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	<title>Comments on: Hillary Clinton&#8217;s real problem</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: BobbyV</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492924</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492924</guid>
					<description>When the water cooler conversations turn to politics, most of the conservative mid-Westerners here express a visceral dislike for HRC. Their comments generally center on how the Clinton's are crooks or worse. My usual response is to remind them that a busload of special investigators pissing away over $170 Million dollars couldn't find any real dirt on the Clintons. For too many of these folks, their reality is a fabrication of Fox News and conservative talk-radio.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When the water cooler conversations turn to politics, most of the conservative mid-Westerners here express a visceral dislike for HRC. Their comments generally center on how the Clinton&#8217;s are crooks or worse. My usual response is to remind them that a busload of special investigators pissing away over $170 Million dollars couldn&#8217;t find any real dirt on the Clintons. For too many of these folks, their reality is a fabrication of Fox News and conservative talk-radio.
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		<title>by: Coturnix</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492899</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492899</guid>
					<description>Also a factor:

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/02/20/the-secret-of-obamas-success-and-why-hell-keep-winning-%e2%80%94-he-listens-to-george-lakoff/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also a factor:</p>
	<p><a href='http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/02/20/the-secret-of-obamas-success-and-why-hell-keep-winning-%e2%80%94-he-listens-to-george-lakoff/' rel='nofollow'>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/02/20/the-secret-of-obamas-success-and-why-hell-keep-winning-%e2%80%94-he-listens-to-george-lakoff/</a>
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		<title>by: napthia9</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492889</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492889</guid>
					<description>Ahhh, fuck it. Ignore the last part of my post, I don't want to argue about this. Your experience was as it was, my experience was as it was, and there's really no point arguing about which experience disproves the other, especially since I doubt we're even in the same state. I'd rather concentrate on debunking the narratives surrounding both candidates than on arguing with someone whom I probably agree with more than not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ahhh, fuck it. Ignore the last part of my post, I don&#8217;t want to argue about this. Your experience was as it was, my experience was as it was, and there&#8217;s really no point arguing about which experience disproves the other, especially since I doubt we&#8217;re even in the same state. I&#8217;d rather concentrate on debunking the narratives surrounding both candidates than on arguing with someone whom I probably agree with more than not.
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		<title>by: napthia9</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492878</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492878</guid>
					<description>Ms Kate:  I accept that you meant no offense. Your sentence is still confusing to people who aren't mind-readers, so may I assume that what you meant to say was that &quot;there were many rallies at the local and state level, plus the 27 robocalls I received leading up to Feb 5, when Hillary was pronounced the penultimate candidate and every woman who disagreed was smeared as a brainless trollip trying to impress her boyfriend. These things were far louder around me than the media was&quot;?

Before I respond to the content of your post, can I ask what the substance of those robocalls was? And not their essential meaning, but what exactly was said or done that seemed like her campaign was acting as if she was entitled to your vote?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ms Kate:  I accept that you meant no offense. Your sentence is still confusing to people who aren&#8217;t mind-readers, so may I assume that what you meant to say was that &#8220;there were many rallies at the local and state level, plus the 27 robocalls I received leading up to Feb 5, when Hillary was pronounced the penultimate candidate and every woman who disagreed was smeared as a brainless trollip trying to impress her boyfriend. These things were far louder around me than the media was&#8221;?</p>
	<p>Before I respond to the content of your post, can I ask what the substance of those robocalls was? And not their essential meaning, but what exactly was said or done that seemed like her campaign was acting as if she was entitled to your vote?
</p>
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		<title>by: Ms. Kate</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492848</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492848</guid>
					<description>Napthia, reading comprehension is an art. Learn it.  Are simple sentences easier for you?

So you voted for Obama too?  The local Clinton Machine Nasty around here considered me a brainless trolip trying to impress my boyfriend or the like.  Google Terese Murray for more information.

Does that make it more clear to you?  Or did you miss the part about 27 robocalls saying essentially that my vote was owned by Clinton because I was a registered democrat female?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Napthia, reading comprehension is an art. Learn it.  Are simple sentences easier for you?</p>
	<p>So you voted for Obama too?  The local Clinton Machine Nasty around here considered me a brainless trolip trying to impress my boyfriend or the like.  Google Terese Murray for more information.</p>
	<p>Does that make it more clear to you?  Or did you miss the part about 27 robocalls saying essentially that my vote was owned by Clinton because I was a registered democrat female?
</p>
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		<title>by: Drew</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492833</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492833</guid>
					<description>Hillary's only real problem was her failure to contest South Carolina.  She'd won New Hampshire, then Nevada, but rather than go to South Carolina and fight Obama there, too, she skipped it.

It wouldn't have been easy for her to win, but she might have; she beat the odds in both New Hampshire and Nevada.  In any case, she would have narrowed Obama's margin of victory, which would have dulled his momentum going into Super Tuesday - and more importantly, she would have been able to improve her tarnished image among black voters.

But she didn't, and I think it was a fateful decision.  Since then, she's done it again and again, and that's why she's in second place.  She ceded too much to Obama.

I don't like her message, and I think the status of her campaign undermines it - if she has so much experience, why is she losing to a rookie? - but I don't think that's why she's losing; clearly, it was a winning message in New Hampshire and Nevada, and plenty of voters still find it appealing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hillary&#8217;s only real problem was her failure to contest South Carolina.  She&#8217;d won New Hampshire, then Nevada, but rather than go to South Carolina and fight Obama there, too, she skipped it.</p>
	<p>It wouldn&#8217;t have been easy for her to win, but she might have; she beat the odds in both New Hampshire and Nevada.  In any case, she would have narrowed Obama&#8217;s margin of victory, which would have dulled his momentum going into Super Tuesday - and more importantly, she would have been able to improve her tarnished image among black voters.</p>
	<p>But she didn&#8217;t, and I think it was a fateful decision.  Since then, she&#8217;s done it again and again, and that&#8217;s why she&#8217;s in second place.  She ceded too much to Obama.</p>
	<p>I don&#8217;t like her message, and I think the status of her campaign undermines it - if she has so much experience, why is she losing to a rookie? - but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s why she&#8217;s losing; clearly, it was a winning message in New Hampshire and Nevada, and plenty of voters still find it appealing.
</p>
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		<title>by: napthia9</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492826</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492826</guid>
					<description>Ms Kate-

Pronounced the penultimate candidate by &lt;i&gt;who&lt;/i&gt;? Perhaps you were more in tune to what was going on than I was, but I still don't see how her behavior was somehow different from what any other candidate might have done in her position, or really, from what any candidate ahead in the polls does. Most presidential candidates research their chances before announcing, attempt to stir up a little interest before they announce, and if they know they have strong support in some areas or they suspect the media will present their candidacy as illegitimate in some way, act in a way that discourages anyone from questioning their legitimacy. Which isn't to say that Clinton's run a good campaign- clearly she hasn't- but the inevitability explanation doesn't explain enough for me.

But thanks for calling me a &quot;brainless trollip trying to impress [my] boyfriend!&quot; It's little things like that which make me feel all special and womanly inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ms Kate-</p>
	<p>Pronounced the penultimate candidate by <i>who</i>? Perhaps you were more in tune to what was going on than I was, but I still don&#8217;t see how her behavior was somehow different from what any other candidate might have done in her position, or really, from what any candidate ahead in the polls does. Most presidential candidates research their chances before announcing, attempt to stir up a little interest before they announce, and if they know they have strong support in some areas or they suspect the media will present their candidacy as illegitimate in some way, act in a way that discourages anyone from questioning their legitimacy. Which isn&#8217;t to say that Clinton&#8217;s run a good campaign- clearly she hasn&#8217;t- but the inevitability explanation doesn&#8217;t explain enough for me.</p>
	<p>But thanks for calling me a &#8220;brainless trollip trying to impress [my] boyfriend!&#8221; It&#8217;s little things like that which make me feel all special and womanly inside.
</p>
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		<title>by: Peter, High Sea Lord of the Yellow Rubber Duck</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492820</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492820</guid>
					<description>While not a particular fan of Senator Clinton, I have to agree that I heard far more Republicans talking, and talking very clearly about Hillary as the inevitable nominee - ever since she started running for the Senate seat, and the certain candidate once she started this campaign. If one only listened to the Republican talking heads, Obama didn't show up in the race until, oh, about two weeks ago.

Still, I also have to agree that her campaign has been run as though she felt that the nomination was a given, and an entitlement.

It still grates on me every time she talks about how she speaks about Bill's campaigns and elections, and term of office, as though they were her own. Certainly, she was intimately involved in those campaigns, but to claim that &lt;i&gt;she&lt;/i&gt; has run against stiff opposition, etc. bothers me. Her main claim is that she has experience, but she gets really fuzzy on just whose experience it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>While not a particular fan of Senator Clinton, I have to agree that I heard far more Republicans talking, and talking very clearly about Hillary as the inevitable nominee - ever since she started running for the Senate seat, and the certain candidate once she started this campaign. If one only listened to the Republican talking heads, Obama didn&#8217;t show up in the race until, oh, about two weeks ago.</p>
	<p>Still, I also have to agree that her campaign has been run as though she felt that the nomination was a given, and an entitlement.</p>
	<p>It still grates on me every time she talks about how she speaks about Bill&#8217;s campaigns and elections, and term of office, as though they were her own. Certainly, she was intimately involved in those campaigns, but to claim that <i>she</i> has run against stiff opposition, etc. bothers me. Her main claim is that she has experience, but she gets really fuzzy on just whose experience it is.
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		<title>by: Ms Kate</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492819</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492819</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I didn’t notice Hillary selling herself as the inevitable nominee until I noticed that the media talking about it. &lt;/i&gt;

I think the 27 phone calls and rallies at the local and state level leading up to Feb 5, wherby she was pronounced the penultimate candidate ready for her close-up - unless you were a brainless trollip trying to impress your boyfriend - were far louder than media around here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I didn’t notice Hillary selling herself as the inevitable nominee until I noticed that the media talking about it. </i></p>
	<p>I think the 27 phone calls and rallies at the local and state level leading up to Feb 5, wherby she was pronounced the penultimate candidate ready for her close-up - unless you were a brainless trollip trying to impress your boyfriend - were far louder than media around here.
</p>
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		<title>by: napthia9</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492817</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/20/hillary-clintons-real-problem/#comment-492817</guid>
					<description>I'm a little concerned that the title of this post is &quot;Clinton's real problem.&quot; Does that imply that any other problems aren't real? Or that they're less important? As previous commentators have reiterated, a lot of the sexist drivel surrounding politics and the media is why only women like Hillary get the national recognition and attention necessary for a serious presidential run. So I guess when you &quot;argue that gender may play less of a role in this race because of the broad demographic voting patterns we are seeing here,&quot; I guess I'd like to know what races you're comparing them to.

Also, can we move this away from the &quot;wagging finger&quot; analysis? Because like JohnL, I didn't notice Hillary selling herself as the inevitable nominee until I noticed that the media talking about it. Before that, I heard a lot of pundits saying the Hillary needed to sell herself/was going to sell herself as &quot;more of the same&quot; good times from Bill's time as president and that she'd have a hard time and probably lose to McCain. I'm sure she can be arrogant and cocky, but then, aren't all presidential candidates? I'm just not so sure that she or her campaign were trying to steamroller over everyone with the &quot;I'm going to win anyway, because I'm owed it&quot; truck- or that their actions are solely responsible for that meme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m a little concerned that the title of this post is &#8220;Clinton&#8217;s real problem.&#8221; Does that imply that any other problems aren&#8217;t real? Or that they&#8217;re less important? As previous commentators have reiterated, a lot of the sexist drivel surrounding politics and the media is why only women like Hillary get the national recognition and attention necessary for a serious presidential run. So I guess when you &#8220;argue that gender may play less of a role in this race because of the broad demographic voting patterns we are seeing here,&#8221; I guess I&#8217;d like to know what races you&#8217;re comparing them to.</p>
	<p>Also, can we move this away from the &#8220;wagging finger&#8221; analysis? Because like JohnL, I didn&#8217;t notice Hillary selling herself as the inevitable nominee until I noticed that the media talking about it. Before that, I heard a lot of pundits saying the Hillary needed to sell herself/was going to sell herself as &#8220;more of the same&#8221; good times from Bill&#8217;s time as president and that she&#8217;d have a hard time and probably lose to McCain. I&#8217;m sure she can be arrogant and cocky, but then, aren&#8217;t all presidential candidates? I&#8217;m just not so sure that she or her campaign were trying to steamroller over everyone with the &#8220;I&#8217;m going to win anyway, because I&#8217;m owed it&#8221; truck- or that their actions are solely responsible for that meme.
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