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	<title>Comments on: If I keep bashing the queen, I&#8217;ll get to be Snow White forever</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Phoenician in a time of Romans</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487936</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487936</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;So, Clinton is a show-off about her smarts (Hermione Granger) and ambitious (every other politician) and willing to make political compromises (every politician who gets anywhere).&lt;/i&gt;

Different dynamic for female leaders outside the US; the impression I got from Shipley and Clarke here and from the Asian female PMs was that they had to show themselves to be twice as smart as their male peers to cement power (which for Clarke is difficult when your peer is Cullen - fortunately he's loyal).

I'm wondering if &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1202333351&amp;amp;sr=8-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this is relevant&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>So, Clinton is a show-off about her smarts (Hermione Granger) and ambitious (every other politician) and willing to make political compromises (every politician who gets anywhere).</i></p>
	<p>Different dynamic for female leaders outside the US; the impression I got from Shipley and Clarke here and from the Asian female PMs was that they had to show themselves to be twice as smart as their male peers to cement power (which for Clarke is difficult when your peer is Cullen - fortunately he&#8217;s loyal).</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m wondering if <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1202333351&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">this is relevant</a>?
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		<title>by: napthia9</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487612</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487612</guid>
					<description>Of course! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Of course! <img src='http://pandagon.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487598</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487598</guid>
					<description>Although it goes without saying that we are sure that Ms. Kate has a nice haircut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Although it goes without saying that we are sure that Ms. Kate has a nice haircut.
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		<title>by: napthia9</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487557</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487557</guid>
					<description>CBrachyrhynchos, I don't think that's a particularly fair judgment to make here. Maybe I've overlooked something, but I think that Amanda's post and this comment thread all agree that it's the women focusing on Hillary's femininity as the shallow reason behind their dislike who are suffering from internalized misogyny. Women like yourself or Ms Kate, who can explain their dislike by bringing up policy issues instead of haircuts are clearly not the subject being talked about here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>CBrachyrhynchos, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a particularly fair judgment to make here. Maybe I&#8217;ve overlooked something, but I think that Amanda&#8217;s post and this comment thread all agree that it&#8217;s the women focusing on Hillary&#8217;s femininity as the shallow reason behind their dislike who are suffering from internalized misogyny. Women like yourself or Ms Kate, who can explain their dislike by bringing up policy issues instead of haircuts are clearly not the subject being talked about here.
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		<title>by: CBrachyrhynchos</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487526</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487526</guid>
					<description>Ms Kate: I don't see much point in this.  The discussion has been framed, shrink-wrapped, and shipped in a cardboard box to fix it in place.  No matter how you criticize Clinton's politics or her bedfellows, someone is going to play the &quot;internalized misogyny&quot; card.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ms Kate: I don&#8217;t see much point in this.  The discussion has been framed, shrink-wrapped, and shipped in a cardboard box to fix it in place.  No matter how you criticize Clinton&#8217;s politics or her bedfellows, someone is going to play the &#8220;internalized misogyny&#8221; card.
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		<title>by: Ms Kate</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487418</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487418</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Hilary Clinton is Microsoft&lt;/i&gt;

Well, she did gain much of her vaunted &quot;experience&quot; in corporate board rooms while Obama was cutting his teeth in Illinois state politics.  Are we supposed to be surprised?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Hilary Clinton is Microsoft</i></p>
	<p>Well, she did gain much of her vaunted &#8220;experience&#8221; in corporate board rooms while Obama was cutting his teeth in Illinois state politics.  Are we supposed to be surprised?
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		<title>by: kidlacan</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487348</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487348</guid>
					<description>oh for fuck's sakes. can we fucking shut up about fucking obama vs. clinton? even just for a little while? it's possible to support obama and not have mommy issues. it's possible to support clinton without being a member of some elitist american-hating borg hivemind. christ alfuckingmighty. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oh for fuck&#8217;s sakes. can we fucking shut up about fucking obama vs. clinton? even just for a little while? it&#8217;s possible to support obama and not have mommy issues. it&#8217;s possible to support clinton without being a member of some elitist american-hating borg hivemind. christ alfuckingmighty.
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		<title>by: Godmonkey</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487343</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487343</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If the best people for the jobs don’t get elected because of unexamined misogyny, we deserve what we get.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Well, I certainly agree with you there, Cara. The day that happens, I'll supplicate the FSM right along with you.

My point is simply that that's &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; what's happening there. Other people's unexamined misogyny aside, Hillary is &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; the best person for the job.

And on a pragmatic note, look, a flattened squirrel should be able to beat John McCain, all right? But if there's any adversary that will see him squeak through to a win, it's Hillary Clinton. And you better believe we'll both be giving the FSM a piece of our minds the day that happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>If the best people for the jobs don’t get elected because of unexamined misogyny, we deserve what we get.</blockquote>
Well, I certainly agree with you there, Cara. The day that happens, I&#8217;ll supplicate the FSM right along with you.</p>
	<p>My point is simply that that&#8217;s <b>not</b> what&#8217;s happening there. Other people&#8217;s unexamined misogyny aside, Hillary is <b>not</b> the best person for the job.</p>
	<p>And on a pragmatic note, look, a flattened squirrel should be able to beat John McCain, all right? But if there&#8217;s any adversary that will see him squeak through to a win, it&#8217;s Hillary Clinton. And you better believe we&#8217;ll both be giving the FSM a piece of our minds the day that happens.
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487320</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487320</guid>
					<description>Ms. Kate, doesn't it come down to something like, &quot;yeah, I know I don't have what you want, so my solution is to attack the competition, even when they're better, rather than providing a superior product!&quot; ?

Holy.  Shit.  

Hilary Clinton is Microsoft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ms. Kate, doesn&#8217;t it come down to something like, &#8220;yeah, I know I don&#8217;t have what you want, so my solution is to attack the competition, even when they&#8217;re better, rather than providing a superior product!&#8221; ?</p>
	<p>Holy.  Shit.  </p>
	<p>Hilary Clinton is Microsoft.
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		<title>by: Ms Kate</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487313</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/04/6680/#comment-487313</guid>
					<description>The assumption that not voting for Hillary means unexamined mysogyny (rather than not thinking her the best person for the job) is antifeminist in the extreme.

Why?  Because it assumes that any voter who does not vote for said candidate is doing so out of bias, not because a woman could possibly be treated equally and ever lose out.  Telling me that I must be anti-woman because I'm a woman don't pick your favored woman candidate is insulting to my feminist autonomy and intelligence.

If all Clinton's staunchest supporters have to offer is name calling and insults toward people who might possibly vote for somebody else, then is their candidate truly the best one?  I don't think so. I don't think that people are going to flock to candidates because their supporters hurl insults and belittling head pats.  In fact, I think they are going to push people in the direction of candidates whose supporters are pushing the issues.  Clinton either supports these dubious tactics of East Coast &quot;With us or Against Us because You are Stupid&quot; Clique politics or lacks sufficient leadership of her supporters to make it clear that such are offensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The assumption that not voting for Hillary means unexamined mysogyny (rather than not thinking her the best person for the job) is antifeminist in the extreme.</p>
	<p>Why?  Because it assumes that any voter who does not vote for said candidate is doing so out of bias, not because a woman could possibly be treated equally and ever lose out.  Telling me that I must be anti-woman because I&#8217;m a woman don&#8217;t pick your favored woman candidate is insulting to my feminist autonomy and intelligence.</p>
	<p>If all Clinton&#8217;s staunchest supporters have to offer is name calling and insults toward people who might possibly vote for somebody else, then is their candidate truly the best one?  I don&#8217;t think so. I don&#8217;t think that people are going to flock to candidates because their supporters hurl insults and belittling head pats.  In fact, I think they are going to push people in the direction of candidates whose supporters are pushing the issues.  Clinton either supports these dubious tactics of East Coast &#8220;With us or Against Us because You are Stupid&#8221; Clique politics or lacks sufficient leadership of her supporters to make it clear that such are offensive.
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