Dontcha wish your girlfriend would settle like me?
Thanks to reader Michelle for sending me this beautiful horror show of an article about the importance of settling (for women, of course). It reads exactly like one of those women who got an abortion and regrets it and wants to deny you that choice. That level of delusion about how sure you are that the path not taken was the superior one.
To the outside world, of course, we still call ourselves feminists and insist — vehemently, even — that we’re independent and self-sufficient and don’t believe in any of that damsel-in-distress stuff, but in reality, we aren’t fish who can do without a bicycle, we’re women who want a traditional family. And despite growing up in an era when the centuries-old mantra to get married young was finally (and, it seemed, refreshingly) replaced by encouragement to postpone that milestone in pursuit of high ideals (education! career! but also true love!), every woman I know — no matter how successful and ambitious, how financially and emotionally secure — feels panic, occasionally coupled with desperation, if she hits 30 and finds herself unmarried.
Oh, I know — I’m guessing there are single 30-year-old women reading this right now who will be writing letters to say that the women I know aren’t widely representative, that I’ve been co-opted by the cult of the feminist backlash, and basically, that I have no idea what I’m talking about.
Thanks for doing my work for me! In exchange, I’ll be generous enough to point out that my lack of desperation to get married and have kids has a lot to do with a general unwillingness to get married and have kids. Some people are allergic to cat hair. I’m allergic to strollers. Tragic, I know.
Whether you acknowledge it or not, there’s good reason to worry. By the time 35th-birthday-brunch celebrations roll around for still-single women, serious, irreversible life issues masquerading as “jokes” creep into public conversation: Well, I don’t feel old, but my eggs sure do! or Maybe this year I’ll marry Todd. I’m not getting any younger! The birthday girl smiles a bit too widely as she delivers these lines, and everyone laughs a little too hard for a little too long, not because we find these sentiments funny, but because we’re awkwardly acknowledging how unfunny they are. At their core, they pose one of the most complicated, painful, and pervasive dilemmas many single women are forced to grapple with nowadays: Is it better to be alone, or to settle?
Here’s a fun idea: Let’s ask someone who settled! After all, they probably did so after a period of being alone, so they have full information. True, you’d have to find someone willing to say, on paper, “I hate having to touch my husband’s cock, I often want to stab my ears out with a fork to listen to him ramble on, but I put up with him because you have to pay a nanny to help you out, but a husband actually brings in income.” It could be used against you in the divorce proceedings and all that.
So we’re going to have to settle (See what I did there?) for a woman who’s never been married, and certainly never to someone she doesn’t really love, tell us how great she imagines a loveless marriage probably is.
My advice is this: Settle! That’s right. Don’t worry about passion or intense connection. Don’t nix a guy based on his annoying habit of yelling “Bravo!” in movie theaters. Overlook his halitosis or abysmal sense of aesthetics. Because if you want to have the infrastructure in place to have a family, settling is the way to go. Based on my observations, in fact, settling will probably make you happier in the long run, since many of those who marry with great expectations become more disillusioned with each passing year.
Translation: There’s no time like the present to start on that life of quiet desperation!
Believe it or not, it gets worse from here on out.
Even situation comedies, starting in the 1970s with The Mary Tyler Moore Show and going all the way to Friends, feature endearing single women
What’s with the moral scolds and their love of treating sitcoms like reality? Sitcom sociology.
As the only single woman in my son’s mommy-and-me group, I used to listen each week to a litany of unrelenting complaints about people’s husbands and feel pretty good about my decision to hold out for the right guy, only to realize that these women wouldn’t trade places with me for a second, no matter how dull their marriages might be or how desperately they might long for a different husband. They, like me, would rather feel alone in a marriage than actually be alone, because they, like me, realize that marriage ultimately isn’t about cosmic connection — it’s about how having a teammate, even if he’s not the love of your life, is better than not having one at all.
What kind of person listens to others complain non-stop and walks away thinking, “Man, I want some of that!” That’s an extreme case of fitting the evidence to the theory. Her desperation to believe that any man is better than no man makes me wonder if she’d envy someone going through an acrimonious divorce. “At least she’s married until the lawyers finally hammer it out!”
The couples my friend and I saw at the park that summer were enviable but not because they seemed so in love — they were enviable because the husbands played with the kids for 20 minutes so their wives could eat lunch. In practice, my married friends with kids don’t spend that much time with their husbands anyway (between work and child care), and in many cases, their biggest complaint seems to be that they never see each other.
Her entire argument boils down to: Husbands—cheaper than nannies. Except you don’t have to fuck your nanny on occasion to keep her from being suspicious about your motivations.
She then longs for the relationship that the main characters on “Will and Grace” have, and then goes that extra, jaw-dropping mile.
“I just want someone who’s willing to be in the trenches with me,” my single friend Jennifer told me, “and I never thought of marriage that way before.” Two of Jennifer’s friends married men who Jennifer believes aren’t even straight, and while Jennifer wouldn’t have made that choice a few years back, she wonders whether she might be capable of it in the future. “Maybe they understood something that I didn’t,” she said.
At this point, you realize the entire article is reactionary bullshit the author herself doesn’t believe. How do I know? If she really thinks that being married to a closeted gay man who exchanges housework for her willingness to pretend she doesn’t know what he does on weekend nights, then she would go husband-hunting at her local ex-gay meeting. If you want to be a beard, then there’s an easy, quick, no-nonsense solution for you. I don’t see how it couldn’t work.
My long-married friend Renée offered this dating advice to me in an e-mail: “I would say even if he’s not the love of your life, make sure he’s someone you respect intellectually, makes you laugh, appreciates you … I bet there are plenty of these men in the older, overweight, and bald category (which they all eventually become anyway).”
I tried to imagine an article on a mainstream website telling men to seek out older, overweight, hairy women rather than go alone. It was tough, but sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.*
Choosing to spend your life with a guy who doesn’t delight in the small things in life might be considered settling at 30, but not at 35. By 40, if you get a cold shiver down your spine at the thought of embracing a certain guy, but you enjoy his company more than anyone else’s, is that settling or making an adult compromise?
Yes, she recommended marrying someone whose touch grosses you out before you go it alone. Just for the health of your internal body organs that don’t do well under stress, I would not recommend this. It’s like being a very badly paid whore that only has one john.
I’ll leave you with this tidbit of rationalization that shows how little she’s thinking this through:
Even women who settle but end up divorced might be in a better position than those of us who became mothers on our own, because many ex-wives get both child-support payments and a free night off when the kids go to Dad’s house for a sleepover.
I predicted it at the beginning of this. I suggest she tell someone going through a divorce how lucky they are to have had this chance and see how well her “woe is me” song where everyone who has had the ring ever is happier than pitiful single her goes over.
*Yes, I’m stealing that. Your turn to guess where.
It was tough, but sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.*
The White Queen, Alice Through the Looking Glass.
Did it occur to the author to ask the other women if they’d trade places with her? I’d be willing to bet that at least one or two would prefer single parenthood to settling, especially if their husbands turn out to be a source of extra work rather than help.
Holy crap! I can’t believe you didn’t quote this– “Those of us who choose not to settle in hopes of finding a soul mate later are almost like teenagers who believe they’re invulnerable to dying in a drunk-driving accident.” But I guess you can’t just quote the whole damn cringe-fest.
If this was satirizing the “you must marry any jerk because you don’t want to be alone!” thought it would be exactly the same.
Jesus. Even before you get to the question of “What the hell is wrong with her?”, you wonder if she realizes how horribly unethical it is to marry someone with the intention of tolerating them in exchange for companionship. If they’re not on the same page as you are–if they think you love them and are there because you want to be with them, personally and specifically–that’s a really horrible thing to do to someone.
Also, sanctity of marriage, my ass.
Damn. That is sad.
Mind, I have no problem with women or men lamenting their singleness - hell, people get lonely. But actually advocating that you marry a closeted gay man or someone whose touch makes you feel disgusting or someone who isn’t compatible with you is another story. And while we’re at it, won’t someone please think of the children TM? In all seriousness, that would be a novel way of fucking up your child but good - giving them a model of marriage as a loveless, bloodless business arrangement.
Now, I do think it’s good advice to both men and women to look past superficial things, and choose someone who shares your values, is intelligent and compassionate, and whose company you enjoy. But that seems to me like the opposite of settling.
you wonder if she realizes how horribly unethical it is to marry someone with the intention of tolerating them in exchange for companionship
As usual, the reactionary forces insult men and women alike - they just insult women a little more directly.
Amanda, I read that article in The Atlantic last night and *boggled*. I was hoping you would comment on it. I actually thought that “I wonder what Pandagon would make of this.” I think there was a kernel of truth in the article–marriage isn’t all romance and flowers and passion, especially after kids–but it reeked of desperation and self-delusion.
Yet another article about how women can’t “have it all”.
why does the media love this stories so much? It’s almost as if they were saying “YOU BIT MORE THAN YOU COULD CHEW! NOW SUFFER! HAR HAR HAR!!!”
I blame the PATRIARCHY! (do I miss that blog)
Boy, I’ve gotta tell you that as a man, I sure hope to find the woman who is repulsed by me but will marry me anyway, in hopes we will one day get divorced so she can get literally hundreds of dollars a month in child support from me. Isn’t that what love is all about?
The weirdest part for me was this:
I would say even if he’s not the love of your life, make sure he’s someone you respect intellectually, makes you laugh, appreciates you … I bet there are plenty of these men in the older, overweight, and bald category (which they all eventually become anyway).
In general the great loves of my life have been men that I respect intellectually, make me laugh, appreciate and respect me. They have also been sometimes overweight, sometimes bald, sometimes older. I don’t consider this “settling.” I consider this knowing what I like and going for it. Plus I really do think bald is beautiful. Seriously isn’t that sort of shallow and icky to think that a person is overweight so therefore you can’t be sexually attracted to him/her.
You know they’re only being hypothetical when they say “older, overweight, and bald.” Those who’ve actually lived the dream would not fail to add “and snores like a motherfucker.”
If the author if this piece isn’t a man, she’s at least an MRA. The rest of the article is really a pre-amble to the line about how being divorced makes a woman financially and socially “better off” than if she stayed single. Nobody but MRAs buy the line that child support is the ticket to the big life.
Lance Mannion also had a great response to this article on his blog: http://lancemannion.typepad.com/lance_mannion/2008/02/making-the-worl.html
I think she makes this assumption that if you settle for a loveless marriage, you’ll stay *exactly* the same person that you are now, but with a built-in babysitter/handyman/ dinner companion sleeping next to you. Uh no: As Amanda points out, the emotional and mental stress and turmoil will break you down.
And newsflash: women have tried this settling strategy for centuries, and there’s a reason why it’s not so much in vogue now.
My god. That was pretty fucking jaw-dropping. I kept thinking “It can’t get worse” . . . and then it always did.
The problem is that she is simply fucked-up - in so many ways that it’s hard to keep track. Marry a man you don’t like to be with? Marry a man you can’t stand to touch? Marry a man you know is gay? Marry the wrong man because being divorced is better than not marrying at all? There’s a lifetime of therapy waiting there.
But for all that, one thing kept leaping out at me: the number of times she justified “settling” because she can’t find “true love”. It just seems to me she grew up with a very unrealistic notion of what love is. She repeats several times that one of the big surprises of marriage is that you have to live with the person you married, and a lot of it involves mundane daily activities. Star-struck teens may overlook that, but it appears she actually didn’t realize that until well into her 30s at least - and that’s what she means by “settling”: embracing a life that isn’t “Queen for a Day”, but involves actually . . . having a real life, and sharing it with someone. She still seems to think real love brings you a fantasy lifetime of perpetual ecstasy with nothing in it that doesn’t sparkle - and she’s so bummed at not finding that that she figures she may as well settle for anything else at all.
If she could just grow up a bit, it might be a lot easier to dump all that self-loathing misogyny - and low-expectations misandry as well - and have an adult relationship that really did involve love, mutual respect, and self-actualization.
Ew.
My god. That was pretty fucking jaw-dropping. I kept thinking “It can’t get worse” . . . and then it always did.
The problem is that she is simply fucked-up - in so many ways that it’s hard to keep track. Marry a man you don’t like to be with? Marry a man you can’t stand to touch? Marry a man you know is gay? Marry the wrong man because being divorced is better than not marrying at all? There’s a lifetime of therapy waiting there.
But for all that, one thing kept leaping out at me: the number of times she justified “settling” because she can’t find “true love”. It just seems to me she grew up with a very unrealistic notion of what love is. She repeats several times that one of the big surprises of marriage is that you have to live with the person you married, and a lot of it involves mundane daily activities. Star-struck teens may overlook that, but it appears she actually didn’t realize that until well into her 30s at least - and that’s what she means by “settling”: embracing a life that isn’t “Queen for a Day”, but involves actually . . . having a real life, and sharing it with someone. She still seems to think real love brings you a fantasy lifetime of perpetual ecstasy with nothing in it that doesn’t sparkle - and she’s so bummed at not finding that that she figures she may as well settle for anything else at all.
If she could just grow up a bit, it might be a lot easier to dump all that self-loathing misogyny - and low-expectations misandry as well - and have an adult relationship that really did involve love, mutual respect, and self-actualization.
My god. That was pretty fucking jaw-dropping. I kept thinking “It can’t get worse” . . . and then it always did.
The problem is that she is simply fucked-up - in so many ways that it’s hard to keep track. Marry a man you don’t like to be with? Marry a man you can’t stand to touch? Marry a man you know is gay? Marry the wrong man because being divorced is better than not marrying at all? There’s a lifetime of therapy waiting there.
But for all that, one thing kept leaping out at me: the number of times she justified “settling” because she can’t find “true love”. It just seems to me she grew up with a very unrealistic notion of what love is. She repeats several times that one of the big surprises of marriage is that you have to live with the person you married, and a lot of it involves mundane daily activities. Star-struck teens may overlook that, but it appears she actually didn’t realize that until well into her 30s at least - and that’s what she means by “settling”: embracing a life that isn’t “Queen for a Day”, but involves actually . . . having a real life, and sharing it with someone. She still seems to think real love brings you a fantasy lifetime of perpetual ecstasy with nothing in it that doesn’t sparkle - and she’s so bummed at not finding that that she figures she may as well settle for anything else at all.
If she could just grow up a bit, it might be a lot easier to dump all that self-loathing misogyny - and low-expectations misandry as well - and have an adult relationship that really did involve love, mutual respect, and self-actualization.
Another case of “grass is greener” advice. I feel sorry for these authors who are so convinced that when they don’t like the consequences of the choices they’ve made in life they now have the authority to mix up absurd arguments in favor of why no person should ever make the same choice they did. They pull the “what women really want…” line as contrary to whatever common sense and self-respect would counsel, like feminists have been big meanies, trying to brainwash women into thinking independence means never wanting love and companionship. It’s a cornucopia of straw men and shitty reading.
If you’re so lonely that you’d consider ANYBODY better than nobody, going through divorce better than being single, you should be getting advice (like, from a counselor) - not giving it.
I was waiting for a quote like “Isn’t getting hit occasionally a small price to pay for not being alone? I have long envied battered wives because at least they’ve got someone to share their lives with.” I don’t suppose the author thought to include the natural progression of her premise?
MizDarwin, I think that every line in this was so quotable. I had to pare it down for sanity’s sake. You can only get the full flavor of self-loathing and pathos by reading it yourself.
The flowers and chocolate thing bores me, but damn, you gotta like fucking someone.
My god. That was pretty fucking jaw-dropping. I kept thinking “It can’t get worse” . . . and then it always did.
The problem is that she is simply fucked-up - in so many ways that it’s hard to keep track. Marry a man you don’t like to be with? Marry a man you can’t stand to touch? Marry a man you know is gay? Marry the wrong man because being divorced is better than not marrying at all? There’s a lifetime of therapy waiting there.
But for all that, one thing kept leaping out at me: the number of times she justified “settling” because she can’t find “true love”. It just seems to me she grew up with a very unrealistic notion of what love is. She repeats several times that one of the big surprises of marriage is that you have to live with the person you married, and a lot of it involves mundane daily activities. Star-struck teens may overlook that, but it appears she actually didn’t realize that until well into her 30s at least - and that’s what she means by “settling”: embracing a life that isn’t “Queen for a Day”, but involves actually . . . having a real life, and sharing it with someone. She still seems to think real love brings you a fantasy lifetime of perpetual ecstasy with nothing in it that doesn’t sparkle - and she’s so bummed at not finding that that she figures she may as well settle for anything else at all.
If she could just grow up a bit, it might be a lot easier to dump all that self-loathing misogyny - and low-expectations misandry as well - and have an adult relationship that really did involve love, mutual respect, and self-actualization.
OK, older mommy rant coming.
35 is NOT old. At 35, your chances of having a genetic defect in a fetus are EQUAL to the chances of an amniocentesis causing a spontaneous abortion. As it would be unethical to risk terminating a ‘normal’ fetus just to make sure it was normal, amniocentesis–a very safe test–aren’t recommended until the risk of discovery = risk of miscarriage.
I had a baby at 39, so I’m up on all the aged, high risk pregnancy BS. You know what my chances of ANY genetic problem were? LESS THAN 2% Chances of Down Syndrome were even lower.
Does that sound like a risk you’d be willing to take? 98% chance of healthy baby?
Of course NOT! You need to have your babies before you’re 24!!!11!!
That article is all sorts of wrong, but I’m slamming the fucking meme that it’s dangerous to have babies after 30.
I think if you have trouble conceving in your 30s, you would have had trouble in your 20s (barring endometriosis, which is a progressive disease).
So fuck everyone who tries to tell young women that they have to settle young so they can have healthy babies.
Ok, /rant. Do you think she just needs psychiatric help or does she loathe herself so much that she cant imagine happiness?
35 better not be old. I’m 30 and feel like I’m barely out of adolescence.
spiritrover you owe me a new keyboard.And for that snorer in your life–check out a CPAP. My hubby got it, and even though he looks like Darth Vader, it’s so quiet in comparison to the snoring! Plus, no more sleep apnea worries.
Someone who “you respect intellectually, makes you laugh, appreciates you” is a good friend, and over time, can become a lover, or even a husband. But if that’s ALL it is, respect yourself enough to NOT marry him. There’s no need to make 2 or more people miserable in the long run.
You know it’s written by someone with her head up her ass when she repeatedly references multiple TV sit coms to support her theories.
“Aw, gee, reality is nothing like ‘Friends’! Where’s MY Happily Ever After? Guess I should settle for any available penis with a job, then chuck him out like a used Kleenex when I’ve gotten what I want…”
Sad. Is it really so freaking hard to imagine just treating your partner as you would want to be treated- with fairness, respect, love and friendship?
Who is this broad and wow, I rarely if ever recommend that anyone go see a therapist, much less take psychoactive medication, but this is definitely going to be one of those exceptional moments.
This is a pretty silly article.
I think there is a place for people to write articles like this: I had expectations that were too high when I was growing up, I passed up some opportunities I shouldn’t have and now I regret it. It communicates to people that they should be more reasonable in their expectations, maybe even ’settling’. At the same time, people should write articles about how they made a mistake married the wrong person and (thank god) they finally got a divorce.
I don’t know how you measure whether people’s expectations for marriage or the single-life are calibrated properly. Maybe on average too many women do hold out too long to maximize their happiness. Or maybe its the reverse (I’d guess it would be the reverse if it weren’t for the social pressure that comes along with being a single woman as you get older). But short of statistics, people get a sense of these things by hearing about the experiences of others.
Unfortunately, this article is not really helping much.
Well, that was depressing.
It’s pretty clear what this woman wants. She is up front about what she wants out of marriage:
She wants a child and a household and, truth be told, it’s tough to do that alone. Plus, you get the benefit of pooling your resources and exploiting economies of scale. You know what though? A lot of people grew up seeing their parents live their lives as though their marriage was a tense and difficult business partnership and decided that they weren’t interested in running such a business.
However, lots of people come from the perspective that they’d rather forego running that nonprofit business if it means dealing with an unacceptable business partner… that would certainly make me a heck of a lot unhappier than being single.
Thanks, Caren @ 22. Needed to be said. Those lies so easily permeated my brain it was a while before I realized the give-birth-before-you’re-35 shit was propaganda, not actual science.
I am embarrassed for The Atlantic for lending a forum to this author (Lori Gottlieb), as well as to the equally annoying and regressive C. Flanagan.
I’m still stuck on the fact that this woman who is not married somehow feels justified — if not compelled — to tell women to “settle.” Lori’s bio on her website shows that she has been a standup comic and has written for sitcoms, which probably explains a lot, in terms of her references and generally unreal tone.
However, it still doesn’t explain why The Atlantic would give her a voicebox. They used to run articles and essays I actually wanted to read.
WEll, okay, I haven’t read the original article but isn’t it possible she’s writing it from the perspective of a single mom who reallly, really, really wishes she had an extra pair of hands around? I mean, right, it would be better if she were a bit more creative in thinking about where those extra hands might come from — some kind of differently-arranged society, perhaps? Yeah, she’s having trouble thinking past the existing possibilities . But to the extent she’s thinking “husband” is the only option, in a way it is given present social arrangments. If we overhauled society starting tomorrow it still wouldn’t change fast enough to help her — a woman with a small kid and no extended family around (apparently, again, I am guessing not having read the article) nor many institutional frameworks made to help out lone parents.
One answer is Amanda’s — not wanting kids. But what if you do want kids? Even massive social reform legislation wouldn’t kick in any time soon, and kids require SO MUCH EFFORT. I do think that’s a factor in her lament.
WEll, okay, I haven’t read the original article but isn’t it possible she’s writing it from the perspective of a single mom who reallly, really, really wishes she had an extra pair of hands around?
I don’t know; why don’t you read the original article and tell us if it’s likely, instead of playing devil’s advocate?
Doing the reading?!?!?!?!?!? How unfair! That’s never been a requirement of commenting nor playing devil’s advocate before! What’s next, a dress code?
Hoo-weeee! Gottlieb provides a wonderful example of how misery loves company. She’s correct in that women who wish to marry should let go their idealized notion of how a husband should act, but she’s dead wrong in her advice to “settle” for someone who may be utterly unsuitable.
It’s an exceptionally good idea in any relationship, whether it be marriage or not, to accept your partner as he is; to let minor peeves roll off your back instead of grousing over them.
But that isn’t the same as settling for a man merely for the economic stability or the extra pair of hands. Those kinds of relationships, where partners have nothing in common but the desire for greater social respectability, are doomed to fail in the face of catastrophic events. Job loss, illness – any bit instability, and her house will cave in because it was built on a foundation of lies.
I was about to send this to you. Much head-scratching involved. Too bad she didn’t grow up in Japan–the concept of “marriage in order to form an economic unit” has been around for eons. They even have matchmakers! (My secretary got married through the use of one.)
I’ve had the experience of realizing I felt lonelier sleeping in a bed next to a particular someone than sleeping alone. Once you’ve had that, any talk of “settling” just in order to be with someone brings on the chills. Screw that. I’d rather be completely, totally alone rather than go through that experience again.
They, like me, would rather feel alone in a marriage than actually be alone, because they, like me, realize that marriage ultimately isn’t about cosmic connection — it’s about how having a teammate, even if he’s not the love of your life, is better than not having one at all.
Wow. I know everyone is different, but feeling alone in a room full of people is infinitely worse for me than simply being alone.
I guess whatever floats her boat, but to recommend this as a solution? Just wow.
Or, you know, what tzs said.
I married my son’s father in a fit of — something or other — in spite of the fact that we had very little in common. I learned in that relationship, as I have learned in others, that even if you don’t have to have a really strong emotional attachment to a guy, he can still make your life utter hell. We divorced and I was lucky that it did not leave my life or my son’s life in pieces, but that is not usually the case. Most women with kids don’t necessarily like turning their kids over to ex-spouse for days or weeks at a time. This woman is so terribly clueless that I feel sorry for her kid.
Those people can speak for themselves.
I rather walk than risk driving a dangerously mangled car. A commitment to a person is much more serious, I would love to be in love with someone I love. If they aren’t worth loving, or if the attraction isn’t there, I ain’t gonna close my eyes and fake it.
Maybe I am not the best person to comment on this woman’s dilemma because I am only 23 (not yet worried about the ripening of my eggs) but I find her totally baffling. Wow.
Ah, yet another article that posits that I don’t exist. Because, of course, if you haven’t met The One by the time you’re 30, you’re more likely to be killed by a terrorist, blah blah blah.
Met my eventual husband at 31, married at 37. No kids yet, though we may aim to have one when I turn 40, or adopt, or never have them, whatever works out.
I really think one of the most harmful ideas in our culture is this idea that you have a “soulmate” somewhere out there that you’re destined to be with and if you can’t find him/her, you may as well marry for money because there’s no possible way to have a happy and fulfilling relationship without your “soulmate.”
Don’t nix a guy based on his annoying habit of yelling “Bravo!” in movie theaters. Overlook his halitosis
Woman’s insane. I have a one-year limit on overlooking shit like halitosis or being a dick in public. After that, I say brush your damn teeth and stop being such a tool and if it causes problems I am out of there.
I find that brush your damn teeth is usually complied with, stop being a tool is a request considered beyond the pale. I guess they gotta be them.
I don’t think words alone can suffice to describe how dumb and horrifying that article is.
I would just point out how she says in the same paragraph:
“settling is a rampant phenomenon” and then:
“the theme of holding out for true love (whatever that is — look at the divorce rate)”
So settling is rampant, as is the divorce rate, but the fault lies in holding out for true love. oooh-kay!
You know, on some level, I think two platonic-type friends shacking up to raise kids and provide themselves with some domesticity could be a nice idea. However, she seems to be proposing lying about it. Not okay.
Holy Jesus God, you guys weren’t kidding about how every last line is quotable:
She has got to be making shit up; or she’s a terrible mother. Who on earth would saddle their child with a morose, rude, clearly issue-riddled step-parent who has a “strong interest in terrorists”? You have a baby, woman, it’s not just about you anymore. You’re not 25 and childfree anymore, you can’t waste a year or two letting every loser who tugs the right sympathy strings crash in your bed until you get sick of him. That’s a game for the young - you have a duty to hold out for a guy worth settling for, one that won’t send your adult child to therapy in 20 years.
I think she should stop dating entirely until her child, who will likely, from necessity, be more mature than she is by the time it’s 12, can vocalize its opinions on her dates. She clearly needs a second opinion.
PS: Movie he was writing? Was he actually a screenwriter who has written movies that got made in the past, because if no, then we’ve got a whole nother set of reasons why an adult woman should not marry this man.
I subscribe to the Atlantic, and read this last night. It went from bad, to worse, to OMFG terrible, to “ok, the woman is ill—but shit, did they have to publish this tripe?? There are real authors in the world who would give their right arm to be in this magazine–what the fuck?
I could almost hear the thoughts of every man she’s ever dated….“Whew! Daa–aaa—mn! Sure am glad I dodged that bullet!!”
What’s with the moral scolds and their love of treating sitcoms like reality? Sitcom sociology.
I guess now, it’s out of the question to ask if Miranda was right to settle for blue collar Steve Brady, instead of handsome professional Dr. Leeds.
I learned… that even if you don’t have to have a really strong emotional attachment to a guy, he can still make your life utter hell.
Wow. I hope things are better for you now.
Since I am an overweight (slightly - I’m working on it), balding, married man, I was going to say something rude to the author of this lovely article & her friend. But I’ve decided not to. They might think I am worth settling for.
This totally isn’t for reals, is it? I did marry the love of my life, and, even though he’s the best thing in my world, it’s not an endless happy fairytale. I can’t imagine how hard it’d be to be married to somebody you don’t even like or respect, much less love. And I can understand wanting an extra set of hands to take care of the kid, but how likely is it that any of the rude, self-absorbed losers she describes would be an attentive daddy?
I tried to imagine an article on a mainstream website telling men to seek out older, overweight, hairy women rather than go alone.
Haven’t you heard that women become hideously ugly and unlovable after around age 25, whereas men remain gorgeous forever? It’s true. Many fat, bald, middle-aged dateless men have assured me of this fact.
It was tough, but sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.*
I know the original source, but if you were thinking of Dave Sim I will be in awe of you forever.
Someone already wrote this in 1972. It was called Sheila Levine Is Dead And Living In New York. Only that was a lot funnier than this.
The really sad thing is, in my 20s I felt like this author did. I felt like something was wrong with me because I couldn’t “settle.” Everyone else seemed to be coupled, what was I doing wrong? Was I going to have to sit at the kids’ table forever?
So when I was 34, I “settled.” I married the guy who wouldn’t brush his teeth, do the dishes, pick up after himself, or throw away a pizza box before the crusts in it had time to petrify, and who felt that as long as I was willing to “sell out” and do a job I hated to support us both, there was no need for him to look for work that didn’t thrill the crap out of him. I told myself I was the problem for being so bourgeois and uptight. For my trouble, I wound up being 5150ed at Langley Porter after a suicide attempt.
Lady, you cannot imagine the depth of loneliness of being married to someone who is all wrong for you. It’s much, much, much worse than being single, by orders of magnitude. The only way I could have imagined it being worse would have been having a child with this person who was all wrong for me. Maybe if she asked those friends who complained about their spouses, she might find out that her life — unencumbered by having to pick up after not only her children but the Big Kid she sleeps with to boot, in addition to all her other work duties — doesn’t look half bad to some of them.
But I suppose girlfriend’s gonna have to find out the hard way, isn’t she? I had to.
PS: Movie he was writing? Was he actually a screenwriter who has written movies that got made in the past, because if no, then we’ve got a whole nother set of reasons why an adult woman should not marry this man.
She lives in Los Angeles. Every single man she meets, including the pool boy, is working on a screenplay.
Every single man she meets, including the pool boy, is working on a screenplay.
I was going to say that. Women as well. If you live in LA and you’re not an actor, you’re a writer.
To the outside world, of course, we still call ourselves feminists and insist — vehemently, even — that we’re independent and self-sufficient and don’t believe in any of that damsel-in-distress stuff, but in reality, we aren’t fish who can do without a bicycle, we’re women who want a traditional family.
All these years I’ve been calling myself a feminist while simultaneously thriving in my highly-affectionate and interdependent heterosexual relationship.
I didn’t get the newsletter informing me that feminists aren’t allowed to want traditional families. (I also missed the memo explaining why independence and marriage aren’t compatible. Shucks.)
This woman is a turd and the women who pay her to write are double-turds.
I’d be mortified if I was the person someone had “settled” for. No wonder feminists enjoy more fulfilling romantic relationships; we don’t look at schlubby man-boys who bore us to tears and think “Gimme some of that!”
I can’t imagine how hard it’d be to be married to somebody you don’t even like or respect, much less love.
I really want to know who finds it enlightening, amusing, or otherwise worthwhile to include articles in mainstream publications from authors who have absolutely no real-world experience of the subject they’re discussing. I assume they don’t publish woodworking articles written by people who have never picked up a handsaw or movie reviews by people who haven’t seen the movies. I guess when it’s only people’s emotional lives you’re discussing, it doesn’t really matter what the hell advice you give.
/me puts out the Therapy for Hire sign…
It is blatantly obvious to me that you, Lori Gottlieb, watch too much tv.
In particular, you might be watching too much bad tv. Of the dysfunctional family sitcom variety. You know, Married With Children, and modern day variants of the “I got married in a shotgun wedding and I’m not horribly maimed!” variety.
TV isn’t like real life. When you have a wife as lazy as Peggy Bundy, and you’re not much better, the house would look and probably smell like a pigsty, rather than the moderately clean place it is. The family dynamics would feature violence of the physical and emotional variety not present in these tv shows. And so on…
Therefore, the best cure for your condition is to immediately trash the tv, sign up for Survivor: Hell, and bring the Norton’s Anthology of Shakespeare’s Plays along…
That oughta cure what ails ye.
There will be a bill for 5 cents sent to your paypal account, thanks for the prompt payment.
Maybe, like so many other comics, she was just dumb enough to let her material run away with her. In some sense, we all settle — the intensely brilliant yet personable hunk (to your personalized specifications) of the appropriate gender with whom you share many interests, who’s thoroughly independent but always has time for you and your shared offspring doesn’t exist. Therefore none of us is one of those either. So we pick actual human beings to whom we’re seriously attracted, body, mind and soul. Riffing on that could have been funny.
But once Gottlieb stops imagining that her own personal perfectly-adjusted supermodel is right around the corner, she can’t help writing about the kind of “settling” that makes us all kinda sick. (Wow, they play with the kids for 20 minutes while mom has lunch.) Does she think that’s what will sell?
They put something in the water. When I moved out here 15 years ago, I had no intention of even trying to write a screenplay, and now I have an MFA in Screenwriting.
All absolutely true.
as a man, i thought this article was great…
until I figured that by the authors standard, Im STILL unmarryable, because my income isnt even worth marrying and divorcing for for the child support payments.
and i have long and lusterous locks, bitch!
Oh, and it’s twice as bad if she’s thinking about “settling” if she has a kid already. Inflicting a bad relationship on yourself is one thing; inflicting it on a child is another. (My mother did this after separating from my dad. Ouch, ouch, ouch.) Believe me, you will pay through il schnozzole for the 20 minutes he spends looking after your toddler with the multiple wall-rattling fights he’ll have with the kid later on. And you, too, in all likelihood.
I have an idea. Why doesn’t Gottlieb go to the county courthouse and interview women filing restraining orders against their exes, and ask them if they used to feel the way she does?
That article doesn’t make me angry as much as sad. I get the feeling it was written out of loneliness and frustration rather than as a result of some great epiphany. I’ve actually heard of Lori Gottlieb before. She’s written a few books, one of which is a memoir about her struggles with anorexia as a teenager, so she obviously has a history of self-esteem issues.
There’s a difference, too, between being overly picky and refusing to settle. I mean, it’s one thing to think, “Hey, that guy I went on a date with was all right…I wish I hadn’t written him off because of his job/taste in music/clothes/minor physical issue.” But actually considering settling for a closeted gay man or a crazy maybe-screenwriter? Or even a guy you just aren’t attracted to? That’s just very, very sad.
I think she’s also very frustrated at being a single mom, and she does have a point about people tending to gloss over how difficult it is. But is it really worse than staying in a loveless relationship?
Since apparently it’s okay for the author to extrapolate based on personal experiences, I’ll do the same:
I am 41. I didn’t meet my husband until I was 36. Prior to that time, I dated roughly two guys a year from age 14 (you do the math). I got one marriage proposal that I turned down in that time, and was “in talks” with another before I decided to break it off.
My husband is wonderful. He’s funny, cute, kind, intelligent, interested in most of the things I am, we talk for hours, my friends and family love him. I often think back and shake my head at what my life would be like right now if I had “settled.”
Truly, her article was a horror show.
OMG. Did somebody just say this is a HUMOR writer and she is trying to be funny??
The three levels of humor writing for the humor writer:
1. Funny. Success!
2. Trying to be funny but not. Embarrassing for both writer and audience.
3. Trying to be funny but not and also no one can even tell you’re trying to be funny. Not embarrassing but leaves audience with the impression that you are stupid, bipolar, or possibly both.
That article doesn’t make me angry as much as sad. I get the feeling it was written out of loneliness and frustration rather than as a result of some great epiphany. I’ve actually heard of Lori Gottlieb before. She’s written a few books, one of which is a memoir about her struggles with anorexia as a teenager, so she obviously has a history of self-esteem issues.
There’s a difference, too, between being overly picky and refusing to settle. I mean, it’s one thing to think, “Hey, that guy I went on a date with was all right…I wish I hadn’t written him off because of his job/taste in music/clothes/minor physical issue.” But actually considering settling for a closeted gay man or a crazy maybe-screenwriter? Or even a guy you just aren’t attracted to? That’s just very, very sad.
I think she’s also very frustrated at being a single mom, and she does have a point about people tending to gloss over how difficult it is. But is it really worse than staying in a loveless relationship?
If there is anything I would consider worse than settling, it would be being with someone who was settling for me. How absolutely horrible - the stuff of my nightmares.
I hate that the author is from L.A. - For heaven’s sake, there’s a million single people here! Sure, we’re all a little nutty, but we’ve mostly all chosen this wacky dating pool. There’s a lot of great single people here; I meet them all the time.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I need to go work on my screenplay. Or read my boyfriend’s screenplay. Or motivate my screenwriting buddy. Or give notes to my producer friend about the screenplay she’s optioned…
That article doesn’t make me angry as much as sad. I get the feeling it was written out of loneliness and frustration rather than as a result of some great epiphany. I’ve actually heard of Lori Gottlieb before. She’s written a few books, one of which is a memoir about her struggles with anorexia as a teenager, so she obviously has a history of self-esteem issues.
There’s a difference, too, between being overly picky and refusing to settle. I mean, it’s one thing to think, “Hey, that guy I went on a date with was all right…I wish I hadn’t written him off because of his job/taste in music/clothes/minor physical issue.” But actually considering settling for a closeted gay man or a crazy maybe-screenwriter? Or even a guy you just aren’t attracted to? That’s just very, very sad.
I think she’s also very frustrated at being a single mom, and she does have a point about people tending to gloss over how difficult it is. But is it really worse than staying in a loveless relationship?
I have not read the full article yet and am not sure if I want to–hoping it’s some kind of joke/sarcastic.
shaenon–hey, I like the link in your profile…lots of manga and cartoons–I actually live about a mile from Green right now.
What creeps me out about her article is the air of desperation that seethes off of it, to the point where you get the feeling she’d ignore a lot of warning signals simply in order to “be with a man.”
Yeah, there’s being realistic in a good way, which is that relationships aren’t always perfect even when you’re with The One, and that maybe there’s more than one person you can find happiness with in your life. But this….this is just total desperation.
I do understand a bit where she’s coming from. Once you get to a certain age and there doesn’t seem to be someone on the horizon (or even the possibility of one), you can start feeling really, really depressed and start wondering whether you’re looking for too much. On the other hand, there’s a heck of a lot you can do just with really great friendship keeping you uplifted.
Her article however seems to be almost like an extended snit towards the universe: “You didn’t deliver My True Love! So because of that I’m going to have to marry this dork and sit around in a loveless marriage for the rest of my life! Waaah!”
It’s puzzling. I’m sensing an strong perfume of desperation just oozing off such people while they’re trying to convince me that I’m really, really, really just not happy. Really. No really.
I even engaged in a bit of barren womb omphaloskepsis.
:: shrugs ::
Guess I’ll just have to wander off being _not happy_. No really. Just one question. Why can’t I wipe the smile off my face?
Whoops, sorry tzs, I was too busy trying to suppress the urge to jitterbug as I pondered my 38-year-old, unmarried, childless existence and missed your comment about the desperation. Odd, we both got the same vibe. Well, anyhow, back to being _not happy_. No really. It’s just awful. I’m not sure how I’ll go on.
I’m so taken aback, I don’t know where to begin.
Okay…I do actually know that I don’t like sex well enough to fake it for Mr Good Enough.
I’d love to hear from a Pandagoner who has experience inside high-end editorial. Would Gottlieb have e-mailed this piece of tripe to the slush pile, or do you think she pitched it with an inquiry first? What could she have said in the query letter?
Either way, what did the buying editor think the product had to offer? A bogus-controversy shitstorm like what they stirred with their “Dan Quayle was right” article years ago? I know this mag does its business at a loss: if they get a lot of blog talk like ours, do they feel they’re achieving something?
the fact that she seems to think that marrying a plumber = settling says a lot about her.
on behalf of the blue collar side of my family, the ones without college degrees who are nevertheless smart, funny, kind, interesting people - FUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON
Of all of those, being rude to the waiter is definitely the biggest red flag to me.
I’d also like to mention that my handsome HVAC BC journeyman BIL pulled figures just cents from 6 the last three years. (housing), and his bride has her masters in Ed…
Besides the hot monkey love that I hear WAY too much about…they share the love of DIY, 22 years later.
Settling? Please.
Yeah, I don’t see anything inherently crazy about a fiction writer appreciating the dramatic potential of comas and terrorists. Cliched, probably, but not scary. If the guy didn’t blurt out those quotes out of the blue but put them in some kind of context, it’s hardly a red flag.
Her biggest problem (among many) is her all-or-nothing thinking.
Either he’s Mr. Perfect or Mr. Good Enough. Since she can’t get Mr. Perfect, then she will settle for Mr. Good Enough.
One of the most interesting parts of the article I saw is below
So, what’s so wrong about a professional woman dating a plumber?
Plenty has been written about some men not wanting to marry more successful women. However, it goes both ways. Some women don’t want to marry less successful men either. Both men and women have been conditioned to believe that the man should take care of the woman.
The problem is that these old fashioned ideas clash with modern ideas of gender equality. What is sad is how hard these women cling to the idea that they deserve a man to take care of them, even though they are more than capable of taking care of themselves.
If you feel sorry for her, think of all the guys she’s going to date after this article appeared. “I went out with Lori because I liked her and I thought she liked me, but now I find out she just wants me as an unpaid babysitter.” Ouch!
That article doesn’t make me angry as much as sad. I get the feeling it was written out of loneliness and frustration rather than as a result of some great epiphany. I’ve actually heard of Lori Gottlieb before. She’s written a few books, one of which is a memoir about her struggles with anorexia as a teenager, so she obviously has a history of self-esteem issues.
There’s a difference, too, between being overly picky and refusing to settle. I mean, it’s one thing to think, “Hey, that guy I went on a date with was all right…I wish I hadn’t written him off because of his job/taste in music/clothes/minor physical issue.” But actually considering settling for a closeted gay man or a crazy maybe-screenwriter? Or even a guy you just aren’t attracted to? That’s just very, very sad.
I think she’s also very frustrated at being a single mom, and she does have a point about people tending to gloss over how difficult it is. But is it really worse than staying in a loveless relationship?
“Except you don’t have to fuck your nanny on occasion to keep her from being suspicious about your motivations.”
Hey. speak for yourself.
Just kidding.
That article doesn’t make me angry as much as sad. I get the feeling it was written out of loneliness and frustration rather than as a result of some great epiphany. I’ve actually heard of Lori Gottlieb before. She’s written a few books, one of which is a memoir about her struggles with anorexia as a teenager, so she obviously has a history of self-esteem issues.
There’s a difference, too, between being overly picky and refusing to settle. I mean, it’s one thing to think, “Hey, that guy I went on a date with was all right…I wish I hadn’t written him off because of his job/taste in music/clothes/minor physical issue.” But actually considering settling for a closeted gay man or a crazy maybe-screenwriter? Or even a guy you just aren’t attracted to? That’s just very, very sad.
I think she’s also very frustrated at being a single mom, and she does have a point about people tending to gloss over how difficult it is. But is it really worse than staying in a loveless relationship?
That article doesn’t make me angry as much as sad. I get the feeling it was written out of loneliness and frustration rather than as a result of some great epiphany. I’ve actually heard of Lori Gottlieb before. She’s written a few books, one of which is a memoir about her struggles with anorexia as a teenager, so she obviously has a history of self-esteem issues.
There’s a difference, too, between being overly picky and refusing to settle. I mean, it’s one thing to think, “Hey, that guy I went on a date with was all right…I wish I hadn’t written him off because of his job/taste in music/clothes/minor physical issue.” But actually considering settling for a closeted gay man or a crazy maybe-screenwriter? Or even a guy you just aren’t attracted to? That’s just very, very sad.
I think she’s also very frustrated at being a single mom, and she does have a point about people tending to gloss over how difficult it is. But is it really worse than staying in a loveless relationship?
That article doesn’t make me angry as much as sad. I get the feeling it was written out of loneliness and frustration rather than as a result of some great epiphany. I’ve actually heard of Lori Gottlieb before. She’s written a few books, one of which is a memoir about her struggles with anorexia as a teenager, so she obviously has a history of self-esteem issues.
There’s a difference, too, between being overly picky and refusing to settle. I mean, it’s one thing to think, “Hey, that guy I went on a date with was all right…I wish I hadn’t written him off because of his job/taste in music/clothes/minor physical issue.” But actually considering settling for a closeted gay man or a crazy maybe-screenwriter? Or even a guy you just aren’t attracted to? That’s just very, very sad.
I think she’s also very frustrated at being a single mom, and she does have a point about people tending to gloss over how difficult it is. But is it really worse than staying in a loveless relationship?
“Of all of those, being rude to the waiter is definitely the biggest red flag to me.”
I dunno. If I were looking to marry solely because I wanted an extra income and a co-parent and had no real interest in my spouse beyond utility, a major depressive episode would probably cause the relationship to self-destruct spectacularly in rather short order.
Wayward - I thought the same thing. How could you not brag about your boyfriend the Army helicopter nurse? Or park ranger? If you’re going to snark on men who make perfectly comfortable livings doing non-college-required work, why would you pick jobs that are either known for being pretty lucrative (plumber, HVAC) or are glamourous? And this for your backup quote:
Jesus, bitch, think much of yourself? And if there’s one group of people who aren’t well read or have good vocabularies, it’s actors, the illiterate boobs. Hell, the two most literary, well-read men I know are both alcoholics in dead-end jobs.
I can’t add anything more to what’s already been said. I can’t imagine “settling” for someone I don’t like or respect, let alone someone who makes me cringe. What a joyless existence that would be. And, of course, marrying someone who isn’t your ideal fantasy husband shouldn’t be considered settling at all, as long as you make each other happy.
Anyway, this story in the Daily Mail was the perfect antidote for me - newlywed Peggy Mason “settled” for her first husband, and now has finally found true love at the age of 85. I hope I’m as happy as she is 50 years from now.
That entire thing is incredibly sad, and it seems to me she’s not going to be happy no matter what she does. She’ll settle, and then she’ll get the reality of what she’s settled for and either wilt away until she dies or end up divorced and even more bitter than before. Does she really want a life where she has to lie back and think of England with someone who, as pointed out, she wouldn’t normally touch? Would she close her eyes and thank god she’s found someone as she’s holding her breath against his halitosis? I’d much rather sleep alone than have to put up with that bullshit.
As Amanda pointed out, if she’s that desperate then she doesn’t really have the courage of her convictions. All she has to do is go to an ex-gay meeting to find someone, or hell, she’s in L.A. she can head down to Third Street Promenade and pick out any number of homeless men and/or street vendors. They’d be more than willing to trade some hot meals for whatever fantasy she’s got in her head.
And it wasn’t funny at all. I was surprised to find that it should have been.
My personal experience is that when a woman lands a guy *she* likes, but he doesn’t match up to what the world says she should have, it’s not necessarily that she’s trying to convince herself when she argues that her guy is great even though the world thinks he’s teh suck; sometimes it’s about mocking the world.
Me personally, I fell in love with a guy who has really bad eyesight, and looks to many people like some kind of freak. To me he is incredibly hot. So I feel like I got away with something, like I found a copy of “Action Comics #1″ in the bargain bin for 50 cents (you know, the first appearance of Superman, worth like $50,000) and now I’m crowing about it.
As for settling, this chick totally needs to find a platonic female friend who’s divorced with kids, and shack up with *her* in a roommate/share child care duties situation. Because men are trained to suck at giving women emotional support and doing child care tasks. it’s rare to find a man who has escaped the training. The only excuse to put up with a man who will dump most of the child care and housework on you, which is most of them, is that you love him and think he’s hot. If you’re just looking for a helpmeet, and you don’t want sex out of the deal, you are totally better off with a woman, preferably a woman who is also heterosexual and also has kids, so she won’t want something from you you don’t want to give and she and you can trade child care duties. Men in general are *only* useful for love and sex; picking one you don’t really like all that much to live with is like getting a large barky dog who’s emotionally needy when you live in a tiny apartment and don’t really like dogs anyway.
(Yes, there are men who escaped the training in being totally useless to women. They probably already have girlfriends who love them. If you’re settling, you’re settling for the guys no other woman wants, and that’s *not* going to be the ones who are genuinely helpful and supportive of women.)
Of course, we’d be loath to admit it in this day and age, but ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won’t tell you it’s a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment. Most likely, she’ll say that what she really wants is a husband (and, by extension, a child).
sayeth Ms. Gottlieb, and she follows up with this gem:
Oh, I know—I’m guessing there are single 30-year-old women reading this right now who will be writing letters to the editor to say that the women I know aren’t widely representative, that I’ve been co-opted by the cult of the feminist backlash, and basically, that I have no idea what I’m talking about. And all I can say is, if you say you’re not worried, either you’re in denial or you’re lying. In fact, take a good look in the mirror and try to convince yourself that you’re not worried, because you’ll see how silly your face looks when you’re being disingenuous.
How narcissistic can a person possibly be? These quotes translate to: If you don’t feel just like I do, then there’s something wrong with you. The idea that there may be normal, rational people who think and feel differently from her does not appear to ever have crossed her radar screen (to steal a great Molly Ivins line.)
Something else that bothers me: I assume that The Atlantic employs editors. What on earth did this piece look like before editing/ I weep.
“I’m fascinated by comas”
I read that 3 times thinking, “He’s fascinated with commas??”
Now that I’ve read the whole piece, I’ll say: Poorly written satire.
And now, Caren, you owe me a new keyboard.
For those who don’t know, Po Bronson interviewed ol’ Lisa G. in one of his mid-career books. She’s not a man, she’s a real live anorexic with admitted perfectionist tendencies, a really interesting (insert ironic twist in voice) life prior to this point, and un-tremendous self-esteem.
(Sung to the tune of “I’ve Got a Golden Ticket”
from “Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory”)
Marry a man you’re scared to touch
Marry a man you know is gay
‘Cause no longer being a spinsterette
Will chase all your cares away …
‘Cause I got the “Snagged Him” Marriage
(Abuse! Halitosis!)
I got the Partnered Sparkle in my Eye
And I’ll laser my Singles blue tattoo
It said “Get Hitched and/or Die”
(spoken) I’z'e married now, Ma!!
littlem, isn’t the author’s name Lori, not Lisa?
the fact that she seems to think that marrying a plumber = settling says a lot about her.
Indeed. My sister, who is bright and articulate, successful and a former college athlete, married her high school sweetheart, who drives a tow truck. (She waited until her mid-20s to do so.) Anyhow, she was obviously settling, save for the fact that he’s a really decent guy who treats her well, does his part around the house, is a good father to their child, and basically does everything a partner should do. So he has a blue collar job. So he should be ashamed of that? Feh. Life’s too short to worry about what people think of your job, much less what they think of your partner’s. What matters in a partner is if he or she is, well, a partner. My sister’s husband qualifies on that count, and that’s all that matters; there are myriad Yale-educated lawyers who wouldn’t qualify on that level for my sister. I think she chose well.
Okay, so I’m surfing the net and I find, from Jezebel.com, that Gottlieb has a book (and possibly movie0 coming out about her being anorexic at 11. From the Amazon.com review:
[…]Chronically disapproving of her parents’ shallow lifestyle, she challenges their authority and chafes under their constant demands to curb her frank opinions and act more “ladylike.” Feeling as though she has lost control over her rapidly changing world, Lori focuses all her concentration on one subject: dieting. Her life narrows to a single goal–to be …the thinnest eleven year old on the entire planet.” But once she achieves her “stick figure,” Lori really sees herself for the first time in a restaurant bathroom mirror and decides then and there to bring herself back from the brink of starvation.
Wow. It seems she’s had/got other problems besides finding a man and her obsession knows no bounds.
(once again, if anyone else has brought this up, my apologies. I try reading everything but sometimes I miss stuff)
As to 6 impossible things, it’s from Alice in Wonderland, but it still always makes me think of Milliways.
Wow. It must really suck to be her. In the words of Margaret Cho, “Buy her a magazine rack, because she’s got issues.”
So you know where I’m coming from, I’m a 37 year old female, and I have never been married. I almost was once (more like “engaged to be engaged”) but we drifted apart. If I had married that man, we would surely be divorced by now. The way it happened was much better. Ideal, even, if a breakup can be called that. He was attractive. He was a good man. He still is. Unfortunately, in the end, we were not right for each other.
After many years of (mostly) unattached singlehood, I know how difficult independence can be. I understand why some people would rather pair off with ANYONE than be alone. Nevertheless, hitching yourself to a rude man who physically repulses you is not “settling.” It is emotional suicide. Being lonely is awful, but being lonely when you aren’t actually alone is worse. If that is what I have to do to be with someone (and I seriously doubt that’s the case), then I will certainly remain single.
Furthermore, I have grown content with my own company over the years. Yes, I would like to have a significant other. There are things I miss about having one. If I find someone compatible who feels the same way about me, marriage is definitely an option. At the same time, thanks to the feminist movement, it’s not my only option. With the help of friends and family–and the hobbies and interests I share with them–I can lead a fun, creative, and colorful life without a man on my arm.
Oh, and another thing…
Of course, we’d be loath to admit it in this day and age, but ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won’t tell you it’s a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment. Most likely, she’ll say that what she really wants is a husband (and, by extension, a child).
Says who? I’m pretty close to forty. I’d much rather have a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment (career is going fine, thanks) than a husband at this stage in my life.
Children? Nope, not interested. I may be wrong about this, but if I haven’t gotten baby virus by now, I’m probably not going to. Besides, thanks to various child-bearing friends, I am enjoying vicarious parenthood far too much to be an actual parent.
I really, really, really wish these ostensibly “liberal” publications would realize that when you write “contrarian” articles, you’re writing conservative articles. If what you wrote could easily have been said by Wiliiam F. Buckley or Phyllis Schlafly, it’s not cutting-edge and hip.
Exhibit A: Maureen Dowd.
From a strictly financial standpoint, I probably should have married a plumber — we’d probably have a house by now, even in Los Angeles.
EEW. I am often happy to have a funky brain that makes the whole mess unpalatable to me, and this is one of those times. Yick. Sometimes when I watch human cultures, I feel like Jane Goodall watching chimps slapping each other, except without the feelings of amused affection.
Neurotypical humans. *snort* Yall are WEIRD.
… ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won’t tell you it’s a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment.
It’s MONEY. Fucking GOBS of it. Right now.
The part that pissed me off the most was
And all I can say is, if you say you’re not worried, either you’re in denial or you’re lying.
How dare she insist that she knows exactly how it is for all of womankind. What arrogance. What stupidity. Has she never heard of “projection”?
I did actually settle once, and over two decades later I’m still ashamed of it. I hurt many people (not least myself) by doing so. And when that marriage dissolved because “settling” couldn’t sustain a committed, happy partnership? I was relieved and grateful that at least we hadn’t brought children into the mess. It was the biggest mistake of my life, and I learned my lesson. There’s no way in hell I’d make that choice again.
By the way- I’m sorry my comment is posted here about six times. I was having issues posting here and it wasn’t showing up…until now, when it showed up several times.
TV isn’t like real life. When you have a wife as lazy as Peggy Bundy, and you’re not much better, the house would look and probably smell like a pigsty, rather than the moderately clean place it is. The family dynamics would feature violence of the physical and emotional variety not present in these tv shows. And so on…
_Natural Born Killers_. I remember a debate on a BBS where people couldn’t see the point of framing Mallory’s home-life as a sit-com against those of us to whom it made perfect, bitter sense as a critique of that particular media. That movie was a damned sight smarter than many gave it credit for.
…but ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won’t tell you it’s a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment. Most likely, she’ll say that what she really wants is a husband (and, by extension, a child).
Wow. I’m unmarried, will be turning 40 in two months, I have an awesome career, my waistline is smaller than it was when I was 20 (which, OK, is not saying all that much…but still), and I just bought a beautiful apartment all by myself with my very own money. And you know what? Whenever I see a pregnant woman my first thought is “DAMN I’m glad that’s not me.”
But it’s nice that I have Lori to tell me what I really want. WTF?
“[If] you get a cold shiver down your spine at the thought of embracing a certain guy, but you enjoy his company more than anyone else’s,” you reeeeeallly need to find new people to hang out with. Badly.
Right now there are many, many men out there in synagogues, churches, chapels and fields. They are communing with their god(s), and their message, sung to the heavens, is this:
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You! Lori Gottlieb dumped me once, and for that, a thousand times I Thank You!
PiatoR, one of the classic tropes in fiction is to lift a character and his/her relationships out of one genre and putting them in another, to reveal things that are either ignored or taken for granted. Often, a hero becomes a villain, or a comic relief character becomes a tragic figure.
Back when Mad was a comic book rather than a magazine, it ran a brutal “parody” of “Bringing Up Father” that showed the physical and emotional consequences of the horrible marriage of Maggie and Jiggs.
I was following links on Ms. Gottlieb, and came across this opening gem from another article:
Now if that isn’t both sad and revealing I don’t know what is.
ohsohappy, you have picked up and put your finger on something that Jeff Fecke and others have noted: the impact on the men that she is discussing. Both in this article and her very contrary “XY” article of two or so years ago, Ms. Gottlieb devotes no energy to any interest whatsoever to that question; the level of her self-absorption is absolutely staggering. I think a bigger question might be what fool would want to be with a woman who can’t, even in print and read by millions, bother to even pretend to give a crap about the men she is with.Just about everything that needs to be said has already been said - the anti-feminist way the argument proceeds, the profound sadness that underlies it - but I figured I’d add something silly.
It is blatantly obvious to me that you, Lori Gottlieb, watch too much tv.
What’s striking to me is the way that she not only fails to speak intelligently to human relationships or the problems of sexual difference, but that she fails to speak intelligently about sitcoms.
For instance, Gottlieb wonders whether on Friends, Rachel would have been happier with the dentist. Barry was a philandering asshole, as we learned within the first season. Rachel and her friend Mindy both break up with him when they find out he cheated on both of them.
To my horror, I found a link to audio commentary of this article on NPR as one of the top e mailed stories. Their summary:
Commentator Lori Gottlieb recently turned 40 and is still single. She’s come to the conclusion that the romantic view of marriage she has been clinging to might be all wrong, and that a more practical, pragmatic approach might make marriage more of a possibility in the future.
I can’t bring myself to actually hear the woman saying this shit out loud yet.
haelig, thanks for the link above to the Lance Mannion entry on this same story (comment #13). I didn’t like everything he had to say (protesting about not being a feminist just get old) . . . but I particularly liked this point:
I do know that love is essential to a marriage. It’s essential to raising children. Children don’t just need to be loved. They take it for granted anyway when they are. They need to see people loving and caring for others in order to understand what it means, how it works, how to do it. Watching a couple of respectful partners who’ve settled on each other passing them back and forth on schedule teaches them that they are either burdens or that other people are there just to be utilized.
This is why I am not a believer in staying together for the sake of the children. I am in favor of staying in love for the sake of the children, which is an idea that deserves some more thought, on my part. It’s better that children move back and forth between loving step-parents than staying put with unloving parents.
It seems like Ms. Gottlieb has a very sad,