Via Zuzu, this poll from the Pew Forum about the finicky attitude Americans have towards religion was absolutely fascinating. 44% of Americans have changed religious affiliations since childhood. Now, a lot of that is Protestants hopping from this Church of Christ to that United Church of Jesus Christ So Not The Same As That Other Church, sure. Considering how much religious involvement is less about dogma, theology and faith and more about community,* it’s unsurprising that people church shop. Also, Americans move a lot and we meet spouses through work, school, and socializing more than church, so you have a lot of people switching churches because the Lutherans were closer than the Methodists to their house or they flipped a coin to figure which spouse’s church to join. The rapid escalation of these megachurches has to come from somewhere—looks like they might be draining other churches of their congregations. I’m not alone in suspecting this:
To Prof. Stephen Prothero, large numbers of Americans leaving organized religion and large numbers still embracing the fervor of evangelical Christianity point to the same desires.
“The trend is toward more personal religion, and evangelicals offer that,” said Mr. Prothero, chairman of the religion department at Boston University, who explained that evangelical churches tailor many of their activities for youth. “Those losing out are offering impersonal religion and those winning are offering a smaller scale: mega-churches succeed not because they are mega but because they have smaller ministries inside.”
i.e., services. Megachurches have positioned themselves to fill a lot of holes in people’s lives, from day care to drug abuse counseling to singles meet-ups. Stuff that is attractive in our “bowling alone” era, but with the downside that you often have to slurp up a whole lot of right wing bullshit to get to these services. But never despair, fellow religion skeptics. There is good news! 25% of Americans are making major changes to their religions, and of that group, many are quitting religion altogether. 16% of Americans are now unchurched heathens. The Times tries to soften the blow of hearing about the creeping commitment to unchurched heathenism in our our culture.
The rise of the unaffiliated does not mean that Americans are becoming less religious, however. Contrary to assumptions that most of the unaffiliated are atheists or agnostics, most described their religion “as nothing in particular.” Pew researchers said that later projects would delve more deeply into the beliefs and practices of the unaffiliated and would try to determine if they remain so as they age.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that doesn’t mean that we’re not sliding directly to hell. The first step on that road is choosing to sleep in on Sundays.
But for the trash-talking bigots** out there, there’s real good news indeed. The Catholic Church is hemorrhaging believers.
The percentage of Catholics in the American population has held steady for decades at about 25 percent. But that masks a precipitous decline in native-born Catholics. The proportion has been bolstered by the large influx of Catholic immigrants, mostly from Latin America, the survey found.
The Catholic Church has lost more adherents than any other group: about one-third of respondents raised Catholic said they no longer identified as such. Based on the data, the survey showed, “this means that roughly 10 percent of all Americans are former Catholics.”
The plan is working! Oh. Wait. You don’t know about the plan to destroy the Catholic Church, do you? Well, basically a bunch of trash-talking bigots infiltrated the organization and steadily worked to make it rigid, intolerant, and tedious, running off believers. Once that process got started, it was easy to let it go. The more decent people leave, the more the rigid, intolerant, anti-choice nuts control the joint, and the more that nice, decent people want to get the hell out. As you can see, the diabolical plan has worked like a charm.
*Including cheap day care.
**You’re welcome, Bill Donohue, you authentic bigot.
49 Responses to “Americans coming around to the diabolical plan”
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It sure as hell (heh) worked on me. I left that misogyny (yes, I am a non-Christian, if not total atheist) noise, when they couldn’t admit that misogyny had something to do w/ the prediction that Catholics will allow priests to marry long before they allow women to be priests. Wevs.
There was a front page article about this in the Statesman today, and I thought the opening sentence made very appropriate use of the phrase “religious marketplace.”
It’s a market, like any other, and is subject to the same forces.
The misogyny was one of the reasons I left the Catholic church (although I do still identify culturally as catholic most of the time). And that was the first step to full on heathen nonbeliever. These days I’m ‘nothing in particular’, which is code for ‘I just don’t see the necessity of god in my life and he/she/it probably doesn’t exist anyway.’ Or, ‘the god of the big three sounds like a grade A asshole and why in the world would I want to worship a sadistic bastard.’ Depending on my mood.
And my sister in law converted from Hinduism to Christianity in college and now attends one of those megachurches. She met her husband there, their kids go to a private, Christian school affiliated with it, and their whole lives revolve around that place. It really is almost cult like.
I still prefer the Church of Jesus Christ Without Christ.
Obscure?
I think it’ll be interesting to see what the next great religious movement will be. It’s obvious that traditional Christianity is leaving quite a few unsatisfied customers who want answers but not, ‘Because God says so.’ As well as what’s been cited above - Christianity as disenfranchising. I know I left Mormonism because I couldn’t reconcile the Mormon standards of behavior with my own internal logic.
Personally, I think we’re due for another religious revolution, along the lines of what happened when Christianity supplanted paganism. Lots of people are perfectly content to live without religious influence in their lives, but I think enough people are spiritual seekers to merit another radical shift in thinking. New Aeon and all that.
I also believe that when women can serve as priests, ministers, imams, cardinals, rabbis, popes and other religious leaders, completely on par with men, that will be the day that feminism has finally won (women can serve as spiritual leaders in some sectors of religious life, but the religious leaders of the global religions are all men).
See this sounds just absolutely frigging insane to me. I at least have an excuse I can tolerate for hanging out in a church that is ill-fitting theologically. Not everyone else is married to the clergy!
In another world, I’d be a Sunday-sleepin’ agnostic or Unitarian, not a Methodist.
He-Double-Hockey Sticks, Yes. Of course, certain individuals want it that way - they want people to be dependent on churches for all these and similar social services.
Grr . . moderation is holding me hostage.
I worship at the Church of St. Arbucks myself…….
LOL! And I thought it was because megachurches were the only ones who sold lattes during services….
I prefer to spend my Sundays at that Altar of the Puffy Pillow and the Holy HDTV.
“I prefer to spend my Sundays at that Altar of the Puffy Pillow and the Holy HDTV.”
Jeff, you are SUCH a hedonist…
I still prefer the Church of Jesus Christ Without Christ.
Heh. That’s funny, ‘cause I prefer the Church of Jesus Christ Without the Church. Jesus seemed like a pretty cool guy and could come over my place to hang anytime he wanted. But boy, are his fanboys and fangirls real wankers sometimes.
I don’t believe in God, but I also think that if there were a God, She would be like, “Oh, that’s okay, I’d probably have a hard time believing in me too,” and have Alan Rickman invite me out for a game of Skee-ball. If being raised Catholic hadn’t completely ruined me for religion, Dogma would have done a hell of a job.
Jeff, you are SUCH a hedonist…
The wake-and-bake Sundays are even better
Before we had kids, the husband and I would hang out at Barnes and Noble on Sunday mornings reading and drinking hot drinks (he likes coffee, but I’m not a fan–I always either had tea or hot chocolate). It was a joke between us that that was our church.
Nowadays we park the kids in front of the tv and get an extra hour of much needed sleep.
I’ll bet some large part is the “Catholics are not Christians” stuff, and there’s no reason to put up with it when so many of the mainline churches are acceptable to a social Catholic.
I believe that The Gospel of Saint Toad deserves to be elevated to canonical status in the Church of the Mouse and Disco Ball.
Submitted,
the flaky deity.
I prefer to spend my Sundays at that Altar of the Puffy Pillow and the Holy HDTV.
If you’re on your knees, please don’t share the details with us.
Nowadays we park the kids in front of the tv and get an extra hour of much needed sleep.
Sunday is the morning for which we leave the kid written instructions. What videos are on the menu, snacks, and most importantly the earliest time at which the moms can be awakened.
Literacy changed my life. Not my literacy, hers!
Who the hell has time for church? We used to stagger to Our Lady of the Sideways Bathtub up the block for the occasional Mass, but once the kid started to understand the words at the same time as the priest got crazier from the pulpit, well, that was all done at once.
The Family Phoenix to RCC: You’re fired! Thanks for all the condemnation!
Matthew 19-26. Just warning you, Jesus is an obnoxious drunk.
I taught three classes on Monday wearing a Tshirt that my wife bought me. It’s black and has ATHEIST on it in bright red letters. Second-best birthday present ever.
Today, a “pro-life” student brought me a Bible (a King James! I didn’t know they make those anymore!), saying that she felt that I at least needed to be exposed to the word of a bunch of Jewish refugees in the 5thC BCE God, so I thanked her and flipped first to Leviticus ch. 18, which I read in its entirety, then hit the gospel of Matthew, chapter 6:
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Man, I like Jesus. I am so getting a phone call from the dean.
Excuse me, that’s Matthew 11:19-26. Wouldn’t want that guy knocking on your door or window at 3 am.
Just warning you, Jesus is an obnoxious drunk.
So he’s a true Catholic, then.
(I was hoping that the clip from “The Simpsons” of Protestant Heaven vs. Catholic Heaven was up on YouTube somewhere, but no such luck. Damn you, Fox lawyers!)
If they live-blogged church…
9:32 AM - oh the same old “Old Testament Bad, New Testament Good” bullshit, we’ve covered this antisemitic crap before
9:37 AM - please someone strangle the three-year old phartling crotchfruit who belongs in the day care in the basement
9:40 AM - that usher is hot, no doubt
9:46 AM - OK, I cannot figure out whether Jane Ann is indeed boning the assistant pastor, trying to bone the assistant pastor or just hoping to bone him. Readers?
9:47 AM - no, not this hymn again
9:53 AM - OK, they are sponsoring a literacy volunteer program. Quite good.
9:55 AM - But this program has 19 typos - charity begins at home
10:02 AM - Good, I can smell the coffee, if they don’t spread the caffeine soon I am going to violate at least three commandments, and not the fun ones.
10:08 AM - “God the MOTHER”, dammit!
10:11 AM - this pastor just loves taking shots at the Unitarians. He cannot stop, it’s logorrhea…
10:17 AM - “Thanks be to God” - okay where’s the goddamn coffee NOW?
The survey itself is, as you say, fascinating.
For one thing, I expected that the unaffiliated (closest category they have to atheist/agnostic/apathetic) would turn out richer or better educated, but they’re within a point or two of the national averages on those parameters.
On the other hand, there does seem to be a relationship between how intolerant a religion is of dissent in its ranks (eg, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, Evangelicals) and its members being poor and undereducated (compared to most).
The big surprise (to me, at least) was how successful Hindus were: American adult Hindus are more than four times more likely to have post-grad degrees (48%!), and 2-and-2-thirds times more likely to have 6-figure jobs than the American average. They were more likely to be married (79%) than even Mormons (71%), with the lowest divorced and widowed rates (the latter is probably attributable to those 6-figure jobs–health correlates strongly with income).
http://www.videosift.com/video/Simpsons-Protestant-Vs-Catholic-Heaven
Bruce - I emailed that live blog to my wife. She’ll read it at work tomorrow morning and start chewing on her knuckles to keep the church secretary clueless. And then kick my ass when she sees me next for making her so self-conscious from laughter while being The Pastor.
God, am I full of crap. I got around to reading Pew’s full report (pdf), instead of just perusing the graphs.
Turns out, non-believers are richer and smarter.
Atheists, Agnostics and what the report calls “Secular Unaffiliated” all have higher-than-average rates of post-grad degrees (21%, 20% and 13% respectively, compared to an average of 11% of the total population). However, the unaffiliated group’s average is brought down by a sizeable subgroup, the “Religious Unaffiliated” (defined as “those who say that religion is either somewhat important or very important in their lives” but don’t belong to a formal religion) who clock in at 6%. (p. 84.)
Similarly, among the Unaffiliated group, 28%, 25% and 21% of the Atheists, Agnostics and Secular Unaffiliated make $100k or more (compared to a general average of 18%); among the Religious Unaffiliated, it’s only 12%. (p. 78.)
My apologies to y’all.
Heh. That’s funny, ‘cause I prefer the Church of Jesus Christ Without the Church.
Actually, it’s a line from a movie I saw back in the 1980s called Wise Blood (I believe it was a novel as well). The basic premise is that the protagonist comes home from the war a little funny in the head and decides to found “The Church of Jesus Christ Without Christ.”
My favorite dialog from the movie:
Landlady: What do you do?
Rev.: I’m a preacher.
L: Which church?
R: Church of Jesus Christ Without Christ
L: Oh. (pause) Is that Protestant?
R: Yeah.
L: Oh, all right then.
(I think that’s how it went; it was a long time ago that I saw it.)
Uhh, Wise Blood was a novel by Flannery O’Connor, who was a Catholic of the conservative and most difficult variety, at odds with liberals and the sort of insane Christianity that the South has a way of generating.
Keep in mind Amy Sullivan reminds us to flatter and court these people and their deeply held beliefs that can be adjusted on a moments notice!
If we don’t, Amy Sullivan will be out of a job! Think of the hectoring Op-eds that will never get to be written!
It’s not just the social services, it’s also the job networking. And unfortunately the less tolerant a community is, the more effective the networking effect. If I’m willing to hire a fundie, but the fundie isn’t willing to hire a methodist, guess who has the game-theoretic advantage.
Forming civil institutions is one place where the left has really fallen down on the job, I think. Especially on the net, where the randroid/libertarian overlay leaves an implication that getting together in communitys for mutual support is somehow a bad thing per se…
My wife is one of those raised but no longer practicing Catholics. She had a good take on this that gets overlooked: for a lot of Americans, especially of Irish and Mexican heritage, Catholicism is more of a cultural identity, like being New York Jewish. You were raised with the rites and traditions but don’t really follow any of the stricter beliefs and may not even believe in God but still identify as Catholic or Jewish, because that is your family’s native heritage.
As PZ pointed out, at the rate the godless are growing, we’ll be a minority equal in numbers to the Evangelicals and larger then the Catholics within ten years. If we could organize in some meaningful way, imagine how much political power we could wield?
Just warning you, Jesus is an obnoxious drunk.
So are most of my friends and half of my family. He’ll fit right in.
Bruce, while there are plenty of childfree people here, the woman- and child-hating expressed by calling a kid a crotchfruit is not appreciated. Keep your hate to yourself.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Simpsons-Protestant-Vs-Catholic-Heaven
I love you, GrammarRWA. Though I’m still a little frightened at the thought of being forced to Riverdance through the afterlife.
Em: It’s been a while since you’ve been trapped in a situation with a caterwauling, hyperactive 3-year old, hasn’t it? In the situation Bruce describes, “crotchfruit” is one of the kinder things said child could be called. Actually, the insult is towards the parents who are torturing not only the people around said child, but the child itself, since there isn’t a 3-year old born who can sit still and be quiet for 45 minutes without being asleep.
Child-hating? Not exactly - the situation is what incurs the hatred, not the child.
Besides, I felt for the poor little anklebiter …
The Catholic church’s future does look bleak. It makes up its hemorrhage of defections by taking in hispanic immigrants. But hispanic immigrants have a record, quite a long one now, of defecting to protestantism.
The Catholic church’s future does look bleak. It makes up its hemorrhage of defections by taking in hispanic immigrants. But hispanic immigrants have a record, quite a long one now, of defecting to protestantism.
The Catholic church’s future does look bleak. It makes up its hemorrhage of defections by taking in hispanic immigrants. But hispanic immigrants have a record, quite a long one now, of defecting to protestantism.
Mhorag, I don’t give a fuck how annoying a screaming three year can be. Women are not trees. Children are not fruit that fall out of them. Unless you are a forced-birther and then that is exactly what they are. If you or Bruce want to snicker at ‘breeders’, you can do it somewhere else besides a thread on, of all things, secularization in the US.
Gang:
I have two disabled children of my own, folks, and I am home with them now. Their names are Sam and Noah; they are 5 and 2. We use sign language to help Sam communicate; he is autistic. Noah is also autistic but he seems to respond to verbal cues more. Sam loves to play percussion and has better pitch and rhythm than his Dad. Noah LOVES to color, all day, and to snuggle with his Planket.
The live blogging was representative of a hypothetical blogger in a hypothetical Protestant church. I am an atheist and have no background in the Protestant churches.
Sometimes writers assume a persona that is not their own. In the U.S., this is lawful for comedic and dramatic effect. In most churches (not all), ushers are male and so I also probably would not find the usher “hot” (given my orientation, etc.) But I probably would not be in a Protestant church with a “pastor” either because the “church I don’t believe in anymore” usually calls them “priests.” Not the clue: “if THEY live-blogged churchES,” not “if I live-blogged the last Catholic church I set foot in….”
Everybody, please, Metamucil, for the love of Pete. I have to go now because I have faces to kiss and asses to wipe, or the other way around, I forget.
Bruce, I could tell you were Catholic because of the “Thanks be to God” ending. I doubt a Protestant would quote that as the obvious “end of service” signal.
“The Mass is ended. Go in peace to love and serve the Lord.”
“Thank God. I mean, thanks be to God.”
felagund, I need to get that T-shirt for my boyfriend. If someone comes up to him and tries to “expose” him to the Bible, he can tell them that we have no fewer than four Bibles at home, that he has read and studied the New Testament extensively, and that if it was going to convert him it would have taken hold by now.
(Four Bibles: my pink First Communion bible, his Catholic school bible, an NRSV both of us used in the course of majoring in religious studies, and an EXTREME TEEN BIBLE bought solely for the hilarious cover montage of teens engaging in EXTREME sports while holding up the Bible in an EXTREME fashion.)
(We also have the Book of Mormon, which contains the word “mightest.” My boyfriend’s old roommate, currently getting his Ph.D in American religion, corrected it in the margin to “wouldst.”)
Shorter Bruce: I don’t know the first thing about it, but it’s edgy, so I’ll use it for a laugh.
Explanation noted. Admonition to ‘lighten up’ not appreciated.
Em: Wev.
Bruce: Speaking as an ex-Protestant, I’d say you have the thought processes of a hyothetical Protestant down pretty well.
EM: Oh, one more thing.
Children are the “fruit of our loins.” Crotches are indeed involved. Thus, “crotchfruit” is at least accurate.
Ah yes. A biblical reference. B/c as everyone knows, the Bible is so feminist. Keep digging, you’re almost to China.
Em, you are either a purity troll, or a bit funny in the head. Not sure which.
Em, take the stick out your arse, please. “Crotchfruit’ is funny precisely because it’s so anti the saccharine, humourless view of children that religious loons tend to acquire in regard to the Lawd’s Most Pwecious Gift.
I suspect your objections are not really about the supposed religious connotations, though. If they were, you wouldn’t object to me calling annoying kids ’snatchdragons’ or ’snotminers’ which I fully expect you to do within 90 seconds of reading this post.
Jesus fuckin’ Christ. I’ve got a stick up my ass? No, I recognize snotty childfree misogyny when I see it. Go on, keep proving my point.