Hat tip to Lauren for this.
In other sex news (since the category does promise it on occasion), it appears that some scientists have shown that the G-spot exists using ultrasound. They also found that some women don’t even have one. Some feminists are angry about this study, pointing out that it’s another example of women’s word being doubted until some random instruments shows (surprise!) we aren’t especially delusional creatures living in a fantasy land. There’s also the issue, apparently, that some straight men appear to be only interested in the G-spot because they think it’s a way you can bully her if she can’t come by vaginal intercourse. If that’s true, then whether or not the existence of the G-spot is real is irrelevant to these guys’ desires; everything I’ve heard about it makes it sound like a lot more finger work than the clit ever could be.
On the whole, I’m pleased. I agree that some of the debate over whether or not there’s a G-spot does fit into the long historical problem of men assuming they know more than women about sexuality, and therefore inventing things like the vaginal orgasm or finding the clit to be a useless piece of skin. While that’s all no doubt part of this, the other part is that there’s an actual physical disparity between women that is genuinely frustrating to actual women who aren’t stupid. Why can some do it and some can’t? Well, this research seems to indicate that it’s because women are physically different. This research is going to relieve the minds of a lot of women who aren’t stupid, but just have read and believed accounts by women who have ejaculation-level G-spot orgams, and are frustrated that they can’t. So I applaud that.
Ten songs at random from your MP3 player or computer. Leave ‘em in comments. Here’s mine:
- “New Words”—Bugs in the Dark
- “On Repeat”—LCD Soundsystem
- “Dirty Laundry”—Bitter:Sweet
- “Brickwall”—The Big Boys
- “Silent”—The Field
- “Block Alarm”—The Strays
- “Dry”—William Elliot Whitmore
- “Tramp”—Otis Redding
- “Les Cavaliers Du Ciel”—Les Fingers
- “Dry”—PJ Harvey
Videos below the fold.
“Dirty Laundry” by Bitter:Sweet:
I’ve slowly but surely gone from thinking LCD Soundsystem is just a fun band to thinking they’re one of the best bands out there today. Here’s their song “North American Scum”.
79 Responses to “Friday Random Ten “You Can’t Say That On (American) Television” Edition”
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“Spot The Spot” edition:
1. Lord I’ve Been Changed - Tom Waits
2. The New Underground - Guster
3. Endgame - R.E.M.
4. Mr. Harris - Aimee Mann
5. I’m So Sick - Flyleaf (screamy nu-metal chicks, guilty pleasure)
6. Greener - Tally Hall
7. El Tango Perdido - Mocha Lab
8. Joey - Concrete Blonde
9. Oh Marie - Sheryl Crow
10. Slackjawed - The Connells
Bonus:
Soul Meets Body - Death Cab For Cutie
that first video was priceless
1. “Got 2 Let U” - The Knife
2. “My My Metrocard” - Le Tigre
3. “Fuga” - Astor Piazzolla
4. “Une Annee Sans Lumiere” - The Arcade Fire
5. “Star Wars Main Title” - John Williams
6. “Alpha in Tauris” - The Mountain Goats
7. “The Circus is Leaving Town” - Isobell Campbell and Mark Lanegan
8. “Battle on the Bridge” - Masaharu Iwata and Hitoshi Sakimoto
9. “Episode 9 of the Hitch-Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” - Peter Jones et al, created by Douglas Adams
10. “Pot be bop” - Voltura
It’s called science and it requires proof. Please don’t get angry because there is more than a statement required.
The science of women’s bodies trails men’s because
1. For many years only men could practice
2. The funding was predicated on male models
3. There were pools for experiments-mil,jail, etc
4. Fundy prohibitions on female nakedness
We now have many women doing the toil of research and it will take time.
10 and only 10
10. “Simple Twist Of Fate” - Bob Dylan
10. “Dicipline” - California Guitar Trio With Tony Levin
10. “Evita’s Lullaby” - Alejandro Escovedo
10. “Psychopomp” - Mickey Hart, Airto, Flora Purim
10. “Missouri Uncompromised” - Pat Metheny
10. “Elegy” - Lisa Gerrard & Patick Cassidy
10. “Angry Cockroaches” - Tito & Tarantula
10. “An Gasur Mor/Bunker Hill/Dogs Among The Bushes” - Altan
10. “Second Nature” - Clannad
10. “Flying Home” - Robert Fripp & The League Of Crafty Guitarists
10. “My Big Hands (Fall Through The Cracks)” - David Byrne
10. “Like Organza” - Brian Eno & Jah Wobble
“What is it with you and holes?” edition.
1. “Magical Colors” - Jon Spencer Blues Explosion
2. “Awaken” - Dethklok
3. “Electricity” - Jimmy Murphy
4. “Long Black Veil” - Rice, Grismon & Garcia
5. “Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic” - The Police
6. “Fever” - The Cramps
7. “Surfromania” - Laika & The Cosmonauts
8. “Nasty By Nature” - New York Ska Jazz Ensemble
9. “Warsaw” - Joy Division
10. “Seek And Destroy” - Agent Orange
Bonus: “The More I See You” - Junior Kelly
My goodness, what are we to do with these women and their orgasms. Indeed, we must tell them how they should orgasm, and reveal to them the physiogony of their orgasms. Thusly we can begin to instruct them on the right and proper way with which they should orgasm, so that they might do so without damaging their delicate constitutions.
1. Citronella by Aesop Rock 2. Under the Milky Way by The Church 3. The Golden Age of Leather by Blue Oyster Cult 4. Pick Up the Pieces by Average White Band 5. Good Music by The Roots 6. Girl Blue by The Main Ingredient 7. Click Click by The English Beat 8. Up the Hill Backwards by David Bowie 9. Milk Cow Blues by Aerosmith 10. Sunnyland by Elmore James
yea for another acknowledgment that women are all different! it’s never more disappointing (and a prelude to a “fuck you!”) to hear a lover say, “well, my exes could”.
random no work today ten:
1. Versus- “Radar Follows You”
2. Windy & Carl- “Set Adrift”
3. Mason Proper- “Chemical Dress Eliza”
4. Drive Like Jehu- “Step on Chameleon”
5. Shotmaker- “In the Name of”
6. Isis- “Dulcinea”
7. No Knife- “Minus One”
8. Dag Nasty- “Trouble Is” Fuck, yeah!
9. La Peste- “Kindness Invites Abuse”
10. Annuals- “Brother”
random bonus: Blonde Redhead- “Down Under”
Paranoid some, Mighty Ponygirl?
“Thusly we can begin to instruct them on the right and proper way with which they should orgasm, so that they might do so without damaging their delicate constitutions.”
Why the hell not. After all, there’s a whole list of people trying to determine exactly where, with whom, and under what circumstances women are allowed to have orgasms.
They might as well just follow through and tell you exactly how to have ‘em too…
My Random Ten:
01. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence [42:02] — Dream Theater
02. Pictures of Home [05:23] — Deep Purple
03. Dress You Up [live] [05:37] — Madonna
04. Rock Steady [05:10] — The Whispers
05. A Woman in Love (It’s Not Me) [04:24] — Tom Petty
06. Touch Me (All Night Long) [12″ version] [09:33] — Wish & Fonda Rae
07. Finally [04:06] — CeCe Peniston
08. Everybody Dance [08:25] — Chic
09. Baby I’m a Star [Extended] [07:36] — Prince & the Revolution
10. Tarkus [20:41] — Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Bonus:
11. Got Me Under Pressure [04:00] — ZZ Top
12. A Quick One While He’s Away [09:09] — The Who
13. 20th Century Boy [03:40] — T. Rex
14. Roses Are Red [05:50] — The Mac Band
15. Words [04:27] — Missing Persons
16. Immigrant Song [02:24] — Led Zeppelin
17. Shake Your Love [05:47] — Deborah Gibson
18. Cheatin’ Woman [04:41] — Lynyrd Skynyrd
19. Touch Me (All Night Long) [04:06] — Cathy Dennis
20. Tip On In [03:40] — Fabulous Thunderbirds
21. Yours Is No Disgrace [09:42] — Yes
About” A Quick One While He’s Away”, the US forced The Who to change the title of the album from A Quick One to Happy Jack
k. hmm… I do this post once in a while in some blogs. Just to defocus people’s music stash from major labels.
(warning this is massive amount of information)
Where to find good indie music?
(note: this is mainly indie, rock, folks. Blog/net oriented. They are legit/semi legit, instead of deep underground.)
full list of major mp3 blogs (mostly recent indie)
http://hypem.com/toplist
blog aggregator
http://hypem.com/
http://elbo.ws/
various sites
http://www.insound.com/mp3/mp3s.php
http://betterpropaganda.com/
http://www.tonspion.de/mp3_uebersicht.php
If I only know music I currently have, how can I extend my library?
http://www.music-map.com/
http://www.last.fm/
http://www.pandora.com/
also: amazon recommendation list.
How to avoid major label like a plague: the easy list
http://www.riaaradar.com/zeitgeist_topamazonsafe.asp
The longer list:
get to know musicians
How to get the really underground stuff?
1. google
2. go to various specialized forums and start talking, usually after awhile you can get into various darknet.
3. p2p (but you know how it goes, it’s for tourists these days)
4. get on mailing lists and talk to people on the net (which people? well. if you have to ask… you need to go around little longer)
This should cover about 80-90% of your near future library addition.
Sometimes Random Means Random Edition
“Trapped in the Body of a White Girl” - Julie Brown
“Rock Non-Stop (All Night Long)” - Big Audio Dynamite
“A Stroke of Luck” - Garbage
“Quiche Loraine” - B-52’s
“Clouds” - Spires That In The Sunset Rise
“Tom Traubert’s Blues” - Tom Waits
“Real Black Angel” - MC 900 Ft Jesus & DJ Zero
“Fame (90’s Remix)” - David Bowie
“The Goin’ Get Tough From The Getgo” - Ween
“Simoom” - The Creatures
Godmonkey, since women were told by “science” for decades that if they couldn’t have a “vaginal orgasm” they were broken and immature, there’s a reason for women to be suspicious of attempts to use science to bully women into denying our sexual realities. It turns out that there’s no actual thing as a vaginal orgasm, really, just clitoral orgasms caused by hands and mouths and those caused by rubbing during intercourse. And we needed science to come in and prove that because “science” made up the vaginal orgasm in the first place.
Again, the G-spot is just a lot different. Everything I’ve read from people who actually have one says that you have to rub it with your fingers, and that the orgasms are accompanied by a massive ton of liquid, a female ejaculation. Bully for people who can do that, but I’ve never seen it as some horrible tragedy if you can’t. In fact, I’ve heard that it’s often just a pain in the ass to deal with the mess.
That said, I’d be utterly unsurprised if there are lots of people who don’t realize that the G-spot is this specific thing and instead assume it’s just a way to bully women into feeling they have to orgasm through intercourse alone.
I’m sorry, but the vision of masturbating on an ultrasound probe to prove one has a G-spot just gets me.
As a matter of fact, the field diagnosis for having one is “do you come lying flat on your back in the missionary position?” If the answer is yes, likely you have one. We figured that out in lady chat over 25 years ago.
What? Every woman is different?
There’s a bit of a Catch-22 for heterosexual guys here. To really be able to appreciate, on a personal level, how different women are in this respect, a man needs to:
1) be interested in his partner’s orgasm (because of the pleasure it brings his partner, rather than as validation of his own libido),
2) be able to have frank discussions about sex with his partner, and
3) have multiple relationships that meet the above criteria, so he can experience differences between women.
I would suggest that men who are described by 1) and 2) above are likely to have healthier, longer-lasting relationships with women, so it will take them longer to reach 3). The result is that a disappointingly small percentage of guys ever get there.
Our pathological popular discourse about sex, of course, doesn’t help; it celebrates men’s “conquests” of multiple women while making women’s sexual pleasure at best a secondary effect, and more or less ignoring the need for frank discussions about sex between partners.
Really comprehensive sex education could help solve this problem, but good luck with that in the face of the anti-sex attitudes that still pervade our discourse.
I’m posting this because reading the thread sparked some reflection on my own sexual education; I remember how hard it was to develop a healthy sexual identity. (Odds are, I’m not there yet, but we are all works in progress.)
I’m guessing none of this is news to Pandagon readers, but I feel that outlets like this blog are one promising force for advocating change in cultural attitudes about sex. I would just remind you that such advocacy is more effective if it’s leavened by some patience with and sympathy for people who are not yet as enlightened as you’d like them to be. “Masculinity” can be every bit as much of a box as “femininity” is, and the fact that “masculine” roles include a presumption of social dominance can make them even harder to escape, because one has less motivation to do so.
Male orgasm captured on film (slightly NSFW picture)
I’m in favor of scientific research of sexuality but I think all such studies should begin with the gigantic disclaimer that “all women’s bodies are different,” in the same way all diet aids should have “results may vary” at the forefront rather than attached as an aside. None of this research is the slightest bit helpful unless it’s understood that these partials explanations will not apply to everyone.
I’ve had male lovers who were angry and insulting, even physically harmful when they discovered that I was not going to come vaginally, or at all. As though my physical pleasure was yet another thing they had the right to own… if everyone talked about sex a lot more, those guys would have understood that women’s bodies can be drastically different. Hell, they’d understand that men’s bodies can be drastically different too - it shouldn’t come as a surprise that not all men like to masturbate the same way or be stimulated by a partner in the same way. It’s equally hurtful to presume some monolithic properly-sexed body for either sex.
Not quite — according to the other blog post, the scientists found that all women don’t have G-spots. So it is about women’s word being doubted — but not our word that we have G-spots, specifically; it’s our individual words about what does and doesn’t give us pleasure.
As the paragraph is phrased, I took it as “women have been claiming to have G-spots for years, but doctors have all doubted it,” which isn’t the case at all.
I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody will find out that “G-spot” doesn’t exist. There is no such concentration of nerve ending. (who started that meme research anyway? must be some seriously bored grad student)
This is sort of how kids learning “tongue” taste buds. That there are area in tongue that is better suitable for certain taste. Until some biomolecular dude decide, not only the dsitribution of receptors for each tastes are rather scattered equally, and each receptor can taste all 5 major primary tastes, but we also missing ONE type of receptor. (umami)
I wonder if some smart ass hack a gene to plant more nerve ending on wrong area of human body. tee heee…
PS. it is possible in the future to have a person to have more brain receptor. (you can remember more stuff without caffeine that way.)
wanna fund that sort of research?
So not having a G-spot, does that mean you flat out don’t have that stiff striated spot a couple inches in, or that it just doesn’t do anything for you? I’m really surprised.
1. 3MG - 2010
2. Flux of Pink Indians - Punk2
3. Skalpel - Test Drive
4. Ted Leo and the Pharmacists - The One Who Got Us Out
5. Electrelane - The Lighthouse
6. Big Youth - Hot Stock
7. April March - Tu Mens
8. Mano Negra - Ronde de Nuit
9. Franz Ferdinand - I’m Your Villain
10. JR Writer - Down & Out Freestyle
It sounds like some women just don’t have that spot, which I would also find surprising. I find it less surprising (in fact, I find it feckin’ obvious) that some women enjoy being touched there and some don’t.
“While that’s all no doubt part of this, the other part is that there’s an actual physical disparity between women that is genuinely frustrating to actual women who aren’t stupid.”
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. That’s the perfect way to put it. While men’s research into TEH MYSTERIOUS PUSSAY is incredibly annoying, I would absolutely love to know why I can come one way and not the other.
I’m in favor of scientific research of sexuality but I think all such studies should begin with the gigantic disclaimer that “all women’s bodies are different,” in the same way all diet aids should have “results may vary” at the forefront rather than attached as an aside.
That’s great, but “everybody’s different” isn’t some magical phrase that automatically brings the research into incredible clarity; in fact, quite the opposite. It’s obfuscatory. It’s obvious that people are different, the question is, in what ways are they different and in what ways are they the same?
Knowing that people are different is obvious, and therefore useless. The problem is knowing specifically how one given individual is different. If a woman comes into the doctor’s office with orgasm problems, it’s not helpful to point out that some women have the g-spot and some don’t, she wants to know if she does. And having a diagnostic criteria for detecting one is helpful for that.
There’s a reason that the research doesn’t appear to proceed from the assumption that all women are different. The reason is because that’s the assumption that makes research impossible. The only way research proceeds is by categorization, and that’s a function of identifying the ways in which groups of women are the same as each other.
Elinor, I think there’s incredible frustration from both sides.
Het women who have clitoral orgasms (historically) have been declared “sexually immature” and hysterical, currently they’re just fussy or demanding or frigid. They suffer from sexual partners who don’t understand the clitoris (nature’s rubix cube!) and end up mangling it, or who think that if they can just stay hard a little while longer, she’ll be able to climax vaginally and reaffirm the awesome power of his penis. So having scientists come out and say “hey, the G-Spot exists” just props that up the idea that the clit isn’t necessary, esp with men who don’t understand that women are all different.
Het women who have vaginal orgasms have to contend with the fact have been dismissed by feminists for the last few decades — “there can’t be such a thing as a vaginal orgasm because it would make childbirth too painful” was one of my favorite lines in a woman’s study course. The attempt to describe women’s physiology as a monolith was more about the political and symbolic act of sex: women who just liked missionary-position sex were backlashes, possessing a false consciousness and having bought into the worship of the almighty phallus. “Mythical” G-spots aside, no attempt was made to explain that for some women, that position with a particular partner might result in the best combination of clitoral stimulation without irritation during sex, and that internal vaginal pressure might actually stimulate an area toward the front of the vagina that has a large cluster of nerves in it–nope, she’s just a throwback.
So I guess you can count me as one of those “angry feminists.” Or paranoid, or whatever.
“1. For many years only men could practice
2. The funding was predicated on male models
3. There were pools for experiments-mil,jail, etc
4. Fundy prohibitions on female nakedness”
Um, Mold? None of those things stopped male doctors from experimenting on women and trying to figure them out because wow they’re just so complicated and impossible to understand! It just seems like women don’t have a medical history because no one ever thought to ask THEM about their OWN BODIES. Male doctors described not only the bodies of their patients but also their own bodies. More female doctors = a better and truer understanding of female patients bodies.
1. Sleeping on the Sidewalk - Queen
2. You Don’t KNow Me At All - Bettye LaVette
3. I Will Never Be the Same - Melissa Etheridge
4. Maybe Sparrow - Neko Case
5. Bees - Animal Collective
6. Decepatcon - Le Tigre
7. Return of the ‘G’ - Outkast
8. Something More Besides You - Cowboy Junkies
9. Fado Portugues De Nos - Mariza
10. Sheena is a Punk Rocker - The Ramones
Oh, and:
1. “Talk to Me” - Cham
2. “Two Step Remix featuring T-Pain, Jim Jones & E-40″ - Unk
3. “Call on Me” - Eric Prydz
4. “War” - Baby Ranks
5. “Glassy” - DJ Rekha & Hard Kaur
6. “Wind It Up” - Gwen Stefani
7. “My England” - Lady Sovereign
8. “Mira Mira” - T-Weaponz featuring Notch and Pitbull
9. “Jhoom” - Shankar Mahadevan
10. “It’s Me Snitches” - Swizz Beatz
I’ll leave the g-spot stuff to those who actually have a clue, unless you subscribe to the notion of ‘’those who can’t do, teach” in which case, I have some advice on how to get a good deal on a new home loan too..
Anyway:
1. “Dumb” - Nirvana
2. “Somebody get me a Doctor” - Van Halen
3. “Smoke Two Joints” - Toyes (not crappy Sublime cover)
4. “Cuts You Up” - Peter Murphy
5. “Pepper” - Butt Hole Surfers
6. “Dare” Gorillaz
7. “Dead Embryonic Cells” - Sepultura
8. “Indians” - Anthrax
9. “Private Idaho” - B-52’s
10. “Films” - Gary Numan Fat synthesizers
1. Wild Child – W.A.S.P.
2. Bye, Bye Baby – Big Brother and The Holding Company
3. You Don’t Have To Cry – Crosby, Stills & Nash
4. Cyberface – Judas Priest
5. Sadness – Donavan
6. The Clairvoyant – Iron Maiden
7. Damned For All Time/Blood Money – Jesus Christ Superstar
8. You’re Crazy- Guns ‘n’ Roses
9. Four Horsemen – The Clash
10. The Right Profile – The Clash
Old 60’s rock, metal and punk. I need to expand my horizons.
Everything I’ve read from people who actually have one says that you have to rub it with your fingers, and that the orgasms are accompanied by a massive ton of liquid, a female ejaculation. Bully for people who can do that, but I’ve never seen it as some horrible tragedy if you can’t. In fact, I’ve heard that it’s often just a pain in the ass to deal with the mess.
No, there are various techniques that contact the hotspot; not always, the quantity varies just like any other bodily fluid; and not if you’re a good Scout and prepare.
Obviously your point is YMMV, but I had to give the shout-out to the female ejaculation. I have no vested interest in whether any particular woman wants to experience it, but have to say that I’ve never been with a woman who actually couldn’t, rather than not wanting to have that sensation (ever again, tonight, again this week).
In a more equitable world, the owner-operator of the genitals in question would have the final word on what works down there.
White now - Cassetteboy
We Never Speak as We Pass By - Douglas Pennington/Cincinnati University Singers
Maximum Sexual Joy - Glaxo Babies
Jessie’s Dream - The Beatles
Sheena Is a Punk Rocker - The Ramones
The Barking Dogs Vs. The Minimalists - Henry Kaiser
Gospel Train - The Jones Brothers
My Melancholy Baby - Benny Goodman
It’s a Knockoff - Sparks
The Concept of Concept - Henry Kaiser & Sergei Kuriokhin
I think some of this criticism seems a bit off base to me. Humans of neither sex have innate, privileged knowledge of their anatomy and physiology. “It’s my body; I know how it works” is as likely to be overconfident delusion as real knowledge.
There are ignorant men who think that semen is stored in their testicles, and aren’t really aware of their prostates. There are ignorant women who think that they can’t get pregnant the first time they have sex.
Yet while these clear cases of ignorance require no scientific investigation, since the facts are already confirmed, there are many areas where we are all ignorant about how the human body — male or female — works. These are areas, of course, where scientists do their work.
When researchers confirm something already suspected of being true, it’s tempting to ask why they’re wasting our time and money, when they could have just asked any of us, but we don’t have innate access to encyclopedic knowledge of our own bodies, and often popular beliefs turn out to be wrong. (”A diet high in protein from red meat is the key to good health,” “masturbation can cause blindness,” etc.)
PhoenixRising, seriously? I’m a woman with many woman friends and none of them can. I’m not doubting your personal experience, so I’m sorry if it comes off that way, but I just find it interesting. I don’t even have a g-spot in the first place.
“Our Time,” Yeah Yeah Yeahs
“Sister,” Sufjan Stevens
“Tire Swing, Kimya Dawson
“Guantanamo Canto,” Xiu Xiu
“The Garden,” Mirah
“Half Ghost,” Casiotone for the Painfully Alone
“Philosophia,” The Guggenheim Grotto
“Polanaise in Ab Major Op. 55 No. 1,” Frederick Chopin
“Edward is Dedward,” Emmy the Great
“Swimmers,” Broken Social Scene
As I age I realize that humans are the kiniest creatures. One woman would have rollicking huge orgasms if the NY Yankees won a game. Even if the game was taped. Another felt the earth move when her partner was a life-long rehabilitation project.We might want to spend less time worrying about the teenage physicality and more on the intellectual side.
I agree with Mighty Ponygirl here–any of the actual biological facts of the matter brought to light with spiffy ultrasound and such will inevitably be twisted around to fit the “penises are so damned awesome” narrative.
(I’m a bit fuzzy on exactly how ultrasound is helpful here–if you’re measuring erectile tissue, aren’t you going to get more variation based on how excited the subject’s feeling than based on actual anatomy?)
Meantime, Wikipedia has a fascinating list of homologues of the human reproductive system. It’s kind of interesting how all the bits match up.
1. Death - Au (well, that’s an auspicious beginning)
2. Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks
3. Plump - Hole
4. Baby What You Want Me To Do - Jimmy Reed
5. Night Train/Closing - James Brown
6. Unfair Kind of Fame - The Pastels
7. Adam+Eve Connection - Deerhoof
8. Ruby’s Arms - Tom Waits
9. Gatheration - Lady Sovereign
10. Company, Quarter #2 - Philip Glass
and the bonus: ELT - Wilco
Hmm, here’s my random (duo) 10:
Vökuró by Björk
Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise) by The Beatles
I Think I’m Paranoid by Garbage
The New Pollution by Beck
Boogie at the Wayside Lounge by Sleepy Labeef
My Little Corner Of The World by Yo La Tengo
Pretty Fly (For A White Guy) by The Offspring
Hey Jude by The Beatles
Motel Room in My Bed by X
Lost in the Supermarket by The Clash
Depending On You by Tom Petty
Remember When The Music (Reprise) by Harry Chapin
Julian Elson February 22, 2008 at 1:45 pm
we don’t have innate access to encyclopedic knowledge of our own bodies, and often popular beliefs turn out to be wrong. (”A diet high in protein from red meat is the key to good health,” “masturbation can cause blindness,” etc.)”
++++++
Yeah but you also have to admit medicine is fairly dubious as a science and the priesthood view of knowledge is fairly annoying (second, third opinion anybody? Shouldn’t everybody has access to knowledge and hack their own body if they want to?)
Current social view on body/medicine is distorting the potential of bio medical science. (One obvious one, Remember Ronald Reagan and AIDS research? and two decades down the road, that research is giving us reliable DNA sequencers and first synthetic organism)
If I were the power that be. My biggest project won’t be Universal health care or what not. I would make biomedical technology so cheap and accessible, even a tattoo parlor can fix ya up before lunch on anything.
Disease and illness should be reduced to nothing more than cellular engineering concern.
No touchy feely, no administration cost. no nothing. Ya just hack it and be done before lunch.
ok. this start to sound like bad review of ‘eXistenZ’ (pretty interesting movie I would say)
I would make biomedical technology so cheap and accessible, even a tattoo parlor can fix ya up before lunch on anything.
And once we put down the science fiction and get into the real world we run into things like how individual differences really do matter and that the body is a rather complicated system with extensive feedback loops and variability that we’re just now barely starting to scratch the surface of.
Note also there are tradeoffs. If it’s so easy to “fix” things in a backroom lab, it’s immeasurably easier to fix simpler organisms (such as bacteria) break things in the same lab.
I, too, am frustrated by the paucity of previous studies on this and other subjects related to female sexuality, and the attempts to codify the female orgasm as either-or. I most certainly do orgasm without clitoral stimulation, and whether or not it is physiologically different, it is experientially different.
Also irritating to me is the idea that the only way to cause female ejaculation is to stimulate the G-spot. I find, and others to whom I have spoken who particularly appreciate female ejaculation agree, that the easiest way to cause it is to apply a lot of stimulus to the area around the clitoris. I also find that female ejaculation does not necessarily coincide with orgasm.
I don’t find my own ejaculation to be especially enjoyable, and given the volume I produce and, ah, other aspects of it, I find cleanup to be frustrating when all I want to do is lay there and relax. Plus, it can be overstimulating for me. All of the above have led me to discourage most of my partners from paying too much attention to my clit and from performing cunnilingus for extended periods. I really prefer penetration most of the time.
Which, yes, makes me one of those women who tends to leave male lovers saying, “But my ex could…” to their next partners (and actually be telling the truth). Sorry.
As a matter of fact, the field diagnosis for having one is “do you come lying flat on your back in the missionary position?” If the answer is yes, likely you have one. We figured that out in lady chat over 25 years ago.
Nope, gotta disagree. Maybe, but it’s kind of hard to stimulate it that way, from what I’ve heard talking to people who’ve pulled off the ejaculation stunt. I come from missionary (TMI, I know), and it’s because of where my clit is. I know that’s what it is. Much experimentation.
I’m not going to deny that someone has probably had a G-spot orgasm in missionary position sex, but the myth of that’s what a missionary orgasm is is why feminists are hostile to this whole thing. It so quickly slides into demanding that all women orgasm through missionary position sex. If we admit that missionary orgasms are usually clitoral, then we can get back to remembering that the vast majority of female orgasms are clitoral, and lazy men are simply going to have to deal with touching it.
Though seriously, the only men worth sleeping with like touching it.
I realized my atypical lack of bluntness is probably making my point about the way you get a G-spot orgasm hard to understand. Basically, for most women, the penis (which is basically straight) won’t do it. You have to put your fingers inside the vagina, find the bit of thick skin to the front that’s a couple inches in, and do the “come here” motion. That hardy is phallus-centric. And I know that I can’t get there that way, and not from lack of trying. But a missionary position orgasm is easy—I think it probably has something to do with the position of the clit.
In fact, they make G-spot stimulators, and they’re a lot different looking than regular dildos. They’re basically hooked at the end.
Elinor, I’ll clarify.
The “No Gas, No Compromise” edition:
1) Edith Frost, “Waiting Room”
2) Heavens to Betsy, “Axemen”
3) Beatles, “Ticket to Ride”
4) Stereolab, “Brigitte”
5) Stereolab, “Captain Easychord”
6) Bound, “Just Like Always (Disaster)”
7) Behead the Prophet, No Lord Shall Live, “Obscene Tank Driver”
8) Janis Joplin, “Raise Your Hand”
9) Natalie Merchant, “Thick as Thieves”
10) Yo La Tengo, “Shadows”
I’m a woman with many woman friends and none of them can.
All I can say to that is: You and your friends must have lunch dates that make the waiter faint with excitement, because I’ve never in my life discussed female ejaculation with a woman who had not just that minute experienced it. TMI: Several of those conversations have taken the form: ‘OMGWTF wuz that!!?!?!?!?????’
Which makes me suspect that you and your friends are so much cooler than I am that you definitely shouldn’t be seen talking to me.
Also, how immature am I that the title of the next post juxtaposed with the content of this one is cracking me up?
“Homosexual Activity Causes Earthquakes”.
Well, no, floods. Highly localized ones. And even then, apparently only if you do it just exactly right. And only on some women.
But there’s no reason not to try, should the homosexual in question desire to!
I usually get G-spot orgasms from being penetrated from behind or from being on top (which works best depends on the penis involved). Which is part of how I know they’re not clitoral. Also, like Amanda, I experimented to be sure. Missionary orgasms are, for me, generally clitoral, but the friction is mild enough that I don’t get overstimulated or ejaculate.
I strongly object to be told that (some of) my orgasms aren’t real by other feminists. I don’t think it helps promote equality to deny my pleasure.
Fair points all. Doubtful these particular researchers are serving nefarious ends, though.
At all events, comes now word that we circumsized males aren’t having half the fun that our unexpurgated brethren enjoy. We may as well remain drunk, insofar as possible: that seemed to be the take-away.
Andrea, the stimuli that cause ejaculation are not what most het women get during sex. Just because you and your friends haven’t doesn’t mean that you can’t. Many women find that with an attentive partner who knows what he or she is doing, and a willingness to relax and go with it, they surprise themselves.
The Center for Sex Positive Culture in Seattle has been known to host how-to classes on female ejaculation.
I most certainly do orgasm without clitoral stimulation, and whether or not it is physiologically different, it is experientially different.
Well, that’s great, and presumably you do it without any vaginal stimulation either, since most of the clitoris is internal and it’s pretty close to physically impossible to stick anything up there without giving the clitoris SOME pressure and stimulation. Hell, kegels stimulate the clitoris. Not making any direct effort to do it /= not doing it. Your experiences are your experiences, but then again, human anatomy is human anatomy.
hen we can get back to remembering that the vast majority of female orgasms are clitoral, and lazy men are simply going to have to deal with touching it.
Though seriously, the only men worth sleeping with like touching it.
The clitoris in particular or the vagina in general? Either way, the thought boggles the mind. I’ve known dudes that didn’t like going down on women in general, which is mind-boggling as well. “It’s gross,” they said. “Are we talking about the same thing?” I say.
Generally younger cats, but once in a while, I’ve run across an actual adult male who pays taxes and everything yet is repulsed by the idea of cunnilingus. I can’t help but stare at them, frankly.
Okay, tunes…
1. “Just A Little Bit” - Jerry Lee Lewis
2. “61 Highway” - Mississippi Fred McDowell
3. “Grandma Harp” - Merle Haggard
4. “Down In Mississippi” - Mavis Staples
5. “Big Boss Man” - Elvis Presley
6. “Tell Me” - Howlin’ Wolf
7. “My Heart Would Know” - Hank Williams
8. “Whiskey And Women” - David Allan Coe
9. “Don’t Rock The Boat” - Eddie Floyd
10. “Cup Of Lonliness” - George Jones
Okay, fine: without direct clitoral stimulation.
But this is the whole scientific debate in a nutshell, isn’t it? Because we don’t actually know exactly what the anatomy and physiology of the area really are, do we? That’s exactly what this article is about.
And I have to ask: Do we, as feminists, really need to be ideologically attached to the anatomy being thus-and-such, or can we look at what the new data is and assimilate it without it causing us to get all upset?
Oh, and actually, I can, have, and do come without any genital stimulation at all. But I thought I’d go ahead and grant your point about the configuration of the clitoris first.
The Center for Sex Positive Culture in Seattle has been known to host how-to classes on female ejaculation.
Do they offer any convincing argument for why any woman who doesn’t have to should want to? This is one of women’s inborn physical advantages over men that I am not willing to give up; they can’t have a quick intense orgasm without making a mess, but we (the vast majority of us) sure can. No offense to women who just do this naturally, but framing it as an “ability”? Please. I bet lots of women have never known the joy of a leg cramp spasm right in the middle of vigorous sex, maybe I can start a workshop to convince women that just because they haven’t done it, doesn’t mean they can’t!
Many women find that with an attentive partner who knows what he or she is doing, and a willingness to relax and go with it, they surprise themselves.
Many women find that talking about their bodies as machinery in need of a skilled technician who knows it better than they do is really creepy and offensive. If you want to convince women this is a fun neat thing to do with their crotches, less of the skilled-partner/surprise talk please.
Yeah, apparently the clitoris is HUGE. The part we can see is the tip of the iceberg, but the nerve endings extend everywhere. But on the G-spot thing, it seems to me that it’s a matter or whether or not your internal nerve structure does that one thing for you.
The problem is that no matter what the physiological reason is for it, women who come more easily from intercourse than women who don’t will be held up as somehow sexually superior. Of course, the dichotomy is a false one. Women who do come during intercourse probably don’t every time and in every position. Women who don’t come just from intercourse can have a little assistance from Mr. Hand or Mr. Buzzy if they want that experience.
But shit, even if you could come from intercourse, if your lover thought that was an excuse to quit eating you out, you should dump him or pretend you can’t come from orgasm so that he does eat you out. There’s no reason to miss that experience.
Because we don’t actually know exactly what the anatomy and physiology of the area really are, do we?
Anatomy? Um, people have done dissections and stuff. I do believe we do know the general configuration and size of the clitoris (summary: pretty big, and mostly underground. Um, submerged. Whatever.)
Oh, and actually, I can, have, and do come without any genital stimulation at all. But I thought I’d go ahead and grant your point about the configuration of the clitoris first.
Dude, if a woman comes from having her elbows caressed I promise you I will not argue that there is a secret undiscovered elbow-clitoris nerve cluster. This isn’t feminist ideology, it’s my informed, though possibly flawed, understanding of anatomy. Truly.
Sophonsiba, they provided the class in response to demand from members. There were seriously enough women who, for whatever reason, wanted to be able to do it to fill the class. My initial reaction was also, “Good grief, why would they want to?” I can, and don’t want to.
Amanda, would you possibly like to amend your last comment? “come from orgasm” doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Since I’m a “try anything once” kind of gal, I’ve gotten toys, articles, how-to videos, and skilled partners with lots of time on their hands galore to attempt that trick. Frustration and boredom results. After awhile, I realized that I’m simply disabled with this life-changing ability. And yes, I felt bad about myself, like I’m not sex positive enough, and that it was a lack of effort on my part. Though, honestly to have put more effort into it would have definitely moved sex from fun to work. It was already getting there.
So I’m cheered up by this research. I’m not a bad person who doesn’t try hard enough! I’m just built differently.
Anatomy? Um, people have done dissections and stuff. I do believe we do know the general configuration and size of the clitoris (summary: pretty big, and mostly underground. Um, submerged. Whatever.)
Sorry, I was unclear. Clearly, there are things we do not know about human female genitalia, and some of these may have a lot of bearing on this question.
Dude, if a woman comes from having her elbows caressed I promise you I will not argue that there is a secret undiscovered elbow-clitoris nerve cluster. This isn’t feminist ideology, it’s my informed, though possibly flawed, understanding of anatomy. Truly.
What a relief!
I’m sorry. Non-geeks please ignore.
less /clitoris/clit.conf
/* If you fail to climax, you may need to adjust your settings. */define('clit-location', '/vulva/clitoris/clit.php');
define('clit-sensitivity', 10); // this number may be adjusted based on your server.
define('clit-size', 2); // customize based on server performance.
define('female-ejac', FALSE); // do not enable without gspot.php installed.
if(!file_exists('clit-location') {
die('You're a man! Please refer to the man man pages for proper configuration.');
}
There were seriously enough women who, for whatever reason, wanted to be able to do it to fill the class.
Dude. No way. Again, I’m being immature, but: Any insights as to what was taught in the class? Because compared to Andrea and her crowd I’m apparently quite uptight but I’m having a hard time picturing this class.
Was this ‘learn about your clit and the 90% of the iceberg that is submerged’ in a technical and anatomical way, or something a bit more individualized? Also, wouldn’t it be more sensible to run a class for straight dudes and lesbians to learn the techniques that are most likely to encourage female ejaculation?
Never mind, I’ve already revealed far too much ignorance in this comment…
Okay, now could we get some scientific research into the non-ejaculatory / multiple male orgasm?
This study is interesting, but hardly enough to suggest (using ultrasound!) that a large percentage of women lack a G-spot.
So if scientists don’t study women, it’s bad because they’re ignoring us. But if scientists do study women, it’s bad because they didn’t trust our self-reporting?
And what’s with the rampant gendering of science here?
heh. SQUASHED! I appreciate both of your first comments. The first being something I’ve been itching to say for some time.
Well it will take few more years until cheap genetic sequencing becomes available before we can test that hypothesis. Right now, it will take the GDP of a small country to sequence several sets of genes to find out which region are responsible for nerve endings in human reproduction organ
In the meantime my hand waving arguments:
1. Why would mother nature put bunch of nerve ending in the middle of nowhere?
2. If I were to design pleasure loving reproduction machines. I would make sure the nerve ending is maximized to reward the “oomph-ommph” action so the mechanotrons are more than happy to spread the genes. Easy access, anything goes, sensitive in places that matter. (jamming 2-4 fingers and digging around to push the button that might or might not be there is NOT conducive to survival of a species. )
3. now. I assume mother nature isn’t stupid and doesn’t waste time building ineffective design, specially for such big deal business like “reproduction”. I mean, we are talking about spread and multiply here. The biggest crowd rules the planet. Gotta give the critter maximum pleasure to make sure they keep doing it.
Inspect male part, do you see any bump to stimulate G-Spot? do you? Which part has bulge?
now if you fit the two in doggy style, and consider the shape of each organs how clit is rubbing on the bottom of entire length.
Then if one would to look at side cross section, it should be the reverse of missionary.
Therefore taken together, the geometry of the male and female and how they move, should explain the ….. harder, harder. oh god…harder part… instead of..honey, get off of me …
(aren’t you glad I am not a medical student? lol)
If anyone wants to see a rather spiffy diagram of the submerged nature of the clit, Wikipedia has a good one. It makes me think of lighter-than-air flying machines, a bit.
The fact that a large portion of the diagram is a light, non-anatomical shade of pink is just icing.
Amanda, though you linked to me, you managed to miss my two main points:
1. The study’s conception is bogus. Using ultrasound to measure the urethrovaginal space of a non-aroused woman tells you nothing. It’s all hand-waving. I guess Italian urological research is not having a good year.
2. This is not being discussed as being about the medical profession “reassuring” women who don’t get vaginal orgasms that they’re normal (how patronising is that?). It’s about inventing a test to define a trumped-up “anatomical deficit” diagnosis, so that pharmacological and/or surgical techniques can be marketed at healthy, orgasmic women. It’s about expanding the market for useless radiology and unnecessary interventions.
It’s about going back to the stage where women with only clitoral-stimulation orgasms are told that they’re defective - the only difference is the head-patting “But it’s not your fault, dear”. Already, as a result of this study, New Scientist is burbling about giving testosterone to women who don’t have vaginal orgasms. Already doctors are injecting G-spots with all sorts of crap in “G-spot enhancement therapy”.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that you dismissed my article as “angry feminist”, when it was obviously a humorous snark with a bit of a bite. But I guess it’s a small step from “angry” to “hysterical”.
Phoenix rising, I seriously have very little idea. I’m a member at CSPC, but I missed the mailing that advertised it, and only heard about it during a conversation about female ejaculation with a couple of other members. In general, though, any sort of how-to class at the CSPC will encourage or require participants to come (sorry, couldn’t resist) as couples (or possibly triads), so they have people with whom to practice. All sexes welcome. Usually there’s some technical data offered, presumably in this case anatomical and physiological, and then some basic techniques are demonstrated by the instructor upon a volunteer subject (who is arranged for ahead of time, not a volunteer from the audience, usually). I believe it was mentioned to me that the women in this class were also given some advice on how to relax and let it happen, as well.
I think the people I was talking to had attended the class. Certainly they were both very good at getting results.
Various other parts of this thread cause me to want a verbal way to distinguish between the entire mass of clitoral tissue and the bit that sticks out.
Thanks, Rebecca. I checked their site and while there are thorough descriptions of workshops, none seemed to be on this topic.
Any woman to whom I suggested that if she’d just relax, it would happen, would be justified should she care to punch me in the mouth in reply. Hope they covered that along with the ‘advice’ along those lines. Because that would sting.
Already doctors are injecting G-spots with all sorts of crap in “G-spot enhancement therapy”.
Owwww. Ow. Ow.
That is sick, strange and wrong.
Someone was just saying that we can stop worrying about sexism.
I’m noticing that the medications to make male genitalia behave in a stereotyped fashion, used regardless of medical need, are taken by mouth. I wonder whether that was one of the user acceptance criteria. Picturing Bob Dole advertorial on getting gigged in his most vulnerable anatomy…must go rinse brain with bleach.
The class couldn’t have taken place any later than last summer, and was probably longer ago than that. I know they don’t archive stuff, either, so I’m not at all surprised it wasn’t there.
I did, in fact, receive the advice to just relax and let it happen, from the people I mentioned previously. In context, it was not an unreasonable thing to say (the entire situation having been thoroughly negotiated), and I was not at that moment in a position to be punching anyone, even if I had been so inclined.
ROFLMAO
Honestly, Rebecca, I thank you for the helpful tips, but if I hear one more time that I just need to relax, give it more time, or find a more caring partner, I’m going to lose it.
PhoenixRising, what the heck? Are you being sarcastic? I have no idea what you’re talking about. Was my first comment somehow wrong or offensive? Please don’t make fun of me because none of my friends can ejaculate when your personal experience shows that you’ve never been with a woman who couldn’t. I’d request that you don’t essentialize women’s bodies, or that you not make fun of me for having apparently inadequate friends, but I actually have no idea if that’s what you’re doing. Waiters on my lunch dates? What? I am seriously confused. Please explain.
Don’t Let Him Waste Your Time - Jarvis Cocker
In My Secret Place - Magnetic Fields
Cello Concerto in B-flat - Janos Starker
East St. Louis Tweedle-Dee - Steve Goodman
garlic head clown serenades ballerina crying vaseline tears - califone
Drifting - Jimi Hendrix
How Long - Information Society
I used to say I love you - Robyn Hitchcock
Earthquake (12-mix) - Flirtations
Permites Madrecita - Amparanoia
Not at all. I’m delighted that there is apparently a social milieu in which women feel free to discuss with their friends both what kinds of orgasms they’re having, and what kinds of activities lead thereto.
That’s great news. I’m just not nearly that cool. As in, if the waiter could hear me, I’d be too self-conscious to say any of that.
And yeah, I’m going with the ‘just relax, 5 cents please’ advice as ‘prelude to a knuckle sandwich’. That’s all I got.
Andrea, sorry. I didn’t mean it quite like that, and I get how it could be annoying.
1. Death Cab for Cutie–Different Names for the Same Thing
2. The Shins–So Says I
3. Fleetwood Mac–Thrown Down
4. Nirvana–Heart-Shaped Box
5. The Arctic Monkeys–The View from the Afternoon
6. Green Day–Letterbomb
7. The Good, the Bad, and the Queen–The Bunting Song
8. Led Zeppelin–Sick Again
9. Nirvana–Moist Vagina
10. ‘Wonderful,’ from the soundtrack to Wicked