speechless. I was left speechless by that. My first reaction, after the initial shock was, “fuck you”, because, no matter how vitriolic ginmar may be being, that’s uncalled for.

I’ve seen a lot of cold shit done to people here. A lot of heated words, assumptions about motive, places where predjudice trumps reason and all manner of logical and argumentational fallacies.

I’ve had heated disagreements with ginmar, on some of the same things boiling in this thread; but I have never seen so intentional a piece of bullshit ad hominem invective invoked.

And for what, because you got your feelings hurt because she said fuck you?

Well boo-hoo. I mean really? You weren’t playing the role of the person taking the high road (what with the dismissive one-liners about gold medals in the oppression olympics).

You don’t like the war fine. Your privilege. You wan’t to comment on the war, also fine; your duty.

You want to abuse the poor bastards who have to go fight it… not on. To tie it to this thread, it’s a piece of classism (and moralism). You have no clue what you are talking about. You don’t know why she joined. You don’t know what she did, nor what it was like (and the best books, films, articles and personal recollections you may hear are not better than pale shadows of what it’s like. You may appreciate, as through a glass darkly, but you will never understand).

What, in the name of heaven did you think that little mal mot was going to accomplish?

It was puerile, pathetic, mean-spirited, cheap and tawdry. If you’d said that in a public place, I might not deck you, but I sure as hell would be telling you off, and if someone else decked you, I’d not say they were wrong.

It was a verbal lynching. You stooped to a level of insult and personal attack loathesome in the extreme.

Not that I think you give a damn, but the back of my hand to you. I have not enough skill with words to express the level of scorn I have for someone so weak-minded to think up such a retort, and actually use it.

That’s what I thought. Consider me unsurprised.

Having consulted the relevant statutes, I remain unconvinced that it’s legal for non-NA men to rape (or commit other crimes against) NA women on reservation land. Not to be obdurate, I think you’re wrong to insist that I’m mistaken on this narrow point. The problem lies elsewhere, esp. in overlapping & confused jurisdictional lines & the indifference of the relevant authorities. Still, our disagreement concerns details, & isn’t something I want to dwell on.

On the larger issue of the rape of NA women, you’re absolutely right, & have opened my eyes. I knew from press accounts that things were bad, but you’ve pushed me to look further, & I see now that it’s far worse even than I’d imagined. You’ve done a real service here, & I hope the rest of us can make your effort worthwhile. Every feminist in the US should put this at the top of her agenda. I recommend anyone with the heart for it read last year’s Amnesty International report on the subject, at:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/alfresco_asset/
5afead16-a2cc-11dc-8d74-6f45f39984e5/
amr510352007en.pdf

If anyone has other references, please leave a note.

On sex work, I’ll just say I remain unpersuaded. We remain miles apart.

This post is my answer to your empty accusations. I asserted my own stupidity long before you got to tweak about it. I knew I was idiot about that. I admitted it. I have zero problem admitting that I am an idiot, and that I am wrong.

Vocabulary and snide comments aside, I AM NOT A FUCKING PILOT FISH. The only reason belledame and Ren had to come to this thread was your questioning of my blogroll and Dana’s inane misogyny. And yes, blaming the victim for a near rape is misogyny, and quit trying to downplay it because you have a problem with Ren.

There is no reason to believe otherwise or to say otherwise. I told no one who has commented on this thread about your problem with my blogroll, and you and yours are tweaking stupidly to suggest otherwise. Tinfoil hats are pleasant and cozy, I presume, but not logically or factually accurate.

And yeah, I got it. I’m Ampersand’s Ghost of Tweakery Present. Zoh. Mah. Gawd. Should I sign a loyalty oath to prove my worth, or are my “associations” enough to blacklist me? I do remember the last time I went through something like this, until the other 9th graders realized how stupid it was.

You and your friends can have a nice circle jerk now. Maybe you can gangbang another lone radfem the way you always do. It sure proves how superior you are.

I’m sick of having to scroll through the fighting. It’s distracting.

I won’t be back.

I’m looking over the links you’ve provided.

In particular, one from Brownfemipower struck a chord (Ive read her before as well, Im just not an avid blog reader)

‘about ethics of performance. Of course you’re free to do whatever racist performance you want to do – you are White in America after all and no one’s going to criminalize you. But the rest of us who are harmed by your actions are also free to call you to account for being racist and protesting your racist oppressive acts in order to defend ourselves, our communities and our value. And again, standing behind the censorship argument is another example consistently used by white folks to distance, reframe, ignore, or even invisibilize the topic of racism.’

This to me seems to echo my own sentiments regarding choosing to work in a sexist/racist industry. Your choice (be it wearing black face in a performance, or working for racists) does not exempt you from being called to account for it. Some here have pulled out the freedom of speech amendment, which is no different from the censorship arguement.

And this

“so I wonder how to confront the reality of of the “most” woman–while at the same time, working with the reality that at least *some* white women *have* begun to cross the river–along *with* the fact that there’s a lived reality of woc sex workers that is really really being affected by the bullshit. and that this lived reality is not just within their work, but leaks into their communities as well.”

Clearly, she believes the affects of racism in sex work leaks into the communitues.

Where I disagree with Rens comments

“Girls who fake accents (especially those that legit have nothing to do with their backgrounds, heritage wise), or “dress” the part (even though I have done it), well, it bothers me a bit. But I think a lot of them, if they hear how much it bothers people, will at least take a step back and consider that.”

I’ll be blunt here.

Seriously?? How long have WOC been saying that shit “bothers” them? That stereotypes “bother” us isn’t news. Have the stereotypes diminished at all? If no, then obviously simply telling women it “bothers” us hasnt resulted in much of a step back or consideration. And if it has, there hasn’t been a signiicant step back and considerations have been dismissed. And yes, I have a problem with the usage of the word “bother”. A fly buzzing in my house bothers me. Stereotypes of minorities sicken and infuriate me.

I’ve looked at the Ubuntu site, though not exensively. A cursory exploration doesnt reveal much on NA/First Nations people, though there is a refernce to Two Spirit, but given how often NA/First Nations words and concepts are co opted by non NA, I can’t assume that means NA/First Nations people.

“try to take down feminists’ websites.”

PROOF. Especially when “some of us” got attacked too.

No shit. Speaking of “lying.”

‘What a gang bang. Why don’t you film and RE and can sell it?”

RE wasn’t even IN this thread before you started fapping away. Jack hadn’t DONE anything to you. Can we -try- and focus?

And did you seriously just say that? What the hell is wrong with you, anyway? “Miss Plastic Tits?” “Gang bang?” You sound like an MRA.

“As women, we owe all women protection and allegiance.”

I don’t owe you shit, lady. And,

You have an odd way of showing it.

Uh, HELLO.

“How convenient that you bow out without addressing anything I said. Isn’t that just typical?”

“Come back here! I’ll bite your legs off!”

So long, you sad, angry little gnome.