A 21-year-old Harris County woman filed a $200,000 lawsuit against American Airlines alleging employees on a flight to Los Angeles from Dallas/Fort Worth Airport failed to protect her while she slept from another passenger who masturbated to her and ejaculated in her hair, according to a lawsuit she filed last week in Tarrant County.OK. This incident reminds me of something that happened to a cousin of mine in NYC who encountered a perv like this on the subway. He was one of those classic raincoat pervs. She was sitting down on the train, and a man came up to her and opened his coat and started going at it. She whipped out this keychain, which was actually a giant safety pin (about 6 inches long), and opened it up and said she was going to “put this right through your dick if you don’t get it out of my face.”…The woman slept most of the flight, but awoke about 20 minutes before landing when the pilot announced the plane was on decent into Los Angeles. When the woman opened her eyes, she saw that an unknown man had moved into the seat next to her and was staring at her as he masturbated, the suit states.
The woman turned toward the window in embarrassment and in an act of nervousness began to run her fingers through her hair where she noticed “a substantial amount of an extremely sticky substance in her hair,” the suit states.
Needless to say, he closed the coat and got off at the next stop.
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Pam, maybe this will make you feel better, but Greg Hewgill has put up a BitTorrent for .mp3s from ALL the sponsored bands at SXSW. (2207 through 2005, too) 3.5 gigs, 764 files.
http://hewgill.com/sxsw/
My reactions are
1) So Barack Obama isn’t a rabid America hating Muslim, them–he’s a rabid, America-hating CHRISTIAN. That’s good to know.
2) Does that make Pastor Wright a maverick?
Sorry, wrong thread.
I agree - what /is/ wrong with people? That’s disgusting!
“That’s disgusting!”
It has to be the natural result of having no easy access to free pr0n and a working hand…
…wait, in the era of the Internet, THAT’s not true…
The only thing I can come up with is the whole danger-I-might-be-caught thing combined with the unwilling-degradation-of-some-random-woman aspect.
In any case, wow, what a great thing to wake up to…
It is disgusting, but unless the airline personnel were aware of what he was doing, I just don’t see where the airline is culpable.
Even if they didn’t know, if they should have known they might still be liable.
I can’t believe flight attendants wouldn’t be walking up and down the aisles checking on passengers fairly regularly. It’s reprehensible that these men think women are there for their entertainment, but the airline also has a responsibility to keep their passengers safe.
But more important is what would Obama do and would his minister (they ARE joined at the hip) do in this circumstance. It’s obvious that he would support the godless heathen that did this to a woman of god.
Well, unless she was a handmaiden of Satan and wearing one of those sinful tank tops which exposed her heaving breast flesh because then she deserves what she got and more.
Oh, what is a Bush league religious person supposed to think. I think that we all need a good prayer over this troubling incident and we really need to know what the woman was wearing to decide whether to use the large rocks or the smaller stones. It’s painfully obvious to me that it was HER FAULT for tempting this man by being seen in public, without wearing proper clothing for women AND flying on a plane without a male member of her family. We should use the large rocks. The hussy… We must prey for her soul…
/bushist_party_religiousity
You know there are people thinking this… To them, it’s always the woman’s fault. Well, especially after those incidents with SouthWest… To normal people, I wonder how he did this in the cramped space that they allow travelers now in couch. Remarkable… And now airlines have to hire plane monitors? Like it was really neccessary for everyone to stay in their seat when flying into and out of DeeCee National post 9/11.
I’m afraid of Americans…
I’ve done something like what your friend did Pam.
A guy sat down beside me on the subway, however, was full dressed. he started putting his legs apart in a V like guys tend to do, to the point where I stopped reading my book and asked him to please give me some room.
He brought his legs back together. But not long after he started doing it again. This time I brought my full attention on him, and found he was rubbing a rolled-up newspaper against his crotch while he was pressing against me.
I looked at him and he refused to look me in the eye. I told him “Unless you want to lose that body part, GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME!” Everyone looked at him, and this African-American woman across from us asked “Is everything okay, honey?” to me, in the kind of voice that said “Oh, this guy is DEAD”.
I said “No.” as the doors of the subway opened, and he sprinted his way off the train. I just grinned.
I almost wish he’d stayed.
In the middle of a flight, the flight attendants are usually busy with other things that plying room monitor. They have to secure drink carts and deal with garbage duty.
Should someone have noticed that someone changed seats? I suppose but insuring that everyone sits in their assigned seat could get interesting. The last flight that I was on, there was musical chairs there before we took off. A family of four booked seats that shotgunned them all over the cabin. There was wheeling and dealing to see how they could end up sitting together. I’ve been on flights where parents are separated and trade moments with a small child. Is that going to be verboten soon?
No matter how ’safe’ you make an environment, you can’t make it completely safe. You can try.
It does add another interesting component to flying. Usually I sit next to people that share to much of their personal life than, uh, to much of their, uh, personal essences?
ICK! My wife threw an engagement party for a friend.
The ‘groom to be’ rubbed up against her backside in the house when she was bringing out more food. Um, yeah, that kind of rub…
She told me about it later and wondered if she should tell her about what happened.
The marriage lasted quite a while.
It tells you so much about the people involved that you’d rather not know… ICK!
It’s called frotteurism.
OMFG. I will never, ever complain about the rotten time I had on a flight again.
Just about every woman I know who occasionally goes out her front door has a story like this. How do women put with it?!
Used to visit a public library that had to allow the “homeless” access. More than once I exchanged words with men that had followed very young (under 12) girls throughout the stacks. The librarians had tales of people with resewn garments. So, I’d accept her tale and hope that there would be increased supervision.
This is enough to make a person nostalgic for the good old days of Gen. Jack D. Ripper.
“I do not avoid women, Mandrake…but I do deny them my essence.”
There’s a good miser.
This is a not a “what is wrong with people?” moment, IMHO, because it is a single incident, and some people are just crazy. The Japanese problem of “Chikan” (subway/train groping), *that*’s a WTF because it’s so widespread.
I’ve used a lot of crowded public transportation in the US and I’ve encountered this sort of thing very rarely (meaning I can’t remember a personal example). When it happens in the US, the reaction tends to be like what Sarah in Chicago described — the target says or does something, and bystanders (especially female bystanders) are willing to jump in.
My hypothesis is that in Japan the barrier to speaking to someone you don’t know is exceptionally high, and the barriers for women are higher yet. An autobiography of a Japanese woman living in America (can’t remember title/author) talks about how when she goes back to Japan she can’t speak to strangers, because the forms of the Japanese language make it almost impossible to talk to someone without knowing your relative social positions.
What I don’t know is whether women on Japanese streets are told to “Smile!” by total strangers.
Just about every woman I know who occasionally goes out her front door has a story like this. How do women put with it?!
One of the few times I was wearing heels on the subway, some perv started rubbing up against me on a crowded train. I was dressed for a holiday party and, as a cyclist, I do have a booty. I was maybe 27 at the time.
He was wearing canvas high-tops, as was typical of the time. So I spiked him while throwing an elbow.
Not the passively horrified reaction he was expecting. He limped off the next stop in visible pain at each step, doubled over somewhat from the elbow blow.
I got him so hard with that heel that it separated a bit where it met the shoe. I’ve had stupid shoes do that before in normal wear or when caught in a grate or horribly poorly maintained walks in Boston, so I carry superglue when I wear heels. I was going a ways so I was able to score a seat and have enough time for it to set before i got to my stop.
There was a T perv who got nailed a couple of weeks ago by one of his victims and her cell phone camera. He would ride the subway at a time when he knew a certain high school would be letting out, and was well known to the girls at that school as he targetted teens.
When the pic hit the papers, he turned himself in because he feared leaving his house. Nice family man and good neighbor … and asshat perv everyone wanted to kill.
If AA is smart they’ll settle out of court quickly and quietly. More to the point, they’ll do everything in their power to see that the perp is arrested, tried, and convicted.
Apparently there is a very popular rap song by someone called “Soulja Boy” that features the line “Superman dat ho”. One of my daughter’s friends told me that that means “to masturbate on the back of a sleeping woman and then put a sheet over her so that it sticks there when she wakes up”. From what I understand, this song is popular on college campuses and is played at many sporting events. Yes, thank goodness women are finally respected and feminists are no longer needed to insure equality of the sexes.
The flight attendants are not there to serve drinks and collect garbage, the flight attendants are there for the safety of the passengers. If this doesn’t count as “safety” I sure as hell don’t know what does. And most of the time, they do in fact have to monitor people, and make sure their seatbelts are on, so this would have been pretty easy to check.
I don’t think this is an appropriate thread to discuss Japan vs. American culture.
Federal marshals be damned, I’d have slammed that sick fuck to the ground in 10 seconds and continued throttling him until pulled off.
Then I’d have pointed to the mess in my hair as my witness, screaming “look at my hair! That fucking jerk spooged my hair!”
Too many women are trained from birth that their personal safety and even their dignity isn’t worth causing a scene. Why should I be embarrassed that some intemperate jerk spooged me without my consent? I simply refuse.
“Then I’d have pointed to the mess in my hair as my witness, screaming “look at my hair! That fucking jerk spooged my hair!””
…and then Ms Kate ends up on the “No Fly” list while Spooge Boy disappears into anonymity…
Why isn’t the guy named?
The airline might have saved itself a bunch of legal fees (at the least) by having the police greet the perv at the airport.
On the other hand, I see the potential for a great shampoo commercial.
“Once you’ve gotten that perverted jerk out of your life, get his spooge out of your hair with —”.
The guy isn’t named because the woman either did not insist on pressing assault charges against the man OR she was prevented from doing so by the flight crew OR she was ignored when she tried to file a complaint.
American Airlines has quite the bad reputation among business travellers anyway.
Push him out, fly him out, cancel him and let him go…
A guy sat down beside me on the subway, however, was full dressed. he started putting his legs apart in a V like guys tend to do
Where do my fellow males get the idea that even sitting in this way is appropriate behavior? They act as if their balls are so big they can’t sit with their legs together or crossed like everyone else? They may claim it’s about “comfort” but it’s about power and privalege.
No, like Larry Craig, they require a wide stance…
“No, like Larry Craig, they require a wide stance…”
You damn right! When you’ve got to make room for your massive man-rod, and humongous bull-sized ball sack - well if you ladies were manly-men, you’d understand.
Keeping a man’s legs together is not just effeminate, but it’s painful! Okay, it MIGHT be painfull! Well, it LOOKS painful! Men are afraid it might look painful!
…okay. You caught us. It’s not painful, it really is all about making a statement…
De-lurking to share my own subway story of joy. I was standing because the train was crowded, and I was holding onto one of the vertical poles. The guy across from me started rubbing his crotch on my knuckles where my hand was grasping the pole. I’m pretty short and he was kind of tall, so I figured maybe it was unintentional, no need to humiliate this guy — I just took my hand away. He immediately shifted his hips so that he was no longer rubbing where my hand had been. The train ride was really jerky, and eventually I had to put my hand back, and as soon as I did his crotch was all rubbing up on my hand again. So the next time the train jerked, I punched him in the crotch and played it off as though I just couldn’t hold my balance.
He definitely moved away after that. I wish I’d had the courage to say something, but it was 6am and I really just wanted to end the situation as quickly as possible.
Like in Portnoy’s Complaint on the bus!
Hard to imagine how this could happen on a plane without other passengers noticing, unless the plane was almost empty . . .
And I always thought “benchmarks” measured height, not width… teehee, silly me! If the equip is THAT cumbersome, get a wheelbarrow already.
From the story, the pilot had announced they were making their final approach; everyone included flight crew is supposed to be seated at that point. And it was a red-eye flight; probably not that many aboard at the time.
Well, we’re not given much of a choice, which is why lots of us complain and try to come up with action plans on this blog.
On the front page of the Sun-Times today, there was a story about a woman who, despite filing restraingin orders and having her ex-thrown in jail for violating them, ended up shot in a murder/suicide. The last line on the front page said that the laws are not enough and sometimes the only thing the woman can do is relocate, “according to experts”.
How do we live in a society where a woman can be threatened and her only recourse is to run away and hide? She’s the victim, so why is she the one who’s punished?
Because we’re all fucked up by the patriarchy. I blame it!
The flight attendants should have cruised the aisles. They should have seen she was sleeping and should have noticed Spooge Boy. They probably did, but didn’t want to be involved. They didn’t realize that he was spooging her hair and that she would have evidence of the masturbation, so it made their lives easier to let him beat off than stand up for the right of a sleeping woman to go unmolested.
She absolutely should have gone to the police and let them collect the evidence out of her hair. That’s DNA. Then AA should have been required to give them the passenger name, because they know it.
Once I was on a bus–I got on at the first stop, so had my pick of seats. It was winter and the bus was about 90° so I took my coat off and it was around me. At the next stop, YuppieBoy got on and sat next to me. He did the spread-his-legs trick, but I was already taking up my full share with my coat. I was reading, and he sort of nudged me with his elbow, but I didn’t move. So he started to grind his elbow into my arm. I put up with it for too long (as I was still a young thing) and as I was about to let him know he was hurting me, he jumped up and screamed at me “I’ve never had any woman take up so much of the seat! You rude fat bitch!” etc.
Everyone just kind of stared at him, but if there was any issue about it being about wanting more room or being a power play, that totally settled it.
Keeping a man’s legs together is not just effeminate, but it’s painful! Okay, it MIGHT be painfull! Well, it LOOKS painful! Men are afraid it might look painful!
…okay. You caught us. It’s not painful, it really is all about making a statement…
It is fucking painful, Mike. But there’s a huge difference between having your knees a few inches apart and a V position - the last is a deliberate crotch display.
I think there’s a lot to be said for cell phone cameras a way of making the deliberately boorish nervous.
The airline might have saved itself a bunch of legal fees (at the least) by having the police greet the perv at the airport.
Um - they did. From the story Pam linked to:
When the plane landed, employee called airport police and the man was arrested.
Sure, about their BIG, MAAAAANLY, THUNDERCOCK!
RARGH! WORSHIP MY HOLY PENIS!
please?
Bullshit. They never fucking missed a chance to tell me to be more “discrete” while breast feeding (read - cover his head with a blanket until he suffocates). The flight attendants in that section knew EXACTLY what was going on.
That’s just so disgusting, I can’t even think about it. How gross.
Re: space in seating. I think it’s been trained in us that women will always take up less space, even to their personal detriment, than men. We just aren’t allowed to have as much space. We’re expected to be smaller physically, we’re expected to keep our legs crossed and together tightly.
I can’t read the comments in that news post anymore. I don’t understand the cavalier attitude many of the commenters seem to have about what that woman went through. “Wash your hair and get on with your life”?! They make it sound like he spilled his coffee on her or something. What is wrong with people?
I don’t agree that airline is responsible, anymore than any public carrier should be held responsible for riders breaking the law, but at the same time, I think its a little much to characterize this as a “frivolous” lawsuit.
Any lawyers here? Can his name be mentioned in the story?
So many creepy stories don’t mention the perp’s name and yet some do. There was a guy here that was caught with a notebook computer loaded with kidde porn and he was in jail and they mentioned his name. Is that because he was in jail?
When do you lose the right to be declared innocent until proven guilty?
Is it mainly men that do the creepy rubbing or do some women get into it too.
Oh, was the perp’s name mentioned because he was ‘charged’ and jailed? Is that the key. It would make sense.
There are so many sick people out there in this world. And I thought that necrophilia was bad.
Yes flight attendants have to monitor people’s safety but people that get up and move about the cabin would be part of being a plane monitor and not a safety issue per say. I’ve seen many people in my flights move to other seats while the plane is flying along. Hell, if the flight is relatively empty and you are seated next to someone with a huge coat, body, odor problem or mouth, I wouldn’t see a problem with moving. Lately though most of the flights I’ve been on are so full that they are asking people do give up seats which opens another issue that people should hate airlines for.
Heck, the last flight I was on was asking for someone in first to give up their seat. Yeah, that will happen. All for a ‘free flight’. It was a 5 hour flight too…
Is it a frivolous lawsuit? No but to expect the flight attendants to monitor each and every passengers activities and actions and what they are doing under that blanket is being a little draconian, oppressive and ridiculous.
In public we expect everyone to behave like reasonable adults. Jerking off and smearing it in someone’s hair, or anywhere else (I saw what looked like ’spunk’ on a men’s room faucet handle once (In New York no less)) isn’t acting like a reasonable adult. More like an unruly chimp… (Wouldn’t she feel someone touching her hair?)
You never have a right to be “declared” anything. What you’re thinking of is that any person accused of a crime is legally presumed innocent of that crime until proven guilty.
Also, on flight attendants, they sure do seem able to yell at people for not having their seat backs up, for having tray tables down or for failing to buckle up.
The comments left at the article were horrible. People keep acting as though she’s suing them just because they allowed the guy to change seats during the flight. Do these people even read the article? It said she couldn’t get a flight attendant to come to her seat:
“The woman began to cry and tried to get the attention of a flight attendant, but was unsuccessful, the suit states. Finally a passenger in the row in front of the woman comforted her and verified the semen in her hair, the suit states.”
I would sue, too. And as someone else pointed out above, Flight Attendants seem perfectly capable of policing breastfeeding women, but they can’t come to the aid of a woman in distress. I call Bullshit.
Nope, that would be a sign of lunacy or complete disregard for social norms. In other words, maybe a crazy old man could get away with it.
Also, I have seen chikan incidents in action in Japan as well as in New York — only a few times and not personally (I seem to encounter far more of the “guy across the aisle rubbing himself and licking his lips while staring at you”) but far more often than I would have liked. And it’s not like in Japan, all the women are demure silent delicate flowers who don’t say anything. I have definitely seen women say something, even humiliate the offender. In other words, there’s less of a difference in reaction — and it also happens in large cities in the US more than you would think, although in Japan it really is practically an epidemic.
The highly instructive (and sarcastically mocking of Japanese culture as well as foreign instructional videos) “Japanese Tradition” series of videos on dating may be of use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO5IDiYPXPo
Just don’t take anything too literally. Japan Culture Lab likes to mix lots of lies with cunning jabs of truth.
I keep seeing these comments everywhere about how the flight attendants didn’t necessarily notice anything.
He was jacking when she woke up. She *already* had semen in her hair. He’s managed to ejaculate once already, and in all that time no one, not a flight attendant, not another passenger, has noticed anything?
Maybe your American airlines are very different to what I’m used to …
It’s quite possible that the flight attendants wouldn’t see the acts themselves, since they aren’t going to police all movement at all times on the plane. And I’d hate for them to have to. It’s already a paranoid enough experience. They could have seen it as someone going to sit next to a sleeping woman so he wouldn’t have to sit next to some loud, overweight, reclined, or otherwise unfun-to-sit-next-to fellow traveler/s. Approaching the cockpit door will get you noticed, but changing seats probably won’t arouse suspicion. But their lack of actions once the incident was coming to light was unacceptable. I have no idea how to set damages, nor how much this is to prove a point and force new training for attendants or how much is it about money. I bet the pervy perp would be in the lawsuit if there was anything to persue, however. And it’s probably easier to sue him after a criminal conviction. Suing the airline could be a very handy way to ensure cooperation in convicting or suing the perp. Anything is possible, but suing isn’t always about the money.
As for the wide stance issue, I’d have to claim some guilt for that. Sometimes my testicles get deep down between my legs and need to not get crushed, and to adjust them isn’t a good mannered act right after sitting down. I’d be quite nervous if some guy sat down next to me and immediately adjusted himself. It’s kind of like the question of passing by seated people in theaters: do you face towards them or away from them? Is an ass more rude than a crotch? I’m just not sure. If there is some consensus, please share and I’ll abide by the wishes of the majority. But until there is, I’ll just do what seems right at the time.
And my all-time favorite story of a pervert getting his comeuppance involved a woman checking out groceries who had a man place his penis on the conveyor belt. Another customer was getting some soup. Can + penis = trip to the emergency room. Mmm Mmm Good!
Psychobunny, the semen could have come from earlier. A different area of the plane, even. It’s not as if he had to have done it all in one fell swoop. Hell, there could be other victims. Plus, there was likely a post-ejaculatory period of tumescence during which he may have wondered what to do with a handful of spooge. What would an exhibitionistic pervert do? Oh yeah: share. Then, he found that so perverse that he got excited again and couldn’t and wouldn’t help himself again. And so he started up again.
It’s moments like these that I’m glad I’m not a forensics splatter expert. Having to get out a blacklight and decide if the guy jacked off on her while sleeping or applied the spooge manually just wouldn’t make me feel like I was living my life to its fullest potential.
I was reading, and he sort of nudged me with his elbow, but I didn’t move. So he started to grind his elbow into my arm.
I have loudly instructed louts like this, on more than one occasion, about how the line between the seats separates their space from my space.
Yes, I am a bitch. Stay on your side and you won’t get bitch cooties, ‘kay?
I’m flying to Brisbane this weekend. Not only do I now intend to check my seat very carefully before sitting down, I also now have to worry if anyone I sit next to is going to scream “PERVERT!” if I adjust my underwear anytime during a three and half hour flight.
Wonderful. Thanks, dude.
Piator, who exactly are you thanking? Do you actually believe that your right to not be called a pervert is more important than a woman’s right not to wake up with someone jacking off in her face??
AW - humour. Read the last two sentences.
here’s a possibly-inane taking-up-space question.
i’m a guy of somewhat average size, but with fairly large shoulders. there are often times when i’m on the bus that the only seat left is between two people. the trouble is that the seats are the perfect size to sit in - but if i’m to sit up straight, i’m bound to be pushing up uncomfortably against the people who sit next to me and getting nasty looks.
so, of course i sit hunched over with my shoulders rolled forward because my upper body doesn’t fit.
is there a good way of saying “i can’t help it?”
Piator, who exactly are you thanking?
Clarifiying - I was expressing disgust with the tosser in question for once again poisoning relations between the genders, if that wasn’t obvious enough. It’s a British style of humour.
A recent survey found something like 37% of women on the NY subway reported being groped. That’s what started Hollaback, which is possibly the best action plan I’ve heard about. It’s effective, and now it’s national.
http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/
I understood that you were being sarcastic, however sarcasm can sometimes be a cloak for something else. Ignorant Amerikkkkkkk(this could go on forever)an who I am, I happen to love blackadder.
It’s stuff like this that makes me miss the winter weather, in the summer I would lose my protective thick coat….
I love my passenger bag, it’s thin and rectangular, I put it between me and men next to me, though really, instead of me crossing my legs it should be him he kept his close instead of spreading onto my part of the damn seat.
Well, obviously the woman was guilty of contributory negligence, since she fell asleep in a public place.
The airline isn’t to blame if the woman chose to sleep in her seat. It’s not as though airlines expect people to fall asleep in their seats during hours-long flights. If they did, they’d be supplying passengers with pillows and blankets….
Oh. Right.
Jon, when I first heard the story about the perv who laid his penis on the conveyor belt and got it whammed with a soup can, it ended with a cop saying, “He’s gonna wish he’d been buying a loaf of bread.”
Togolosh, at the very least the perv should be put on the no-fly list. You know, the list of people who are only allowed on board after they put on the special pants with no fly.
clarendon148: you CAN help it. Your arms don’t have to be by your sides you can cross them or whatever to make more room. Is the other person supposed to have to lean over and get a crick in their back because you have broad shoulders?
As this was on an airplane, I am not sure if there are Federal laws that control, but based on the article it looks like they are making a claim under Texas law. The initial question is what duty the airline owed to prevent the actions of one of its passengers. The closest analogy I can think of (and one one that the plaintiffs counsel seems to be making in the article) is to the duty a premises owner owes to invitees on its land.
As a general rule, a landowner has no legal duty to protect another from the criminal acts of a third party who is not under the landowner’s control or supervision. See Timberwalk Apartments,Partners, Inc. v. Cain, 972 S.W.2d 749, 756 (Tex. 1998); To the extent that the law does impose a duty, the threshold issue is whether the riskof harm was foreseeable. See Timberwalk, 972 S.W.2d at 756; Walker, 924 S.W.2d at 377.
The Texas Supreme Court has indicated that in order to impose a duty the criminal acts have to be forseable. In order to determine whether a crime is is foreseeable the court looks at: (1) whether any criminal conduct previously occurred on or near the property; (2) how recently it occurred; (3) how often it occurred; (4) how similar the conduct was to the conduct on the property; and (5) what publicity the occurrences received to show that the landowner knew or should have known about them. See Timberwalk, 972 S.W.2d at 757-58.
The upshot of of Timberwalk and the cases that follow it is that the landowner has to be on notice of similar prior crimes and therefore will have a duty to use reasonable care to protect people from such crimes. Therefore if this is the standard that is applied then the first question is whether the airline had had any prior similar incidents, how many, how often.
Assuming a duty is imposed there will still be the question of reasonable care.
While the plaintiff did not sue the perpetrator, almost certainly the airline will join him as at least a responsible third party and his responsibility will be submitted to the jury. I dislike this aspect Texas law because it compares intentional conduct with negligent conduct. On one hand the intentional actor is 100% responsible for their acts. On the other is the issue of whether someone should have prevented the intentional act (while there does not seem to be any real argument of comparative fault in this case, if you sues a landowner for not using reasonable care to stop a crime, it opens you up to whether you used reasonable care to have stopped the crime)
I am curious, assuming the facts are as the article puts forth, what would people award in compensatory damages (not punitive damages against the perpetrator). Cases that are primarily psychological injuries are the hardest to evaluate. With a physical injury there are usually lost wages and medical bills that serve as a start for awards, emotional damages tend to be awarded in relation to those, here there does not seem to be such bench marks.
As for why they did not use the perpetrators name. Here is my guess. Newspapers have a limited privilege from libel when reporting coiurt proceedings, so basically they can report the allegations in the lawsuit without a problem. The aricle says the perpetrator was arrested but doesn’t say whether he was convicted of anything. Either he wasn’t or they hadn’t found out by the time of the filing of the story. If he wasn’t convicted I doubt they would want to use his name since there were no allegations in the civil suit against him.
my arms -are- often crossed. or at least in front of me holding a book. there’s only so small you can make yourself.
clarendon — you could just stand.
Antinome, you stole my thunder. IANAL, but I am familiar with the Timberwalk case as I’ve done a lot of legal research that cites its precedent. As soon as I read this story and the typical reactionary comments across the internet bashing this victim and her attorney for filing a “frivolous” lawsuit, I thought about the Timberwalk and the foreseeability test.
I suspect she has a much stronger case than many people realize. I doubt this is the first time a passenger has exposed himself on an AA plane. This one’s probably gonna get settled quietly.
Antinome, you stole my thunder. IANAL, but I am familiar with the Timberwalk case as I’ve done a lot of legal research that cites its precedent. As soon as I read this story and the typical reactionary comments across the internet bashing this victim and her attorney for filing a “frivolous” lawsuit, I thought about Timberwalk and the foreseeability test.
I suspect she has a much stronger case than many people realize. I doubt this is the first time a passenger has exposed himself on an AA plane. This one’s probably gonna get settled quietly.
clarendon, here’s my suggestion. Speak to the person on the aisle seat and ask them to take the middle, so that you can sit angled toward the aisle and thus avoid crowding them. Indicate your broad shoulders much the same way a person carrying a large bag would– an inconvenience you are trying to make less annoying, rather than something than gives you a right to more room (Yes, you shouldn’t have to be ashamed of your body, but apparent embarrassment brings sympathy.)
It’s easy to sit at a 45 degree angle on most aisle seats, allowing you to avoid crowding each other while maintaining a natural posture.
I don’t understand the cavalier attitude many of the commenters seem to have about what that woman went through. “Wash your hair and get on with your life”?! They make it sound like he spilled his coffee on her or something. What is wrong with people?
They’re men?
Or women with a bad case of internalised misogyny and ‘it couldn’t happen to me/blame the victim’ syndrome?
You know how any man would react if HE woke up with spooge in his hair, on his clothes or on his face from this kind of incident.
You know how any man would react if his property, sorry, wife or GF woke up with spooge in HER hair.
But when it’s just some abstract unattached, unowned woman-thing they don’t know and whose safety and experience doesn’t reflect on them? They could not give a toss. Half of them probably think it’s kind of funny.
Also, on flight attendants, they sure do seem able to yell at people for not having their seat backs up, for having tray tables down or for failing to buckle up.
Or leaving your ear-buds in during takeoff, even if your iPod is not actually on at the time. I got a huge lecture about doing this when I was flying out of Asheville around Christmas.
Don’t tell me they didn’t notice. They notice everything.
Clarifiying - I was expressing disgust with the tosser in question for once again poisoning relations between the genders, if that wasn’t obvious enough.
It was pretty obvious.
Wow, H - misandry much?
The guy could easily have jacked off to completion right there and been doing it again inside of a minute, and the most anyone would be likely to think is “Goodness, I wish that gentleman would have a seat, already.” Not so difficult to believe he’s a true two-pump chump so excited by sexual assault that his refractory period was nil.
That said, I’ve gotta gripe about this legs-together/legs-apart business. I’m not packing anything particularly impressive downstairs, but I DO find that if I want to sit with my legs together or crossed, it takes some prep-work… prep-work that might be a little unseemly on a bus. Of course, sitting with my knees no further apart than my (admittedly, broad) shoulders is no problem in any case. (Un)fortunately, I now live in an area with crap bus service, so my inability to apply pressure to my privates is no one’s problem but my own.
It was a night flight…
Do they need a ‘hand check’ periodically during the flight?
I hit Blaspheme! to early.
Somethings you just can’t realistically do any thing about. Look at what could have been done to stop this from happening and figure out what would be realistic.
Is keeping all the lights on going to stop it? Would you want to fly the ‘red eye’ and not be able to sleep because of the retinal burn? Would cameras help? Would locking people into their seats help?
She should sue the perp for what he did. Suing the airline is logical from a cash available basis but wouldn’t ‘fix’ the issue. It’s not the airline that wronged her by providing a place for her to be conveyed from point a to point b, it’s the guy that jerked his noodle and deposited his ‘product’ on her hair.
What makes laws in America such a joke is who is sued, not necessarily why.
Anyone hear of the case of the guy that was prescribed a med that caused drowsiness? He drove his car and fell asleep and caused an accident. Simple, right? He’s suing the physician for prescribing that drug rather than admitting that he should not have been driving in the first place. Suing the doctor? For your own stupidity? Obvious… Only in America…
A quick definition for Spencer here …
MISANDRY = belief that somehow men are oppressed because (1) some one acknowledges that women are oppressed OR (2)somebody thinks that women should be treated fairly and equally. Persons using this word can be assumed to be sexist pigs, as they assume that they are naturally superior and any gain of status for another is a loss for them, constituting oppression(human rights is a zero sum game).
A quick definition for Spencer here …
MISANDRY = belief that somehow men are oppressed because (1) some one acknowledges that women are oppressed OR (2)somebody thinks that women should be treated fairly and equally. Persons using this word can be assumed to be sexist pigs, as they assume that they are naturally superior and any gain of status for another is a loss for them, constituting oppression(human rights is a zero sum game).
I wonder if the pervert was a typical anonymous 4chan user. (Warning: linked content not for the weak of stomach.)
I guess what bothers me is that a lot of fairly mainstream pornography has pushed this idea that ejaculating on the outside of someone’s body is somehow erotic. I don’t understand it myself, but it seems to be a widespread theme. Naturally, most guys who watch porn along the lines of bukkake and such aren’t psychos like the one in this story, but I can’t help but think that some of the thrill that men like him do get comes from the idea so widespread in porn that coming onto a woman’s exterior is sexxxy. In short, even if this guy is a one-in-a-thousand pervert, maybe he’d be a one-in-twenty-thousand pervert if it weren’t for our culture’s pushing of the “ejaculating onto women is hot” meme weren’t so widespread.
ICK!
ON a woman? ICK!
It’s sticky. It’s slimy. It sometimes doesn’t smell good. It’s got things that stick like super glue to hair and clothes. ICK!
But I guess perhaps that’s part of it being a fetish.
My how far we’ve come since then.
For those discussing the male tendency to take up space with their “massive genitalia”. It disappears the moment another male dominates the arena or if the 2nd male is far larger. Try it and see. Invite a former professional heavyweight boxer (my fave) to see if their nads still require two seats.
1) i wish suing the jerkoff passenger (badumCHING) were a more realistic option, but in truth i’m with the folks who say if the flight attendants are going to harass me about earbuds and the precise angle of my seat they ought to be able to raise hell on some dude with his willy out.
2) on the subway in NYC, I had one of the seats next to the plexiglass partitions by the door. i turned to see some asswipe’s John Thomas protruding from his (dress) pants and coat. I was determined to make a scene, but before i could open my mouth the train hit the brakes, and the offending John Thomas was SMASHED against the plexiglass. Smushed flat. it was too perfect–as was the look on the pervtard’s face.
Oh, and the moral: never touch that plexiglass!
Cite please. Or is this another one of those Chamber of Commerce-fueled urban legends?
It is, if you can fathom it, possible for more than one wrongdoer to contribute to a problem.
I’m not defending the spooge creep mythago, but wasn’t a famous musician acquitted of acting bananas on a flight because of the combination of altitude and meds?
It’s sticky. It’s slimy. It sometimes doesn’t smell good. It’s got things that stick like super glue to hair and clothes. ICK!
It is also a bodily fluid that can transmit HIV, Hepatitis … etc.
seeker6079,
Acquitted of acting bananas on a flight? Is that a felony or misdemeanor? :’P
I’m not familiar with the story you mention, but people are acquitted of various crimes due to mental instability (pharmacogenic and otherwise) all the time, and it makes sense that this be the case. If I were stabbed by a friend who had an unusual psychotic reaction to klonipin, I’d hope that the court would recognize that there was some responsibility-undermining factor at play.
Of course, the drowsiness story makes no sense at all. I don’t really doubt that such a lawsuit was brought, because there aren’t (and shouldn’t be) any stringent barriers to filing frivolous lawsuits. (Some legitimate lawsuits would necessarily be blocked, as well.) However, I’d be really surprised if such a suit won money damages.
People defending the airline are ignoring two important parts of the story:
A:
B:
So, basically, the flight attendants knew the guy had switched seats, but when the passenger tried to get their attention, they ignored her. It makes it pretty hard for the airline to argue they didn’t know what was going on if they didn’t respond to her requests for help until another passenger got involved.
They were probably hoping to ignore the whole thing but, once the other passenger got involved, they realized their hopes of letting it blow over were gone.
Oh my. I think I just destroyed my desk with my MONSTER WEAPON.
That’s the third one this month, too.
clarendon,
sorry, youre basically screwed. just be glad youre of somewhat average size. At almost 6′6 with a large frame and very wide shoulders I’ve been yelled at even when trying to curl myself into a ball as much as possible by people, usually women, who are upset I’m invading their space or if i inadvertently touch them even when i apologize and its pretty obvious the position I’m in. Depending on the airline or shuttle service im usually the last one off the plane as i get terrible cramps in my shoulders hips and legs trying to stay small so as to not invade anyones space. I dont have the “wide stance” problem though as I have short legs for my height and a really long torso.
Do we not need to know a few more facts about this case though? The guy was arrested and it will come out but I find it hard to put the entirety of the blame on the flight crew as if i really wanted to for some reason im sure i could pull off what that guy did, does anyone know if he ejaculated into her hair or simply jerked off under a blanket then put it there? She might be able to get the airline itself to pay but again i wouldnt put it on the flight crew unless there was negligence.
It makes it pretty hard for the airline to argue they didn’t know what was going on if they didn’t respond to her requests for help until another passenger got involved.
They were too busy hounding the two nursing mothers on the flight to make sure they showed no nipple whatsoever.
The guy could easily have jacked off to completion right there and been doing it again inside of a minute,
I can see you’re still young, Dennis - you bastard.
MISANDRY = belief that somehow men are oppressed because (1) some one acknowledges that women are oppressed OR (2)somebody thinks that women should be treated fairly and equally.
Misandry - “the hatred of males as a sex.”
Consider very carefully H’s concluding couple of paragraphs:
“You know how any man would react if his property, sorry, wife or GF woke up with spooge in HER hair.
But when it’s just some abstract unattached, unowned woman-thing they don’t know and whose safety and experience doesn’t reflect on them? They could not give a toss. Half of them probably think it’s kind of funny.”
I seriously doubt that half of us consider John Random Guy tossing off on Jane Random Girl funny in itself. I suspect most of us would see a short period behind bars as appropriate reward, assuming he isn’t a psych case.
But what would I know - I’m just a male.
If people commenting here fly on the same airlines I do, why would anyone have such a hard time believing that the crew witnessed this guy jerking off on a sleeping woman and chose to do absolutely nothing?
As someone who watched an airline crew respond in a vicious manner to my husband for going into near cardiac arrest on a stalled plane sitting on the runway in over 90 degree weather for several hours(and refused him a glass of water during this ordeal) I don’t find that hard to believe at all. My only problem with her suit is that I think it should be for more than 200K.
mne,
I dont see how what you quoted proves it was hard for the crew not to know. When she woke up the assault had already taken place so I dont quite get how your first quote has anything to do with the aircrew noticing it or stopping it. She cried out and the crew should definitely have responded to that but i do not find it impossible that the crew could not have heard her in a jet during descent.
As far the second quote, people switch seats all the time, ive never had anyone from the aircrew come ask me why ive switched and i travel a lot. this was not forseeable so again i dont see how this makes your case that they should have known.
This was a horrible happening but I honestly dont see how the airline crew could have prevented it if the guy was intent on doing this. Did he jerk off, save it in his hand, move next to her, place it in her hair and get excited by that? He neednt have been a young man, he could have done it, waited a bit, moved over, put it in her hair and been ready to go again. Blame the guy, sue the airline to cover your costs but I do not blame the airline for this in this specific case, this guy is a nutjob and if he was acting sane enough to avoid scrutiny its pretty much impossible to stop this a red-eye flight no matter how vigilant you try to be. the sequence of events is still unknown leading up to the assault, would be interesting to know how it went down.
Don’t get out much, do you James? You certainly have never flown with nursing infants or car seats or anybody with medical needs.
My coworker, on an American Airlines flight, was harassed by flight attendants for daring to check her blood sugar and inject insulin after eating. She was not able to use the restroom because we were in fasten seatbelt mode. She was lectured about “bothering other passengers” when she was flanked by two people who knew her well and didn’t mind.
As we are public health folk, the flight attendants were asked for their names and employee ID numbers so our boss could report them for an ADA complaint.
There is a reason that my good buddy and former flight attendant refers to American Airlines personnel as “Sky Nazis”
My experience with the airlines is that if you look like a successful businessman that racks up a lot of frequent flyer miles, you could murder a fellow passenger, especially if the victim looks like someone who only flies a few times a year, at the cheapest price.
But I tend to be dubious about stories like this. Every time I’ve ever talked to a reporter, they manage to get even basic facts wrong, let alone complex stories. I’d be nice to be able to get the woman an outlet for her story that didn’t involve someone trying to sell newspapers or air time.
My experience with the airlines is that if you look like a successful businessman that racks up a lot of frequent flyer miles, you could murder a fellow passenger, especially if the victim looks like someone who only flies a few times a year, at the cheapest price.
But I tend to be dubious about stories like this. Every time I’ve ever talked to a reporter, they manage to get even basic facts wrong, let alone complex stories. I’d be nice to be able to get the woman an outlet for her story that didn’t involve someone trying to sell newspapers or air time.
I have no idea if a famous musician (there are kind of a lot of them) was criminally charged, tried and acquitted of those charges. I’m talking about civil cases (where people are not “acquitted”) and the usual ranting about OMG TEHY GET MILLIONS!??! that goes with it.
Well, okay, here’s a question:
WHY does a man need to take his penis out of his pants in public in the first place?
Why would a sane person ever think that’s a good idea? I don’t think people should be ashamed of their genitals or of being sexual but at the same time, I absolutely do not think there is ever a situation in which genitals need to be on display for the general public. I don’t think it’s okay for people to have sex (or other related acts) in public places. I don’t go to the park hoping to see some dude masturbating on the slide and it’s not acceptable. It’s a social taboo for a reason — not so people will be turned on by the “thrill of getting cuaght”. It’s taboo because at minimum, it’s damn inconsiderate.
The same goes for women who don’t wear underwear then “accidentally” spread their legs. It’s not cool. I don’t need to know what your vulva or your penis looks like. And you know, if there’s a random penis in my line of vision while grocery shopping or riding the bus or otherwise quietly living my life, it’s a little scary. So I think everybody should just agree to keep their genitals inside clothing and stories like this shouldn’t be treated as just “Oddly enough…” fodder.
And another question: Really? Male junk takes up that much space and is that difficult to deal with? I don’t know, I don’t have those parts nor am I particularly interested in having those parts, but I’m pretty sure there’s got to be a better way to deal with that business than the standard grab and readjust routine.
Well, okay, here’s a question:
WHY does a man need to take his penis out of his pants in public in the first place?
Why would a sane person ever think that’s a good idea? I don’t think people should be ashamed of their genitals or of being sexual but at the same time, I absolutely do not think there is ever a situation in which genitals need to be on display for the general public. I don’t think it’s okay for people to have sex (or other related acts) in public places. I don’t go to the park hoping to see some dude masturbating on the slide and it’s not acceptable. It’s a social taboo for a reason — not so people will be turned on by the “thrill of getting cuaght”. It’s taboo because at minimum, it’s damn inconsiderate.
The same goes for women who don’t wear underwear then “accidentally” spread their legs. It’s not cool. I don’t need to know what your vulva or your penis looks like. And you know, if there’s a random penis in my line of vision while grocery shopping or riding the bus or otherwise quietly living my life, it’s a little scary. So I think everybody should just agree to keep their genitals inside clothing and stories like this shouldn’t be treated as just “Oddly enough…” fodder.
And another question: Really? Male junk takes up that much space and is that difficult to deal with? I don’t know, I don’t have those parts nor am I particularly interested in having those parts, but I’m pretty sure there’s got to be a better way to deal with that business than the standard grab and readjust routine. At minimum, it’s sort of rude. Or — at least — adjusting your bra or the way your breasts are inside of the bra is considered rude, so shouldn’t the same apply for dudes and dicks?
Well, okay, here’s a question:
WHY does a man need to take his penis out of his pants in public in the first place?
Why would a sane person ever think that’s a good idea? I don’t think people should be ashamed of their genitals or of being sexual but at the same time, I absolutely do not think there is ever a situation in which genitals need to be on display for the general public. I don’t think it’s okay for people to have sex (or other related acts) in public places. I don’t go to the park hoping to see some dude masturbating on the slide and it’s not acceptable. It’s a social taboo for a reason — not so people will be turned on by the “thrill of getting cuaght”. It’s taboo because at minimum, it’s damn inconsiderate.
The same goes for women who don’t wear underwear then “accidentally” spread their legs. It’s not cool. I don’t need to know what your vulva or your penis looks like. And you know, if there’s a random penis in my line of vision while grocery shopping or riding the bus or otherwise quietly living my life, it’s a little scary. So I think everybody should just agree to keep their genitals inside clothing and stories like this shouldn’t be treated as just “Oddly enough…” fodder.
And another question: Really? Male junk takes up that much space and is that difficult to deal with? I don’t know, I don’t have those parts nor am I particularly interested in having those parts, but I’m pretty sure there’s got to be a better way to deal with that business than the standard grab and readjust routine. At very minimum, it’s got to be at least rude to do that. I mean, adjusting my bra straps or reaching down my top to adjust my breasts is considered rude, so why should it be different for dudes and dicks?
[(Also — I’ve tried to post this 3 times so if it gets repeated, I’m really sorry and mod, please delete the extras. I always have trouble getting my comments to post on Pandagon!)
The litigant appears to still have some substance in her hair in this very recent video:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=26129865
Years ago, Roseanne had a bit in her standup routine about how she was going to take up as much space as she damn well wanted. Fat women take up more space? Fine. She’ll be fat. She’s not ceding that space to men. I think we women could all do with a dose of this attitude, no matter our size, when we’re negotiating public spaces.
Can we start a trend of women telling V-sprawled men on the bus or train that they and they ginormous testicles might be more comfortable standing up, as we cross our legs and kick the offending knee to the other side of the seat divider?
H is absolutely right. All men think precisely the same, with little or no variation. What’s all this “misandry” nonsense about?
Please, please, PLEASE can we dispense with calling people Nazis? Just sayin’…
Men only spread when they’re sitting next to women, so I don’t entirely buy the necessary readjustment argument. (Sorry, guys.) I ride with a lot of the same people every day, and guys who attempt one morning to squish away from male neighbors will the next morning expand into female neighbors’ space. They don’t look like they’re in excruciating pain when their knees are that smidge closer together.
The cell phone camera suggestion is brilliant.
And I’m usually the first to complain about litigious America, but this woman’s lawsuit is absolutely justified. Ugh — I just don’t have words.
Men only spread when they’re sitting next to women, so I don’t entirely buy the necessary readjustment argument. (Sorry, guys.)
i, The “necessary readjustment argument” only applies to a certain amount of room, say a few inches or so of knee gap.
ii, You are mostly right as regards the spreading - it’s a crotch display - cf any book on body language. You’re not entirely accurate because it is sometimes used as a male-on-male domination signal, and sometimes used by women.
Personally, I think it looks like a big sign saying “kick here”…
An American politician had to step down for groping a sleeping woman on an LA flight.