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	<title>Comments on: 17-year-old killed by Taser over shoplifted Hot Pockets</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: deep6</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502978</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502978</guid>
					<description>This will just keep going on and on and on until tasers are treated like the lethal weapons they are, and until enforcement of punitive measures for their misuse becomes the norm, rather than the exception.  The lack of nationwide reporting on taser abuse is only trumped in severity by 1) the lack of nationwide reporting on the number of police officers with records of abuse and restraining orders against them who are still allowed to carry weapons; and 2) the failure of investigatory panels and executive officials to punish cops for irresponsible or dangerous behavior engaged in with or without a weapon.  The assumption that most cops are probably okay people who don't mean to harm others should be accompanied by the assumption that the cops who are bad apples aren't being removed from the force.  That's just reality.  And that's what sucks.  People don't know who they're getting: good cop, or tase-ya-for-non-compliance cop.  You'd think public trust in the judgment of police officers would be a significant concern, such that they would transparently and harshly deal with any cops who cross the line, but they don't.  They prefer the public fear police overreaction with weapons, and use totalitarian tactics like corralling protesters at licensed events or tasing unarmed men in their own homes because of their own reactionary fears.  The violence begets violence.  Tasers should be off the market permanently until every sheriff's office in every county has an independent investigatory panel that is wholly separate from the law enforcement community, weapons manufacturers, elected officials and officers' union reps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This will just keep going on and on and on until tasers are treated like the lethal weapons they are, and until enforcement of punitive measures for their misuse becomes the norm, rather than the exception.  The lack of nationwide reporting on taser abuse is only trumped in severity by 1) the lack of nationwide reporting on the number of police officers with records of abuse and restraining orders against them who are still allowed to carry weapons; and 2) the failure of investigatory panels and executive officials to punish cops for irresponsible or dangerous behavior engaged in with or without a weapon.  The assumption that most cops are probably okay people who don&#8217;t mean to harm others should be accompanied by the assumption that the cops who are bad apples aren&#8217;t being removed from the force.  That&#8217;s just reality.  And that&#8217;s what sucks.  People don&#8217;t know who they&#8217;re getting: good cop, or tase-ya-for-non-compliance cop.  You&#8217;d think public trust in the judgment of police officers would be a significant concern, such that they would transparently and harshly deal with any cops who cross the line, but they don&#8217;t.  They prefer the public fear police overreaction with weapons, and use totalitarian tactics like corralling protesters at licensed events or tasing unarmed men in their own homes because of their own reactionary fears.  The violence begets violence.  Tasers should be off the market permanently until every sheriff&#8217;s office in every county has an independent investigatory panel that is wholly separate from the law enforcement community, weapons manufacturers, elected officials and officers&#8217; union reps.
</p>
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		<title>by: spencer</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502827</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502827</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Why were the police even there over stolen Hot Pocket??&lt;/i&gt;

Because Daryl Turner was black.

Simple as that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Why were the police even there over stolen Hot Pocket??</i></p>
	<p>Because Daryl Turner was black.</p>
	<p>Simple as that.
</p>
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		<title>by: Caren, Creator of Animorphic Pancakes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502822</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502822</guid>
					<description>My dad accidentally stole some shaving cream from Dominick's (Chicago Safeway).  He was holding it in his hand as he was paying from a couple hundred dollars of groceries.  My younger brother, who has Down Syndrome, started to leave and my dad ran after him.  He paid for the groceries, and as he started to leave, the security guard stopped him for shoplifting--he still had the shaving cream in his hand.

They were so incredibly rude to him.  Took him into the office, called the cops, etc.  This is the store where my folks spend a couple hundred dollars a week!

He paid for the shaving cream and left.

Then my folks got a letter from an asshole lawyer at Dominicks offering to settle out of court for $300.

I wrote a letter back informing Asshole that no court in the land would convict my senior citizen father for chasing his retarded son and then paying for the item in question anyway.  I told him he should apologize.

Assholes.  My folks were afraid they were going to have to pay it.  It's just intimidation, b/c most people are going to think that lawyers have a point when they send you a threatening dunning letter.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My dad accidentally stole some shaving cream from Dominick&#8217;s (Chicago Safeway).  He was holding it in his hand as he was paying from a couple hundred dollars of groceries.  My younger brother, who has Down Syndrome, started to leave and my dad ran after him.  He paid for the groceries, and as he started to leave, the security guard stopped him for shoplifting&#8211;he still had the shaving cream in his hand.</p>
	<p>They were so incredibly rude to him.  Took him into the office, called the cops, etc.  This is the store where my folks spend a couple hundred dollars a week!</p>
	<p>He paid for the shaving cream and left.</p>
	<p>Then my folks got a letter from an asshole lawyer at Dominicks offering to settle out of court for $300.</p>
	<p>I wrote a letter back informing Asshole that no court in the land would convict my senior citizen father for chasing his retarded son and then paying for the item in question anyway.  I told him he should apologize.</p>
	<p>Assholes.  My folks were afraid they were going to have to pay it.  It&#8217;s just intimidation, b/c most people are going to think that lawyers have a point when they send you a threatening dunning letter.
</p>
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		<title>by: Blitzgal</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502704</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502704</guid>
					<description>Me, I also know someone who got one of those &quot;send us hundreds of dollars and we'll let you go&quot; letters from Walmart!  This was an eighteen year old college student who had indeed stolen the item in question -- I believe it was a five dollar tube of lipstick.  She was young and easily bullied into paying the &quot;fine&quot; as it had been determined by Walmart.  How is this legal??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Me, I also know someone who got one of those &#8220;send us hundreds of dollars and we&#8217;ll let you go&#8221; letters from Walmart!  This was an eighteen year old college student who had indeed stolen the item in question &#8212; I believe it was a five dollar tube of lipstick.  She was young and easily bullied into paying the &#8220;fine&#8221; as it had been determined by Walmart.  How is this legal??
</p>
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		<title>by: patschican</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502692</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502692</guid>
					<description>A little off topic, but a true story...

I had just finished a long hike in the woods with my dog, had put him in the back seat of the car and gotten in the driver's seat when I was surrounded by three cop cars. In a matter of seconds they were out of their cars and pointing guns at my head. At my HEAD. As Woody Allen would say, my head contains my brain, which is one of my favorite organs.

They screamed at me to drop my weapon and put my hands up. I was holding a cell phone (which didn't register with me immediately -- I remember thinking 'what weapon?'). I finally put two and two together and dropped the cell phone, at which point they told me to tell the person in the back seat to put his hands in the air or they would shoot. I was screaming back, &quot;He's a dog -- he doesn't have hands!&quot; Somehow, it made sense at the time to yell that.

Long story short, when they finally got me out of the car (very difficult -- they wanted me to open the door and get out slowly while still keeping my hands in the air. I honestly think my spleen took over at that point and said, &quot;I'll get the door handle.&quot;) the story was sorted out. And what was the story?

A green Toyota Corolla had been stolen in the vicinity five minutes earlier. Problem is, I drove a green Toyota CAMRY. They didn't even have the right model of car. Mine was just the first green Toyota in the area that they saw, and they drew their guns. 

And I am a fairly small white woman. Can you imagine if I was a black man?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A little off topic, but a true story&#8230;</p>
	<p>I had just finished a long hike in the woods with my dog, had put him in the back seat of the car and gotten in the driver&#8217;s seat when I was surrounded by three cop cars. In a matter of seconds they were out of their cars and pointing guns at my head. At my HEAD. As Woody Allen would say, my head contains my brain, which is one of my favorite organs.</p>
	<p>They screamed at me to drop my weapon and put my hands up. I was holding a cell phone (which didn&#8217;t register with me immediately &#8212; I remember thinking &#8216;what weapon?&#8217;). I finally put two and two together and dropped the cell phone, at which point they told me to tell the person in the back seat to put his hands in the air or they would shoot. I was screaming back, &#8220;He&#8217;s a dog &#8212; he doesn&#8217;t have hands!&#8221; Somehow, it made sense at the time to yell that.</p>
	<p>Long story short, when they finally got me out of the car (very difficult &#8212; they wanted me to open the door and get out slowly while still keeping my hands in the air. I honestly think my spleen took over at that point and said, &#8220;I&#8217;ll get the door handle.&#8221;) the story was sorted out. And what was the story?</p>
	<p>A green Toyota Corolla had been stolen in the vicinity five minutes earlier. Problem is, I drove a green Toyota CAMRY. They didn&#8217;t even have the right model of car. Mine was just the first green Toyota in the area that they saw, and they drew their guns. </p>
	<p>And I am a fairly small white woman. Can you imagine if I was a black man?
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502619</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502619</guid>
					<description>libdevil:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Seriously? Imagine how the “poor cop” feels? Seriously?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, seriously.  Most cops, even the ones on the highest power-trip, are not there to murder people in cold blood.  And if they've put a &quot;non-lethal&quot; weapon in your hand that you end up killing someone with, there are very, very few people who would be able to live with having done that.

Jeff L.:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Bottom line, if the police are walking into a strange situation and they tell you to stop, stop. If you’re not listening to the police, you’re assuming the risk of your behavior.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which is why a couple of hundred mentally ill people end up dead every year -- because cops assume that if someone isn't following instructions, they're doing it deliberately.

Whatever happened to de-escalating a situation?  What happened to talking to the guy until he calms down?  Are the police in Charlotte so goddamned busy that they don't have time to talk to an upset 17-year-old?

That's the problem with &quot;non-lethal&quot; weapons -- they make for lazy cops.  Unless they thought the kid was going to kill someone with a frozen pizza, what was the point of going straight to a weapon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>libdevil:</p>
	<blockquote><p>Seriously? Imagine how the “poor cop” feels? Seriously?</p></blockquote>
	<p>Yes, seriously.  Most cops, even the ones on the highest power-trip, are not there to murder people in cold blood.  And if they&#8217;ve put a &#8220;non-lethal&#8221; weapon in your hand that you end up killing someone with, there are very, very few people who would be able to live with having done that.</p>
	<p>Jeff L.:</p>
	<blockquote><p>Bottom line, if the police are walking into a strange situation and they tell you to stop, stop. If you’re not listening to the police, you’re assuming the risk of your behavior.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Which is why a couple of hundred mentally ill people end up dead every year &#8212; because cops assume that if someone isn&#8217;t following instructions, they&#8217;re doing it deliberately.</p>
	<p>Whatever happened to de-escalating a situation?  What happened to talking to the guy until he calms down?  Are the police in Charlotte so goddamned busy that they don&#8217;t have time to talk to an upset 17-year-old?</p>
	<p>That&#8217;s the problem with &#8220;non-lethal&#8221; weapons &#8212; they make for lazy cops.  Unless they thought the kid was going to kill someone with a frozen pizza, what was the point of going straight to a weapon?
</p>
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		<title>by: Me</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502571</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502571</guid>
					<description>I am personally aware of a Walmart case in which someone was prosecuted for $2.56 worth of photos; the person in question couldn't pay for the photos at the photodesk, had her hands full of other things, dropped the photos several times and finally stuck 'em in a back pocket and then forgot at checkout. It was not me, but I know the person well. Walmart then proceeded to send this person letters to the effect that they'd drop all charges if the person paid them $350.00. Needless to say, neither I, the person involved, or anyone else in our circle, shops at Walmart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am personally aware of a Walmart case in which someone was prosecuted for $2.56 worth of photos; the person in question couldn&#8217;t pay for the photos at the photodesk, had her hands full of other things, dropped the photos several times and finally stuck &#8216;em in a back pocket and then forgot at checkout. It was not me, but I know the person well. Walmart then proceeded to send this person letters to the effect that they&#8217;d drop all charges if the person paid them $350.00. Needless to say, neither I, the person involved, or anyone else in our circle, shops at Walmart.
</p>
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		<title>by: Pam Spaulding</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502548</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502548</guid>
					<description>I've noted that there is an appropriate time and place for the use of a Taser. But as we've seen in so many of these situations, it's a first resort rather than a last resort prior to pulling out the gun. And given TASER Intl. felt the need to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3pv34_le-taser-irobot-packbot-explorer_news&quot;&gt;produce this video&lt;/a&gt; (now pulled from its site), it didn't see a potential PR problem featuring a big black man as a representative of one of  &quot;the most dangerous subjects&quot; a police officer might face.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve noted that there is an appropriate time and place for the use of a Taser. But as we&#8217;ve seen in so many of these situations, it&#8217;s a first resort rather than a last resort prior to pulling out the gun. And given TASER Intl. felt the need to <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3pv34_le-taser-irobot-packbot-explorer_news">produce this video</a> (now pulled from its site), it didn&#8217;t see a potential PR problem featuring a big black man as a representative of one of  &#8220;the most dangerous subjects&#8221; a police officer might face.
</p>
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		<title>by: Flamethorn</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502522</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502522</guid>
					<description>One teeny point here.

&lt;b&gt;By&lt;/b&gt; police. &lt;i&gt;With&lt;/i&gt; taser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One teeny point here.</p>
	<p><b>By</b> police. <i>With</i> taser.
</p>
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		<title>by: tinfoil hattie</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502504</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/#comment-502504</guid>
					<description>A high school boy was tased at a basketball game in my area, about 2 weeks ago, I think.  Because he was fighting.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A high school boy was tased at a basketball game in my area, about 2 weeks ago, I think.  Because he was fighting.
</p>
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