Thers has a great time mocking Ann Althouse and her commenters who are defensively railing against the idea that they have to see a movie before really registering a learned opinion of it, especially if there’s a strong possibility of encountering liberal values or arguments that must be avoided like the plague, lest they take hold. This comment was, as Thers said, the sort of thing that is so entertaining that you can while away time waiting in line at the grocery store or post office just standing there, rolling it over and over in your head.
How do you know about something you haven’t seen… Easy. By reading about it in greater depth than you’re capable of analyzing by sitting there being spoon fed. I didn’t see Fahrenheit 911 because I didn’t care to contribute to Moore’s wealth while exposing myself to wretch inducing propaganda, and yet I’m capable of discussing the film scene for scene and pointing out every single deceit therein beginning with the switcheroo in scene 1. To an extent you/they lack the patience to endure. That’s how.
Instead of delving fanatically into all the layers of self-delusion that go into writing something like that, I’ll just let you absorb it. But it’s moments like that when I realize why mocking conservatives is so endlessly fun. It’s not just that they’re easy targets, though as a lazy person, I can say that’s part of it for me. But the lack of humility (and concurrent levels of fantasy about one’s own talents and intelligence) continues to surprise me, which does keep it intellectually interesting. You really see how white men can easily be damaged by their societal privilege to have everyone around them blowing smoke up their asses all the time, treating their opinions and ideas as automatically important because of their gender and race. They have no reason outside of personal honor to challenge themselves to be better, and while many white guys do and become the gentler, more intelligent souls that ally themselves with the left more often than not, many become belligerent assholes that are honestly unaware of how other people perceive their stupidity with contempt, because they have a bubble of privilege that surrounds them.
Anyway, contrast that guy’s attitudes about Fahrenheit 9/11 with what happened to PZ Myers. And if you haven’t read this story, I think it’s become official that PZ is the luckiest man alive in the story-telling department, because this is the best thing that’s ever happened to someone ever.
I went to attend a screening of the creationist propaganda movie, Expelled, a few minutes ago. Well, I tried … but I was Expelled! It was kind of weird — I was standing in line, hadn’t even gotten to the point where I had to sign in and show ID, and a policeman pulled me out of line and told me I could not go in. I asked why, of course, and he said that a producer of the film had specifically instructed him that I was not to be allowed to attend. The officer also told me that if I tried to go in, I would be arrested. I assured him that I wasn’t going to cause any trouble.
Read the whole thing if you haven’t yet, because while this section puts it into the top 10 stories ever, it’s not unusual to hear a story about creationists keeping a shroud of secrecy around their activities and internal communications, because they know full well that if they don’t work by subterfuge, they will fail because everyone will know how crazy they are. No, there’s an added bonus that makes this, at bare minimum, the shiny gold-plated feather in the cap of any antagonistic atheist, and I say that as a person that was declared a top ten major threat to Christianity by World Net Daily.
But what I would like to point out here is the clear contrast in fear of just being exposed to a different viewpoint. On many levels. I wouldn’t be afraid to see Expelled!, even though I have a good reason to think it’s unpersuasive, but I’ll admit, I’m wildly curious to see it. I’m completely unsurprised that they’re afraid to expose it to critics, and would point out that this privileging of the truth of what they really think to true believers is endemic to wingnutty, something I spend a lot of time obsessing over at RH Reality Check. The anti-choice movement really has two tiers of knowledge: The understanding shared internally that all contraception, premarital sex, and sex education is wrong and the way they portray themselves to outsiders as people who are just very interested in babies. And of course, the most obvious example of this is the way the Bush administration had the truth of the Iraq war held close to their chest while lying to the rest of us. All politicians lie and spin, but seriously, there’s levels here. I don’t think there’s much in the way of liberal policy ideas where the reason presented to the public for adopting the policy differs from the “real” reasons that the people making the proposal are doing so. I’m trying to be fair here—even the Vietnam War was launched on a specific lie (Gulf of Tonkin), but the meta-reason for the war (halting the march of communism) was both what was said in public and believed in private.
51 Responses to “A study in contrasts”
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PZ’s story is teh awesome in a way that forces recalibration of the Universal Standard Scale of Awesomeness.
I’m going to see Expelled at the first opportunity, in large part because I’ve been closely following ID since the publication of Darwin’s Black Box. I’m fascinated by the social movement behind it, but my first foray into the ID movement came because I’m a scientist and I love to have my ideas challenged. The irony of ID proponents claiming to be scientists while running screaming from contradictory evidence is delicious.
I disagree on one point - the part of this story that makes it truly epic is that they kicked PZ out and let Richard Dawkins in.
Yeah, that’s what I said, Arianna. That it was just a great story, but the extra detail you get clicking over (about Dawkins) is what makes it the best story ever.
*blinks, re-reads* Ok, this is what I get from skimming the entry and commenting while working on a paper.
As though PZ isn’t going to see it eventually anyway. They’re lucky he finds this hilarious, because what they must have done to his interview footage is more than likely actionable. But PZ’s a smart guy, he can laugh at them and sue them at the same time if need be, and in any case they won’t be able to stop him from detailing how they’ve chopped his words from what he actually said.
There’s a part of me that wants to see Expelled as well, although I don’t want to pay to do so. It’s one of those films where I think viewing a bootleg copy is a moral good, the more illegal the copy, the better.
Wow! And Althouse’s commenters keep the fun coming! This fellow seems kinda proves your point, Amanda. Indeed, it kinda has everything:
“Women do this, too. If you’re not interested, they suggest you aren’t a real man, or perhaps that you’re a homosexual, or perhaps that you have a small dick, or perhaps that “she’s too much woman for you to handle”. And if you point out that presuming you know someone would be no good is arrogant and condescending (not to mention irrational, given how often women fall for false signals about cock size, sexual prowess, and fidelity), then you’re just a typical man who can’t take no for an answer. The fact is, many women are conceited and stuck-up and they do think “their pussies are made of gold”. They are explicitly trading away the damn thing, and guys are complaining the price is too high. You want to make a goddamn sale, woman, lower your price. If a lot of potential customers are telling you that, it’s time maybe to mark down your product.”
That guy’s comment sounds like a conclusion you’d reach if your method of “dating” strictly involves women who charge for their services.
How do you know about something you haven’t seen… Easy. By reading about it in greater depth than you’re capable of analyzing by sitting there being spoon fed.
Also worth pointing out that PZ specifically mentioned that he cannot comment on the movie since, you know, he wasn’t able to see it.
I let out a howl of laughter when he revealed they let in Richard Dawkins. Hi-Lar-Rious!
well, mine is made of platinum and does all sorts of neat tricks but that’s neither here nor there. Having not met the commenter in person, I can’t say for sure that he’s been rejected by his blow-up doll or that his own hand falls asleep on him, but I can say his comment reeks of who thinks any woman who rejects his advances should due her Christian duty and submit to his manly authority.
Jeebus, ever think their Saviour wonders why he died for the sins of every yahoo instead of a select few?
in a sorta xtian segway sorta thingy
So pathetic,
Being too far to join family today, I spin one up and turn on the TV expecting to watch the greatest story ever told or something and there is nothing, only a docu on biblical Israeli military victories and the da vinci code. Cause you know there’s no money to made beating swords into swordshares or turning the other cheek. might as well have a 24 hour special on hitler.
I love how that guy’s comment boils down to “no woman can turn me down until she’s actually had sex with me.”
Amanda, you give the Bush administration too much credit. To quote A Tiny Revolution:
Elsewhere on the site, you can find a record of Dick Cheney desperately looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after our invasion.
Well, I don’t think that he was looking because he sincerely thought Saddam had a huge stash. He just knew that a single WMD, just even the hint of one, would be treated like all the evidence you need by the mainstream media. I’m sure it was a deliberate and cynical attempt to make a mountain out of molehill.
I agree on the one hand that PZ’s Expelled story is awesome. However, I’m concerned at the flagrant spinning by the god-botherers. They are already framing this as ‘we had to throw out the disruptive atheist, but we let in the gracious and distinguished Briton’ and they are doing this with a straight face. Mark Mathis is even boasting that he faced down Dawkins and made him blanch. It doesn’t matter how outrageous the lie, in the muddled world of a he-said she-said establishment-leaning press, this stuff takes root.
Good story. Pretty much what I would expect from the Creationist movement, given that it pretty much operates on the schizophrenic concept that ID is both provable
Too bad the story’s about Myers and Dawkins, though. One of the side links on that blog entry took me to this story, which pretty much sums up how I feel about their contribution to a goal I’m definitely in favor of (a better understanding of, and more public acknowledgement of, science.)
erk. “Both provable through ‘facts’ and yet simultaneously so vulnerable to real science that it needs to be protected.”
High Priest Pharyngula shall be the guest of honor at the screening of my new film “Boiled: No Al Dente Permitted” that exposes the horrific bigotry on the part of ID theorists towards his noodliness, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Too many FSM scholars have had their careers destroyed for arguing that FSM is the epistemological equivalent to the theory of intelligent design that features their false idol, The Desert Sky Father. “Boiled” brilliantly demonstrates that FSM is the truthier idol.
If Ben Stein attempts to attend my film, he will escorted off the premises by guards carrying pasta forks and wearing the ceremonial pirate suits which are resistant to tomato sauce stains.
What really boggles the mind is the lengths this producer must have gone through to keep PZ Myers away. Some detective work and/or stalking would have be to engaged in to see when and where Myers was likely to see the film. Then the movie theater management would have needed to be appealed to. In order to involve the police, court injunctions would probably have to be filed.
And what if PZ had gone to some completely unpredictable theater to see this movie? Did the producer have to go through the same charade with every theater screening the film, and with the local law enforcement in each city?
Because WOW. Now that’s some serious fear, right there.
Sorry, Charlequin, but Nisbett’s call for the rough crowd to STFU is ultimately unhelpful. Nisbett would prefer a Vichy accommodation with the god-botherers. I say given ‘em both barrels!
What really boggles the mind is the lengths this producer must have gone through to keep PZ Myers away.
And what would they have told the theater security management? “Don’t let this guy in because he’ll write a bad review of our film and make us look stupid. Use force if necessary”? “This guy might look like a typical mild-mannered bearded professor type, but he’s actually an unbalanced physical threat”? What would they have had to do to convince the management that PZ was likely to fuck somebody up if he were let in? Would that even have been necessary?
OK, so I was just reading a little more over at Pharyngula and now I see how Mathis was able to pinpoint that particular theater and screening. But I’m still in the dark on how exactly he was able to convince the police to get involved.
This is such a crazy story! And so dumb, too.
Funny, I work with some film producers, and generally they have a lot more going on than to hang out at preview screenings of their film deciding who can go in or not.
I just think Intelligent Design is total, complete, utter nonsense and sensible people of all stripes should be able to debunk it without latching it onto an anti-theism train. The genuine whackos support ID because they actually believe it, but people like Ben Stein do it because they know the media will eat up anything with a prepackaged conflict narrative. Getting people to buy into the frame that science and religion are (a) inherently opposed and (b) equally valid sources of knowledge on all topics gives them a wedge to use religion for much worse purposes than ID (like increasing the grip of patriarchy.)
Putting science in direct conflict with other aspects of life that people find important makes it harder to educate them about why using reasoned processes to understand our world is important. Since there’s not actually anything about science (the process of understanding the world by testing falsifiable claims through experimentation) that is inherently and categorically against religion, I don’t think linking actual science (like “ID is not in keeping with the evidence that exists, while evolution is”) with aggrandized opinion (”religion sucks rocks”) does much but strengthen the “omg the leftists will ban church!” idea.
Again, though, it’s still great to see Expelled! get punked like that. It’s a terrible thing and if I can’t expect the media to actually treat it with the (lack of) respect it deserves at least I can enjoy seeing the people behind it get embarrassed.
Women do this, too. If you’re not interested, they suggest you aren’t a real man, or perhaps that you’re a homosexual, or perhaps that you have a small dick, or perhaps that “she’s too much woman for you to handle”.
Yeah, and then they leave. They don’t sit around trying to fucking convince you you’re mean and unfair if you don’t give them a chance. As pathetic as they’ve made themselves look by insulting you for not wanting them (which I would bet cash money never actually happened to this commenter), they haven’t stooped to your level of wheedling pity fucks out of people. They also refer to you as a person and not something to be bought.
people like Ben Stein do it because they know the media will eat up anything with a prepackaged conflict narrative
I would guess that Stein is doing it for the paycheck. He didn’t write, direct, or produce the film, he’s just the narrator.
It’s also possible that he really does believe in ID — he’s an actor, and, well, actors often ain’t too smart. I know he has the media persona of being ‘intellectual’, but seriously, the fact that he’s a small-time actor and not on someone’s political staff or the faculty of a university kind of implies that, well, he’s not really all that brilliant.
And isn’t he devoutly Jewish? I don’t personally know any Jewish creationists, but it takes all kinds of wacko fundamentalists to make the world go round.
Ben Stein needs a career, just as Kirk Cameron, Britney 1.0, or Britney 2.0. Once you’ve been in the limelight, it’s tough to give it up. If the commentator that Thers is quoting is willing to move, may I suggest the rural areas. The competition for dates is non-existant because your peers are toothless, uneducated, unwashed (literally), non-working, incest products. Women put up with what is here.
All the indications are that this was spur-of-the-moment stupidity. Mathis spotted Myers in the queue and decided to kick him out. The police was the guy doing door duty to check for recording devices, phones etc.
I dunno, I heard a rumor that FSM is really linguini and I wonder how well the fundamentalist pastafarians will take any deviation to the divine recipe book.
Mathis spotted Myers in the queue and decided to kick him out.
Yeah, see, that’s the thing. As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, Mathis doesn’t own the theater, and thus there’s still a level of convincing that has to happen. Which is about 20 different kinds of stupid.
And again, real grownup movie producers don’t even attend these things, let alone personally ejecting people they don’t like.
the opoponax:
Ben Stein (when he’s not busy being an avowed anti-choice advocate or running apologetic defense screens for Nixon) is a pretty serious proponent of ID and virulent opponent of evolution: he’s got a post on the Expelled! site about the topic, and his Wikipedia entry cites several other sources where he discusses his views on the matter. His views on pretty much everything are pretty freaking terrible.
Yes, well he’s probably the only one of Nixon’s boys who hasn’t worked in the Bush Administration. He’s gotta contribute somehow…
If Myers were mean, he would own the movie theater. Denial of public accommodation on the basis of race creed or color…
Anyone who wants to see “Expelled”, please buy a ticket for a different movie then “accidentally” walk into the “wrong” theatre. Don’t put money into these charlatans’ pockets.
I know spelling flames are the cheapest of cheap shots, but I just had to point this out…
(And conservatives were exceedingly quick to squawk about people objecting to Passion of the Mel based on clips and reports without seeing it all the way through - so I went and saw the bloody thing three times (because I couldn’t help walking out TWICE in a rage) to be able to pan it justly and fairly. But they can’t have it both ways…)
The reason Mathis was at the showing was that this was pre-release and the produceres had hired the theatre. They were there for a q&a afterwards, so that explains the situation and how PZ could be refused entry.
Yeah except
A) even if a film producer is present at a screening of their own film, they still (probably) don’t own the theater and thus don’t have a say in who comes and goes unless they’re able to convince the management,
and
B) seriously, real life film producers don’t show up at this stuff. I go to preview screenings of films all the time — you occasionally get the director to say a few words if it’s a big important film festival or something, but no, producers usually have better things to do.
Which makes this about 20 different kinds of immature.
::cough:: You mean like those genius staffers regularly slandered here on Pandagon?
And academics? Brilliant? Wow, take me to THAT universe. Most can’t pour piss out of a boot when the instructions are on the heel.
Plus, Mathis apparently had PZ kicked out b/c he didn’t have a ticket.
NO ONE HAD TICKETS. The confirmation email said you didn’t need one. You just pre-registered and then showed ID to get in.
Which make it even funnier, b/c that means Richard Fucking Dawkins showed ID and still got in to the screening.
For those of you planning to torrent the Expelled “movie”, beware: most of the current torrents for the movie are fakes. Hopefully later on there will be legit torrents.
Disclaimer: Yeah, torrents are bad and evil, etc etc, but I don’t go to movie theaters and I sure as hell ain’t giving the makers of this film any money.
Eric, you don’t know many professional actors, do you?
Basically they had the right to refuse PZ’s entrance. Private theater, private showing, they can throw out anyone at anytime for any reason.
The best explanation I’ve heard is that they knew PZ was coming because of the signup sheet, but didn’t know Richard Dawkins was on his guest list. They “Expelled” PZ hoping he’d get into a huge snit on his “Most popular science blog” about how mean they were to expel him.
Instead, they wind up letting in Richard Dawkins because he was listed as ‘A guest’, and whomever was doing the signup sheet didn’t watch the movie or know who he was.
So instead of having PZ whine about how unfair it was that he was expelled, PZ evelled in the ultimate irony of it, while showing the inconsistancy of their excuses.
As Richard Dawkins said afterwards “Goals don’t come more own than this”.
Actually, I do (film & video). But suggesting that academics are generally ‘brilliant’ or that political staffers are smart, HERE of all places, where they are regularly excoriated for what is perceived as boneheaded moves, is a bit rich.
I mean, c’mon: academics? Some of the thickest people in the world.
*doubletake*
Er, come again?
Confession time. I’ve got to admit that this is exactly the way I feel about The Passion, about videos/DVD’s expounding the theory of the Clinton Circle Of Death, and about videos/DVD’s expounding the theory that Hillary Clinton and Vince Foster were lovers and that she had him killed. It’s exactly the way I feel, in prospect, about Expelled.
On the other hand, I make no bones about my ignorance. In many respects I am ignorant, and I call my ignorance by its rightful name. But then there are things about which I prefer to remain ignorant, and among these are: 1. Jesus Christ, Superstar of the Snuff Porn Flick, 2. Bill Clinton the reincarnation of Cesare Borgia, 3. Hillary Clinton the reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia, and 4. Ben Stein, Creationist Crusader.*
In some cases there is such a thing as too much information, especially when it’s misleading information. JMO.
*I mean, come on. That guy has got to be the closest thing to a total cynic this planet has produced since the days of Niccolo Machiavelli. The idea that he believes in ID enough to defend it makes the idea that a virgin gave birth look non-surprising by comparison.
Wait, doesn’t Expelled prove the “I don’t need to see it to know it sucks” point? I mean, that’s certainly how I feel about it too. And it didn’t even require any additional reading!
That was exactly the thought I had when I read this post. Of course, The Passion is not exactly the only way to learn the story of Christ’s death and resurrection. I make no apologies for loathing Mel Gibson.
My recollection is that the people who made Expelled interviewed PZ Myers (under misleading pretenses) and included a clip of the interview in their movie. They not only expelled a potential critic from Expelled; they did it to one of theri stars . . .
But suggesting that academics are generally ‘brilliant’ or that political staffers are smart, HERE of all places, where they are regularly excoriated for what is perceived as boneheaded moves, is a bit rich.
While I won’t generalize that ALL actors are imbeciles, or ALL members of the intelligentsia are brilliant, most actors I meet would be hard pressed to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Most intelligent and thoughtful people, if given the choice to hold a highly paid and well regarded position as a law professor or political consultant OR be a game show host with occasional bit parts in teenybopper comedies, would probably go with the former rather than the latter.
This is just so deeply beautiful, I can hardly imagine it occurred without the guidance of a divine hand.
…
Oh wait, no. These idjits really arethis deeply stupid, and it’s naturally-occurring stupidity to boot.
And academics? Brilliant? Wow, take me to THAT universe. Most can’t pour piss out of a boot when the instructions are on the heel.
I don’t think that’s fair. I’ve had occasion to meet and work with lots of academics over the last six years or so, and in my experience they’re generally no different from any other group of people: some are brilliant, some are drooling morons, and most are somewhere in the vast middle - i.e., they often have pretty impressive command of the subject matter of their specialties, which can be highly technical, but aren’t especially knowledgeable about other subjects.
Obviously I can’t speak to your firsthand experience with academics, and this is certainly a case where YMMV. But I think your characterization is unfair and, to me, smells a little of sour grapes.