<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/1.5.1-alpha" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s not like pregnant women have lives or brains or jobs</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-493094</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-493094</guid>
					<description>&quot;There are two possibilities here: Dr. Li is really that much of a thoughtless asshat, or his quote was taken out of context. Either way—say what?! No downsides?! The only way that there’s no downsides for a caffeine addict to quit drinking coffee altogether is if you believe that women are utterly unimportant, or become so the second they get pregnant.&quot;

Are you serious???  Withdrawal is a downside?  Withdrawal is temporary.  Perhaps it doesn't make sense to quit caffeine.  After all, why should you if it is not having negative effects?  I don't see the danger in moderation, but why do you see EVERYTHING as somehow related to misogyny?  It's illogical.  William pointed this out in the first response.  But since all you carry is a hammer, all you see are nails.

www.disillusionedwords.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;There are two possibilities here: Dr. Li is really that much of a thoughtless asshat, or his quote was taken out of context. Either way—say what?! No downsides?! The only way that there’s no downsides for a caffeine addict to quit drinking coffee altogether is if you believe that women are utterly unimportant, or become so the second they get pregnant.&#8221;</p>
	<p>Are you serious???  Withdrawal is a downside?  Withdrawal is temporary.  Perhaps it doesn&#8217;t make sense to quit caffeine.  After all, why should you if it is not having negative effects?  I don&#8217;t see the danger in moderation, but why do you see EVERYTHING as somehow related to misogyny?  It&#8217;s illogical.  William pointed this out in the first response.  But since all you carry is a hammer, all you see are nails.</p>
	<p><a href='http://www.disillusionedwords.com' rel='nofollow'>www.disillusionedwords.com</a>
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: syfr</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483866</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483866</guid>
					<description>greensmile,

When an egg and a sperm get together, some surprising amount of the time, like 50% or 80% of the time, a live baby doesn't result after 9 months.  

Many of those the woman is not technically pregnant, since pregnancy begins at implantation, not at conception.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>greensmile,</p>
	<p>When an egg and a sperm get together, some surprising amount of the time, like 50% or 80% of the time, a live baby doesn&#8217;t result after 9 months.  </p>
	<p>Many of those the woman is not technically pregnant, since pregnancy begins at implantation, not at conception.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: greensmile</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483838</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483838</guid>
					<description>buried in the NYT coverage of this study was the factoid, previously unknown to me that 16% of pregnancies end in miscarriage...that means a LOT of women are keeping quiet about this.  

also, if the study is confirmed, my espresso machine is a factory for abortifacient and a surreptitious way out of a dilemma for women who are not delighted about their little demonstration of fertility.

But most of that 16% is just because rolling the genetic dice, one from dad, one from mom, did not add up to a whole number between 2 and 12 and the machinery kicked out the the 13 or the 5 and 3/4 or whatever.  Roll again or change the dice...either way is a pain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>buried in the NYT coverage of this study was the factoid, previously unknown to me that 16% of pregnancies end in miscarriage&#8230;that means a LOT of women are keeping quiet about this.  </p>
	<p>also, if the study is confirmed, my espresso machine is a factory for abortifacient and a surreptitious way out of a dilemma for women who are not delighted about their little demonstration of fertility.</p>
	<p>But most of that 16% is just because rolling the genetic dice, one from dad, one from mom, did not add up to a whole number between 2 and 12 and the machinery kicked out the the 13 or the 5 and 3/4 or whatever.  Roll again or change the dice&#8230;either way is a pain.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483754</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483754</guid>
					<description>Now it turns out that caffeine may help &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=82691-caffeine-coffee-ovarian-cancer&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;avoid ovarian cancer&lt;/a&gt;. Talk about a rock and a hard place...

My advice, if anyone cares: Tune 99% of these studies out. They're all done on an observational basis (they have to be, since you can't lock people up and forcibly give them a potentially unhealthy diet---at least, not on purpose) and so can't fully use the scientific method.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Now it turns out that caffeine may help <a href="http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=82691-caffeine-coffee-ovarian-cancer" rel="nofollow">avoid ovarian cancer</a>. Talk about a rock and a hard place&#8230;</p>
	<p>My advice, if anyone cares: Tune 99% of these studies out. They&#8217;re all done on an observational basis (they have to be, since you can&#8217;t lock people up and forcibly give them a potentially unhealthy diet&#8212;at least, not on purpose) and so can&#8217;t fully use the scientific method.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: lt</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483685</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483685</guid>
					<description>Salem LJ, my heart goes out to you. So much of the craziness around things likes this boils down to there's so much we don't understand, and can't control, and it sucks. People like to try to pretend they can control everything, and can be terrible moralistic twits because they can't accept this. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Salem LJ, my heart goes out to you. So much of the craziness around things likes this boils down to there&#8217;s so much we don&#8217;t understand, and can&#8217;t control, and it sucks. People like to try to pretend they can control everything, and can be terrible moralistic twits because they can&#8217;t accept this.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Raincitygirl</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483676</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483676</guid>
					<description>This is just anecdata here, but in my limited experience, pro-choicers tend to be far more compassionate towards women who've lost a wanted pregnancy than pro-lifers. And significantly less prone to making tactless and hurtful remarks. Could be I just know an unusually high proportion of nice pro-choicers, but I throw out the observation anyway. 

When I was a teenager, there was a lady at our church who was involved in anti-abortion activism (mostly outside the church, but she'd talk about it at church sometimes). The way she'd go on about those poor dead fetuses you'd think she would be draped in black if she heard about a miscarriage. But another woman at the church miscarried, and was publicly very upset about it, and she said some godawful insensitive stuff right in the middle of coffee hour. It seemed she was only concerned about dead fetuses when they offered an opportunity for her to harangue the previously pregnant woman. If the woman actually wanted the baby (and to quote Mark Foxwell, it's a baby if the pregnant woman wants it to be a baby), her loss didn't even register with Mrs Pro-Life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is just anecdata here, but in my limited experience, pro-choicers tend to be far more compassionate towards women who&#8217;ve lost a wanted pregnancy than pro-lifers. And significantly less prone to making tactless and hurtful remarks. Could be I just know an unusually high proportion of nice pro-choicers, but I throw out the observation anyway. </p>
	<p>When I was a teenager, there was a lady at our church who was involved in anti-abortion activism (mostly outside the church, but she&#8217;d talk about it at church sometimes). The way she&#8217;d go on about those poor dead fetuses you&#8217;d think she would be draped in black if she heard about a miscarriage. But another woman at the church miscarried, and was publicly very upset about it, and she said some godawful insensitive stuff right in the middle of coffee hour. It seemed she was only concerned about dead fetuses when they offered an opportunity for her to harangue the previously pregnant woman. If the woman actually wanted the baby (and to quote Mark Foxwell, it&#8217;s a baby if the pregnant woman wants it to be a baby), her loss didn&#8217;t even register with Mrs Pro-Life.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Zil</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483652</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483652</guid>
					<description>I went to a prenatal class at my local Kaiser yesterday and they're already preaching that pregnant women have to cut the coffee &amp;amp; soda altogether.  Never mind that the study was more specific - recommending avoid more than 1 1/2 cups of coffee per day before 20 weeks.  
Hell with that - I'm going to have my morning coffee &amp;amp; maybe another coffee during the day if I damn well want it.  
And (ooh, sin!) I had *a* glass of wine for Thanksgiving and *a* glass of wine for Christmas and I'll be having *a* glass of wine next month for my birthday.  Guess I'm a BAAAAD person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I went to a prenatal class at my local Kaiser yesterday and they&#8217;re already preaching that pregnant women have to cut the coffee &amp; soda altogether.  Never mind that the study was more specific - recommending avoid more than 1 1/2 cups of coffee per day before 20 weeks.<br />
Hell with that - I&#8217;m going to have my morning coffee &amp; maybe another coffee during the day if I damn well want it.<br />
And (ooh, sin!) I had *a* glass of wine for Thanksgiving and *a* glass of wine for Christmas and I&#8217;ll be having *a* glass of wine next month for my birthday.  Guess I&#8217;m a BAAAAD person.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Salem LJ</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483625</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483625</guid>
					<description>Ashley - so dead on.  2 m/c and 1 s/b and still, no live, healthy baby to show for it.  Fuck it, right now, as I see it, I might as well do a line of coke - hey, maybe then I can actually carry a pregnancy to term?  

I was at the maternal-fetal medicine specialist's office yesterday.  While they still can't tell me why the crackhead can carry a baby to term and have a live delivery and I, who followed all their little rules, cannot - he did say one thing that I thought was useful.  Paraphrased - the human body is meant to withstand and reproduce through all sorts of harshness and cruelty, yet to create life and sustain it past the first trimester is a very delicate and fragile thing.  I take this as, &quot;Fuck it.  Have the stupid Diet Coke, Coca-Cola, chocolate, fish, cheese, wahtever.  You can't control it with minor shit like this.&quot;

And BTW, I give up on the whole pregnancy thing.  Just. Can't. Do. It. Any. More.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ashley - so dead on.  2 m/c and 1 s/b and still, no live, healthy baby to show for it.  Fuck it, right now, as I see it, I might as well do a line of coke - hey, maybe then I can actually carry a pregnancy to term?  </p>
	<p>I was at the maternal-fetal medicine specialist&#8217;s office yesterday.  While they still can&#8217;t tell me why the crackhead can carry a baby to term and have a live delivery and I, who followed all their little rules, cannot - he did say one thing that I thought was useful.  Paraphrased - the human body is meant to withstand and reproduce through all sorts of harshness and cruelty, yet to create life and sustain it past the first trimester is a very delicate and fragile thing.  I take this as, &#8220;Fuck it.  Have the stupid Diet Coke, Coca-Cola, chocolate, fish, cheese, wahtever.  You can&#8217;t control it with minor shit like this.&#8221;</p>
	<p>And BTW, I give up on the whole pregnancy thing.  Just. Can&#8217;t. Do. It. Any. More.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Erika</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483579</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483579</guid>
					<description>I kind of hate to say it, but who really cares about miscarriage, other than the parents?  If caffeine is linked to permanent fetal abnormalities, then ok, encourage women to give up caffeine.  It's better for them &lt;b&gt;and&lt;/b&gt; better for children.  But this study only shows a link between caffeine and miscarriages.  There's no societal interest in cutting down on spontaneous abortions, unless you believe that everything from a zygote to a third trimester fetus is a person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I kind of hate to say it, but who really cares about miscarriage, other than the parents?  If caffeine is linked to permanent fetal abnormalities, then ok, encourage women to give up caffeine.  It&#8217;s better for them <b>and</b> better for children.  But this study only shows a link between caffeine and miscarriages.  There&#8217;s no societal interest in cutting down on spontaneous abortions, unless you believe that everything from a zygote to a third trimester fetus is a person.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: inge</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483514</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/21/its-not-like-pregnant-women-have-lives-or-brains-or-jobs/#comment-483514</guid>
					<description>Phoenician: &lt;i&gt;Of course, to play the Devil’s Advocate, if you do whatever you want while pregnant and your kid shows up autistic, or physically damaged, or even just a bit slow, you'll be spending the rest of your life wondering &quot;what if?&quot; and &quot;If only I hadn't...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

It's the same in all debates on security tradeoffs. But the fear of having to say &quot;If only I had kept my kid locked in the cupboard under the stairs he wouldn't have got run over by a car&quot; is not helpful in making good decisions. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Phoenician: <i>Of course, to play the Devil’s Advocate, if you do whatever you want while pregnant and your kid shows up autistic, or physically damaged, or even just a bit slow, you&#8217;ll be spending the rest of your life wondering &#8220;what if?&#8221; and &#8220;If only I hadn&#8217;t&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
	<p>It&#8217;s the same in all debates on security tradeoffs. But the fear of having to say &#8220;If only I had kept my kid locked in the cupboard under the stairs he wouldn&#8217;t have got run over by a car&#8221; is not helpful in making good decisions.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
