I agree that NZ is better; I’ve travelled a fair bit and certainly things like street harrassment are worse in many of the places I’ve visited. I’m always wary of taking that line, though, because I hear it frequently from other Kiwis on everything from race relations to abuse of women, and it’s usually used by Kiwis to pat themselves on the back and ignore the problems (that whole “will no-one think of Muslim women forced into burkhas?” trope we see so often *eyeroll* ). That we treat Maori better than the Aussies treat Aboriginal people is hardly any proud thing, for example. Preaching to the choir, of course; it’s just a particular expression of opinion that bothers me unless you’re talking to someone you know for sure understands the whole context (eg. while Phoenician is feminist/pro-feminist/whatever, he’s still a man, and as such has no first hand knowledge of the harrassment NZ women get).

I love Wellington too and am a born-and-raised. We’re currently sans gay bar! A people without a home! I really like the scene here. My major problem with the femme thing is that most people just assume I’m straight on the scene and there’s that implication I need to prove my credentials all the time. As with masculinity which must be ever proven, so too is the femme’s burden, *girly sigh*

I definitely hear you on realising one’s own personal history as a woman in our cultures. I too have been lucky enough to not be raped, but there is just so much out there in regards to harassment and abuse simply for ‘Existing While Female’, that it fades to a certain extent into being a part of our everyday lives.

But you have to think about the effect that has on you in being constantly exposed to it over a lifetime. It’s no wonder we internalise this shite and a wonder we retain any self-possession at all.

I will say one thing to Phoenician above though, in kiwiland’s defense I’ve experienced FAR more harassment here in the US than I ever did back home in NZ. We’re not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but Aotearoa is a LOT better than some other parts of the world.

On a personal note, damn but I miss Wellers! I came out as lesbian and later as femme (and femme-orientated) in Chch while being at Uni, and I got SO much shit from the lesbian ‘community’ there for being femme. Going up to Wellington (where I was actually born) I felt so much at ease being a femme … not to mention, I simply adore Wellington as a city. If I am ever to move back home to New Zealand, it will only be to Wellington (plus my baby sis lives there), so I just wanted to say “hey!” to another Wellington femme lesbian *smile*

I do want to make it clear that although the examples I used mostly revolved around clubbing, I’ve experienced varying degrees of harrassment in all different parts of the public sphere. I was stalked for a brief period by a neighbour I met because I used to go and sit on a bank at the edge of the cemetery opposite where I grew up in the late afternoon sun in summer. It took me quite a while to realise he had begun deliberately showing up when I was over there, but his agenda became abundantly clear when, despite knowing I was gay, he suggested I give him a blowjob. Then he’d go down on me, of course; quite the gentleman. That put a stop to my being able to go and partake of the innocent pleasures of some sun after work in what was, in effect, my nearest park. And, Wellington being the size it is, I ran into him around 5 years later while walking home alone one night at about 4am so now he knows where I’m living (thankfully they’re apartments so there’s security and he doesn’t know my number). You can imagine that just about made my night. What *does* one say to the creeper stalker who still recognised me 5 years on, 30 kilos lighter and with long brown rather than short pink hair?

What’s amazed me about responding to this post is just HOW MANY incidents start coming back to you when you sit down and recall them. I’m someone who considers myself to have got by relatively unscathed and I haven’t been raped so I’ve always felt “lucky”. But then you write it all out and start remembering even back to the dirty teacher you had when you were 6 who held you uncomfortably close on his lap (and was later thrown out of the school; I’m sure you can guess why) and you start realising just how fucked up society is for women when I feel like nothing’s ever happened to me and then, actually, I could relate incident after incident over the years.

And the person making a fuss can never know whether the rest of the people watching the act will react with support or with ostracism.

From my experiences in New York, bystanders almost always respond with ostracism, especially men. “OMG! It’s a hysterical woman! Clearly she’s the one at fault or else she wouldn’t be making such a fuss.”

In fact, many of my friends and I experienced harassment or groping where we didn’t say anything and a bystander noticed what happened. In all of those cases, the bystander (always a man) treated us as though we were at fault.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Yeah, that’s why a lot of my straight female friends loved coming with us lesbians to gay bars, because having the only men in the bar be gay meant they could have a fun night without all the crap they would get from being at a straight bar (course, they’d also be hit on by queer girls, but that wasn’t like the crap they’d get otherwise).

I definitely noticed the difference between straight bars and gay bars myself because I’m femme. Course, kiwi guys are a bit more likely to accept a “piss off!” reaction, but they still wouldn’t be that much better.

I love my country; I’m just a bit more disappointed in it now.

Yeah, the one I spoke to mentioned the occasional harassment on public transport, and I recall some of the stories about the way Manners Mall has gone downhill.

*sigh*.

I hope (Northern) Europe is a bit more civilized.

I got groped on a bus back when I lived in Christchurch, NZ. Guy pinned me against the seat and got his hands all over me. The thing is, I’m tall, muscled, and a very assertive woman … I collapsed into a meek wee thing, terrified out of my mind, and I was bigger than the guy. I didn’t admit it to anyone, until I broke down at work and got taken to the police station by coworkers (the cops got the guy, and they were bloody awesome about it, I have to say).

Here in Chicago I’ve been groped a couple times on public trans (specifically the subway - the EL). Now I’m more inclined to do something about it, and I’ve had one guy virtually run off the train as I threatened him with bodily harm, and the other women around us realised he was doing something and started moving towards him too.

But back in NZ I used to get street-harassed too. There was one time I was walking across my campus and a bunch of workers doing construction work made some really nasty sexual comments, and so after dropping my bag off in my office I went to complain at the departmental office. Both of the staff there (older women) basically told me that I should just shut up and enjoy it, as soon I wouldn’t get comments anymore.

I was so stunned I left the office without saying anything.

I must admit I am kinda conflicted about band-aid solutions like this. On the one hand, as an activist feminist I hate this idea, for the reasons Amanda brings up. But on the other hand, the idea of a women-only train would be a wonderful relief of being able to drop my guard a tad.

When I was in NYC I got right up in a guy’s face who made a lewd comment to my sister, in part because it was the middle of the afternoon and we were in a crowd outside of the Letterman show, and it was SO SATISFYING. The little shit obviously hadn’t been called out on it much before, judging by his pathetic attempts at comebacks and because I felt safe enough to have a go at him I really got to let loose and swear up a storm. I suspect he’ll be a bit less likely to do it again, but these other pieces of shit will keep on cowardly doing it when you’re in an already intimidating situation. As for the clubs, let me just say that I there are some ways in which being gay is a blessing, and one of them is rarely stepping foot in straight bars.

“Walking home at night”

Right up there with “how do I protect my baby boy if these assholes decide to follow up.”

I hate this. I hate the fact that the world-at-large is contemptuous of the impact of street/physical harassment. I hate that the very real fear is dismissed as overreaction. I hate the reality that the very female presence in the public arena is sufficient justification for threatening abuse.

In my worser moments, I hate my lack of physical stature and clear physical limitations, and in my better moments, I’m still dead nuts on…down at the target berm.

I hate this. My response is CCW, and before ya’ll pile on…plz remember that I didn’t pick the fight, and it does not appear that the issue will be addressed by anyone other than bloggers anytime soon.