Comments on: Rape: Pretty real when it’s happening

by: Wisteria

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:05:34 +0000

I am appalled that this piece of right-wing propaganda made it into the LA Times in the first place. The response,written by SAFER's Nora Niedzielski-Eichner, does an excellent job at exposing how the tired rape denialism argument has been repackaged over and over again by the same set of "culture war"-fueling right-wing institutions and, specifically, MacDonald's connections to these institutions. Not only is this denialism argument old and discredited, it is part of a larger effort by right-wing organizations such as the Manhattan Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) and the Independent Women's Forum to delegitimize and combat feminist successes on campuses nationwide, particularly the rise of women's/gender studies departments, rape crisis centers, and other anti-violence programming. This is a longstanding strategy bankrolled by the top right-wing foundations (Scaife, Olin and Bradley, among others) and implemented, in large part, through a great deal of media savvy and a suspect ability to place even the most discredited propaganda in the pages of respected news publications. Even the most minor of fact-checking endeavors would reveal MacDonald’s op-ed as not only dated, unoriginal and a complete rehash of numerous past efforts bankrolled by the same institutions, but also one that has been torn apart time and time again in a wide variety of forums. The Times owes its readers an explanation of how it is that think tanks such as the Manhattan Institute, with their old, discredited propaganda, have such access to their op-ed pages. Check out the united bloggers’ responsesto this disgusting distortion.

by: Rei

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:51:08 +0000

You’ll have to forgive me- I didn’t read anon23’s comment closely enough the first time. To clarify, ex-lovers of either gender are not the most appropriate people for this sort of thing. And I think it’d be too hard for most men to pull it off, regardless, except in a case where a male was assaulted. So this is less for anon23 than for the record. And it applies mostly to situations where you believe that the incident is still “a secret.” The link D posted is certainly the best course of action once people have already been told.

But I really, truly, firmly believe that clearly signalling your willingness to listen to someone who may have been assaulted is invaluable. I’ve been on both sides of the situation, and in both cases the recovery didn’t start until someone sat someone else down and said: “You don’t seem ok. Did something happen?” I was, and remain, immensely grateful to the person who asked that question of me, and I’m incredibly thankful that, later, I didn’t hang back from asking that question myself.

by: D

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:25:05 +0000

Re Anon @ 23 & REI:
Perhaps better than iliciting advice from random blog commenters, professionals could be consulted. And to clarify, when I say not to press the issue, I don’t mean act like you have no concern, but rather don’t attempt to pry information. Such aggression, even if well intended, can be extremely threating to someone who is dealing with having had control taken from them.

by: realityfighter

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:37:11 +0000

To whoever said the bit about “if rape happened to 10-15% of men” - I’m sure I’m not representative, but I’ve had equal numbers of men and women come to me with their rape stories. The men definitely suffer less for it, and they have a whole world of support devices to draw from afterward, but their reporting rate is incredibly low because of some MASSIVE acts of denial.

If anyone else here has listened to a man painfully describe his sexual assault, only to have him get annoyed at you for not congratulating him, you know just how much denial we’re talking about here.

Damn, it’s hard to talk about this without sounding like some sort of MRA. Suffice it to say I’ve seen the same psychological issues played out in both sexes.
I think consent works both ways, and reframing rape as a crime committed against a person is good for everyone, we can make the world a better place, kumbaya, etc.

But mostly I get this chilling feeling that I already know what would happen if 10-15% of men were rape victims, because maybe they already are.

by: realityfighter

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:34:53 +0000

I am increasingly able not to take personally.

And that, Amanda. is why you amaze me. I’m still working on that one myself; another five years and I might get the hang of it.

by: Chet

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:40:22 +0000

The questions were worded to allow this situation to be termed rape. I disagree.

So, the concept of coercion through intoxication has no meaning for you?

I’m curious - in how many of these “regrettable hook-up becomes rape” scenarios did the woman actually give full, enthusiastic consent? As opposed to simply lying there while the guy did his thing? That would be none, right?

by: Mold

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:27:50 +0000

Being of a certain age, I have heard of many rapes. Friends, co-workers, strangers, dates, husbands, lovers, etc. Violence or only the threat of violence. Brutal force or the unstoppableness that comes from being twice her size.

Just because Ms Entitled wakes up with regrets for a hook-up or the partner wasn’t up to her standards is not rape. The questions were worded to allow this situation to be termed rape. I disagree.

We make our choices as adults and live with them. If that means having sex and then, upon sober reflection, thinking it was not the best option, so be it.

by: speedbudget

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:51:22 +0000

I was raped by an old high school friend in college. I couldn’t admit to myself what had happened to me until a friend carefully explained that acquaintance rape is, indeed, rape. When I tried to report it, I was flat-out denied by the RA because I “might ruin the life of this young man.” And also because I might be “confused about what happened.”

So does that explain to McDonald why a lot of rapes don’t get reported?

by: Jennifer

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:12:46 +0000

I’m reminded of my self-defense teacher years ago- one of those black belt types- telling the class that she’d had attempts at assaults happen to her twice. She fended them off. One time she went to the cops, the other time she didn’t. She said she wished she’d never gone to the cops.

*sigh*

It makes me wonder: what would I do if/when it happens to me? Hell, my cousin is one of those asshole cops, I’d never hear the end of it if he found out about it- that it’d be all my fault, I’m sure. I wouldn’t want to just lie down and take it, but it seems like everyone who’s “been there” says you’re better off letting them get away with it right off, since they will get away with it anyway even if you prosecute.

by: Erika

Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:56:43 +0000

Female rape apologists strike me as the worst sort of superstitious people. They want to believe that they can’t be raped, as long as they don’t drink too much, don’t go up to a man’s apartment unless they plan on sleeping with him, etc. They have so much invested in this that men, not women, men make the better jurors in a rape case. I wonder who’s more likely to report a rape: a woman who understands what rape is and that it can happen to anyone, no matter what you do, or a woman who has convinced herself that, if you follow the “rules”, you won’t be raped.

Anyway, as far as I’m concerned, rape apologists bear more of the responsibility of rape than any woman who drank too much, left her drink unguarded at a bar, or fell for a man’s “What me? I wouldn’t hurt you.” and let him into her apartment. They create a climate where women are too afraid and ashamed to report the crime and where rapists know that society at large will defend them and that they’ll likely never suffer consequences for their actions.

Of course, the primary person responsible is the rapist, and only the rapist.