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	<title>Comments on: Your massive credit card debt means you&#8217;re doing great!</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: inge</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490545</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490545</guid>
					<description>LS, what you describe seems to be a feature, not a bug. The interest you have to pay on credits you do not need is a hidden fee on the one credit you do need, payable years in advance. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>LS, what you describe seems to be a feature, not a bug. The interest you have to pay on credits you do not need is a hidden fee on the one credit you do need, payable years in advance.
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		<title>by: La Lubu</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490522</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490522</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I wonder if De Long or someone with some credits in economics can assure us that “let them eat debt” and “sure! hawking your life savings is really just like income” are NOT the mainstream definitions for prosperity used by sane economists.&lt;/i&gt;

And don't forget the reverse mortgage, people! Considering that so much of our national economic policy relys on the assumption of inherited wealth (read: &quot;The Hidden Cost of Being African-American&quot;), it's worse than what you think, and it's been going on for quite awhile. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I wonder if De Long or someone with some credits in economics can assure us that “let them eat debt” and “sure! hawking your life savings is really just like income” are NOT the mainstream definitions for prosperity used by sane economists.</i></p>
	<p>And don&#8217;t forget the reverse mortgage, people! Considering that so much of our national economic policy relys on the assumption of inherited wealth (read: &#8220;The Hidden Cost of Being African-American&#8221;), it&#8217;s worse than what you think, and it&#8217;s been going on for quite awhile.
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		<title>by: gordo</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490509</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490509</guid>
					<description>Samantha--

From what I've observed, your situation is pretty common for people at the low end of the income scale. I have a friend who also made less than $10,000, and she had three TVs until recently. All had been gifts, and one was broken and another had a badly fading picture.

I think that the main trouble with this NYT article is the failure to distinguish between low income people who are big consumers, which would include retirees spending down their savings and people spending insurance or inheritance windfalls, and low income earners who consume relatively little. By focusing on the first group, the authors are able to come to the conclusion that real poverty is almost unheard of in the US.

And by ignoring nonmaterial concerns, like the stress that comes from knowing that you might get evicted if you can't find someone to lend you money, or that you're one catastrophic illness away from being in debt for the rest of your life, the authors can conclude that being poor isn't so bad after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Samantha&#8211;</p>
	<p>From what I&#8217;ve observed, your situation is pretty common for people at the low end of the income scale. I have a friend who also made less than $10,000, and she had three TVs until recently. All had been gifts, and one was broken and another had a badly fading picture.</p>
	<p>I think that the main trouble with this NYT article is the failure to distinguish between low income people who are big consumers, which would include retirees spending down their savings and people spending insurance or inheritance windfalls, and low income earners who consume relatively little. By focusing on the first group, the authors are able to come to the conclusion that real poverty is almost unheard of in the US.</p>
	<p>And by ignoring nonmaterial concerns, like the stress that comes from knowing that you might get evicted if you can&#8217;t find someone to lend you money, or that you&#8217;re one catastrophic illness away from being in debt for the rest of your life, the authors can conclude that being poor isn&#8217;t so bad after all.
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		<title>by: mythago</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490508</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490508</guid>
					<description>&quot;Probably correct&quot;? Either they're correct or they're not, Tony. If you think they're right, why not say so? Or is it just that you assume anyone who is &quot;wealth-friendly,&quot; whatever the hell *that* means, must be right because you like having money, too?

(For the record, I'm now in the ridiculously tiny percentage of people with high incomes and I like having money. I just don't feel that requires me to crap on poor people in the process.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Probably correct&#8221;? Either they&#8217;re correct or they&#8217;re not, Tony. If you think they&#8217;re right, why not say so? Or is it just that you assume anyone who is &#8220;wealth-friendly,&#8221; whatever the hell *that* means, must be right because you like having money, too?</p>
	<p>(For the record, I&#8217;m now in the ridiculously tiny percentage of people with high incomes and I like having money. I just don&#8217;t feel that requires me to crap on poor people in the process.)
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		<title>by: Samantha Vimes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490491</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490491</guid>
					<description>I'm in the bottom sector of the economy. My only income is art sales and Allan's loan commissions-- and with the real estate sector tanked just as Allan finally found a good market niche, we've made less than $10,000 between us for several years running. Health issues have limited our ability to do &quot;day jobs&quot;, the fight for disability payments is something I postponed all too long, and we've spent nearly all our retirement account money, paying the tax penalty for doing so too early. 

I have a TV. Up until December, our television was older than I was. Then grandma moved to a smaller place, and my parents gave me her old and now too big 20&quot; TV. It is not new enough for digital. It's the biggest TV I've ever had. My DVD came from friends who got it free with a purchase they needed to make. 

In a few months, the health issues may be under control. We might have 2 jobs each and build up our savings again, so the one valid point in the article is that poverty might not be permanent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m in the bottom sector of the economy. My only income is art sales and Allan&#8217;s loan commissions&#8211; and with the real estate sector tanked just as Allan finally found a good market niche, we&#8217;ve made less than $10,000 between us for several years running. Health issues have limited our ability to do &#8220;day jobs&#8221;, the fight for disability payments is something I postponed all too long, and we&#8217;ve spent nearly all our retirement account money, paying the tax penalty for doing so too early. </p>
	<p>I have a TV. Up until December, our television was older than I was. Then grandma moved to a smaller place, and my parents gave me her old and now too big 20&#8243; TV. It is not new enough for digital. It&#8217;s the biggest TV I&#8217;ve ever had. My DVD came from friends who got it free with a purchase they needed to make. </p>
	<p>In a few months, the health issues may be under control. We might have 2 jobs each and build up our savings again, so the one valid point in the article is that poverty might not be permanent.
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		<title>by: MH</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490472</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490472</guid>
					<description>Oh and my computer has been serving me faithfully, with only minor upgrades, since 2001. Best money I ever spent.

I don't own a television, DVD player, or VCR. Computer takes care of all that for me. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh and my computer has been serving me faithfully, with only minor upgrades, since 2001. Best money I ever spent.</p>
	<p>I don&#8217;t own a television, DVD player, or VCR. Computer takes care of all that for me.
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		<title>by: MH</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490467</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490467</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, another reason this index is so skewed is that things like tvs, stereo equipment, and telephone sets (and even, to some extent, computers and cell phones) have been around long enough for them to be scroungeable. Don’t tell me nobody here has ever bummed a tv off a relative who got a new one, or found a perfectly good small appliance or piece of furniture at the curb.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Word to that! Looking around my apartment, here's what I see:

-Shelves (2), got from a friend who was tossing them

-beige couch, got from stepmother when she combined houses with my dad

-two ottomans that go with the beige couch.

-brown couch (OH NOES THEY DON'T MATCH) that we had when I was growing up. It's been bounced back and forth between my mom's, my uncle's and now it's mine.

-computer table. I don't know WHERE this one came from - I think my mom picked it up for like $5 when her old company got bought out and they were cleaning inventory.

-computer chair, a birthday gift from my father. 

-low, long table (1 ft high), also hand-me-down of unknown origin

-a nifty little endtable I found by the dumpster one day. It's perfectly good, I don't know why someone was throwing it out. I even smelled it, just to be safe (had to get it away from the dumpster first for accurate reading)!

-a chair found at same dumpster.

-blue cushy chair I manhandled for a few blocks on bulky pick-up day (I &lt;b&gt;love&lt;/b&gt; bulky pick-up day)

-minifridge from college, currently used only as a lamp stand. The lamp was another &quot;had it growing up&quot; item.

-folding table with two chairs. Gift from mother. Probably $25 at Target or somewhere.

-mattress + box spring, gift from former roommate when he bought a humongous king-sized bed. Prior to that I was on a small twin mattress, on the floor, with a foam pad on top (pretty undersized when you're well over six feet tall)

So with the exception of the minifridge and computer chair, I don't think I own a single piece of furniture that WASN'T either dumpster-retrieved, a hand-me-down, or found at a garage sale/clearance sale.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Also, another reason this index is so skewed is that things like tvs, stereo equipment, and telephone sets (and even, to some extent, computers and cell phones) have been around long enough for them to be scroungeable. Don’t tell me nobody here has ever bummed a tv off a relative who got a new one, or found a perfectly good small appliance or piece of furniture at the curb.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Word to that! Looking around my apartment, here&#8217;s what I see:</p>
	<p>-Shelves (2), got from a friend who was tossing them</p>
	<p>-beige couch, got from stepmother when she combined houses with my dad</p>
	<p>-two ottomans that go with the beige couch.</p>
	<p>-brown couch (OH NOES THEY DON&#8217;T MATCH) that we had when I was growing up. It&#8217;s been bounced back and forth between my mom&#8217;s, my uncle&#8217;s and now it&#8217;s mine.</p>
	<p>-computer table. I don&#8217;t know WHERE this one came from - I think my mom picked it up for like $5 when her old company got bought out and they were cleaning inventory.</p>
	<p>-computer chair, a birthday gift from my father. </p>
	<p>-low, long table (1 ft high), also hand-me-down of unknown origin</p>
	<p>-a nifty little endtable I found by the dumpster one day. It&#8217;s perfectly good, I don&#8217;t know why someone was throwing it out. I even smelled it, just to be safe (had to get it away from the dumpster first for accurate reading)!</p>
	<p>-a chair found at same dumpster.</p>
	<p>-blue cushy chair I manhandled for a few blocks on bulky pick-up day (I <b>love</b> bulky pick-up day)</p>
	<p>-minifridge from college, currently used only as a lamp stand. The lamp was another &#8220;had it growing up&#8221; item.</p>
	<p>-folding table with two chairs. Gift from mother. Probably $25 at Target or somewhere.</p>
	<p>-mattress + box spring, gift from former roommate when he bought a humongous king-sized bed. Prior to that I was on a small twin mattress, on the floor, with a foam pad on top (pretty undersized when you&#8217;re well over six feet tall)</p>
	<p>So with the exception of the minifridge and computer chair, I don&#8217;t think I own a single piece of furniture that WASN&#8217;T either dumpster-retrieved, a hand-me-down, or found at a garage sale/clearance sale.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mercurial Georgia</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490457</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490457</guid>
					<description>People who vote for neo-cons when they themselves are poor;
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ferengi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>People who vote for neo-cons when they themselves are poor;<br />
<a href='http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ferengi' rel='nofollow'>http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ferengi</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Mold</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490455</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490455</guid>
					<description>Oh for the good old days when the poor were desparate and sold their daughters cheaply.  When the wage slaves toiled for low, low rates for 10 hours a day.  When people took any job, even being my servant, to keep the wolf away. 

Now these lower orders want health care, vacations, lunch breaks, and pensions.  Isn't it enough for them to know that they are serving the gloriousness that is me?

Next thing you know, they'll want to eat bread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh for the good old days when the poor were desparate and sold their daughters cheaply.  When the wage slaves toiled for low, low rates for 10 hours a day.  When people took any job, even being my servant, to keep the wolf away. </p>
	<p>Now these lower orders want health care, vacations, lunch breaks, and pensions.  Isn&#8217;t it enough for them to know that they are serving the gloriousness that is me?</p>
	<p>Next thing you know, they&#8217;ll want to eat bread.
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		<title>by: greensmile</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490444</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/12/your-massive-credit-card-debt-means-youre-doing-great/#comment-490444</guid>
					<description>Where was Krugman?  Where was Rich?  If this goes unanswered, my esteem for the gray lady will be much damaged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Where was Krugman?  Where was Rich?  If this goes unanswered, my esteem for the gray lady will be much damaged.
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