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	<title>Comments on: Then democracy asserted itself, just like that</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: bacopa</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493532</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493532</guid>
					<description>I voted yesterday at the Barbara Bush library in NW Harris Co.The NW multi-service center near the north loop and the Jersey Village City Hall are closer, but I had to be out in that part of town anyway and I liked the irony.

They were going to have just two machines for all of Waller County? There are I think at least twelve machines in most polling places in Harris, and there are many more polling places. That's what takes when you've got almost two million registered voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I voted yesterday at the Barbara Bush library in NW Harris Co.The NW multi-service center near the north loop and the Jersey Village City Hall are closer, but I had to be out in that part of town anyway and I liked the irony.</p>
	<p>They were going to have just two machines for all of Waller County? There are I think at least twelve machines in most polling places in Harris, and there are many more polling places. That&#8217;s what takes when you&#8217;ve got almost two million registered voters.
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		<title>by: Laura</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493487</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493487</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Given that the population of Waller County is only about 35,000 and money for elections is probably small, it does not seem out of line to have only one early voting location at the courthouse.&lt;/i&gt;

Even if the students of Prairie View A&amp;amp;M hadn't been historically disenfranchised, the county officials had to know that this election is seeing record high turn out all over the county.  In my district, so many students at San Diego State University turned out to vote that not only did they run out of regular ballots, they also ran out of *provisional* ballots - those kids were voting on scraps of yellow legal paper.

So this year of all years, yes, it does seem out of line to have only one early voting location.  And the history of that school in that county shows it was no accident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Given that the population of Waller County is only about 35,000 and money for elections is probably small, it does not seem out of line to have only one early voting location at the courthouse.</i></p>
	<p>Even if the students of Prairie View A&amp;M hadn&#8217;t been historically disenfranchised, the county officials had to know that this election is seeing record high turn out all over the county.  In my district, so many students at San Diego State University turned out to vote that not only did they run out of regular ballots, they also ran out of *provisional* ballots - those kids were voting on scraps of yellow legal paper.</p>
	<p>So this year of all years, yes, it does seem out of line to have only one early voting location.  And the history of that school in that county shows it was no accident.
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493483</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493483</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I just think there are perfectly legitimate reasons why early voting was at the courthouse in this case.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yup: &quot;Because we've always gotten away with this before.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>I just think there are perfectly legitimate reasons why early voting was at the courthouse in this case.</blockquote>
Yup: &#8220;Because we&#8217;ve always gotten away with this before.&#8221;
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		<title>by: kenneth</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493441</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493441</guid>
					<description>I think this specific situation is being sensationalized. The early voting place that Waller County chose does not seem particularly out of line with how early voting works in Texas. Remember, this is early voting only. Election day polling places are much more numerous and convenient.

Amanda, your post seems misleading in stating that &quot;You can usually vote at any polling place in your county.&quot; In Harris County (Houston), early voting takes place in a limited number of centralized locations that aren't necessarily voting locations on the actual election day. I would guess that it's the same all over Texas. 

Given that the population of Waller County is only about 35,000 and money for elections is probably small, it does not seem out of line to have only one early voting location at the courthouse.

Don't get me wrong. I don't disagree that students are frequently inconvenienced and even disenfranchised. And I don't doubt that students at Prairie View probably have been wronged by the county any number of times over the years. I just think there are perfectly legitimate reasons why early voting was at the courthouse in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think this specific situation is being sensationalized. The early voting place that Waller County chose does not seem particularly out of line with how early voting works in Texas. Remember, this is early voting only. Election day polling places are much more numerous and convenient.</p>
	<p>Amanda, your post seems misleading in stating that &#8220;You can usually vote at any polling place in your county.&#8221; In Harris County (Houston), early voting takes place in a limited number of centralized locations that aren&#8217;t necessarily voting locations on the actual election day. I would guess that it&#8217;s the same all over Texas. </p>
	<p>Given that the population of Waller County is only about 35,000 and money for elections is probably small, it does not seem out of line to have only one early voting location at the courthouse.</p>
	<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong. I don&#8217;t disagree that students are frequently inconvenienced and even disenfranchised. And I don&#8217;t doubt that students at Prairie View probably have been wronged by the county any number of times over the years. I just think there are perfectly legitimate reasons why early voting was at the courthouse in this case.
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		<title>by: serena kitt</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493307</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493307</guid>
					<description>Say it with me now:
Young people are not apathetic. Young people are not sitting home watching YouTube. Young people are as active as they've ever been.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Say it with me now:<br />
Young people are not apathetic. Young people are not sitting home watching YouTube. Young people are as active as they&#8217;ve ever been.
</p>
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493236</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493236</guid>
					<description>Jesurgislac, I'm going to answer your question about reform, then cease hijacking this thread.

Have you ever seen the final scene of the original &quot;The Italian Job&quot;, with the bus balanced on the edge of the cliff and every option sucks, so they were sticking with the safest thing of not moving?  Canadian constitutional reform is like that.  If you wish you can go to wiki and look up the Victoria Charter, the Meech Lake Accord and the Charlottetown Accord.  

And no Canadian government of any political stripe will ever let Toronto be a province, should the subject come up.  It's like a big family where grandpa and nine of the ten uncles can legally and will always take whatever they want from the bank account of the fabulously successful nephew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jesurgislac, I&#8217;m going to answer your question about reform, then cease hijacking this thread.</p>
	<p>Have you ever seen the final scene of the original &#8220;The Italian Job&#8221;, with the bus balanced on the edge of the cliff and every option sucks, so they were sticking with the safest thing of not moving?  Canadian constitutional reform is like that.  If you wish you can go to wiki and look up the Victoria Charter, the Meech Lake Accord and the Charlottetown Accord.  </p>
	<p>And no Canadian government of any political stripe will ever let Toronto be a province, should the subject come up.  It&#8217;s like a big family where grandpa and nine of the ten uncles can legally and will always take whatever they want from the bank account of the fabulously successful nephew.
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		<title>by: louise</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493228</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493228</guid>
					<description>Sorry, I'm going to hijack this very interesting thread regarding Canadian elections for a minute to address Bill K's post: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;There is an early voting location about a block from the Prairie View A&amp;amp;M campus, but it opened after the first day of early voting when the march took place. There is also a polling location on the Prairie View A&amp;amp;M campus on election day. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, Bill, but in the 'Houston Chronicle' story, it clearly states that that was NOT the case until the Feds stepped in! Originally, it was going to be ONE POLLING PLACE- for all of those thousands of voters.

From the Houston Chronicle:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Last week, under pressure from federal authorities, Waller County officials added three temporary polling places for early voting, ditching plans to open only one voting site in advance of the March 4 primary.

The Justice Department questioned the county's original decision to cut early-voting sites from a half dozen throughout the county to one in Hempstead. Officials said the county could not afford equipment or staff to operate the additional sites.

Following an emergency meeting last week, the county submitted a revamped proposal to the Justice Department that included one more day of early voting on Thursday at the three new polling sites. Federal officials have 60 days to review and approve the plan, but have not raised any objections.

Debra Mergel, the county's attorney, said one of the added polling places about a mile from the campus will have early voting from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Thursday through Saturday.

Mergel defended the county's decision to have the polling place at a nearby community center rather than on campus.

&quot;It is in a county-owned building that we have always used,&quot; she said.

Some students had not learned about the added voting site near the campus, but Mergel said the county advertised it in the local media.

On Election Day, students can vote on campus in the University Alumni Association.

Christina Sanders, who helped organize the march and is a member of Black Youth Vote! Texas, said the county made concessions only after the Justice Department intervened and students complained.

She said the march was necessary to send a message to local officials that a lack of a voting place on campus &quot;is unacceptable.&quot;

The school has about 8,000 students, and officials estimate there are 3,000 registered voters among them.

State Rep. Sylvester Turner, D-Houston, called it a &quot;gross injustice&quot; that the county did not seek input from the minority community prior to before establishing polling sites. He said the county has a turbulent history of thwarting Prairie View students' attempts to vote.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And there is a long documented history of problems here, disenfranchising thousands of voters:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The controversy over voting came to a head in 2004 when students marched from the campus to the courthouse after former Waller County District Attorney Oliver Kitzman declared them ineligible to vote, claiming they did not meet state residency standards.

Meanwhile, the county is being investigated by the Texas Attorney General's Office based on complaints by local black leaders following after the November 2006 general election. Those allegations stem from voting machine failures, inadequate staffing and long delays for voting results.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And to answer TJ- NO. There was no mention on any of my local channels (online or broadcast), nor did it get a mention on NBC Nightly News. Small wonder, eh? 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry, I&#8217;m going to hijack this very interesting thread regarding Canadian elections for a minute to address Bill K&#8217;s post: </p>
	<blockquote><p>There is an early voting location about a block from the Prairie View A&amp;M campus, but it opened after the first day of early voting when the march took place. There is also a polling location on the Prairie View A&amp;M campus on election day. </p></blockquote>
	<p>Yes, Bill, but in the &#8216;Houston Chronicle&#8217; story, it clearly states that that was NOT the case until the Feds stepped in! Originally, it was going to be ONE POLLING PLACE- for all of those thousands of voters.</p>
	<p>From the Houston Chronicle:</p>
	<blockquote><p>Last week, under pressure from federal authorities, Waller County officials added three temporary polling places for early voting, ditching plans to open only one voting site in advance of the March 4 primary.</p>
	<p>The Justice Department questioned the county&#8217;s original decision to cut early-voting sites from a half dozen throughout the county to one in Hempstead. Officials said the county could not afford equipment or staff to operate the additional sites.</p>
	<p>Following an emergency meeting last week, the county submitted a revamped proposal to the Justice Department that included one more day of early voting on Thursday at the three new polling sites. Federal officials have 60 days to review and approve the plan, but have not raised any objections.</p>
	<p>Debra Mergel, the county&#8217;s attorney, said one of the added polling places about a mile from the campus will have early voting from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Thursday through Saturday.</p>
	<p>Mergel defended the county&#8217;s decision to have the polling place at a nearby community center rather than on campus.</p>
	<p>&#8220;It is in a county-owned building that we have always used,&#8221; she said.</p>
	<p>Some students had not learned about the added voting site near the campus, but Mergel said the county advertised it in the local media.</p>
	<p>On Election Day, students can vote on campus in the University Alumni Association.</p>
	<p>Christina Sanders, who helped organize the march and is a member of Black Youth Vote! Texas, said the county made concessions only after the Justice Department intervened and students complained.</p>
	<p>She said the march was necessary to send a message to local officials that a lack of a voting place on campus &#8220;is unacceptable.&#8221;</p>
	<p>The school has about 8,000 students, and officials estimate there are 3,000 registered voters among them.</p>
	<p>State Rep. Sylvester Turner, D-Houston, called it a &#8220;gross injustice&#8221; that the county did not seek input from the minority community prior to before establishing polling sites. He said the county has a turbulent history of thwarting Prairie View students&#8217; attempts to vote.</p></blockquote>
	<p>And there is a long documented history of problems here, disenfranchising thousands of voters:</p>
	<blockquote><p>The controversy over voting came to a head in 2004 when students marched from the campus to the courthouse after former Waller County District Attorney Oliver Kitzman declared them ineligible to vote, claiming they did not meet state residency standards.</p>
	<p>Meanwhile, the county is being investigated by the Texas Attorney General&#8217;s Office based on complaints by local black leaders following after the November 2006 general election. Those allegations stem from voting machine failures, inadequate staffing and long delays for voting results.</p></blockquote>
	<p>And to answer TJ- NO. There was no mention on any of my local channels (online or broadcast), nor did it get a mention on NBC Nightly News. Small wonder, eh?
</p>
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		<title>by: Jesurgislac</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493196</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493196</guid>
					<description>seeker: &lt;i&gt;Leave aside, for the moment, that we are using a system designed for a tiny, ethnically homogenous island possessed of a landed aristocracy to govern an ethnically diverse urban society splintered into the second largest land mass on the planet.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, that's a problem. Maybe you should have done what the tiny, not-so-homogenous island did, and reformed the system in the 19th century? *checks calendar* Or, since the 19th century is over everywhere but the US, maybe the 21st century is the time to have a reformation of the electoral system so that everybody entitled can vote and everybody's vote is counted...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>seeker: <i>Leave aside, for the moment, that we are using a system designed for a tiny, ethnically homogenous island possessed of a landed aristocracy to govern an ethnically diverse urban society splintered into the second largest land mass on the planet.</i></p>
	<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s a problem. Maybe you should have done what the tiny, not-so-homogenous island did, and reformed the system in the 19th century? *checks calendar* Or, since the 19th century is over everywhere but the US, maybe the 21st century is the time to have a reformation of the electoral system so that everybody entitled can vote and everybody&#8217;s vote is counted&#8230;
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		<title>by: Jacky Tar</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493193</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493193</guid>
					<description>That damn grit is up here in Canuckland, too.

&lt;b&gt;seeker6079&lt;/b&gt; makes some good points about the fundamental conflicts in Canada's parliamentary system, both at the federal and provincial levels. I'm not sure the republican model would work, either, though.

Rock on, Prarie View A&amp;amp;M!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That damn grit is up here in Canuckland, too.</p>
	<p><b>seeker6079</b> makes some good points about the fundamental conflicts in Canada&#8217;s parliamentary system, both at the federal and provincial levels. I&#8217;m not sure the republican model would work, either, though.</p>
	<p>Rock on, Prarie View A&amp;M!
</p>
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		<title>by: Hairhead</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493192</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/21/6766/#comment-493192</guid>
					<description>Just a bit more info about the Canadian electoral process. I've been a Poll Clerk and a Poll Captain in both federal and provincial elections, and I say that there is NOTHING more important in a democracy than 1) that elections be run on a non-partisan basis, 2) that the voting process be open to observation by volunteer scrutineers, and 3) that the voting process produce a paper trail. 

Now 1) and 3) have been covered at different times, but I think that 2) is equally important, and neglected. 

As a Poll Clerk, I had to inspect identification documents, ask identification questions, determine whether people not on the list had a right to vote, to explain ballots (without political prejudice), and cross names off a voting list, all according to a clear set of rules. 

And behind the tables, standing behind me, were volunteer scrutineers bearing labels with names and party affliations. The scrutineers could stand behind me and challenge me at any time in the process. This may sound intimidating, but it wasn't, because for every Conservative scrutineer, there a Liberal scrutineer or a New Democrat scrutineer, or a Communist or other scrutineer. (Basically, if your party is running in the election, you can place scrutineers at polling booths.) 

These people balanced each other out. If a C thought an immigrant with a strong foreign accent and poor English shouldn't vote and expressed so, immediately a L or ND scrutineer would challenge the challenge (BTW, the scrutineers were not allowed to go in front of the table or to address voters directly. Do either of those things and the Poll Captain could throw them out.) 

Now Canada is not a perfect representative democracy, but judging from our status on the livable-nation index, our health, our lack of deficit, etc., we are doing more than reasonably well. 

As for how we keep things non-partison in the elections process? All I can say is that the Canadian public keeps the political parties in line. Canadians have been found to be far more cynical than Americans in terms of our politics. Relatively few of us believe that one party is the answer to all of our problems. Rather, we view politicians as a necessary evil body politic, and we take care (generally) to toss them out regularly and even (after Brian Mulroney) completely destroy national parties (i.e. the Progressive Conservatives). 

As an outsider, it's hard for me to say what came first: the lack of participative which encouraged corrupt political parties to usurp the elections process, or a corrupted elections process which encouraged apathy. 

Whatever the answer, good luck to you folks down south! 


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just a bit more info about the Canadian electoral process. I&#8217;ve been a Poll Clerk and a Poll Captain in both federal and provincial elections, and I say that there is NOTHING more important in a democracy than 1) that elections be run on a non-partisan basis, 2) that the voting process be open to observation by volunteer scrutineers, and 3) that the voting process produce a paper trail. </p>
	<p>Now 1) and 3) have been covered at different times, but I think that 2) is equally important, and neglected. </p>
	<p>As a Poll Clerk, I had to inspect identification documents, ask identification questions, determine whether people not on the list had a right to vote, to explain ballots (without political prejudice), and cross names off a voting list, all according to a clear set of rules. </p>
	<p>And behind the tables, standing behind me, were volunteer scrutineers bearing labels with names and party affliations. The scrutineers could stand behind me and challenge me at any time in the process. This may sound intimidating, but it wasn&#8217;t, because for every Conservative scrutineer, there a Liberal scrutineer or a New Democrat scrutineer, or a Communist or other scrutineer. (Basically, if your party is running in the election, you can place scrutineers at polling booths.) </p>
	<p>These people balanced each other out. If a C thought an immigrant with a strong foreign accent and poor English shouldn&#8217;t vote and expressed so, immediately a L or ND scrutineer would challenge the challenge (BTW, the scrutineers were not allowed to go in front of the table or to address voters directly. Do either of those things and the Poll Captain could throw them out.) </p>
	<p>Now Canada is not a perfect representative democracy, but judging from our status on the livable-nation index, our health, our lack of deficit, etc., we are doing more than reasonably well. </p>
	<p>As for how we keep things non-partison in the elections process? All I can say is that the Canadian public keeps the political parties in line. Canadians have been found to be far more cynical than Americans in terms of our politics. Relatively few of us believe that one party is the answer to all of our problems. Rather, we view politicians as a necessary evil body politic, and we take care (generally) to toss them out regularly and even (after Brian Mulroney) completely destroy national parties (i.e. the Progressive Conservatives). </p>
	<p>As an outsider, it&#8217;s hard for me to say what came first: the lack of participative which encouraged corrupt political parties to usurp the elections process, or a corrupted elections process which encouraged apathy. </p>
	<p>Whatever the answer, good luck to you folks down south!
</p>
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