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	<title>Comments on: Two kinds of woo contrasted</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Flewellyn, God-Emperor of Tortellini</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503214</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503214</guid>
					<description>It strikes me as extremely unlikely that the US government, or anyone else, could have engineered HIV.  We just didn't have the expertise in genetic engineering in the 1970s.  Hell, we don't have it now.

But it's no real secret that the Reagan administration showed an appalling lack of concern over the disease, conservatives even calling it &quot;God's punishment&quot; against gay people.  The fact that it also spread like wildfire through African-American communities was probably the icing on the cake to those fuckers.   So it's extremely plausible that the Reagan administration deliberately allowed the virus to spread.

Frankly, this is like the discussion about 9/11, and whether or not the Bush administration explicitly planned the attack in collusion with bin Laden.  I don't think that's very plausible.  But the public record does demonstrate an appalling lack of concern about bin Laden's plans, and clearly shows that, despite repeated warnings from the intelligence community, the administration was doing its level best to ignore the possibility of an attack.  So, again, did they make it happen?  No, probably not.  But did they let it happen?  That's a lot more believable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It strikes me as extremely unlikely that the US government, or anyone else, could have engineered HIV.  We just didn&#8217;t have the expertise in genetic engineering in the 1970s.  Hell, we don&#8217;t have it now.</p>
	<p>But it&#8217;s no real secret that the Reagan administration showed an appalling lack of concern over the disease, conservatives even calling it &#8220;God&#8217;s punishment&#8221; against gay people.  The fact that it also spread like wildfire through African-American communities was probably the icing on the cake to those fuckers.   So it&#8217;s extremely plausible that the Reagan administration deliberately allowed the virus to spread.</p>
	<p>Frankly, this is like the discussion about 9/11, and whether or not the Bush administration explicitly planned the attack in collusion with bin Laden.  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s very plausible.  But the public record does demonstrate an appalling lack of concern about bin Laden&#8217;s plans, and clearly shows that, despite repeated warnings from the intelligence community, the administration was doing its level best to ignore the possibility of an attack.  So, again, did they make it happen?  No, probably not.  But did they let it happen?  That&#8217;s a lot more believable.
</p>
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		<title>by: bacopa</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503064</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503064</guid>
					<description>The only factual claim in Wright's rants I disagree with is that AIDS was an engineered virus. But there was still enough foot dragging in the '80s over AIDS to give plenty of ammo for cospiracy theorists. Koop finally came through in '88 and tried to set things right, but the damage had already been done.

Still, things got better and the late Reagan, HW Bush, and Clinton admins made progress. W has been a disaster: W can't even back Uganda's highly succesful anti-AIDS program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The only factual claim in Wright&#8217;s rants I disagree with is that AIDS was an engineered virus. But there was still enough foot dragging in the &#8217;80s over AIDS to give plenty of ammo for cospiracy theorists. Koop finally came through in &#8216;88 and tried to set things right, but the damage had already been done.</p>
	<p>Still, things got better and the late Reagan, HW Bush, and Clinton admins made progress. W has been a disaster: W can&#8217;t even back Uganda&#8217;s highly succesful anti-AIDS program.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mold</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503019</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503019</guid>
					<description>Have not seen the book of which you speak.  However, I have read old medical journals, diaries, and planter business notes.  You want creepy?  Check out how the b@stards bred humans (slaves) like they did livestock.  Read the unedited thoughts of professionals that truly considered blacks as subhuman.  These were the educated citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Have not seen the book of which you speak.  However, I have read old medical journals, diaries, and planter business notes.  You want creepy?  Check out how the <a href="mailto:b@stards">b@stards</a> bred humans (slaves) like they did livestock.  Read the unedited thoughts of professionals that truly considered blacks as subhuman.  These were the educated citizens.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mold</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503018</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503018</guid>
					<description>I would like to point out that the craziest and nuttiest and most conspiracy theory leftists...were the most correct about the war and GWBush.  The CW, MSM and the rest were WRONG.  Rev. Wright does not seem scary after this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I would like to point out that the craziest and nuttiest and most conspiracy theory leftists&#8230;were the most correct about the war and GWBush.  The CW, MSM and the rest were WRONG.  Rev. Wright does not seem scary after this.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ailurophile</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503005</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-503005</guid>
					<description>I haven't read &quot;Medical Apartheid&quot; but I should. It looks like a good and informative (albeit depressing) read.

Middle-class whites tend to forget that blacks have VERY GOOD reasons for not trusting the medical establishment, as other commentors have pointed out. The Tuskegee experiment was one of the worst, but by no means the only time where black people were abused and killed in the name of &quot;science&quot; and &quot;medicine.&quot; It's not crackpottery or willful stupidity - it's past bad experiences. You can't really blame black people for not trusting &quot;mainstream&quot; medicine, or thinking that HIV is a conspiracy designed to eliminate them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I haven&#8217;t read &#8220;Medical Apartheid&#8221; but I should. It looks like a good and informative (albeit depressing) read.</p>
	<p>Middle-class whites tend to forget that blacks have VERY GOOD reasons for not trusting the medical establishment, as other commentors have pointed out. The Tuskegee experiment was one of the worst, but by no means the only time where black people were abused and killed in the name of &#8220;science&#8221; and &#8220;medicine.&#8221; It&#8217;s not crackpottery or willful stupidity - it&#8217;s past bad experiences. You can&#8217;t really blame black people for not trusting &#8220;mainstream&#8221; medicine, or thinking that HIV is a conspiracy designed to eliminate them.
</p>
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		<title>by: the opoponax</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502990</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502990</guid>
					<description>I'll third, 4th, 5th, or whatever the suggestion of Medical Apartheid -- it's a subject that's really started to fascinate me in the wake of all this Rev. Right punditry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ll third, 4th, 5th, or whatever the suggestion of Medical Apartheid &#8212; it&#8217;s a subject that&#8217;s really started to fascinate me in the wake of all this Rev. Right punditry.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kevin T. Keith</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502984</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502984</guid>
					<description>&quot;Next book club suggestion: Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet Washington.&quot;


I second the suggestion. Excellent volume. I had been delaying reading it because the subject was simply so depressing. I finally started the book while writing the post Amanda links above (thanks so much!); it's a revelation on every page, even for someone who knew this subject reasonably well already.

What comes through is the unbelievable pervasiveness of distinctly medical mistreatment of blacks through the centuries (on top of all the other forms of mistreatment). The incredible number of ways people from the highest and most educated ranks of white society found to abuse black Americans without their consent - including long after the Civil War - and the bizarreness and creepiness of that medicalized abuse, is hard to fathom.

The book is not without minor flaws, but it will become the indispensable reference on this issue. Not much theoretical content, but loads of fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Next book club suggestion: Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet Washington.&#8221;</p>
	<p>I second the suggestion. Excellent volume. I had been delaying reading it because the subject was simply so depressing. I finally started the book while writing the post Amanda links above (thanks so much!); it&#8217;s a revelation on every page, even for someone who knew this subject reasonably well already.</p>
	<p>What comes through is the unbelievable pervasiveness of distinctly medical mistreatment of blacks through the centuries (on top of all the other forms of mistreatment). The incredible number of ways people from the highest and most educated ranks of white society found to abuse black Americans without their consent - including long after the Civil War - and the bizarreness and creepiness of that medicalized abuse, is hard to fathom.</p>
	<p>The book is not without minor flaws, but it will become the indispensable reference on this issue. Not much theoretical content, but loads of fact.
</p>
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		<title>by: hf</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502975</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502975</guid>
					<description>Will: presumably arguing that Wright is mistaken at worst, not crazy. His other factual claims (that I've seen) look plausible or true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Will: presumably arguing that Wright is mistaken at worst, not crazy. His other factual claims (that I&#8217;ve seen) look plausible or true.
</p>
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		<title>by: the opoponax</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502972</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502972</guid>
					<description>Shit - bad math.  Should have typed &quot;almost 10 years&quot;, instead of &quot;almost 15.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Shit - bad math.  Should have typed &#8220;almost 10 years&#8221;, instead of &#8220;almost 15.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: the opoponax</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502971</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/25/two-kinds-of-woo-contrasted/#comment-502971</guid>
					<description>Will:

go look up &quot;History of HIV/AIDS&quot; and &quot;Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment&quot; on Wikipedia.  Or, heck, if you don't trust Wikipedia, any other broad encyclopedic source.  

The thing that struck me about AIDS conspiracy theories and the black community is that, since day one, HIV/AIDS has been tied to Africa and African diasporan communities (i.e. Haiti).  Several of the first victims to surface in the US were African-American.  The whole thing was kept as under wraps as possible by the US government for almost 15 years.  It's very easy to see on the surface why people without access to good information could believe it was a conspiracy against black communities worldwide, especially older folks who remember the story from the beginning and not just the sanitized &quot;yay Magic Johnson!&quot; version featured in the popular media nowadays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Will:</p>
	<p>go look up &#8220;History of HIV/AIDS&#8221; and &#8220;Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment&#8221; on Wikipedia.  Or, heck, if you don&#8217;t trust Wikipedia, any other broad encyclopedic source.  </p>
	<p>The thing that struck me about AIDS conspiracy theories and the black community is that, since day one, HIV/AIDS has been tied to Africa and African diasporan communities (i.e. Haiti).  Several of the first victims to surface in the US were African-American.  The whole thing was kept as under wraps as possible by the US government for almost 15 years.  It&#8217;s very easy to see on the surface why people without access to good information could believe it was a conspiracy against black communities worldwide, especially older folks who remember the story from the beginning and not just the sanitized &#8220;yay Magic Johnson!&#8221; version featured in the popular media nowadays.
</p>
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