I’d also blogged about this Ms. Emily — http://singlemomseeking.com/blog/2008/03/20/so-what-if-jamie-lynn-spears-doesnt-get-married/– and I so appreciate knowing that I’m not alone here. I’m grateful for the intelligent discussion you’ve sparked.

i meant what i said. okay, yes, i am the one who is going to get pregnant if something fails, if we don’t use birth control.

but if my b/f and i were married, people wouldn’t say “I” was pregnant, they would say “WE” are pregnant.

it takes TWO to tango. to have sex. to PREVENT pregnancy. and it is the responsibility of ALL adults who have sex to use birth control. those poor girls who are now single moms? in many cases, they relent to having sex with no birth control, after lots of time spent on the guys part wearing them down… she ends up pregnant, he takes off. and its then HER fault?

sometimes, yes, its her fault. she never asked for BC to be used. sometimes, its his. MOST times, its THIERS.

na da?

i meant what i said. okay, yes, i am the one who is going to get pregnant if something fails, if we don’t use birth control.

but if my b/f and i were married, people wouldn’t say “I” was pregnant, they would say “WE” are pregnant.

it takes TWO to tango. to have sex. to PREVENT pregnancy. and it is the responsibility of ALL adults who have sex to use birth control. those poor girls who are now single moms? in many cases, they relent to having sex with no birth control, after lots of time spent on the guys part wearing them down… she ends up pregnant, he takes off. and its then HER fault?

sometimes, yes, its her fault. she never asked for BC to be used. sometimes, its his. MOST times, its THIERS.

na da?

And what if you get the “commitment” but it isn’t sincere, or you come to realize that this person is toxic?

Why do women have to be the moral gatekeepers?

And I really don’t think you should create some kind of hierarchy of “better single mothers” (those by choice) and “worse single mothers” those by happenstance.

Finally, if my parents and grandparents waited for the kind of financial stability that I and my fiance have now (sans children) we never would have been born. Many of us, if you go back a few hundred years, are descended from slaves, indentured servants, or (farther yet) serfs. They had very little to offer their children compared to what even the very poor have today. If you really think that people should only have children when they reach a certain level of financial solvency, you are saying that a large proportion of the population should never have children. Particularly in countries where there is a larger rich-poor gap than this one.

And I do not think it is a contradiction to say that women having the power to divorce and walk away creates better behavior in those they just might walk away from. Amanda also points out that these actualized women (i.e., Lauren, for one) are not the ones writing to “Prudence.”

The divorce rate has gone down as society has become more feminist for a very good reason—when women can leave, men have a lot more incentive to play nice.

Can anyone spot the contradiction here? Anyone? Anyone?

The women in those examples she cites are not self-actualized. They are not single mothers by choice. They had children despite not having the commitment they craved from the fathers of their children. I hope that this isn’t the case for most single mothers. I’m skeptical that a mother who was abandoned and who had a child with the expectation of support from the father will be as good a parent as a mother who has support or who chose to have a child knowing that she would be on her own.

But I fail to see a problem with expecting people to get what they need or what they think they need to raise a child before they actually have that child. In other words, if you think you need a commitment from a man in order to raise a child, then get the commitment before you get pregnant.

“Agreed again, and I apply this standard to men too. Men should never be forced to be parents if they don’t want to and expressed it prior to entering into the romantic/sexual relationship. If the woman does not believe in abortion and the birth control method chosen is not one with nearly perfect effectiveness, they should not have sex.”

But if they DO have sex, knowing that birth control isn’t 100% and that the woman will not get an abortion, the man HAS consented to taking the risk that he will be a parent.

Right?

Thanks!

Mythago:

“If you have to shore up your argument by mind-reading a demographic, perhaps it’s not all that good an argument.”

Well, that’s the option that paints women in the best light. The other two options are (1) didn’t properly use birth control or (2) got pregnant on purpose hoping it would solidify a relationship.

Also, I admit, I know more and more women who are opting to just do it on their own.

Dianne:

“Then you’re more sympathetic than I am. I think that people who marry when they’ve known each other for about 2 1/2 days because they’re in loooovvvve are foolish and if they get pregnant/make the other pregnant during that infatuated phase of the relationship, regardless of their marital status then they’re even bigger fools because that’s just asking for a nasty breakup with a child involved.”

I like you a lot. Agreed.

“And can we all admit that there is no way to guarantee that someone will be a wonderful parent or that their children will have wonderful lives? A nice upper middle class couple who has been together for years and is surrounded by friends and family can turn out to be abusive or neglectful jerks.”

Yes and no. Can we agree that a child who has one-on-one time with adults versus hours in front of the TV is going to grow up better adjusted and happier? And can we agree that one-on-one time is contingent upon having the time to spend with a child, which is nearly impossible if one is also working 40+ hours a week, doing all the housework, doing all the cooking…etc….?

“That’s one reason that I feel strongly that no one should ever be forced to have a child. It’s simply not something to be entered into lightly or without consent.”

Agreed again, and I apply this standard to men too. Men should never be forced to be parents if they don’t want to and expressed it prior to entering into the romantic/sexual relationship. If the woman does not believe in abortion and the birth control method chosen is not one with nearly perfect effectiveness, they should not have sex.

SarahMC:

“I’m ready to hear absent fathers blamed for single motherhood. A lot of these women wouldn’t be single if the baby-daddies hadn’t run out, right?”

Did they want to be fathers in the first place? Were they consulted about their wants/desires?

Sophonisba:

“Actually, I have never had to be the one to “make sure” that the man wore a condom, because I do not sleep with infantilized men (lucky me.) If the men you have known require you, as the woman, to enforce their condom usage, what else do you have to do for them–tie their shoes? Zip up their flies? The kind of guy who doesn’t look after his own dick is a dangerous asshole whether or not he’s rapist into the bargain. Don’t patronize women who are used to sleeping with grown-ups.”

I was originally responding to a comment along the lines of, “why can’t men wear condoms?!” My response is, how are these unwrapped men getting to have sex with women who are not otherwise protected? We’re the gate keepers – it can’t get past us unless we let it.

So no, I am not implying that women should treat them like kids and tie their shoes while we’re at it, rather, I am saying that it is impossible, absent rape, for an irresponsible man to impregnate a responsible woman. So, if we assume all control over birth control, how can we experience unwanted pregnancies? Aside from the extremely low instances of failure rate, we can’t.

Instead of the rote demonizing of men for being sexual

And here we go again: objecting to a man’s dishonesty, unreliability and/or emotional cruelty is “demonizing” his sexuality. Le yawn.

Actually, I have never had to be the one to “make sure” that the man wore a condom, because I do not sleep with infantilized men (lucky me.) If the men you have known require you, as the woman, to enforce their condom usage, what else do you have to do for them–tie their shoes? Zip up their flies? The kind of guy who doesn’t look after his own dick is a dangerous asshole whether or not he’s rapist into the bargain. Don’t patronize women who are used to sleeping with grown-ups.