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	<title>Comments on: Q of the day - pay at the pump</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Thena, Sultana of Stale Raisin Bread</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497565</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497565</guid>
					<description>Sorry, Mr SpragGe, mea culpa, I checked that two or three times and still managed to misspell it.  (and almost managed to misspell it again, too.)

It occurred to me much later that I might be misparsing non-USian diction for arrogance (which is easy for me to do), and I apologize for that.

I would also like to point out that when a bunch of yanks stand around and kvetch about the price of whatever, we're not looking for sympathy precisely (or a few notes from the world's smallest fiddle) - this is in some ways a time-honored American method of getting our collective bile and venom distilled and concatenated until we are, en masse, riled enough to do something about it, whatever &quot;it&quot; is.  

So yes, standing around bitching about it serves a useful function, even if it's boring for everyone else.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry, Mr SpragGe, mea culpa, I checked that two or three times and still managed to misspell it.  (and almost managed to misspell it again, too.)</p>
	<p>It occurred to me much later that I might be misparsing non-USian diction for arrogance (which is easy for me to do), and I apologize for that.</p>
	<p>I would also like to point out that when a bunch of yanks stand around and kvetch about the price of whatever, we&#8217;re not looking for sympathy precisely (or a few notes from the world&#8217;s smallest fiddle) - this is in some ways a time-honored American method of getting our collective bile and venom distilled and concatenated until we are, en masse, riled enough to do something about it, whatever &#8220;it&#8221; is.  </p>
	<p>So yes, standing around bitching about it serves a useful function, even if it&#8217;s boring for everyone else.
</p>
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		<title>by: inge</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497429</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 11:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497429</guid>
					<description>calliopejane, I'd probably solve it like this: 

One large car in the garage which gets kept in good condition but moved as little as possible. When it's not moving it won't burn gas and could act as store for the evacuation box. Then get a small, efficient car for everyday use, and a scooter to get a single person around town. 

Alternative, get a very fuel efficient large car, and a small economic one. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>calliopejane, I&#8217;d probably solve it like this: </p>
	<p>One large car in the garage which gets kept in good condition but moved as little as possible. When it&#8217;s not moving it won&#8217;t burn gas and could act as store for the evacuation box. Then get a small, efficient car for everyday use, and a scooter to get a single person around town. </p>
	<p>Alternative, get a very fuel efficient large car, and a small economic one.
</p>
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		<title>by: louise</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497358</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497358</guid>
					<description>Thanks, Thena... gotta run quick errands into Augusta before storm #20 this weekend. Boy, are the spring floods gonna be spectacular! And a quick explanation for John- here in Maine, there are alot of &quot;Sprague&quot;s, so I would have made the same typo.

It would help if there were a more friendly enviroment for public transit here, but really, there isn't. Portland, Bangor/Brewer &quot;BAT&quot; and Western Maine Transit are the only 3 public bus systems I can think of; I rode the buses in Baltimore all the time.  

Carpooling depends on being able to find someone with a similar or compatible destination/time schedule... 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks, Thena&#8230; gotta run quick errands into Augusta before storm #20 this weekend. Boy, are the spring floods gonna be spectacular! And a quick explanation for John- here in Maine, there are alot of &#8220;Sprague&#8221;s, so I would have made the same typo.</p>
	<p>It would help if there were a more friendly enviroment for public transit here, but really, there isn&#8217;t. Portland, Bangor/Brewer &#8220;BAT&#8221; and Western Maine Transit are the only 3 public bus systems I can think of; I rode the buses in Baltimore all the time.  </p>
	<p>Carpooling depends on being able to find someone with a similar or compatible destination/time schedule&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: John Spragge</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497341</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497341</guid>
					<description>Thena:

a) my name does not have &quot;u&quot; in it.

b) I don't know exactly what you want to hear
It may not get better. We may not have any hope of expanding oil production; indeed, the flow of oil may start shrinking, even as the demand continues to go up. I don't want to see that happen, but it doesn't have a whole lot to do with what any of us want.

c) I don't think you have any easy solutions in sight
That said, I still think that collective solutions, such as public transit (if you can build a freeway, you can build a light rail line; if you have freeways, you can probably pull up a lane and build a light rail line) give you more hope than attempts at individual solutions.

d) You may have to agitate and organize for your lives
Lierally. And believe me, it gives me &lt;b&gt;no&lt;/b&gt; pleasure to say any of this. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thena:</p>
	<p>a) my name does not have &#8220;u&#8221; in it.</p>
	<p>b) I don&#8217;t know exactly what you want to hear<br />
It may not get better. We may not have any hope of expanding oil production; indeed, the flow of oil may start shrinking, even as the demand continues to go up. I don&#8217;t want to see that happen, but it doesn&#8217;t have a whole lot to do with what any of us want.</p>
	<p>c) I don&#8217;t think you have any easy solutions in sight<br />
That said, I still think that collective solutions, such as public transit (if you can build a freeway, you can build a light rail line; if you have freeways, you can probably pull up a lane and build a light rail line) give you more hope than attempts at individual solutions.</p>
	<p>d) You may have to agitate and organize for your lives<br />
Lierally. And believe me, it gives me <b>no</b> pleasure to say any of this.
</p>
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		<title>by: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497327</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497327</guid>
					<description>calliope: Is parking the evacuation vehicle in the garage most of the time and using a small, efficient vehicle (or the streetcar, bicycle, feet, etc) for everyday needs an option?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>calliope: Is parking the evacuation vehicle in the garage most of the time and using a small, efficient vehicle (or the streetcar, bicycle, feet, etc) for everyday needs an option?
</p>
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		<title>by: Thena, Sultana of Stale Raisin Bread</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497308</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497308</guid>
					<description>Louise  @1 - the citgo on Civic Center at Townsend is running $3.16 for regular this evening but the Irving past I-95 was still at $3.19 this afternoon...

John Sprague (and a whole bunch of other people) - As I am fond of mentioning when complaints about the price of gas / heating oil / basic foodstuffs, it's not so much that the price of gas has tripled in ten years, it's that my hourly wage has barely risen AT ALL. (I'm making $0.25 US more than I did at the end of February 1998. Whee.) 

There are lots of money-saving options for people who have resources to begin with - buy a newer, more fuel efficient car, move closer to work, live in a city with good bus/train/streetcar/taxi service, move to a cheaper city, find a job with a shorter commute, etc.  Different people are going to optimize their efficiencies in different ways.  Not all options are workable for all people in all situations - I get the impression that people from more densely populated countries forget how spread out some parts of the US are and while it might be more fuel-efficient for Americans to live and work in communites that are simultaneously walking-density, safe, and affordable, the plain truth is that most of our communities miss at least one of those qualities and the lower down the income scale you go, the greater the probability that you won't find any of them.  

It's a bit arrogant to hint that there are quick-and-simple one-size-fits-all solutions to these issues and that Americans should just suck it up because it's oh so much worse somewhere else.  

Buy a new, more efficient car?  That's great if you can afford one, but a new Prius (base prise, 2008, listed at $21000) costs more than my gross annual income so I don't think I'll be buying one any time soon.  I did buy a used car last year that gets a little bit better mileage than my old one (25/mpg versus about 22) and it's paid for, so I think I'll drive it until it dies (like I did the last one.) 

Move closer to work?  Well, if I had a permanent job, maybe - we live close to my partner's work since he has a real job and I'm a temp.  I try to select for jobs within 12.5 miles of home since that's a gallon of gas, round trip, per day (at 25 mpg), but sometimes when I get work it's the next town over and that's 23 miles each way - or 2 gallons/day, or $6.30/day, or $31.50/week, which is damn close to 10% of my net after tax withholding.  I've flat out told the agency I won't go further without getting a higher wage, because I don't think it's reasonable to spend more than 10% of my net just on transportation to and from work.

I could keep ranting, but you get the picture. 


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Louise  @1 - the citgo on Civic Center at Townsend is running $3.16 for regular this evening but the Irving past I-95 was still at $3.19 this afternoon&#8230;</p>
	<p>John Sprague (and a whole bunch of other people) - As I am fond of mentioning when complaints about the price of gas / heating oil / basic foodstuffs, it&#8217;s not so much that the price of gas has tripled in ten years, it&#8217;s that my hourly wage has barely risen AT ALL. (I&#8217;m making $0.25 US more than I did at the end of February 1998. Whee.) </p>
	<p>There are lots of money-saving options for people who have resources to begin with - buy a newer, more fuel efficient car, move closer to work, live in a city with good bus/train/streetcar/taxi service, move to a cheaper city, find a job with a shorter commute, etc.  Different people are going to optimize their efficiencies in different ways.  Not all options are workable for all people in all situations - I get the impression that people from more densely populated countries forget how spread out some parts of the US are and while it might be more fuel-efficient for Americans to live and work in communites that are simultaneously walking-density, safe, and affordable, the plain truth is that most of our communities miss at least one of those qualities and the lower down the income scale you go, the greater the probability that you won&#8217;t find any of them.  </p>
	<p>It&#8217;s a bit arrogant to hint that there are quick-and-simple one-size-fits-all solutions to these issues and that Americans should just suck it up because it&#8217;s oh so much worse somewhere else.  </p>
	<p>Buy a new, more efficient car?  That&#8217;s great if you can afford one, but a new Prius (base prise, 2008, listed at $21000) costs more than my gross annual income so I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ll be buying one any time soon.  I did buy a used car last year that gets a little bit better mileage than my old one (25/mpg versus about 22) and it&#8217;s paid for, so I think I&#8217;ll drive it until it dies (like I did the last one.) </p>
	<p>Move closer to work?  Well, if I had a permanent job, maybe - we live close to my partner&#8217;s work since he has a real job and I&#8217;m a temp.  I try to select for jobs within 12.5 miles of home since that&#8217;s a gallon of gas, round trip, per day (at 25 mpg), but sometimes when I get work it&#8217;s the next town over and that&#8217;s 23 miles each way - or 2 gallons/day, or $6.30/day, or $31.50/week, which is damn close to 10% of my net after tax withholding.  I&#8217;ve flat out told the agency I won&#8217;t go further without getting a higher wage, because I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s reasonable to spend more than 10% of my net just on transportation to and from work.</p>
	<p>I could keep ranting, but you get the picture.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497296</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497296</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t think we can be a 1-car household, but I would like us to be a 2-small-efficient-car household. Yet I can’t think of a way around the evacuation issue. I’m sure as hell not depending on any kind of competent government emergency services. Suggestions, anyone?&lt;/i&gt;

If you don't feel safe without an SUV, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hybridsuv.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;get a hybrid.&lt;/a&gt;  It's not a perfect solution -- the gas mileage doesn't compare with an efficient small car -- but at least you won't feel like you're pumping carbon over everything in sight every time you drive it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I don’t think we can be a 1-car household, but I would like us to be a 2-small-efficient-car household. Yet I can’t think of a way around the evacuation issue. I’m sure as hell not depending on any kind of competent government emergency services. Suggestions, anyone?</i></p>
	<p>If you don&#8217;t feel safe without an SUV, <a href="http://www.hybridsuv.com/" rel="nofollow">get a hybrid.</a>  It&#8217;s not a perfect solution &#8212; the gas mileage doesn&#8217;t compare with an efficient small car &#8212; but at least you won&#8217;t feel like you&#8217;re pumping carbon over everything in sight every time you drive it.
</p>
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		<title>by: John Spragge</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497289</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497289</guid>
					<description>Dana: you have public transportation in spades. You call your public transit routes interstates. Who do you think pays to build and maintain those roads, if not the American public? When and if you run short of oil, you can re-purpose many of those routes by laying rail or light rail tracks on the inner lanes. 

Whenever you decide to make the switch, you'll have a rough ride, but the sooner you do it, the better shape you'll leave the atmosphere, and the more resources you'll have to make the switch.

calliopejane: My suggestion may not appeal to you, but I'd say that if you absolutely do not trust your local government to plan an evacuation using public transportation, you might want to relocate from a coastal city. If I really believed getting involved in politics would help, and I didn't want to find somewhere further from the levees to live, then I'd go in with the neighbours, buy a school bus, and keep it in a secure spot, ready for the nex hurricane to make a beeline for my city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dana: you have public transportation in spades. You call your public transit routes interstates. Who do you think pays to build and maintain those roads, if not the American public? When and if you run short of oil, you can re-purpose many of those routes by laying rail or light rail tracks on the inner lanes. </p>
	<p>Whenever you decide to make the switch, you&#8217;ll have a rough ride, but the sooner you do it, the better shape you&#8217;ll leave the atmosphere, and the more resources you&#8217;ll have to make the switch.</p>
	<p>calliopejane: My suggestion may not appeal to you, but I&#8217;d say that if you absolutely do not trust your local government to plan an evacuation using public transportation, you might want to relocate from a coastal city. If I really believed getting involved in politics would help, and I didn&#8217;t want to find somewhere further from the levees to live, then I&#8217;d go in with the neighbours, buy a school bus, and keep it in a secure spot, ready for the nex hurricane to make a beeline for my city.
</p>
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		<title>by: Dana</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497268</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497268</guid>
					<description>somegirls, that's one thing I like about Jim Thorpe; I can -- and do -- walk from one end of town to the other.  Downtown here is mostly tourist trap shops, but I can just walk around and look at the architecture for days on end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>somegirls, that&#8217;s one thing I like about Jim Thorpe; I can &#8212; and do &#8212; walk from one end of town to the other.  Downtown here is mostly tourist trap shops, but I can just walk around and look at the architecture for days on end.
</p>
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		<title>by: somegirls</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497244</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/05/q-of-the-day-pay-at-the-pump/#comment-497244</guid>
					<description>I come from a smallish town (less than 20,000 people).  When I was very young people still mostly lived in town.  When my parents were teenagers downtown was where you hung out.  There was a soda shop and a Ben Franklin's and some restaurants and such.  The grocery store, library, churches and just about anywhere you need to go were all within walking distance of most residents. In my tween years there was a mall built on the outskirts of town and then a Wal-mart and some Toll Brother style subdivisions.  Before long downtown completely dried up and you had to drive to get everywhere.

Small &quot;towns&quot; didn't used to mean a collection of subdivisions and big box stores with parking lots.  They used to be more concentrated also.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I come from a smallish town (less than 20,000 people).  When I was very young people still mostly lived in town.  When my parents were teenagers downtown was where you hung out.  There was a soda shop and a Ben Franklin&#8217;s and some restaurants and such.  The grocery store, library, churches and just about anywhere you need to go were all within walking distance of most residents. In my tween years there was a mall built on the outskirts of town and then a Wal-mart and some Toll Brother style subdivisions.  Before long downtown completely dried up and you had to drive to get everywhere.</p>
	<p>Small &#8220;towns&#8221; didn&#8217;t used to mean a collection of subdivisions and big box stores with parking lots.  They used to be more concentrated also.
</p>
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