My iPod is already packed, since I’m leaving soon for the WAM conference, but it would be wrong of me not to give everyone else the opportunity to leave their ten random MP3s. But because Friday morning is for celebrating music, here’s some links.
Discussion question: What music do you like, but the fans can really put you off? For rather complex reasons, I’m going to have to honestly admit that Ween fits in here. Not all their fans, but why they manage to attract so many odious Phish-heads is beyond me. I’ve seen them play at ACL Fest a couple of times, so I was able to keep my distance and keep the patchouli off me, and I saw them once at Stubb’s, but for reasons too complex to get into here, I was lucky enough to be backstage. And still the hippie got on me, in the form of some barefoot girl in a gauzy dress that kept dancing into my personal space. Apparently, her flower child muse didn’t respect politeness.
Even though I’m flying out today, I had to go out to see this band last night. If you’ve never listened to the Dirtbombs, you are missing out.
No gimmicks, just dirty rock mixed in with influences that range from Stevie Wonder to Iggy Pop to Yoko Ono.
All the cool kids (well, people in their 30s and 40s) were on our side of Emo’s. The actual kids were next door watching The Hold Steady. Which is Austin for you, I suppose.
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First they take away the cat picture, then they take away the music list. What’s next? Friday random ten posted on Monday? ahahaha …
This is false advertisement! There should be special list for this type of craziness. And special angry cat picture…
The readers are rioting….!
1. “Light Me Up Or Leave Me Alone”, Traffic
2. “Superfly”, Curtis Mayfield
3. “House Of Fun”, Madness
4. “Super Duper Love (Are You Diggin’ On Me?) Part 1″, Joss Stone
5. “Vanished”, Crystal Castles
6. “Temptation”, New Order
7. “L’amour á trois”, Stereo Total
8. “Story Of My Life”, Social Distortion
9. “Bump”, Spank Rock
10. “Sweet Talkin’ Woman”, Electric Light Orchestra
As for the discussion question, it’s hard for me to think of specific bands, but I can think of certain genres of pop/rock and their fans. I liked some of the bands of the grunge era, but I didn’t like how some of the fans became convinced that grunge was The Only Authentic Rock Music In Existence and therefore The Only Rock Music Worth Listening To. I didn’t care too much for the overly-affected look that a lot of the fans displayed as well.
The irony for me was that that kind of musical establishmentarianism was supposed to be the kind of thing grunge was opposed to. I think a similar thing happened with grunge’s punk ancestor, though I was too young to really get exposed to that scene - I was a New Wave/post-punk kid, if I must put on a label for convenience’s sake.
You’ve seen three Dusty and Molly pictures, you’ve seen them all. Unless somebody at Disco Ball Central is hand-stitching some adorable little outfits for them!
1. Head On by The Jesus and Mary Chain
2. Shut Up by Madness
3. Safe European Home by The Clash
4. The Information by Beck
5. Balada Do Louco by Os Mutantes
6. Evil-Hearted Ada by The Flamin’ Groovies
7. All I Could Do Is Cry by Etta James
8. Everybody Wants You by Billy Squier (FUCK YEAH)
9. Lost by The Meat Puppets
10. Big In America by The Stranglers
P.S. I don’t know the answer to the posed question, although I have one longtime IMS in my inner circle that puts nearly everybody here to shame. He’s ruined more than a few bands for me, at least temporarily, the most recent being the Fiery Furnaces.
P.P.S. Linneaus and I share the same jukebox.
Say it ain’t so!!!
I know this screening consideration is just chatter fodder but if you’re even looking at fans, ouch! Your screening process is really ultra super micro-filtered compared to my sluttish “serving all comers” policy. I’ve found that allowing even the occasional gaggle of belligerent polka enthusiasts has it’s rewards. (So sue me, I like beets.)
Besides. I can even comfortably wing “(I don’t want her you can have her) She’s Too Fat for Me” as GOG-karaoke and fend off objections from all directions as a failure of irony. And look … my innate slinky coolness is hardly damaged!
1. People Who Died - Jim Carroll
2. The Only King - James Dunn & the Western Set (not released yet, but soon)
3. Just About To Die - Doug Kwartler
4. Save Me (acoustic version) - Aimee Mann
5. Superstar - Sheryl Crow
6. Genessee - Huckleberry
7. Doin’ You - The Connells
8. A Pillow of Winds - Pink Floyd
9. Far Away - Mocha Lab
10. Mr. Harris - Aimee Mann (double Aimee shot today, very nice)
Bonus:
Old Friends - Simon & Garfunkel
In answer to Amanda’s bands-in-spite-of-fans question, I have to say EVERYONE. It really doesn’t matter who I see live, there’s always some dingus in the crowd who threatens to ruin the experience for me. It’s why I tend to listen to music at home now.
That said, the worst experience in that vein was the last Pink Floyd tour in 1994. Some guy behind me had taken waaaaaay too much of waaaay too many things, and spent a good portion of the show falling obliviously forward into my back. When the inflatable pigs with the glowing eyes came out, he went completely apeshit and started clinging to everyone around him, shouting, “FUCKING PIGS!!!! FUCKING PIIIIIIIGS!!!!”
On a complete rock-dork note, this sort of fan is exactly what made Roger Waters start writing The Wall, according to him. Can’t blame him.
Discussion question: What music do you like, but the fans can really put you off?
Rush. Some of my best friends are Rush fans, but then there are the other sort of fans, whose Holy Trinity is Rush, Rand and Heinlein.
1. Last Night of the World — Bruce Cockburn
2. Buzz Fledderjohn — Tom Waits
3. Do It Again — The Beach Boys
4. Try Not To Breathe — R. E. M.
5. Red Clay (live version) — Freddie Hubbard
6. Pet Sounds — The Beach Boys
7. Can I Sleep in Your Arms? — Willie Nelson
8. You Can Call Me Al — Paul Simon
9. Rouge — Gerry Mulligan
10. Walk Unafraid — R. E. M.
Two Beach Boys, two R.E.M. today.
As for the question, nearly every band I like with a measure of popularity falls into that category for me (Dave Matthews Band, U2, etc.). I tend to steer away from a lot of shows for that reason: I like what I like, and I’d rather not give a fuck about what other people think about it. My favorite live act right now is The Bad Plus, and most people I run into haven’t even heard of them.
ah, fans that annoy me, of music that I love- I will always be annoyed by some fan(s) that is (are) disruptive at a show. You know: the kids that just came to be seen (scene!) at some “obscure” show, and talk through the whole performance. ruins it for the fans. go home, overly-styled dipsters! and when the sweater-wearing crowd and grindcore kids come together, that’s amusing, not so annoying:
“Ewww… they’re sweaty! When’s the last time these punks have bathed?!” Melt Banana, This is My Condition, Glass Candy, Ad Astra per Aspera… it’s fun to bring these kids together in a humid loft/house show. I bathe, but I go both ways: I like it raucous, but with a freshly showered veneer. I’ll mix my Calla with my Les Georges Leningrad, and Q and Not U shows, any day.
ah, now that’s off of my chest:
1. Swirlies- “Pony”
2. Les (The) Frogs- “Better Than God”
3. Ex Models- “Orbital and Nuclear”
4. Blonde Redhead- “Violent Life”
5. Swervedriver- “Ejector Seat Reservation”
6. Botch- “Frequency Ass Bandits”
7. Fireside- “Not in My Palace”
8. Free Verse (RIP)- “Hug”
9. Blood On The Wall- “Heat From The Day”… mmm… Courtney S!
10. Les Thugs- “Looking in Your Eyes”
Bonus? Bluebird- “New York Minute”
1. Baby, It’s a Fact-Hello Goodbye
2, Tubthumping-Chumbawumba
3. Dethbed-Alkaline Trio
4. Ma and Pa-Fishbone
5. Baby, It’s Cold Outside-Nina Simone
6. Ghetto Cowboy-Mo Thugs
7. Chapter 12- God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens
[huh? Do over!]
7. Nobody’s Side-Julia Murney (Chess-2003 The Actors’ Fund Of America Concert)
8. Forget Me Nots-Shalamar
9. Government Cheese-The Rainmakers
10. Unworthy of Your Love-Stephen Sondheim
“What music do you like, but the fans can really put you off?”
Classical and plenty of alternapop - sorry, “indie rock” - come to mind.
Generally, artists who attract the sort of folks who imagine that their musical tastes are somehow based on something more (and more valid) than socialization, fond associations, and/or reflexive preferences for particular sounds. It’s hard to take any talented band seriously at first when your encounters with their fans are limited to proselytization or contempt. (Tool is the motherlode of this behavior in my anecdotal experience. I wish I’d found their music before I found their legion of cultists.)
1. “Rideline,” Dubtribe Sound System
2. “The Hanging Heart,” Howlin’ Rain
3. “Pe-we Special,” The Upsetters
4. “Bonzo’s Montreux,” Led Zeppelin
5. “End of a Circle,” Dead can Dance
6. “A Man Alone,” Frank Sinatra
7. An unlabeled track from an unlabeled Josh Wink live set
8. “Zoo,” The Legendary Pink Dots
9. “The Moving Shadows,” United Future Organization
10. “Sacrifice,” Lisa Gerrard
Bonus: “Cymbaline,” Pink Floyd
jfpbookworm: Dittos on Rush (yuk yuk). I Was A Teenage Randroid and worshipper of the Trinity you mention, and the embarassing memory of that phase of childhood made it impossible to listen to Rush for the first decade after I blessedly realized how narcissistic, privileged, and generally full of shit that scene is. I was fortunate to rediscover, while cleaning out the MP3 library a couple of years ago, how their incredible talent is more than enough compensation for Peart’s occasional Rand-inspired lyrical silliness.
But damned if Lee’s voice isn’t an acquired taste. If I’d never been such a fan in earlier days, I would probably find their songs unlistenable.
oh! is anybody else excited by the fact that Swervedriver is going back on tour, in the states? Adam Franklin is ridiculously hot. Left me tongue-tied a few months ago, doing his solo thing.
Maybe it’s just me. I. can’t. fucking. wait.
I’m also not expecting many scenester rugrats, as they will be oh, so, unfamiliar. Well, unless Pitchfork tells them Swerve is cool… then they’ll have to show up to collect their points. god, I’m mean…
Oh, obviously: I also hate “kids” of my generation that say, :…well… they were just reviewed in PITCHFORK, and Pitchfork said…”
FUCK PITCHFORK. Judge for yourselves, aging dipsters!
Isn’t Screwdriver that neo-nazi punk band from the 70s?
My Random Ten:
01. Everybody Dance [08:27] — Chic
02. Borderline [05:22] — Madonna
03. Song of Scheherazade [25:00] — Renaissance
04. I Hate Myself for Loving You [04:08] — Joan Jett
05. You Better Run [03:06] — Pat Benatar
06. Sugar Walls [04:00] — Sheena Easton
07. Stand Back [04:57] — Stevie Nicks
08. Touch Me (All Night Long) [09:33] — Wish & Fonda Rae
09. Freeway of Love [05:50] — Aretha Franklin
10. Bitter End [04:39] — Dixie Chicks
Bonus:
11. Another Brick in the Wall Part 2 [11:33] — Pink Floyd
12. Baby I’m a Star [07:36] — Prince & the Revolution
13. Tuesday’s Gone [demo] [07:55] — Lynyrd Skynyrd
14. Siberian Khatru [09:00] — Yes
15. Madman Across the Water [08:54] — Elton John
16. Moby Dick/Bring It on Home [08:42] — Led Zeppelin
17. Pirates [13:22] — Emerson, Lake & Palmer
1. Crush On You/Lil Kim
2. Macho Macho Man/The Muppets
3. End of the World/REM
4. 59th Street Bridge Song/Simon and Garfunkel
5. For What it’s Worth/Middlebury College Mischords
6. No Apagues la Luz/Enrique Iglesias (this is my “car wreck” song — I just can’t turn away)
7. Miles from our Home/Cowboy Junkies
8. Love Love Love/The Mountain Goats
9. #9 Dream/John Lennon
10. Old Saybrook/Missing Joe
I hate crowds, and people in general, so I mostly avoid live music (which I do like, just not enough to put up with large clumps of humanity).
Wild Horse - R. Crumb & His Cheap Suit Serenaders
Rock ‘n’ Roll Yodeling Guy - Sakura & the Quests
Hello There [Budokan, 1978] - Cheap Trick
Why Don’t They Let Us Fall in Love - Veronica
The Little Girl I Once Knew - The Beach Boys
You Can’t Leave Now - Wire
Nights On Broadway - In Touch
Guns of Navarone - The Skatalites
Let’s Make Love - Sparks
COUPERIN: La Chazé - Mark Kroll
One of my favourite stations on the XM-radio is 48, “Squizz,” which plays “New Hard Rock.” It seems the primary demographic for the genre is male, in the teen to twenty age range.
I’m forty-ish and female, so other than music, I wouldn’t have much in common with my fellow concert goers and they’d probably “put me off.” But I never go to concerts anymore, so this really isn’t much of a problem.
1. “Touched” - VAST
2. “Winter Born, This Sacrifice” - The Cruxshadows
3. “Mary” - Sarah McLachlan
4. “The Painful Regret” - Pride and Fall
5. “Moonlight Dancing”" - Bette Midler
6. “Every Grain of Sand” - Emmylou Harris
7. “Pretty When You Cry” - VAST
8. “Nocturne” - Paralysed Age
9. “All Systems Go” - Krypteria
10. “The Divine Conspiracy” - Epica
Well, I’ve got 25,597 tracks in the 80G iPod now - let’s see what comes up this morning:
1. “Blue Velvet #1″ - WFMU - station promos
2. “Fotomodelle” - Piero Umiliani - Svezia, Inferno e Paradiso
3. “I’m Gonna Dance All Night” - The Equals - First Among Equals - The Greatest Hits
4. “Walking Down Madison” - Kirsty MacColl - Galore
5. “Fiabla Bolero” - Franco Ferrara - Music Scene: Musica Per Radio - Televisione - Films
6. “Satellite of Love” - Lou Reed - Transformer
7. “Let’s Go Away for a Mashup” - Totom - Bastard Pet Sounds
8. “Code Monkey” - Jonathan Coulton - Thing a Week Three
9. “Sequenza Psichedelica” - Piero Umiliani - Svezia, Inferno e Paradiso
10. “Crazy Sally-Ann” - Sit N’ Spin - Enjoy The Ride
What th-? Real random, iPod. Two tracks from the same 60s Italian movie soundtrack? (which I think is some kind of softcore “study” of Sweden) Well, I guess that will happen.
Bonus track: Karl Zéro - “Torero” - Songs For Cabriolets And Otros Tipos De Vehiculos
And if no cat pictures above, how about this one of my boy Hooker from earlier this morning - I was trying to catch him while he was still being unbelievably adorable and affectionate, and just caught the transition moment before he chomped into my foot but good and hard . . .
Just about every time I’ve ventured into a fan community for an up-and-coming musician/group, I have encountered peole who were all “I don’t want this group to become popular”, “It would suck if all the kids at the mall were wearing the T-shirt”, “Would you want to hear them on top-40 radio??”
Well, actually, I do think it would be a good thing if they were played on top-40 radio, and their merch was selling. Why do you care what other people think?
My obvious answer is Metal. Love it, in all of its pure and alloyed forms. But it’s mostly a solitary experience for me, because I can’t stand the younger knuckleheads who think Avenged Sevenfold or Lamb of God is the extent of rockingness. I have a few friends my age who can attest that the intelligent metal fan is a polite, gentle barbarian who isn’t nearly as much of an ass as the cliche says he/she should be.
But ALL kinds of music have annoying fans. That’s why it’s an easy target to make fun of them rather than think about exactly why you don’t like a genre.
By the way, I AM excited about Swervedrivers’ tour. I’m not gonna be able to see it, but I’m excited about it.
And is anyone else jumping for joy over the Big Dipper 3 CD anthology Merge Records just put out?! I bought it while I was on vacation in Seattle last week–it has EVERYTHING they’ve ever done, including a full CD’s worth of recent, unreleased tracks. happy happy joy joy!
You can sample some on my MOG page (I’m plugging here for my friend who just got hired there):
http://mog.com/Dr_Locrian/edit
I used to go to a lot of ska shows in me youth. I was never a skinhead, though they had a certain cartoonish charm (I’m from NYC where almost all skinheads are SHARPS). The whole fedora-wearing, suited thing always looked kind of stupid to me on a 16-year old. So I used to go and dance like a freak every weekend, but always felt a little like I had to try harder if I was actually going to be part of some kind of community.
Also, drunk punk in general is sort of fun to listen to (for a little while, at least), but damn those kids are obnoxious. I mean, in a bad way. There is a bad way, kids.
Jonathan:
Yes, Skrewdriver was a vile white power band from England. Swervedriver was (is?) an indie band, also from England.
1. Open All Night - Bruce Springsteen
2. I Hear Some Blues Downstairs - Fenton Robinson
3. Touched - My Bloody Valentine
4. Who’s Been Talkin’? - Howlin’ Wolf
5. The Living End - Jesus and Mary Chain
6. When Doves Cry - Prince
7. Mosquito Song - Queens of the Stone Age
8. Maggie’s Farm - Bob Dylan
9. Etude, no. 7 - Chopin
10. String Quartet no. 1 “Metamorphoses Nocturnes,” mo. III - Gyorgy Ligeti
and the bonus: Where is the Line - Bjork
It might not be representative of the fanbase as a whole, but a Fugazi show I went to years ago was a little rough. I was still a teen and spent most of the show almost getting elbowed in the face by big dudes with backwards baseball hats on. Not all bad though: partway through the show, Ian MacKaye offered to buy out the ticket of anyone who was being too violent. Awesome.
Wot’s…Uh The Deal – Pink Floyd
Norpo – U.S. Christmas
Trendspotter Acrobat – Guided by Voices
Four Horsemen – The Clash
Taunta – Mountain
Iron Tusk – Mastodon
Hymne II - Wolf And The Devil – Ulver
Life Sentence – Dead Kennedy’s
As Flittermice As Satans Spys – Darkthrone
Shake Your Blood – Probot (with Lemmy)
Bonus –Fractured — Kylesa
i have to agree with the matthew show. most shows i go to have amazingly irritating people at them. i almost stomped a girl and her boyfriend at a sonic youth show. we live near asheville which is teaming with trust-fund hippies who seem to go to all shows. this girl was trying to so the hippie twirl thing and whining about how nobody was any fun. i guess the hate was coming off me in waves bc her boyfriend moved them across the room while nervously glancing my way. i actually almost got knocked down by a twirling hippie at a del mccoury show and my friend got elbowed in the head.
at both melvins and fugazi shows the bands stopped playing an told people to stop being idiots. and at a jucifer show (which we left after about 10 minutes bc she just couldn’t get her shit to work) my husband threw a stupid guy to the ground - he decided to be the sole mosher in a crowd of mainly chicks.
the best fans i’ve seen lately was at the mastodon/neurosis shows in brooklyn. there was this one wasted girl who we had to find a corner for so she could sit in peace, a few irritating hipster-types, and there were some stinkly-looking shirtless sweaty meaty guys (ewwww) moshing on one night, but other than that, people were actually ok - at least i remember it that way.
is drunk punk like gutter punk?
As Dan LeSac from Dan LeSac vs. Scroobius Pip says, “Thou shall not stop liking a band just because they’ve become popular.”
I think of drunk punk as being really danceable like pop punk (which means who knows what at this point, but I’m thinking of NOFX and the like), but dirtier and, well, drunker. Not like grind or whatever else has followed that musical thread among the crusties. I’m super out of the loop, tho, so if anyone’s got a good punk-to-English dictionary, lay it on me, baby.
By the way: When I say I used to go to ska shows, vanity dictates that I point out that I am old enough to remember ska not absolutely sucking, which is to say pre-1995 or so.
I really like quite a few of Tori Amos’ songs and can respect that she’s talented and seems to speak quite deeply to quite a few people. But I’m afraid that if I buy an album I’ll have to join the cult, get a tatoo of her face on my body (possibly next to some shoulder-blade faerie wings), and say things like “Tori really understands my pain and how How Sad it is to Be a Woman!” while painting a portrait of her and I in menstrual blood and quietly humming “Me and a Gun”.
1. Castles In The Sky - Ian Van Dahl
2. Immigrant Song - Led Zeppelin
3. Born To Be A Dancer - Kaiser Chiefs
4. Dream Catch Me - Newton Faulkner
5. Stand Up - Jet
6. 1973 - James Blunt
7. Nancy Boy - Placebo
8. Alright - John Legend
9. Not Like Crazy - Jill Scott
10. Push - Madonna
Oh, Dr. Locrian: DO IT! It’s called “uh, I think I have the flu?”
Jonathan Hohensee: I never said anything about “screwing”. Not into the hate speech. Am an old fan of the shooegazer, and diet-shoegazer. I like guitar walls, and less barking.
If I recall correctly, Trey Anastasio and Mike Gordon were big fans and often talked up Ween in interviews, and it just happened from there.
And with that, I’ll say Phish. I was a pretty big fan for the last decade or so of their existence and I saw them seventeen times, but as much as I enjoyed the music and even the “scene” as a whole I usually found the individual fans to mostly be douchebags.
ok, yeah, i’m so confused about the punk nomenclature. guess i need a disctionary too. my husband calls a group of kids gutter punks here - they are really, really beyond stinky and grubby. it’s so smelly that i have to leave the general area…
squashed, for you- as I miss teh catz too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV6WOXPWYds
Perry Como fans. They don’t move, but their eyes follow you…
Damn, I can never play, don’t have an ipod, but I’m listening to Billie Holiday right now which should make up for a multitude of sins. I learned about this dissonance back in 1984 when accosted by an ass-grabbing fratpig at a Gang of Four concert. I go nuts when a stranger grabs me so I beat the shit out of the guy, but with added relish for assimilitating my culture. The IMS next to me saw the whole thing and was crying so I counseled her, blaming my violence, but she was crying because she couldn’t believe a sexist asshole would be at a Gang of Four concert. She was right, that’s what makes us insufferable.
1) “Go Fish” - Cub
2) “Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad?” - Derek and the Dominoes
3) “Rocky Tims Come’n Go” - Jabe
4) “Chicago” - Frank Sinatra
5) “Gesetzt den Fall” - Ute Lemper
6) “Gold Sounds” - Pavement
7) ” Break into Song” - Parks & Recreation
8) “Booze Up & Riot” - Premium
9) “Someone I Once Knew” - Paul Westerberg
10) “Too Much to Hide” - Joseph Arthur
Bonus: “Dead Shark” - Girlysound (Liz Phair); “Pastoral” - Michael Webster
me too, flawedplan, but I live in hope for my b-day!
I still read the lists, just because every once in awhile, I see some songs that I mentally add to a wish list.
What’s going on - Marvin Gaye
Race Car Ya-Yas - Cake
Neighbors - Gnarls Barkley - I
I never liked Phish (even though I know the sister of one of ‘em), but I am FASCINATED by the hating on their fans! WUWT??
Ha, the Dirtbombs! Did you ever hear the Gories? That’s the band the Dirtbombs’s front-man Mick Collins was in earlier, and whoa baby, they rock and they roll.
Why do I always forget that the Bad Brains kicked ass ten ways from Sunday edition.
1. “Country Boyz” - Nappy Roots
2. “Who Made Who” - AC/DC
3. “Vote With A Bullet” - Corrosion Of Conformity
4. “Underdog” - Butthole Surfers
5. “Boogie Chillun” - John Lee Hooker
6. “Too Much Of Anything” - The Who
7. “Something I Learned Today” - Hüsker Dü
8. “She’s Not There” - The Zombies
9. “The Velvet Edge” - My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult
10. “Sacred Love” - Bad Brains
Bonus: “Pulled Up” - Talking Heads
Discussion question: What music do you like, but the fans can really put you off?
Can’t think of one off hand, but what about the reverse? A band you don’t grok that is admired by people whose opinions you respect? Like… Prince, for instance. The man does nothing for me - no particular dislike, it just doesn’t do it for me - yet folks I like enthuse about his talents. I’ve tried, but still… meh.
First time poster, long time lurker.
Here’s my random ten:
1. MU330–Float Trip
2. Patti Smith–Redondo Beach
3. The Clash–Drug Stabbing Time
4. Sidekick–Rancid
5. Wesley Willis–Feel the Power of Rock & Roll
6. This Modern Love–Bloc Party
7. Widespread Panic–Bear’s Gone Fishing
8. Pepe Romano–Guiliani’s Guitar Concerto No. 1 in A, Op. 20
9. Velvet Underground–Heroin
10. Less Than Jake–Help Save America’s Youth From Exploding
Most of the time fans at a concert don’t bother me; I’ve been lucky in that I haven’t met anyone too hardcore or too violent at any of the shows I’ve attended, and people have been generally good about letting people out of mosh pits if they’ve had enough. About the only experience where I hated the fans was Social Distortion last year. 2000 people, half are drunk, middle-aged suburbanites, add some boneheads and some dude next to me trying, in vain, to get the guitarist’s attention. Also, add people booing the opening act, a reggae band, and booing the acoustic set Social D did at the beginning of the show. Apparently getting out there and beating someone up in the mosh pit was more important than the music. While the music was great, I could do without the fans in that case. It gets to me sometimes how wide the gulf is between the history and message of some songs versus some fans’ interpretations.
I don’t have a particular band whose fans I dislike - but I am noticing
when I go to concerts lately I have the misfortune of being by people who talk on their cell phones or to other people really loudly. Why do they talk loudly - I don’t know maybe because there is a band playing. I want to kick these people. I think they only go to the shows so they can tell everyone they went.
1. 4th Chamber - GZA
2. Twilight Fugue - DJ Spooky
3. Torch Song Trilogy - Handsome Boy Modeling School
4. Hangin’ Round - Lou Reed
5. No Peace Dub - the Upsetters
6. World - The Pharcyde
7. What You Gonna Do - Scientist
8. I Made a Mistake - DJ Shadow
9. Pyramids (Change) - Madlib
10. Mandrake - MF Doom
Bonus - Underdeveloped Sexual Fantasies (Comedy) - Jen Kirkman.
Oh, and the only musician whose work I love but am turned off by his fans would be Del the Funkee Homosapien. Every show he does is filled with self concious fifteen year old white kids with hoodies.
They’re not that bad really, but it’s kind of embarrassing. Especially since I really got into his music when I was that age.
The question:
why they manage to attract so many odious Phish-heads is beyond me. I’ve seen them play at ACL Fest a couple of times, so I was able to keep my distance and keep the patchouli off me
You’re a perfect example of the music fan I loathe with all the fire of all the suns in the universe: the indie rock snob with incredibly narrow taste (i.e. white people with guitars and the hipster approved R&B and hip-hop acts) who’s also a total douchebag about fans of other bands without seeing that s/he’s a total object of ridicule and scorn outside their insular, incestuous, pathetic little fucking clique.
I wouldn’t trade an entire continent of you lot for the dude I met at the Phish show at SPAC in 2004 who bought me a beer and spent his time explaining the scene and the music to a newbie who was clearly overwhelmed by the scope of it all.
Glad I hit a nerve, Henry. Odds are you’d probably like me if you gave me a chance, but it’s better to be intimidated and act self-righteous about it, isn’t it?
oh, come on, Melissa: Have you (tried) hugging a crust-core or grindcore punk, today?
oh, and I guess this is where I get to blare (totally unprovoked?): I HATE JAM BANDS! AND THEIR FANS!
(actually, I know some sweet hippies, I just can’t approve of their music choices- no bongos!)
oh, and moving to Eugene, in August, or Sept. Does anyone know where these “secretive” house shows are? this week, their weekly had an article about the dead/dying house show scene, yet could not mention the names of said houses. argh.
1. Lewis and Clarke - Bloody Coat
2. Autechre - Lentic Catachresis
3. Ozric Tentacles - Shima Koto
4. Richard Wagner - “Enhuellet den Gral!” [Parsifal ][Von Karajan]
5. Butthole Surfers - Jingle Of A Dog’s Collar
6. Bill Nelson with Culturemix - Tangram
7. Greg Cohen, Chuck Leavell, Keith Richards, Charlie Watts, Bobby Keyes, The Uptown Horns & Bernard Fowler - Oh Lord, Don’t Let Them Drop That Atomic Bomb On Me
8. The Pretty Things - Grass
9. Paul Wertico/Gregg Bendian - Pulse Paths
10. John Abercrombie - Unshielded Desire
and 11. The Temptations - Beauty Is Only Skin Deep
As for the Survey Question: Emo fans. I’m not even sure how to define emo, but their fans are the whiniest, most pretentious twerps I’ve enountered since the days of Morrissey and the Cure.
Odds are you’d probably like me if you gave me a chance, but it’s better to be intimidated and act self-righteous about it, isn’t it?
No, based on your writings here and elsewhere, I most assuredly would not like you. I think you have the intellectual depth of a puddle outside of my apartment, the writing skills of someone scribbling in a diary, the musical taste of a Pitchfork intern and the worldview of someone that desperately needs to get out of Austin.
Intimidated? By you? A fifth-rate blogger that doesn’t know shit about music? Hahahahahaha, you have zero self-awareness, don’t you? And for you of all people to call anyone, even just a commenter, self-righteous is the height of hypocrisy.
I only come here to read Pam’s stuff but I couldn’t let your idiotic remark pass.
Come back, Jesse! Please?
Amanda: Unlike Henry, I love your blog (with the exception of most IMS posts), but really…hating on hippie stereotypes is just a bit South Park, and those guys epitomize self-righteousness.
But hey, you’re self-conscious enough to use the words “insufferable snob” in the description of your music fandom, so perhaps you don’t mind that much.
Henry: Shame on you, if you’re assuming that because someone’s a dick about music scenes, they’re a dick in general. Scenes are like sports - plenty of otherwise decent people are real dicks about tribal identity (says the fellow in New England who gleefully wore a Dolphins jersey after the most recent Super Bowl.) It sure beats the hell out of them being a dick about something important.
meh, i’m with amanda here. i used to work at a music venue that got jam bands frequently, and their fans are all a bunch of fucking assholes. dumb, disrespectful, lousy tippers, rude, and yes, smelly. they made all the staff downright violent, as we had to be in order to get through the crowds who wouldnt move even if they were staring right at you and the tray of drinks you were holding over your head and you were screaming at them to move. there was this one kid who was at all the shows who i will always remember becos he was the exception, incredibly sweet, respectful, a great tipper, and as an added bonus if he saw me coming through he would grab the twirling dirtballs out of my way.
my favorite shows to work were country shows, im not big on most country, but the fans were fantastic, mostly 30-50 something working class types who tipped well and joked around with me alot.
It’s entirely possible I might like Radiohead. I won’t listen to them because every fan of theirs I’ve ever met has been a raging cocksucker.
(If you like them, I’m sure you’re a lovely person. We also haven’t met.)
1. Jah Live, Bob Marley and the Wailers
2. Love Story, Jin
3. Datskat, The Roots
4. Born Under a Bad Sign, Cream
5. Brick House 2003, Rob Zombie
6. Tuxedo Junction, Glenn Miller Orchestra
7. Can’t Stop, Missy Elliot
8. MFC, Pearl Jam
9. Zealots, The Fugees
10. I’m Moving On, BB King
Y’all are missing it. The worst fans in the world are 60ish Baby Boomers who sit on the lawn at the big-city amphitheatre and talk loudly about their fucking investments while drowning out the once-kinda-big group that you’re indifferent to but your spouse really likes so you shelled out way too much to take her for her birthday. And then they get on their cell phones and start talking. God, I hate those motherfuckers.
And hippies should be shot on general principle. And whoever said the thing about Tori Amos is right on. Oh, and Henry, you’re a dick.
1. Understand- B.B. King
2. Living Loving Maid (She’s Just A Woman)- Led Zeppelin
3. Peaches En Regalia- Frank Zappa
4. No Knock- Gil Scott-Heron
5. Buena Vista Social Club- Buena Vista Social Club
6. I Dig Love- George Harrison
7. What Goes On- The Beatles
8. Come Go With Me- The Beach Boys
9. Fields Of Joy- Lenny Kravitz
10. Respect (Live In Europe Version)- Otis Redding
Bonus: This Wheel’s On Fire- The Band
Well, I don’t got no iPud - 1500 cds, but no iPod. (Seriously, do you want to rip 1500 cds, just so you can listen to lower quality copies on weak speakers? Maybe if I had 1/10th my collection would it be worth the future convenience. Plus, I can listen to any of them right now without putting out several hundred dollars for an iPod! Yeah, I’m being both lazy and cheap and I’ll probably get one someday, but I’m not in a rush.) But, hey - damn fine lists today!!
So here’s what I’ve played some of, um, this week:
The Mission of Burma re-issues - whooo-hoo! Mission of Burma, ahem, totallyfuckinrocksmaaaaan!
1974 live King Crimson - the only prog band that really embraced gritty rock, in their own proggy way, of course. And John Wetton had some monstrous bass going on! Yes, on the other hand could go from good rocking to Band of Weenies in a heartbeat.
George Harrison’s Brainwashed.
And, finally, Beleza Tropical - the first compilation of Brazilian music put out by Luaka Bop almost 20 years ago already. Some of the most beautiful stuff. Brazilian music has perfectly melded prettiness with funkiness. Gilberto Gil, Caetano Veloso, Chico Buarque, Ivan Lins, Jorge Ben, Gal Costa, Maria Bethania, Milton Nascimento, Lo Borges! Damn, I’m happy just typing that!
Annoying fans, hmm, seems like there have been plenty to complain about, but the ones that are sticking out in my mind right now are the co-workers I had about 5 years ago, all of them 10 or more years younger than me, who just were completely devoted to all things Dave Matthews Band. Good God. They would get all misty and wistful for DMB. Ugh. They were fine people otherwise - we got along swimmingly. I just didn’t bring up music much. I listened to a few things by DMB and could hear how they’re better than an average rock band, but their music just leaves me f-l-a-t. Actually, I feel the same way about Bruce Springsteen. He seems like a real stand-up guy and I’m kind of a fan of his career, but his music just leaves me cold. I think in both cases it just hits my ears as uninteresting music played with great fervor.
New questionnaire: how about whiny or weird singers you like vs. those who sound similar to someone you like, but you can’t stand? For instance, I like Neutral Milk Hotel’s In an Aeroplane Over the Sea, but a friend has tried to get me into the Decemberists, and while I hear the similarities, they guy’s voice just doesn’t sell it for me (I’ll keep trying on that one, though.)
So… who else here is SOOOOO over the “heh, I’m posting comments on teh* internet so I can insult anybody like I never would dream of doing face to face!” I mean, if you want to insult the Bush administration, I’ll join you, but this whole “I crap on your family portrait” stuff is pathetic.
*TM by atrios
Henry:
Why do I suddenly have a distinct mental image of a neighborhood bully huddling under the covers desperately trying to convince himself that he’s not afraid of the dark?
Aimee Mann – Susan
Paul Kelly – I Don’t Remember a Thing
Garbage – A Stroke of Luck
Curve – All of One
Fear of Falling – Candy
Young Modern – The Ravers Hit Town
Mirah – Don’t Die in Me
Golden Rough – Antarctica
Dot Allison – We’re Only Science
They Might Be Giants – XTC vs. Adam Ant
jessilikewhoa, lord seitan:”i used to work at a music venue that got jam bands frequently, and their fans are all a bunch of fucking assholes[…]there was this one kid who was at all the shows who i will always remember becos he was the exception, incredibly sweet, respectful”
That’s pretty funny…you generalize about the character of an entire group, connected by nothing except an aesthetic preference, based on your remembered local experiences, and then take care to point out that “one kid” was a respectful exception?
You sound like an an angry old man spewing vitriol about “rappers.” (A term that incomprehensibly stands in for “hip-hop fans” in the vocabulary of many older people.)
It’s fun to be a dick about music scenes, but seriously, “all fucking assholes?” That’s not sarcasm or mockery, that’s just hatefulness. When you base it on something as insubstantial as your work experience at one job, it’s a classic form of bigotry.
Unless, during your employment, your venue hosted every jam band and you got the chance to interact with every living individual jam band fan, in which case, I guess you might not be talking out of your ass.
I, Blasphemius:
I know what you mean- sort of. I loved the first Decemberists album, but was keenly aware when it hit, and called out the glaring similarity to NMH. so, I felt a wee bit guilty for liking Dec. recently, they’ve taken a different sound, and sound more like themselves?
I guess I’m just glad somebody else hears it, and admits to the similarity. yea!
but, then, I think Mr. Decemberist’s voice on the the first album (have it here, somewhere), is a major part of the similarity. but, my dad was hard-of-hearing, and so was his brother… so what do I know? not to sing aloud to friends?
*sigh* Sunburnt, I get what you’re saying, as more than a social worker. But, really: some people you just know you’re not going to share common interests with, and they’re mere presence is going to be annoying. hate on me- I think I am the biggest offender, here, when it comes to hating on jam bands and hippies (the young ones, and that includes frat-rock and DMB (DUMB!)). and, I am totally aware that makes me a bitch. don’t care. can’t stand the music. can’t stand twirling people (well, whirling dervishes are cool).
and, I can totally accept that people have every right to be annoyed by my tastes: from Arab Strap, to Botch, to Les Savy Fav, to The Murder City Devils and Smog. it’s okay to recognize that someone else’s interests might make it difficult to forge a friendship. that’s life.
my fiance’ just said: “it’s not like I called them Republicans, or anything”. true.
Holly: “some people you just know you’re not going to share common interests with, and they’re mere presence is going to be annoying.”
I really don’t “just know” that. There are people whose behavior I find annoying in my presence, but I can’t imagine being annoyed by the presence of people with different interests. And that’s still not as bad as making assumptions about the character or probable behavior of others based on their musical tastes.
” I think I am the biggest offender, here, when it comes to hating on jam bands and hippies (the young ones, and that includes frat-rock and DMB (DUMB!)). I am totally aware that makes me a bitch.”
Fine, but are you aware that it makes you a bigot? “Bitch” is a bit too vague and cop-outish to be accurate.
I used to frequent a nightclub - the only one in a small town - that attracted a lot of thug wannabes whenever they’d host a hip-hop act. It’s reasonable for me to say, “Most of the hip-hop fans at that club were macho thug wannabes.” It would be bigoted to generalize that experience and apply my observation to an entire class of people, like “Hip-hop fans are a bunch of macho thug wannabes.” See the difference?
It’s crazy to me that so many otherwise decent people turn into bigoted dicks about matters of aesthetic taste. It’s like a version of the worst aspects of sports fandom for people who usually like to pretend they’re above tribalism.
Amanda: Unlike Henry, I love your blog (with the exception of most IMS posts), but really…hating on hippie stereotypes is just a bit South Park, and those guys epitomize self-righteousness.
Apart from the self-righteousness, it’s the laziness involved that bugs me. Patchouli? That’s the best you got? At least when I was stereotyping Amanda’s hipster thing, I didn’t mention thick black glasses and standing at gigs with your arms folded. Um, until now!
Why do I suddenly have a distinct mental image of a neighborhood bully huddling under the covers desperately trying to convince himself that he’s not afraid of the dark?
Nice to see that Amanda’s not the only one playing the “dude with a small dick is soooooo awed by the awesome intellect, fluid prose style and stunning knowledge of a wide variety of musical styles of Amanda Marcotte that he’s in a corner in the fetal position, he so can’t handle teh awesomeness!!11!!” card.
It can’t possibly be that there’s people out there that think she’s a totally shitty blogger and that she’s a huge dropoff in quality from the founder of this place, oh no, it’s that evil fratboy “girls have cooties” mentality at work!
Jeebus.
1974 live King Crimson - the only prog band that really embraced gritty rock, in their own proggy way, of course.
Van Der Graaf Generator did that gritty prog thing too, I’d say, the stuff up to and including Pawn Hearts. Wetton was amazing in that Crim, but shhhh, we’re not supposed to appreciate virtuosity here, that’s only for hippies and jam-band lovers.
It’s crazy to me that so many otherwise decent people turn into bigoted dicks about matters of aesthetic taste. It’s like a version of the worst aspects of sports fandom for people who usually like to pretend they’re above tribalism.
As noted by Felagund, I’m guilty of that. You want to see that mentality taken to the limit? If you dare, go on an opera board, like Parterre Box or Opera-L, in a discussion about the merits of various singers. The amount of vitriol and bad feelings slung around because, say, you don’t think Debra Voigt is the ultimate Kaiserin in Die Frau Ohne Schatten is astonishing. Maria Callas fans are the worst of the worst, IMO. She’s a saint, flawless in all ways and don’t you forget it!
Sorry Sunburt, I missed this:
Henry: Shame on you, if you’re assuming that because someone’s a dick about music scenes, they’re a dick in general.
That wasn’t what I was reacting to, I addressed my initial comment to her with some (intentional) stereotyping of my own. As someone whose three big musical passions are early 70’s prog rock, 20th century opera and atonal/serialist orchestral music, I’m acutely aware of the tediousness of being placed in a social box based merely on what’s on my iPod (Prog: Hippie! Opera: Elitist snob! Atonality: You only like it because it makes you look intelligent!).
It was the snotty “You’d like me if you knew me” and especially Amanda playing the “dude with small dick etc. etc.” card combined with the utter lack of self-awareness involved in chiding someone for *their* self-righteousness that I later reacted to. Those are perfect examples of why I think she’s a shitty, way overrated blogger, they permeate her writing IMO.
Henry:
I like how you appear to honestly think that none of us can recognize desperate, overcompensating projection when we see it. It’s almost as if you’re some kind of pompous jackass with absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever.
You know, exactly what you accuse Amanda of being.
So you’re proud of joining the MRAs, the Christian fascists, and the let-them-eat-cake libertarians in the We Hate Amanda Club. Do you want a cookie, or something?
Dude, Amanda may be a snotty elitist (or something), but at least she’s honest about it. You don’t even have that going for you.
Henry H. — while I’m not a fan of the pissing match you’re in, I’ll admit that anytime anyone brings up patchouli I have to roll my eyes. I mean, I went to U.C. Berkeley and went to a fair number of Dead shows (this was in the 80s), but nobody I knew ever had patchouli anything. It always sets off my warning sensors saying, “hey, this is a stupid, cliched comment about ‘dirty, stinking hippies.” So I tend to ignore any statement in which patchouli is prominent.
Van Der Graaf Generator, eh? I’ve seen the name before, but don’t know their stuff - thanks for the tip - I’ll have to check them out.
Sunburnt- so, you’re missing out on the concept of hyperbole. anyway- I’m assuming from this, that you mostly spend time with people you have few common interests with. for me, that makes little sense.
for some strange reason, I enjoy spending time with people that like to engage in the same activities, appreciate similar forms of art, music, et cetera.
I also do not have any friends that appreciate American football- that probably has something to do with me not attending football games, as I view them as a form of torture. that deeply “bigoted” of me.
Please see: The Queers’ “I Hate Everything”, and Screeching Weasel’s “I Hate Led Zeppelin”.
The Queers - I Hate Everything lyrics
I hate anchovy pizza
Asparagus and peas
Wanting my desert
And having to say please
I hate
Well I hate everything [x2]
I hate the Grateful Dead
Their hippie fans are such a waste
Everything about them
Even Jerry’s ugly face
[Chorus]
I hate working around the house
I hate mowing the lawn
I hate doing my homework
I even hate this song
Screeching Weasel “I Hate Led Zeppelin”
Robert Plant is a slimy fuck
John Bonham man, he really sucked
Those greedy fuckers, those phoney shits
They made their money off idiots
I hate Led Zeppelin [x2]
12 dollar concerts were all the rage
They bought cocaine for Jimmy Page
“Stairway to Heaven” makes me see red
Bonzo’s buried, only three more left
I hate Led Zeppelin [x2]
god, I’m such a BIGOT.
sunburnt, actually, we did get pretty much every jam band currently touring. and theyre jam bands, which means people travel from all over the country to see them. and the fans are assholes. the bands themselves were generally pretty ok guys, but the fans sucked.
you clean up vomit, spilled beer, and cocaine after 1000 flailing idiots over and over and you tell me you wouldnt call them assholes.
full disclosure, my older sister who is now in her mid 40s was a pretty big deadhead back in the day, and through her i met many a deadhead, and deadheads werent nearly as unpleasant as these kids. perhaps its generational. my parents are hippies and i think theyre pretty swell too. but, 20-30 something jam band fans are assholes.
oh, and those hip hop fans were almost all incredibly fun and nice. even the “thug wannabees”
oh, and Sunburnt: reread this:
“…and, I can totally accept that people have every right to be annoyed by my tastes: from Arab Strap, to Botch, to Les Savy Fav, to The Murder City Devils and Smog. it’s okay to recognize that someone else’s interests might make it difficult to forge a friendship. that’s life.”
oh, and full disclosure: I do regularly get along with people with vastly differing opinions on politics and art: they’re called coworkers and fellow students. I respect their right to enjoy what they enjoy. we just don’t run in the same crowds: some like to scrapbook- I like to make appearances in Ssion videos.
The people I hang out with on my own time: common interests. it’s that simple. that’s not bigotry. we all get along and have a good time at work and school.
we just don’t end up at the same art shows, parties, get-togethers, clubs….