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	<title>Comments on: Huckabee endorses &#8216;egg as person&#8217; amendment</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: D</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495181</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495181</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I didn’t see any reason to quote sources since &lt;b&gt;some&lt;/b&gt; of the sources you included supported the point of view that progestin does prevent implantation. I have no idea why you seem to need for that to be wrong, but at this point for someone to make a blanket statement that progestin does not prevent implantation is unsupported by the evidence. I have no idea if it does or does not and neither do you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Hmm, let see... first I think I'll just quote you @ 100.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t think studies that are using EC can be used to generalize about routine use of the contraceptive pill. It may be that EC simply doesn’t have time to change the uterus.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The studies cited in the review I linked look only at one progestin, levonorgestrel.  That does not support your claim that progestins (plural, they are a class of a variety of molecules, not a singular entity) have been shown to prevent implantation.  If those particular studies that suggest levonorgestrel does alter the uterine lining were the only studies on the subject, then you could honestly claim that levonorgestrel would prevent implantation, but they aren't so you can't.  It is actually rather clear that the evidence in whole supports the conclusion that this particular progestin doesn't prevent implantation.  The strongest evidence coming from studies that actually look at implantation, all of which find no preventative effect.  None of this can be used to generalize about all progestins, which I have never done, though you have, going so far as to claim actually studies exist that support you.  So, feel free to at any point dispense with your dishonest hypocrisy and either cite those studies or admit that you're ignorant of the science on this topic.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>I didn’t see any reason to quote sources since <b>some</b> of the sources you included supported the point of view that progestin does prevent implantation. I have no idea why you seem to need for that to be wrong, but at this point for someone to make a blanket statement that progestin does not prevent implantation is unsupported by the evidence. I have no idea if it does or does not and neither do you.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Hmm, let see&#8230; first I think I&#8217;ll just quote you @ 100.</p>
	<blockquote><p>I don’t think studies that are using EC can be used to generalize about routine use of the contraceptive pill. It may be that EC simply doesn’t have time to change the uterus.</p></blockquote>
	<p>The studies cited in the review I linked look only at one progestin, levonorgestrel.  That does not support your claim that progestins (plural, they are a class of a variety of molecules, not a singular entity) have been shown to prevent implantation.  If those particular studies that suggest levonorgestrel does alter the uterine lining were the only studies on the subject, then you could honestly claim that levonorgestrel would prevent implantation, but they aren&#8217;t so you can&#8217;t.  It is actually rather clear that the evidence in whole supports the conclusion that this particular progestin doesn&#8217;t prevent implantation.  The strongest evidence coming from studies that actually look at implantation, all of which find no preventative effect.  None of this can be used to generalize about all progestins, which I have never done, though you have, going so far as to claim actually studies exist that support you.  So, feel free to at any point dispense with your dishonest hypocrisy and either cite those studies or admit that you&#8217;re ignorant of the science on this topic.
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		<title>by: Tom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495107</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495107</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And shall we conclude from your continued failure to actually cite any sourced review or actual study that you in fact aren’t knowledgeable about the claims you’re making. Yes, I think we shall.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I didn't see any reason to quote sources since some of  the sources you included supported the point of view that progestin does prevent implantation.  I have no idea why you seem to need for that to be wrong, but at this point for someone to make a blanket statement that progestin does not prevent implantation is unsupported by the evidence.  I have no idea if it does or does not and neither do you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>And shall we conclude from your continued failure to actually cite any sourced review or actual study that you in fact aren’t knowledgeable about the claims you’re making. Yes, I think we shall.</p></blockquote>
	<p>I didn&#8217;t see any reason to quote sources since some of  the sources you included supported the point of view that progestin does prevent implantation.  I have no idea why you seem to need for that to be wrong, but at this point for someone to make a blanket statement that progestin does not prevent implantation is unsupported by the evidence.  I have no idea if it does or does not and neither do you.
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		<title>by: D</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495093</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495093</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For the record however, levonorgestrel, the progestin in EC, does mimic progesterone quite well &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;though certainly not perfectly&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;, which is probably why it is used.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You keep grasping for those straws though.  I'll also point out that I was only talking about one specific progestin that is used in EC and some OCPs, not all.

And shall we conclude from your continued failure to actually cite any sourced review or actual study that you in fact aren't knowledgeable about the claims you're making.  Yes, I think we shall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>For the record however, levonorgestrel, the progestin in EC, does mimic progesterone quite well <b><i>though certainly not perfectly</i></b>, which is probably why it is used.</p></blockquote>
	<p>You keep grasping for those straws though.  I&#8217;ll also point out that I was only talking about one specific progestin that is used in EC and some OCPs, not all.</p>
	<p>And shall we conclude from your continued failure to actually cite any sourced review or actual study that you in fact aren&#8217;t knowledgeable about the claims you&#8217;re making.  Yes, I think we shall.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495031</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495031</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For the record however, levonorgestrel, the progestin in EC, does mimic progesterone quite well though certainly not perfectly, which is probably why it is used.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Than answer this, if progestin is so good at mimicking progesterone, they why is progresterone used for fertility treatments and progestin used in birth control pills?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>For the record however, levonorgestrel, the progestin in EC, does mimic progesterone quite well though certainly not perfectly, which is probably why it is used.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Than answer this, if progestin is so good at mimicking progesterone, they why is progresterone used for fertility treatments and progestin used in birth control pills?
</p>
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		<title>by: Tom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495030</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-495030</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There is new information (as in, studies reported within the past two years) that seems to show that birth control pills (and, by extension, Plan B) do NOT interfere with an egg’s implantation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
At this point it isn't clear if it does or does not since the studies seem to be contradictory.  It would be a shame if it didn't since that would lower the window of EC effectiveness.

I might remind you that my comments started when Amanda wrote this, which made it sound like she had never heard of any studies about progestin and its &lt;i&gt;possible&lt;/i&gt; effect on the uterus:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Please provide your evidence, because all I’ve ever seen says that there’s no reason to believe this and no evidence whatsoever of this effect. I wait eagerly, because everything I’ve seen says that there is no reason to believe this is true.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>There is new information (as in, studies reported within the past two years) that seems to show that birth control pills (and, by extension, Plan B) do NOT interfere with an egg’s implantation.</p></blockquote>
	<p>At this point it isn&#8217;t clear if it does or does not since the studies seem to be contradictory.  It would be a shame if it didn&#8217;t since that would lower the window of EC effectiveness.</p>
	<p>I might remind you that my comments started when Amanda wrote this, which made it sound like she had never heard of any studies about progestin and its <i>possible</i> effect on the uterus:</p>
	<blockquote><p>Please provide your evidence, because all I’ve ever seen says that there’s no reason to believe this and no evidence whatsoever of this effect. I wait eagerly, because everything I’ve seen says that there is no reason to believe this is true.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: D</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494948</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494948</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;1) Do you believe that taking a large doses of hormone at once (EC) will give the same effect as taking smaller doses over a longer period of time?

Or

2) Do you believe that progestin and progesterone behave identically in the human body? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

No and No.  Nor do I think my post would have indicated my answers would be otherwise.  Nor do I think such questions have any relevance in the context here so far.

For the record however, levonorgestrel, the progestin in EC, does mimic progesterone quite well though certainly not perfectly, which is probably why it is used.

I'll also second Mnemosyne's link to PZ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>1) Do you believe that taking a large doses of hormone at once (EC) will give the same effect as taking smaller doses over a longer period of time?</p>
	<p>Or</p>
	<p>2) Do you believe that progestin and progesterone behave identically in the human body? </p></blockquote>
	<p>No and No.  Nor do I think my post would have indicated my answers would be otherwise.  Nor do I think such questions have any relevance in the context here so far.</p>
	<p>For the record however, levonorgestrel, the progestin in EC, does mimic progesterone quite well though certainly not perfectly, which is probably why it is used.</p>
	<p>I&#8217;ll also second Mnemosyne&#8217;s link to PZ.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494938</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494938</guid>
					<description>Tom, you may want to read this article by biologist PZ Myers about &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/why_the_wingnuts_hate_plan_b.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;how Plan B works&lt;/a&gt;.  There is new information (as in, studies reported within the past two years) that seems to show that birth control pills (and, by extension, Plan B) do NOT interfere with an egg's implantation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tom, you may want to read this article by biologist PZ Myers about <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/why_the_wingnuts_hate_plan_b.php" rel="nofollow">how Plan B works</a>.  There is new information (as in, studies reported within the past two years) that seems to show that birth control pills (and, by extension, Plan B) do NOT interfere with an egg&#8217;s implantation.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jovan1984</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494934</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494934</guid>
					<description>Here is another question:

If the FairTax was implemented, should women be ordered to pay a 46% sales tax on everything she buys?

Anyways, I hate the fact that Tyra had this misogynist nutjob on her show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Here is another question:</p>
	<p>If the FairTax was implemented, should women be ordered to pay a 46% sales tax on everything she buys?</p>
	<p>Anyways, I hate the fact that Tyra had this misogynist nutjob on her show.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494932</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494932</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Are you just trying to be contrary Tom? Your response is fairly nonsensical.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

1) Do you believe that taking a large doses of hormone at once (EC) will give the same effect as taking smaller doses over a longer period of time?

Or

2) Do you believe that progestin and progesterone behave identically in the human body?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Are you just trying to be contrary Tom? Your response is fairly nonsensical.</blockquote>
I&#8217;m sorry if I&#8217;m not being clear.</p>
	<p>1) Do you believe that taking a large doses of hormone at once (EC) will give the same effect as taking smaller doses over a longer period of time?</p>
	<p>Or</p>
	<p>2) Do you believe that progestin and progesterone behave identically in the human body?
</p>
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		<title>by: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494928</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/26/huckabee-endorses-egg-as-person-amendment/#comment-494928</guid>
					<description>P.S. I'd note that even though the chances of HBC preventing implantation of a fertilized egg are small, an overdose of hormonal birth control pills works a lot like the morning-after pill, only with more vomitting.  Since we seem to be well on our way in Colorado to making pseudoephedrine cold pills illegal because a few people make meth from them (it hasn't happened yet, but it's becoming more and more dificult to get it every year), I think that argument could be made.

I'm also wondering if they would manage to hunt through women's medical records and court-order women with copper IUDs to have them removed.

They're not being upfront about the measure being anti-birth control because they know it wouldn't get far that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>P.S. I&#8217;d note that even though the chances of HBC preventing implantation of a fertilized egg are small, an overdose of hormonal birth control pills works a lot like the morning-after pill, only with more vomitting.  Since we seem to be well on our way in Colorado to making pseudoephedrine cold pills illegal because a few people make meth from them (it hasn&#8217;t happened yet, but it&#8217;s becoming more and more dificult to get it every year), I think that argument could be made.</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m also wondering if they would manage to hunt through women&#8217;s medical records and court-order women with copper IUDs to have them removed.</p>
	<p>They&#8217;re not being upfront about the measure being anti-birth control because they know it wouldn&#8217;t get far that way.
</p>
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