares about cars or brand names
11. Stalker ex
12. Doesn’t want kids
13. Anti-intellectual
14. Likes Dave Matthews Band
Now *she* settled, in that I hate musicals and will not watch or go to them, and I cannot successfully feign an interest in outdoor activities like camping and so forth. But she has friends she can do all that with, and then I get alone time.
ding ding ding…I was marveling over this youtube clip.
The problem of love: ‘who’ or ‘what’?
Jacques Derrida, On Love and Being
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj1BuNmhjAY
God damn I fail all three. Just shows you how silly these sorts of rules are, ‘cause I’m totally awesome and any woman would be lucky to have me…
I have a lot of trouble finding other people who share my tastes in anything. Where are all the John Carpenter, Phillip K. Dick, Clive Barker, KMFDM fans?
I have a friend who collects Chick Tracts and other religious stuff, the more kitschy the better — like salt and pepper shakers in the shape of nuns and Jesus hummels and that sort of thing. She does it to be ironic, though.
Collecting Jesus kitsch non-ironically would definitely be a deal breaker, in fact, I think I would be backing away very slowly while smiling and nodding.
Dudes that bring flowers on a first date (especially, true story, if it’s a single fake rose).
Not only am I not a fan of gifted flowers in general, but first date flowers are almost always accompanied by an insufferably smug sense of self-satisfaction.
I have a lot of trouble finding other people who share my tastes in anything. Where are all the John Carpenter, Phillip K. Dick, Clive Barker, KMFDM fans?
At the local comic book convention?
At the bottom of a bag of Cheetos?
(but I kid)
Taste-wise, I could never have a relationship with someone if they didn’t have at least a basic appreciation for musical theatre.
I largely introduced my husband to it, and while he’s not a huge fan he genuinely enjoys it and will go with me gladly.
God, or someone who collected Chick Tracts unironically. Not that I’ve ever been unfortunate enough to meet such a person.
I’m another person who’s puzzled by the idea that having an idea of the sort of person you’d want to date is shallow. I think it’s a good thing. It shows that you’re not just looking for a relationship, any relationship, OMG TEH BIOLOGICAL CLOCKZ!!1! — but that you’ve already got a decent idea of who you are, and you’re generally OK with yourself and your life. OK enough with it to invite someone to share it with you, candidly and openly, while being realistic about what’s probably not going to work. I think those are all markers of psychological health.
One thing about it that may correlate to political alignment: liberals typically value individuals over institutions, and conservatives do it the other way ’round. (Heh. Sounds like a T-shirt, a la “Rogues do it from behind”.) Anyway, because we don’t read anything into our success or failure in any given relationship past the individuals involved, that might make us likelier just to try again with other individuals, whereas someone more given to essentialist thinking might get rejected by the same number of people and get a whole complex about the opposite sex, like the Nice Guy(TM) or his female counterpart.
Long story short, I think traditional gender roles come into play here. Women are expected to be attractive to men above all else, and men are expected to be virile and macho and irresistible to women. I think the more progress you make towards overcoming those gender roles, the more likely you are to be choosy about your relationships, because your relationship status is no longer a big neon sign telling your worth as a human being. Food for thought.
Wow, I think someone or other has already listed every one of my dealbreakers, especially the “everything out of your mouth is a quote from a movie or tv show” thing.
Except for one, which might actually exempt some of the men here too.
Dune. If I ever hear you reciting, “Fear is the mind-killer…” Well, just don’t. Please.
Mighty Ponygirl, you read a book to prepare for playing a video game? If you were a Ponyguy, I’d be in love.
I had tons of deal-breakers when I was dating a few years back and especially when I was doing online dating. Reading tastes were one. At one point, I refused to consider anyone who listed The Da Vinci Code as the most recent book they’d read. I also refused to consider anyone who mentioned motorcycles or had a picture of a sports car in his profile. In fact, the longer I dated, the more deal-breakers I developed. It made the whole process ever so much more efficient.
Then I met my partner, and he was absolutely perfect for me - he’s a big-time reader, he’s super brainy, he makes bad puns, he sings off-key and makes up goofy lyrics, he loves good food and wine, and he’s handsome and sexy to boot. He was so perfect, it freaked me out, so I told him I didn’t want to date him.
Fortunately, he’s also persistent. And my skittishness wasn’t a deal breaker for him.
Women are expected to be attractive to men above all else
I think 99% of all this ‘women are so picky and judgmental!’ crap is that it violates the gender norm which says that it’s the job of the women to shut up and look pretty, and choosing is the man’s job. As a woman, you should accept any man who’s good enough to take you and STFU (also some pie would be good right about now).
I also have to say that a certain amount of difference in taste, and familiarity with the same cultural stuff, can be interesting. I like learning and trying new things.
But if I find a lad-mag in your apartment, you should probably assume I’ll never call again.
Also, my own dealbreakers: rigid gender roles (I’m bi, dress kinda femme but act butch), authoritarianism, selfishness, being apolitical/apathetic, wanting children (I’m childless by choice), not reading, not having nerdy or geeky interests (you don’t have to share all of my fandoms, but someone who dismisses all fandom as immature is not for me), religion, needing a really happening social life (I’m autistic).
And one weird one that I’d be curious to see if any Pandagonians share: I hate people who call women “baby.” I just think it’s creepy.
Also, Jonathan, I like Pink Floyd AND Led Zeppelin.
And Foucault, I write e-novels. So I guess neither of you are for me.
I will never date another furry. Also, oral sex. I had a boyfriend once go “ew, yuck!” even though he was totally happy to accept a blowjob, and after that relationship I have no use for guys who aren’t happy as clams to reciprocate.
It’s dismaying how many people I’ve thought were witty and original turned out not to be, just because there are so many popular movies I’ve never seen.
Dammit, Junk, I thought we could be friends.
Thank you Amanda!! I read that “Rare is the guy” section and was just floored. Though why I should be surprised…
It is such a relief when I see that I am not alone in these reactions.
Deal breakers are: passive aggressiveness. I have a zero tolerance policy towards it. Prudishness. Cheapness. Shallowness. I can put up with most matters of taste. I once dated a hot guy who like movies like Soulplane. It was hell for 90 minutes but he more than made up for it in the hours that followed. On the other hand i once dated a guy who would get pissy and deny me sex if i didn’t like a movie or a band that he liked.
“Men with longer hair than Britney Spears (back when she had hair, I mean).”
Wow. Sexism towards both genders in a single sentence. Congratulations!
My deal breakers are scientific illiteracy (I once semi-dated a gal until I discovered that she didn’t know what the scientific method was and believed that herbal medicines were safer than pharmaceuticals), inability to admit their geekiness, disliking popular things just because they’re popular, religiosity, and conservatism.
For women specifically — over-identification with the butch/femme thing. I am neither butch nor femme, in any way. I am both and neither, actually, fuck that, I am a HUMAN BEING not a clothing style or sexual role. Butch women who first see me in a skirt flitting around about how much I love knitting and decide I will be ‘their’ woman, or femme women who see me in jeans and an old paint-spattered t-shirt and assume I want a lap dance — NO. Actually, these folks might be behind certain evangelical Christians.
Also, either lesbians who find my bisexuality repulsive, or dudely hetero dudes who think it means I will be into a threesome.
OK, so apparently I have a lot of dealbreakers.
I had tons of deal-breakers when I was dating a few years back and especially when I was doing online dating. Reading tastes were one. At one point, I refused to consider anyone who listed The Da Vinci Code as the most recent book they’d read. I also refused to consider anyone who mentioned motorcycles or had a picture of a sports car in his profile. In fact, the longer I dated, the more deal-breakers I developed. It made the whole process ever so much more efficient.
That reminds me of yet another deal breaker; 16-year-olds who say that they are 21-year-olds on dating websites.
Wanting children was a dealbreaker for me when I was dating guys. Why invest emotionally in someone who had such a different need out of life?
I told the guy I ended up marrying about my slash habit on our first is-it-a-date? date. Because pretty much all my deal-breakers (sexism, homophobia, any issues with my general fannishness, snobbery about TV/comics/movies) would have come up in his response to that.
He now makes slashy commentary on TV shows before I do.
That’s the thing with online dating: if you make a policy of being open to anything, you’re going to spend a huge amount of time fending off losers.
My now-husband responded to my ad because the last movie I’d seen was The Palm Beach Story. Putting that in my profile was a siren call to all of the other film geeks in Los Angeles.
Then it turned out that we went to the same college, in the same department, had a large lecture class together, and graduated in the same ceremony but had never actually met, so there may be something to this “fate” stuff, too.
M-O-N-E-Y
If she is perpetually between jobs, incapable of managing personal finances, in credit card debt to the eyeballs, living with parents till it’s sorted out and over the age of 25. Run. Run far away as fast as you can.
I think the dealbreaker for me would be not understanding my enjoyment of gaming. Not just talking about video games, but also board games, role playing games, etc.
She doesn’t have to be INTO them. But not thinking they’re a stupid childish waste of time is essential. For what it’s worth I spent the night doing the Nagrand Nessingway quest lines with my wife:p
Kyso, I’ll never believe you’re not witty and original.
Okay, THANK you for noticing the distinction between kicking someone out of bed and declining to let them into bed in the first place. If I hit the “…and we’re done here” point over a book, he was nowhere near serious boyfriend status to begin with.
I still regret failing to immediately break up with a guy when he revealed that he thought the Larry Sanders Show was dumb and he much preferred… oh, god, “Dream On,” I think it was called? Some HBO show that was on right before or after it, starring an actor whose range encompassed all of three (3) facial expressions (happy/frowny/confuse-y). I hadn’t even seen the Larry Sanders Show yet, and I still knew enough about it to know that this young man was probably not for me. (Have seen it plenty since, and I was right.)
Stupidly, I went out with him at least once more, not wanting to be too mean about his taste in TV, and in the process wasted his time and mine.
“Dune. If I ever hear you reciting, “Fear is the mind-killer…” Well, just don’t. Please.”
How about this one?
“The assumption that a whole system can be made to work better through an assault on its conscious elements betrays a dangerous ignorance. This has often been the ignorant approach of those who call themselves scientists and technologists.”
-The Butlerian Jihad
by Harq al-Ada
Ha! You know those people who end up having to settle for complete losers/die alone and crying because they’re totally unattractive? That’ll be me!
I suppose the super-dealbraker would be being anti-choice. I don’t think I’ve ever met an anti-choicer who wasn’t also a supreme asshole (and usually smug as hell). Also, if the dude suddenly started beaming Creeper Rays, that would probably put an end to our menage a deux.
Dealbreakers
1) Right to life. Most people who are RTL are just too far away from my core beliefs to even consider
2)Born again Christian or anyone who belongs to a religion that wants to convert me. I know what I feel about Life, the Universe and Everything and I’m too old to change now
3) Libertarian. Again, way to far from my view of the world
4) Racist, homophoic or sexist.
5) Married or in a committed relationship. If they want to cheat OK, but I don’t want to be part of it.
6)Neat freak. I’m a total slob and way too old to change now.
7) Cat Hater. I have three and I’m keeping them
8) Anti-TV. My Ex hated all forms of TV and made me feel guilty whenever I watched the boob tube. Give me someone I can be a couch potatoe with. Ditto for anyone who hates surfing the net.
I am wishy-washy about god(s) and spirituality and find certainty in others unsettling. If you are a steadfast atheist or religionist, I probably won’t date you. Agnostic, fine. “Sorta” Catholic/Buddhist/whatever, fine. “Spiritual,” great. Scientologist, Mormon, Baptist–not cool.
8) Anti-TV. My Ex hated all forms of TV and made me feel guilty whenever I watched the boob tube. Give me someone I can be a couch potatoe with. Ditto for anyone who hates surfing the net.
Fucking A LinaH.
Exciting! Thrilling! Adventures! Are fun and all, but if I can’t spend a lazy Saturday dozing on the bed and watching TV with somebody then it’s definitely not going to work out in the long run.
I’ve given more thought to deal breakers and I really don’t think I could date anybody who is religious or spiritual.
And I’ve said I wouldn’t have sex with a Libertarian, but upon further consideration, I suppose I might have sex with a Libertarian if he was very good looking and didn’t talk much. But I still wouldn’t date a Libertarian.
Whoops, LindaH. I apologize.
Serial killing is another deal breaker for me. I dated more than a couple, and each one of them were psychotic when it came to cleanliness.
I would have a hard time relating to someone who didn’t care about politics and social issues at all. I don’t think I would know how to talk to that person. On the shallow end, I did once decide not to pursue something with a guy because he gave me a Phish tape. It was so early on that I can’t really say we “broke up,” but I didn’t see him anymore and he wanted to keep seeing me, so there it is.
On the more extreme side of things, my brother-in-law once broke up with a woman because she didn’t know what hoi polloi meant. That may be a case where she was better off without him.
dudely hetero dudes who think it means I will be into a threesome.
I get that too, and I’m not even bi. It never ceases to amaze me how many men fail to grasp that “I’m gay” means “Your penis is a dealbreaker.” Actually, I think that’s exactly how I’ll phrase it from now on.
The teeny tiny pool of single, queer women in my cozy little city means that I have to be fairly flexible. I’ve gone from “no smoking” to “smoking outside and not immediately before sex” to “okay, well, just don’t smoke in my apartment.” I can’t imagine having any pop-cultural dealbreakers. There are things I don’t like, but I don’t mind if she shares them with other people. My mandatory weekly TV includes such intellectual fodder as Torchwood and Moonlight*, and I don’t see what’s so wrong with enjoying radio hits. I’ve also got a decent jazz collection and can tell you what’s happening in a classical piece. Basically, my tastes fall all over the brow spectrum, so I’m willing to give anyone a shot who’s willing to do the same for me.
Eventually, though, she’ll have to meet my picky, oddball dog, and he’s got his own mysterious set of dealbreakers.
*Torchwood at least has a decent cast (John Barrowman is my complete hero) and good FX, even if the writers are playing MadLibs. Moonlight? Yeah, can’t justify it. But I love it so.
Is there any reason why the blog won’t read the numbers I write in for the anti-spam email? I guess if you can read this, I figured it out already.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add. ANY connection to evangelical Christianity. ANY.
I am in the process of getting divorced. My wife and I met on an AOL atheist chat board 11 years ago. 5 years ago, well into marriage, she found Jesus. Big time. Southern Baptist. She teaches Sunday School.
She exerted efforts to keep a lesbian woman unhappily married to a man in her church, as God doesn’t like “that lifestyle” (our best man was an HIV positive gay friend.) She is full of tacky tchotchkes proclaiming the Big Jesus Love.
So. She asks for a divorce from the heathen husband 4 months ago. Now I find she’s dating - AND HAS PROMISED TO MARRY - another Southern Baptist from her divorce care group before I am even out of the marital house, am still here pending sale. Meanwhile, they prattle on about their “Christian love” for each other, etc. etc, Even to the point of making a fetish of their religious identification with Adam and Eve. I cannot make this up, am just not twisted enough.
As for me, I am no saint, but 11 years of acquaintance, dating, living together, engagement and marriage and not even held the hand of another woman once. Atheist immorality, I guess. I indulge myself this petty personal rant now to affirm, well, pretty much every single thing Amanda Marcotte ever said about hypocrisy from the Christian community, and probably the next 100 things Marcotte may say in the future, on her good credit. Evangelical Christianity for me is a militant, no-tolerance dealkiller.
Libertarian/Republican
Fundie Christians
Is obsessed with owning Prada/Gucci/diamonds/etc.
Thinks strongly the twin tower demolitions weren’t an inside job.
Doesn’t read… at all.
Racists/homophobes
Afraid of hallucinogens
Dislikes Feminism
Complains A LOT
I was with a girl for 5 years who would, every day, want to talk about how awful her coworkers were, for hours at a time. Other than that she was awesome, but I’m sorry, never, ever, again will I subject myself to that.
It’s great to go out with all kinds of people, just for the excitement if nothing else. But I’ve seen far too many people torn apart by major ideological differences to consider a long-term relationship with anyone who is:
conservative
Christian
too New Age-y
uninterested in books
abusive in some way
Those are my four deal-breakers. Since I’ve been happily married for eight years I would say they served me well.
My husband fell in love with me when I responded positively to Paul Bowles. What does that say about our relationship? Well, I don’t know but I’m not headed to Morocco anytime soon.
“How about this one?
“The assumption that a whole system can be made to work better through an assault on its conscious elements betrays a dangerous ignorance. This has often been the ignorant approach of those who call themselves scientists and technologists.”
-The Butlerian Jihad
by Harq al-Ada ”
Brian Herbert is one of my deal-breakers. My husband insisted on suffering through every last one of those ridiculous books, which wouldn’t have been so bad, but he’s one of those folks who’s simply compelled to share the horror.
A few that I can think of- and yes I am judgemental and I hate most of what I grew up with in the rural midwest. (see below)
-someone who can’t appreciate just how awesome most of the Japanese anime and figures and etc. are I can’t hang with. I went on a date to Uwajimaya with a guy and he pointedly said “Gee I can’t see spending $5 on a tiny piece of plastic crap”. I said goodnight shortly thereafter.
-someone who doesn’t know Monty Python, the Young Ones and Blackadder. You don’t have to quote it exactly but at least KNOW what I’m taking about
-someone who is a picky eater (the current bf is at least GGG in that regard)
-someone who doesn’t like animals
-someone who has never traveled outside of the US
worst date ever- a guy took me to the Tacoma Dome for a monster truck rally. I was trapped there. aaaghhh!!!
I basically left this same sentiment on Feministe, but since I got there from here I thought I’d add a little something. Note that I did not read the comments left on her post.
I completely agree with the Ayn Rand sentiment. Ayn believed that “multiculturalism is the new racism,” and was very much into self-interest.
I could also never see myself seriously with someone who thinks the Hurricane Katrina victims all got fair warning and should have just gotten out when they were warned.
- The three “Big A’s” - abuse, alcoholism or substance abuse, adultery
- Poor personal hygiene
- Doesn’t like cats (I cannot conceive of a catless life)
- It’s fine if HE has children, but he better not expect ME to produce them
- Having a problem with the fact that I’m a practicing pagan. He can be of any religion or no religion, but he has to respect mine
- Right-wing libertarianism (UGH)
Monster truck rally sounds like an awesome date for 12 year olds.
Men with longer hair than Britney Spears (back when she had hair, I mean).
Quoting Jeffrey:
“Wow. Sexism towards both genders in a single sentence. Congratulations!”
Ooh… I LOVE sarcasm. Also, your appreciation of the complex mental shenanigans I had to go through to create that sentence. Can we date?
Lindsay says:
“And Foucault, I write e-novels. So I guess neither of you are for me.”
Well, I could probably accept your e-novels, since you share my dislike of men who call women “baby” (or “mammie,” as seems to be the Hispanic preference). And I too do not like rigidly defined butch/femme stereotypes or other gender paradigms where the whole thing revolves around opposites. I’m also totally into fandom, or can go there, at least. So maybe we would click?
My ex-girlfriend used to send me “WAR and PEACE” length novels by e-mail on a regular basis. she also sent microscopically written Hallmark cards. Holy cow, if you ever want to lose your vision, I can set you up with a really sweet girl…
I’ve never felt I could afford to be picky. Yet, while I’ve had very few relationships, they have generally been good.
I don’t think I have “deal-breakers” as such; I recognize that one does not shop for people in catalogs and so there are bound to be conflicts. When I run into a conflict in taste, world-views, or fundamental values, I express my take on it and let her express hers, and we’ll see which one predominates. Sometimes I can just have an intrest she doesn’t share or vice-versa; sometimes she brings me around to appreciating something I didn’t before–and vice versa.
Or sometimes the gaps have been too large. Then generally she is the one who breaks it off with me. I don’t like to close doors. But sometimes they must be closed by someone.
I think that when I am dealing with a woman who is bigoted, mean, or incredibly stupid on some important matter–she won’t even let a relationship get started. It would be too tedious for her to deal with my arguments and resistance. So the problem doesn’t arise for me.
It boils down to integrity. A person with integrity may or may not hold some bizarre or even offensive beliefs in principle, but what matters is what they would do in practice–and would they revise their beliefs in the light of that practice. Most of my (mere handful)of relationships have been with women of great integrity. In principle it seems a bit mean-spirited to assume that integrity always comes attached to certain beliefs and tastes and never to cwertain others.
That said–these women also pretty much agreed with me on abstracts, at least insofar as these boiled down to pragmatic choices.
The fact is–they were generally very together, very clear and honest and not afraid to let me know what they found obnoxious about me. I like strong women, and I don’t think it’s an accident such women tend to be progressive in just about every possible way.
So I’m not saying “no Republican fundamentalist chicks need apply.”
But I doubt any such would even speak to me–unless deep down they were looking for a way to evolve away from these positions. I too try to be strong, open, and clear, and this seems to effectively repel any of those she-demons the MRAs like to tell of–or whom one can hear so much from in the mainstream punditry.
As for mere matters of taste–perhaps I have none myself; I think I can adapt to at least tolerate (by ignoring, if all else fails) just about anything that isn’t actually vicious.
One date. “I’d rather live it than read it.” To. The. Curb.
Not letting me drive/insisting on driving whenever we’re in a car together. I could understand (for awhile) someone being slow to trust me with a ‘67 Mustang or next year’s new Camaro—I’d be the exact same way—but expecting me to give up my favorite activity so he can have more of it = cue me walking out, fast.
Obviously, sexism/homophobia/racism etc . . . and also getting defensive when I call him (or her, for that matter) on something unintentional. Aside from the obvious frustration of trying to convince them it was their mistake rather than my overreaction, the utter nonlogic of responding to “that was offensive, please don’t say things like that” with “Hey! I’m not a sexist/racist/homophobe, so it can’t have been offensive!” is more self-important stupidity than I care to deal with on a regular basis.
Double standards, anyone not capable of doing his own laundry, putting his own dishes in the dishwasher, and finding his own stuff rather than always asking “Honey, where did I put my keys?”
ANY dismissal of my stated abilities or ambitions; condescension when I request to be taught something he knows. This is a big one; I have lost SO much due to lacking courage and support when it came to things I wanted to learn about, and I’m in no mood, ever, to put up with someone who thinks it acceptable to cast doubt on my abilities, or to mock my desire to gain expertise on something.
Any obliviousness to nonverbal cues in bed; little random things trigger unease, sometimes just thoughts that come to mind, or acts that in a slightly altered context I would greatly enjoy, and I need someone who knows to reassure me, rather than push, when I’m all of a sudden not digging it.
Poor communication skills, or not having the inclination to understand what I’m feeling or thinking. I like deep conversations and being understood.
Also, I have random, specific aesthetic preferences, on which I will not go into detail because it’d take forever.
Lucky me I don’t mind being single, yeah?
Margalis the mullet spotting was really quite spectacular however…
I still have PTSD from that experience.
The obvious deal-breakers for me are sexism, racism, and homophobia, as well as classism and any other kind of small minded bigotry.
But regarding matters of taste: I could never date someone who had a terrible sense of humor–and I don’t mean “doesn’t laugh at or tell jokes often,” which I’m okay with, I mean, “frequently tells horrible jokes that make everyone roll their eyes.” A corny sense of humor is a total bonerkill.
I also couldn’t go out with someone who listens to a lot of Lenny Kravitz, who smells bad, whose main source of financial sustenance is his or her parents, or anyone who is a tattle-tale. Also, no god-squad Christians, no people who think Geico commercials are funny, and no picky eaters.
1. Non-reader, as in doesn’t read books for pleasure. Books are my life, and someone who doesn’t read is going to fail to understand too much. Heck, my husband barely gets how important books are to me, and he reads at least a book a week. I go through 5-10 a week.
2. Evangelical. Believe what you want, but if you think it’s your religious duty to make me believe it too, I don’t want anything to do with you.
3. Scientifically illiterate. I don’t care exactly what kind of science you’re up on, but you’d better have a good fundamental grounding in the workings of the scientific method.
4. Overly impressed with my brains. Seriously, every time I’ve dated someone who’s said “You’re so smart!”, or some equivalent on the first date, it’s turned into an utter disaster. I’ve long since learned to back away fast.
5. At least tolerant of SF/Fantasy. Similar to books for pleasure above. Plus a lot of my time and effort right now is going into trying to write such for profit. Someone who thinks of SF&F as a waste of time is therefore likely to think of much of my life as a waste of time.
6. Willing to give me space. I’m very introverted, even though I like people. If I spend a lot of time around people (including my own family/children) I need time alone to find my balance again. Someone who takes that need for alone time as a rejection is destined to spend much of their time pissed at me and I don’t need to deal with it.
Mighty Ponygirl: Ah! I’ve been looking for someone who’s familiar with Rand and BioShock to lay this on: “Ayn Rand-lantis.”
Classism is a big one for me, too. This is, for the most part, due to the fact that I grew up in a different socioeconomic class than the one I will likely end up being in when I’m done with grad school (at least socially, if not monetarily), and I’ve had to adjust to/deal with the cultural expectations of many of my peers. I’ve even been chided (albeit mildly) for not knowing all the right foods, or the right artists/books, or not having been all over the world. You know what? It’s good that you (in the general sense, no one specifically on this thread) have had the means and/or social and professional connections to be able to do what you did and know what you know. That’s not the same for all of us, and it doesn’t make me lesser than you because of it.
Mighty Ponygirl: Ah! I’ve been looking for someone who’s familiar with Rand and BioShock to lay this on: “Ayn Rand-lantis.”
Who is John SeaGullt?
…I’m sorry everybody.
I used to have a bunch of deal-breakers. Had to appreciate the “right” music and the “right” books. Had to sync up politically. Had to be sexually compatible. Had to appreciate Monty Python and the Marx Brothers. Had to like to “have fun”, by which I meant drink a lot and raise hell at rock shows. Blah blah blah. That was most of my twenties.
Nowadays, apart from “Don’t be a friggin’ asshole”, I don’t know if I have any. Racism, sexism, homophobia, wingnuttism, religious shitassery, being proud of one’s deep ignorance and all of that are just shades of asshole, but yeah, I don’t know if I’d break up with someone who was into the Pussycat Dolls or wasn’t a big reader or had religious beliefs (and weren’t dicks about it).
I just can’t imagine anyone like that wanting to date me. I’m a long-haired atheist stoner liberal heavy reader bohemian who listens to primarily blues, soul music and pre-1993 country music. I don’t think I have to worry about weeding out anyone apart from women looking for the educated redneck version of Dude Lewbowski, and believe you me, those women are few and far between.
“-The Butlerian Jihad
by Harq al-Ada ”
Brian Herbert is one of my deal-breakers.”
Mine too. The quote was in Children of Dune I think, not Brian Herbert’s The Butlerian Jihad. It was supposed to be a quote from Harq al-Ada’s commentaries on the Butlerian Jihad.
As in the war, not the book.
Jonathan, you will NOT be dating Jenny.
My deal breaker: people SO smug about “I don’t watch TEE VEE…..” yawn.
Oh, and those who find Sedaris (both/either of ‘em) funny.
My deal breaker: people SO smug about “I don’t watch TEE VEE…..” yawn
I’ve gotten “I don’t even own a TV [therefore I am superior to you philistines]” a lot, which is even worse then “Oh, I don’t even watch TV.” Which I find to be really silly; even if you hate television shows, do they even watch movies on DVD? For such enlightened people, they sure love to rub in the fact that they willingly shut themselves off from about 3/4ths of popular entertainment.
Assuming that we’re talking about taste stuff, and not value mismatches… because I mean, naturally I’m going to want to date someone who isn’t a fundie, because I’m not a total masochist.
But past that… I don’t think I pay enough attention, or something, because I don’t know what my taste dealbreakers are. Reading is important to me, but so is living. Cats are important to me, but currently I’m on hiatus, and this guy I’m dating is allergic to them. Computers and such geekery is a huge part of my brain, but none of them who I’m dating are huge computer geeks.
(And I mean, if I wanted an author dealbreaker, I’d bloody well go with Terry Pratchett, because damn.)
Primarily, I want and look for kindness and a decent sense of humour. Everything else, taste-wise, is flexible.
well, Tapetum, I think I meet most of your wishes!
?:~)
Anyways, I can’t afford to be picky, since I’m visibly impaired. If I had a choice, I’d pretty much have the general no assholes rule.
The odd thing is, I’m pretty much the same as Tapetum, but I don’t really have dealbreakers, since I pretty much try to find the best side of people rather than what I can’t tolerate. I mark that down to inexperience, since most everyone else seems to develop the firmest dealbreakers after having repeated episodes of why it’s important to have dealbreakers.
Is it more important to have a reason to reject or to affirm? Or is it 50-50?
Linnaeus, you are the first person I read to mention classism. For me it’s not a deal-breaker per se, but I have noticed that relationships with people from a different class background to me tend to fail. My parents were lower working class tradespeople who subsequently sank into the trailer park, but (thanks be to the left-wing Australian prime ministers of my youth!) I managed to get myself a very good education. Now I work in the world of educated professionals, and am surrounded by people who have never paid their way through uni, whose parents buy them a house, etc. They’re great people, but I don’t think they really understand me and our relationships have always floundered on the differences.
It’s not like I steer clear of them, it just doesn’t work when I try to do anything with them.
So I ended up with a woman from the same background, who (as an aside for those above who mentioned this problem) appreciates my interest in gaming (video, role-playing) and often encourages me to take a few hours more on the computer because she has things she wants to do, and she thinks it’s funny when I play games obssessively.
And incidentally, having lived most of my life in Australia, I don’t think I’ve ever met someone under 50 who is anti-choice. It only occurred to me reading the comments here, actually, to even think about it…
It’s definitely not what they read, or necessarily that they read that much, but rather that whatever they do enjoy culturally, they’re able to problematize.
I mean, I enjoy Chick Tracts, have a Bible and a Koran, could imagine suffering through Ayn Rand and so on and so forth, but I would hope no one judges me because I’ve read it. If I expressed general and unconditional admiration for the mentioned works, however, I’d expect most people to run and hide.
Bullying personality, lack of sense of humor, dislike of or allergy to my cats, owning a pet I’m allergic to, and major ideological differences that will affect our relationship. Most of those come under the “bullying personality” heading for me, things like homophobia, jealousy, judgmentalism for religious or secular reasons, indifference to those who can’t do anything for you, that sort of thing. I haven’t yet found a conservative personality, whether politically active or not, who doesn’t fit at least one of those.
Absolute monogamy and desire to have kids with me or aversion to birth control and abortion are also deal breakers.
I find none of those things shallow, though I know people who would argue with me that politically vetting one’s partners is an arbitrary thing to do. I disagree. But then, I’m so shallow I could care less about gender, religion, age, race, marital status (assuming nobody’s lying to anyone), appearances…
My only other absolute deal breaker is someone who has the same first name as anyone in my immediate birth family. Just can’t cope, for some reason.
Of course, I’m the deal-breaker in most cases, few people can live with my assortment of emotional issues and migraine triggers and personality for long. Even with all that, I’ve been with my partner for nearly twenty years, so I must be doing something okay.
Exactly. You can tell that the people in the article live in a huge, diverse city. Rejecting someone for reading and/or owning a certain book? It’s pretty damned pretentious. If it’s all they talk about, that’s a different story. But who hasn’t received shiterature for Christmas from a well-meaning relative? Who hasn’t been curious as to what the big deal is, anyway, about something on the bestseller list? Or, for that matter, just how craptastic IS The Secret, anyway? (I’ve read it. It’s pretty craptastic.)
If someone tells me, “Whatever you do, do NOT read that book,” you can be damn sure I’m going to read that book. Yes, I’ll probably regret it, and whine about how I wasted five hours of my life, but I hate to be told what my opinion should be, so I’m always going to check it out for myself.
I ascribed to the Groucho Marx school…(way back when)
“Any woman who would have me as a boyfriend, I refused to date!”
It meant that ther judgement was seriously flawed.
If I can fall for someone, I will. All dealbreakers can be broken.
Smoking is the closest I have to a dealbreaker, since I hate bad breath. So carnivore diets turn me off, but at least those don’t make your clothes smell and toothbrushes can get the steak away.
Sex must have some enthusiasm rather than seem obligatory. Damn right I’ll reciprocate–hell, I’ll start there.
You can believe anything, but you better be able to defend it (and successfully, which means religious people should probably not bother.)
Read whatever you like, just don’t talk to me while I’m reading and no, I don’t want to be interrupted to tell you the entire plot of the book I’m hundreds of pages into. Ask me later while you’re watching TV.
Dress however you like, but don’t bitch about your shoes being uncomfortable unless you have deformed feet. Damn near anyone can find comfortable shoes, but if you wear high heels to impress me and then bitch about them, I’m not impressed at your devotion so much as pitying you.
Tattoos? Piercings? Dyed hair? Extreme body maintenance? Addicted to exercise? Hairy? Waxed? Makeup? Laughs at me in a kilt? Doesn’t matter, just don’t insult my knees.
I have a lot of trouble finding other people who share my tastes in anything. Where are all the John Carpenter, Phillip K. Dick, Clive Barker, KMFDM fans?
Divorced and practicing law in Ann Arbor.
Deal breakers: pro-life, conservative or libertarian, non-reader, television-hate, passive-aggressive behavior, misogyny, classism, homophobia, racism, etc., political apathy, and being anti-gaming, anti-skiffy, anti-comics, anti-horror, and/or sexually inhibited.
Own a copy of The Fountainhead (leftover from old roommates? gift?)? I could forgive it. Ayn Rand fan? No. No, no, no.
If I can fall for someone, I will. All dealbreakers can be broken.
Smoking is the closest I have to a dealbreaker, since I hate bad breath. So carnivore diets turn me off, but at least those don’t make your clothes smell and toothbrushes can get the steak away.
Sex must have some enthusiasm rather than seem obligatory. Damn right I’ll reciprocate–hell, I’ll start there.
You can believe anything, but you better be able to defend it (and successfully, which means religious people should probably not bother.)
Read whatever you like, just don’t talk to me while I’m reading and no, I don’t want to be interrupted to tell you the entire plot of the book I’m hundreds of pages into. Ask me later while you’re watching TV.
Dress however you like, but don’t bitch about your shoes being uncomfortable unless you have deformed feet. Damn near anyone can find comfortable shoes, but if you wear high heels to impress me and then bitch about them, I’m not impressed at your devotion so much as pitying you.
Tattoos? Piercings? Dyed hair? Extreme body maintenance? Addicted to exercise? Hairy? Waxed? Makeup? Laughs at me in a kilt? Doesn’t matter, just don’t insult my knees.
Dealbreakers:
-Consistently refusing to admit you’re wrong
-Repeatedly showing disdain (even in “teasing” form) for something I like or care about
-Talking down to me in any way
-Taking self too seriously
-Being all into Ayn Rand (mind you, both my current boyfriend of 7 years and I have read Ayn Rand, even willingly, but are NOT on board with Objectivism. It was more about just having an awareness of those books.)
-Picky eater, unwilling to try new food
-Doesn’t read voraciously (I think this explains having read Ayn Rand more than anything — both of us will read anything that falls in our path, even if it’s just for comedy value). I guess this is why I don’t understand dealbreakers based on literary tastes, because I have extremely catholic (small-c) literary tastes. Although I guess if someone liked wanky Litrachoor like Snow Falling on Cedars or God forbid anything by Rick Moody, I might be forced to re-evaluate. That would fall under “Takes self too seriously” as well.
-Hating cats
-Insisting I take your name if we get married
-Refusing to pick up your share of the housework
-Casual bigotry or hatred of any kind: homophobic remarks, racist remarks, sexist remarks.
It’s been a long time since I was on a first date, but being a jerk to the waiter/waitress or being a stingy tipper would be Big Red Flag Dealbreakers too.
Ooo, I thought of another one: Saying anything resembling the following: “I don’t give anything to Goodwill because I don’t want poor people to get my stuff.” One of my friends is actually marrying a guy who said that the first time I met him. He does a majority of the above, as well. We’re all worried about her, quite frankly. She’s set on marrying him though, so we plan to just stay around and offer support (and escape if necessary).
Ok this is shallow…
but I didn’t go on a second date with a guy because of the obscene quantity of ketchup he used.
What I think most of us find is that we have a core set of dealbreakers we’re not going to discard, and a set of preferences we think of as dealbreakers but are not. Witness the number of people who’ve thrown out of some of their “dealbreakers” along the way.
For me (and this is a purely hypothetical exercise, especially if my wife reads this), the core is probably:
-Manipulative behaviour. I’m not gonna stand for it. That’s assuming I figure it out, of course. I should probably lump abusive behaviour in here, too.
-Substance abuse. My dad drunk himself to death and my brother’s got some serious problems of his own. I love beer, personally, but I don’t like to have more than one or two at a time.
-Non-readers. It looks like I don’t have to explain this one.
-Incompatible sense of humor. Any partner of mine has think I’m funny at least some of the time, or she’ll kill me.
-Evangelical anything. I mean that in the generic sense (i.e., “marked by ardent or zealous enthusiasm for a cause”). Overenthusiastic atheists bug the hell out of me, and I’m not a believer. But I do respect my friends who do believe. At least if they don’t try to convert me. There’s a threshold here, obviously, that might vary a bit. But I’m not going to church on a regular basis, trust me.
-Authoritarian leader or follower. I’m neither, and I really don’t want anything to do with either.
Other than those, I’m willing to negotiate. Like Ayn Rand? Hate cats, SF or punk rock? Own a ferret? Maybe we can work something out. My wife has to chaperone on all dates, however.
Scientifically Illiterate. I don’t care exactly what kind of science you’re up on, but you’d better have a good fundamental grounding in the workings of the scientific method.
I don’t want to be rude here — everybody’s got their laundry list, and obviously they will all be different.
But I’ve seen this one multiple times here.
It is possible to have a thorough awareness of the scientific method without actually being a science-nerd. I’m a graphic designer. And yet I’m able to grasp why Intelligent Design is bunk, that sometimes western medicine is a good thing, and how exactly the process between hypothesis and virtually-taken-for-granted “theory” works. I can read the Science page of the New York Times, and sometimes even enjoy a publication like Nature (I was an anthro geek in college).
If you’re a science type who needs to be with another science type, far be it from me (I did admit that ‘boring’ corporate jobs are one of mine). But you don’t have to have a PhD in molecular biology to know pseudo-science when you see it.
Dune. If I ever hear you reciting, “Fear is the mind-killer…” Well, just don’t. Please.
Yea, the hawt ones recite the Mentat cant; “It is by will alone that I set my mind in motion…”
I can’t think of anything like this. Mainly because I’m arrogant enough not to expect mere peons to share my rarefied tastes.
Oh? You don’t read Cicero in the original Latin? Pfft! You can’t discourse at length on the Everett many-worlds interpretation? How gauche. You’ve never seen Big Trouble In Little China? What, have you been living in a fucking cave?!
I should clarify a bit, flashheart. I, like you, don’t have a problem with class differences between me and a potential date or partner in of themselves. Indeed, given the circles in which I encounter people now, I’d never date if that were the case.
My problem is when class differences become the basis for class snobbery. I don’t mean relatively minor misunderstandings - those are just part of being humans with different experiences - but rather serious disdain or lack of any desire to understand someone because of her or his class background. I haven’t run into too much of that, but enough to know I that I really don’t like it.
Beyond the obvious abusive/controlling/druggie/psycho/frigid/poor hygiene/bigot/lying/no physical attraction/bone stupid/etc non-starters…
Republican in this day and age: deal-breaker
Smoker: deal-breaker
Lists shopping as a hobby: deal-breaker
Takes mysticism or religion seriously: deal-breaker
High maintenance: deal-breaker
Clingy and emotionally needy: deal-breaker
Anti-intellectual: deal-breaker
Still living with parents after age 25: deal-breaker
In terms of the other person’s tastes, I have my minimal standards, but they’re generally about what the other person likes as opposed to what she happens to know.
My dealbreaker was religion: I absolutely positively wanted nobody religious, esp. not a Christian. Then I married a minister.
So ironic it proves the non-existence of God.
I dated someone who became a fundie just beforehand. Believed in a 6000 year old earth and “no sex before marriage”.
I think she already failed that one before she converted from Catholic to Methodist.
I could somehow tolerate that lunacy it was the whining and constant nickpicking I couldn’t take.
Nothing I did was good enough. *shudder*.
I think the ‘deal breakers’ list (in my mind) is more wishful thinking.
I doubt I’m going to meet any right wing / neocon women simply because I don’t go to church or attend any $1000 a plate fringe conferences.
“Why yes, I met Anna here at the “Homeless Flesh Recycling / Orphan Crushing Institute”.
Pink Floyd was mentioned earlier, but sometimes that gets complicated. For instance, I once dated a woman who was into Syd Barrett-era PF, whilst I generally lean towards Waters/Gilmour-era PF. The twain seldom meet, I find.
The class thing is real. For me, it even extends to platonic relationships. It’s not really conscious on my part, but I find that there’s a whole worldview gap between people raised with large obstacles in their path and those walking on top of those obstacles.
I was musically associated with a guy from a wealthy family for a while several years ago, and though we respected each other, we could never really communicate on an intuitive level. But over the past few years he’s been taken off the family dole, and after he had to take care of himself for a while, we have actually become very good friends.
If pressed, I don’t think I could pinpoint just what it is about a class gap that makes communication difficult. But I’ve never been able to get past it. Maybe it’s me.
I’ve been married so long I rode a dinosaur to my wedding, but if I accurately recall this thing you call “dating”, Star Trek was my deal-breaker. It’s one thing not to care for sci-fi as a genre, but there were people who tried to make me feel stupid for liking Star Trek:TOS. It may seem shallow, but if someone is going to make a point of how stupid they think you are on something so small then they are likely to do so on the big things as well.
Regarding the class thing — I think this is different for different people. I grew up middle-to-upper-middle class, with all the entitlements that carries. However, I have tended to have friends and lovers who skew more working-to-lower-middle, and have had a significant number of people in my life who grew up all-out poor.
But rich people? They annoy me. To the extent that I know I’ll never get to be a SAHM because I will never be able to love someone who comes from the kind of background that would make it possible.
That said, one of my best friends grew up in a London slum with a mother who supported the family by taking in piecework, and all the rest of his friends ‘come from money’, to the point that I can’t stand most of them.
So I guess it takes all kinds.
the opponax–I understand where you’re coming from. I grew up solidly middle class in a town with a high rate of poverty. Growing up, many of my friends were poor (the upper and middle class girls didn’t like me because I wasn’t stylish enough), and it wasn’t until high school that I had friends in my same social class. It made me thankful and appreciative of what I had growing up. Then, in the past year, I met someone who is young, immature, and comes from an extremely wealthy family. Talking to her was like talking to a block of cement because she just could not understand what life is like when you don’t have everything. It’s like she comes from a different world. It’s fucked up. (And I had to live with her for a while, too. Painful.)
I also agree on men who call women “baby.” I routinely have to tell men to NEVER CALL A WOMAN THAT UNLESS SHE SPECIFICALLY ASKS OR SAYS IT’S OKAY. It’s creepy and icky and insulting to boot.
Since I don’t date and it’s been a long time since I considered myself dateable (the no sex/touching thing kinda cuts out 99% of the male population), I can’t cite any relationship dealbreakers. But I do have some for straight-up friendship:
No bigots.
No cat-haters.
No pretentious snobs who look down on TV, fast food, etc. If you hate Taco Bell, you are my enemy.
No vegans. It’s hard enough dealing with vegetarians.
Nobody who thinks that people who don’t read are automatically unintelligent. I don’t need to read a book to have something interesting to talk about.
No contrary people who decide to like or hate something based on how many people like or hate it.
No Republicans, libertarians, or other political morons. I’m borderline with the, “My vote doesn’t count anyway” people. They tend to drive me a little nuts.
No one without hobbies and interests of their own. (I knew a guy who desperately wanted to impress me, so he started to slowly absorb all of my hobbies. It was fucking creepy.)
We have to have SOMETHING in common. Anything. But SOMETHING.
That story would be even funnier if it turned out he was one of those people who thinks that “hoi polloi” refers to the upper classes, when it actually refers to the lower classes.
It’s been very interesting reading the lists of deal-breakers here. Pandagon readers are a sampling of, by and large, liberal, non-religious, intellectually inclined people. A different blog would no doubt have po