Richard Cohen should go into teaching yoga, what with his remarkable stretching and bending abilities he shows off in this column where he tries to link Barack Obama with anti-Semitism. And I suspect it’s also a bit of an attempt to reinforce the rumors that Obama is a secret Muslim, which to an unfortunately large segment of the population is synonymous with “terrorist sympathizer”. The argument, in steps:
- Obama attends a church in Chicago, which unfortunately for the crazy haters is called the Church of Christ, with the word “Christ” right there and everything, all making it hard to pretend that it’s a jihad-plotting headquarters.
- The minister of the church, Jeremiah A. Wright Jr, helped start a magazine called Trumpet Magazine and his daughters run it.
- The magazine gave Louis Farrakhan an award for being a great leader, an award named after the minister.
- Farrakhan is a terrible person who says terrible things about Jews.
- It’s not mentioned, but readers are probably aware that Farrakhan is also the head of the Nation of Islam in the U.S. The Nation of Islam is to regular Islam like Mormonism is to Christianity, but most racists who fear the blacks and the Muslims probably don’t understand that distinction.
- Therefore, Obama’s got some ’splaining to do.
It’s worth noting that Cohen doesn’t demand that Giuliani make excuses for the Spanish Inquisition, though he shares a faith with the inquisitors of old, putting him one step closer to them than Obama is to Farrakhan. In fact, no white candidates are made to answer for the Holocaust, even though all but probably Romney share a Christian faith with the white Christians who conducted that.
The funny part is that Cohen admits that Obama did in fact ’splain the situation, kind of ruining the whole point of the op-ed.
It’s important to state right off that nothing in Obama’s record suggests he harbors anti-Semitic views or agrees with Wright when it comes to Farrakhan. Instead, as Obama’s top campaign aide, David Axelrod, points out, Obama often has said that he and his minister sometimes disagree. Farrakhan, Axelrod told me, is one of those instances.
But Cohen rolls with the rest of the article as if this inconvenience never happened, quoting apparently the only speech MLK ever made and trying to shame Obama about anti-Semitic attitudes Obama unlikely doesn’t have.
And yet Wright heaped praise on Farrakhan. According to Trumpet, he applauded his “depth of analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation.” He praised “his integrity and honesty.” He called him “an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose.” These are the words of a man who prayed with Obama just before the Illinois senator announced his run for the presidency. Will he pray with him just before his inaugural?
Now, I’m an atheist so maybe I’m a little hazy on this, but isn’t ministration supposed to be about all the touchy-feely spiritual stuff, not intense agreement on issues like what members of entirely separate faiths are worthy of praise or not? I’m sure most Americans are probably hazy or disinterested in their pastors’ opinions on Louis Farrakhan. Romney is a member of a church that banned black people from full membership until the 70s, but I’m not overly interested in that fact, either. Barring those super right wing churches, in most churches you can’t draw a direct line between what the minister thinks about politics and what the parishioners think. Most Americans pick and choose what they get out of going to church, and rare is the person who swallows it wholesale. There’s a lot of partitioning, too. It’s worth remembering that most of the people who bitch and moan about society’s responsibilities to the least among us officially believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
If the crazy places that people go in their religious life wigs you out, demanding that candidates be atheists and don’t even start at a baseline of believing in the Sky Fairy would be a good start. Oh wait. There’s no fucking way an atheist could even have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the Presidency. We Americans have the baseline requirement that our leaders all pledge fidelity to a make-believe father in heaven. After that, quibbling about the particulars seems really stupid to me. Perhaps all the people nosing around Obama’s church or Romney’s church might take a page out of the atheist handbook and realize that you’re simply going to have to tolerate that your leaders have private beliefs that seem really odd to you, but that you’re still going to respect the fact that they’ll be able to compartmentalize and do the job we’ve hired them to do.
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# Obama attends a church in Chicago, which unfortunately for the crazy haters is called the Church of Christ, with the word “Christ” right there and everything, all making it hard to pretend that it’s a jihad-plotting headquarters.
Jesus Christ was a Muslim prophet. Quran 5:72-75:
“[5:72] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, “O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord and your Lord.” Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.
[5:73] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.
[5:74] Would they not repent to GOD, and ask His forgiveness? GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate! “
Oh, I know. I doubt anyone who thinks OMIGOD OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!!11!!11!!eleven!!! knows that, though.
Obama is the Muslim Manchurian Candidate. The what, two or four years he spent in Indonesia was part of a grand scheme to brain wash him and turn him into a political mole. He has been carefully cultivated and guided to this point. He is Muslim but he is faking being Christian so he can take power, close all Christian churches and open the US to Islam. eeeeeeeeeek.
3,4, and 5 are priceless. Perfect Jonah Goldberg logic. it is reasonable then that Obama is a black extremist on top of being a mole.
Ah, were he to win the Presidency, it would warm my heart if these whack-a-doos would expatriate.
Oh, I know. I doubt anyone who thinks OMIGOD OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!!11!!11!!eleven!!! knows that, though.
At the risk of being accused of being anti-mentally-ill again, I will point out that the one and only person who’s tried to tell this story to me in person was (a) functioning but clearly mentally ill and (b) got it all mixed up and thought Obama’s middle name was bin Laden. When I corrected her and said, “Well, actually, his middle name is Hussein,” she looked kinda disappointed.
It’s worth noting that Cohen doesn’t demand that Giuliani make excuses for the Spanish Inquisition, though he shares a faith with the inquisitors of old
Who demonstrably did worse things to Jewish people than any anti-Semitic Muslim.
That is a weird collection of Amazon book entries for this post:
The Audacity of Hope - Obama
The Bard’s Tale Video Game
A Crown of Swords By Robert Jordan
Complete B-Sides By The Pixies.
LOL! (Can’t fault the Complete B-Sides, though. Good music.)
Oh, I know. I doubt anyone who thinks OMIGOD OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!!11!!11!!eleven!!! knows that, though.
My darling(s), is it not our job to educate them in these important matters? Surely if they feel like quoting the Holy Bible to us, we may quote the Holy Quran back to them…
What are they going to do - complain that a revealed religious text isn’t sufficient evidence on which to base an argument?
Which reminds me - when are we going to get a Revealed Authorised Text for the Church of the Holy Disco Ball?
Ugh, now you’ve gone and derailed the thread Jack. I can’t stand seeing the name Robert Jordan right now because I’m almost done the first Wheel of Time book and would be quite willing to commit murder against his protaganist, Rand. SO. MUCH. RAGE.
I really get tired of this syllogism getting applied to African-Americans:
1) Black person A has said silly/offensive things.
2) Candidate B is black.
3) Therefore, B must be assumed to agree with everything A says unless s/he explicitly disavows it.
At least Cohen tries to make a connection between Farrakhan and Obama other than skin color, however ridiculously farfetched. Most commentators don’t bother.
Just wait until you hit about book 4, and he stops being the young naif and starts being a full-on Jack Ryan fantasy wish fufillment for the author (only emo). I read through the first 5 books, got halfway through the sixth, and had one of those sitting-in-a-dark-corner fetal-position “is this really what my life has come to?” moments and gave up on fantasy.
The fact that Jordan died halfway through writing the last book of the series gives me the most delicious sense of Schadenfreude. I can’t help but feel that the fans of the series deserve it.
Also he has an overdeveloped sense of gender essentialism and a weird, Heinlein-esque view of women.
OKOKOK! I’m sorry I derailed the thread. It was just a bit of lighthearted HolyShitWTF!
) Therefore, B must be assumed to agree with everything A says unless s/he explicitly disavows it.
Hah! I want every single interviewer or pundit who makes that sort of dumbass connection to be forced to start every sentence with, “Speaking, as you for, for the ____________ community…”
Dorks.
Also, this was kind of interesting, but I’d rather see how he links Obama to Kevin Bacon.
Cohen gets more nutty right-wing every day.
But Bitter Scribe, here’s a secret; that’s how it really works especially for black people.
It’s like the Borg. Our leader(s) have a thought and it disseminates down through the drones and we all have the thought. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been sitting in my office and suddenly I’ll have the urge to give out million dollar prizes under my audience’s chair, or felt tricked by lying autobiographers. It’s freaky really;)
Carl Rennie - please don’t tell me you gave up on all fantasy because of Jordan! I love fantasy (and SF), and read widely. I have yet to finish a Jordan book and never, ever intend to try. Also, if you dislike Jordan, be cautious about Terry Goodkind, Terry Brooks, and David Eddings.
My favorite for specifically epic fantasy is George R.R. Martin, though mostly, I will admit, for the frothing rage he sends Jordan fans into. The evil people push children off rooftops, pour molten gold on people’s heads, and sell their sisters into concubinage at young ages! How dare evil people do evil things! Doesn’t Martin know that’s why evil people have minions?
JESUS is a Muslim prophet. However, I don’t think Muslims believe that Jesus is CHRIST. So a place called Church of Christ cannot be Muslim because referring to Christ presumes a non-muslim belief that Jesus is the Messiah.
Er, never mind. Guess I’m wrong now that I have looked at Phoenician’s quotations more carefully.
Just wait until you hit about book 4, and he stops being the young naif and starts being a full-on Jack Ryan fantasy wish fufillment for the author (only emo). I read through the first 5 books, got halfway through the sixth, and had one of those sitting-in-a-dark-corner fetal-position “is this really what my life has come to?” moments and gave up on fantasy.
I was going to post almost exactly this. “You hate him NOW? Just wait!” I also gave up halfway through book six. My sister still reads them, more out of stubborness than anything. I keep telling her life is too short, but …
My favorite for specifically epic fantasy is George R.R. Martin
[totally not feeding the threadjack]
Yes. GRR Martin is almost the anti-Jordan. And almost infinitely better. (Though I admit, I do want to see how Jordan’s series ends, as I do like the character of Nynaeve.)
[/totally not feeding the threadjack, hopefully]
JESUS is a Muslim prophet. However, I don’t think Muslims believe that Jesus is CHRIST.
i.e. ‘The Anointed One’ or ‘The Messiah’?
You mean apart from calling him just that in 5:75?
For what it’s worth, here’s the Wikipedia. It doesn’t have teh same meaning as the Christian Messiah, but then again, the Christian Messiah doesn’t have the same meaning as the Jewish use of the word.
Oh, I know. *Enters Dork Mode* I RP. Alot. I play the d20 WoT Game. I’m only reading the books because I decided that I need to know a little more about the world that I am so immersed in. My problem is that I love the world - as my female DM has recreated it. I sort of love parts of it that I can gather from the books… I’m sort of in love with Moiraine right now. Jordan’s attitudes towards women are extremely fucked up. I spent two hours going over the gender issues in just the first half of the first book with a male friend and even he agrees with me. So… I’ve heard a lot about what Rand gets up to. In the RP version my character is actually hell-bent on killing him (and she isn’t even a forsaken! or a darkfriend! or evil at all!) just for being such a dick.
Rand is just…. such a Mary Sue. Or Gary Stu, or whatever you want to call it.
I’m on chapter 44 of the first book. I’m actually listening to them as audiobooks while I file or do other inane tasks at work, so I’m not wasting my precious time on them, but this does sometimes lead to me going glazed and standing slack-jawed for a few minutes not knowing what to make of the latest development in Randland.
I’ve heard really good things about George RR Martin from one of my coworkers. I should check him out as I am a pretty huge fantasy dork.
Jack,
I’m totally not loving Nynaeve right now. First off, on a meta level, I really dislike the way he hijacks names (Artur Paendrag anyone?) I mean ok Nynaeve is probably one of his more subtle namejacks, but still how many Arthurian things does he need to rip off? King reborn in time of need? check. Artur Paendrag, Nynaeve (one of the names of the Lady of the Lake), Elayne (Elaine)… yeeeeah….
Second off… I just don’t find her character likeable.. maybe she will be later. I really dislike how his characterization of a “strong female”, apart from Moiraine, seems to mean she rolls her eyes and says “Men!” alot.
I could go on but I just keep feeding that threadjack…
Oh God, Third comment in a row (you can tell I have very much coursework to be getting on with and that I’m an expert procrastinator)…
I’d actually love to see Amanda read the first book and shred it to pieces, book club style. I would be immensely satisfied with that as she could do the seriously fucked up issued contained there in justice like I never could.
My favorite for specifically epic fantasy is George R.R. Martin, though mostly, I will admit, for the frothing rage he sends Jordan fans into.
Oo! I was already waiting breathlessly for A Dance of Dragons, but now I have even more reason. I had no idea it pissed off Wheel of Lame fans so much. I guess they’re just mad that nobody made a collectable card game out of Jordan’s table-levelers.
So Richard Cohen is covered in yummy salt? That’s cool.
I do hope that no Republican candidate has ever attended a church whose pastor, preacher, curate, priest or archfiend ever praised, say, Jerry Falwell.
I expect that candidate will really be getting a piece of Richard Cohen’s mind.
God, I seriously did not want a threadjack, so, but :
Arianna here is my response:
I’m totally not loving Nynaeve right now.
Later, she becomes a heroine against the Dark One (the most powerful, actually).
His (Jordan’s) purpose was to create a mythology that attempted to explain all mythology by explaining it through stories and his own mythology.
I’m not saying he’s right, as I do not agree with him in numerous areas.
Barring those super right wing churches, in most churches you can’t draw a direct line between what the minister thinks about politics and what the parishioners think.
The Church of Christ is one of those super right wing churches. I had no idea that was the church Obama went to.
I think of Martin as the anti-Goodkind myself. Why do Jordan’s fans hate Martin so much?
I had no idea it pissed off Wheel of Lame fans so much
It is more because 1) it is infinitely netter than Jordan and 2) Martin is an actually serious writer, thus, his prose is more in-depth and the endings are harder to deal with than Jordan.
It also doesn’t help that the male narrator (the audio books have a female and a male narrator that seem to switch off pretty randomly) gives her a crone-voice that I absolutely can’t stand, but that has nothing to do with RJ.
I’m probably going to torment myself by finishing the series mostly out of love for Moiraine and now hopefully for Nynaeve to get less annoying. I sort of love Egwene as well, but I heard there is some serious character assassination of her that goes on later.
By the by, am I the only one totally in love with the way of the leaf?
AND WE ARE ALL EXTREMELY OFF-TOPIC, HERE.
And I am completely responsible, as this is entirely my fault.
Oh, Martin is the anti-Goodkind as well? I got to.. um.. Was Pillars of Creation after or before Naked Empire? Whichever one was later, before I just Could. Not. Take. It. Any. More.
Goodkind and Jordan have alot in common: Mary Sue/Gary Stu male wizard character shows up to smash pseudo-Matriarchy!
Yeah… I feel sort of bad because I’m abusing the threadjack that I totally caused to procrastinate. This certainly beats working on a seminar on the Medieval Romance.
am I the only one totally in love with the way of the leaf?
Absolutely not. As a pacifist, I love the way of the traveling people. You will find out the belief’s importance by reading on. Though, I will say the books after The Dragon Reborn include a large amount of superfluous shit.
1) it is infinitely netter than Jordan
WHOOPS! That should say:
it is infinitely better than Jordan
SPOILER
They were like the Aiel that didn’t believe in fighting and got kicked out of the waste or summit right?
(I can never tell what is part of my DM’s version of events on the real version of events, but my character got randomly effed up while channeling in Rhuidean (don’t ask) and got like +10 Knowledge (Aeil) and learned all this crap…)
Well, it doesn’t take that much to be better than Jordan… I generally do try to avoid American male fantasy writers as a whole, they tend to annoy/disappoint me.
And, I did make a little bit of an explanation here, though it is obvious that Jordan is writing from a male standpoint.
SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They were like the Aiel that didn’t believe in fighting and got kicked out of the waste or summit right?
The Aiel were originally the Tuatha’an. They abandoned the way of the leaf some time after the breaking of the world.
I will say that Jordan is obviously a completely sexist writer. That’s why I like George R.R Martin, because he is realistic, and not biased.
I remember looking at those Robert Jordan doorstops in the library as a pimple-faced 14yrold and thinking “This looks incredibly lame”.
I then went on to read everything Terry Brooks ever wrote, and all the Star Wars spinoff shit.
I still think Orson Scot Cards “Lovelock” is one of the coolest books ever.
good to know I was right about Jordan.
Ah, I knew it was something like that. My character got it from the Aiel perspective though, so I suppose that’s why I had it kind of backwards.
Anyway, I think I give up on writing for tonight. The presentation is tomorrow and its worth 25% of my grade but I just can’t care anymore. I’ll stop with the threadjack now, promise
(at least until I’m at work, anyway)
My cat’s breath smells like cat food. And Richard Cohen.
That is a weird collection of Amazon book entries for this post:
Isn’t that based on you the reader, not the content of the post? Right now mine says Keats, Wollstonecraft, Richard Russo, etc. Or is it blending the content of the blog (as an “interest”) and our individual wish lists?
Incidentally, I _wish_ mine had come up with Pixies B-sides.
Isn’t that based on you the reader
It’s different for every person, as I have completely different links as well, currently.
Jordan? Brooks? Those guys are barely even WRITERS, let alone authors. Geeze people, quit wasting your time.
Read the good shit: Vance, early Zelazny, Lord Dunsany, Holdstock.
I mean, dang, Jordan? How’d that even happen? Somebody really HATE trees?
Nation of Islam always reminded me more of Christian Science than Mormonism
We have issues of Trumpet Magazine at my workplace. I’ve handled newspaper articles about Louis Farrakhan, going so far as to digitally archive them so they could be recalled later. Some of the articles weren’t critical of Farrakhan’s horrible anti-semitic statements. I probably have more ’splaining to do than Obama. (Um…I didn’t inhale?)
He doesn’t. He goes to a United Church of Christ. The UCC has never been affiliated with the fundamentalist Churches of Christ (and by the way those are not all affiliated with the International Churches of Christ that you linked). They just have similar names.
This is Obama’s church. Look around; convince yourself it’s not a right-wing fundie hellhole.
If you’re only reading the first book, you haven’t even seen the start of the fucked up gender things. Something that weirds me out about a lot of fantasy and sci-fi is when the author keeps forcing the characters into weird kinky situations - so often that you begin to suspect the author is revealing a little to much.
Look out for these from Jordan:
Women folding their arms “under their breasts”. Never just folded. It’s “under the breasts” or nothing.
Women “tugging their braids”. It might just be Nynaeve, but she does it pretty much every chapter she’s in.
Spanking. SO MUCH spanking. There’s whole chapters devoted to various characters getting spanked in various situations. Egwene’s been spanked so often she must have calluses like leather.
It seriously started to creep me out. Other authors do it too. Nearly every Heinlen book has a scene where a bunch of folk get naked together. Creepy.
I gave it a few years, and it turns out I really like post-modern style-over-substance fiction (David Foster Wallace, Mark Danielewski); it just makes me giddy. Between Brooks and Jordan, and this kind of gnawing feeling that JRR Tolkein just wasn’t very good, I mostly moved away from fantasy. Honestly I don’t read enough, and even though I’ve been enjoying denser fiction it takes more out of me to read it and pay attention. Lately I just haven’t had time for stuff I don’t really like.
So is Martin really worth checking out?
Phoenician, thanks. As you can see, I retracted my earlier comment immediately once I read your quotations more carefully. (Note to self: Read full comment before responding.) The Wikipedia link is very helpful.
I’d point out here that The New Republic, a fairly reputable moderate Democratic opinion journal, ran a major cover story on Mitt Romney (in January of 2007, I think) telling us that he is a Mormon and therefore we have to examine his religion and see if he’s fit to be president, with an examination of Mormon chrch positions much more than an examination of the candidate’s. It isn’t only Senator Obama who has suffered this type of attack.
….The New Republic, a fairly reputable moderate Democratic opinion journal, ….
Hahahahahahahahahahaha……..
*wipes away tears from laughing so hard*
I suppose we should consider it progress that even people trying to make this sort of argument don’t feel that they can credibly write “even the liberal New Republic” anymore.
To point out the obvious:
1) The New Republic is neither reputable, nor moderate, nor Democratic, though it does often resemble Joe Lieberman, who is also occasionally mistakenly called all of these things..
2) What the New Republic did is in no way similar to what Richard Cohen did. TNR raised questions about Mormonism, a belief system that Mitt Romney openly embraces. That may or may not be fair game, but it is decidedly different from the extremely loose guilt-by-association that Cohen is practicing here, which has nothing whatsoever to do with criticizing the core beliefs of the UCC.
3) Finally, to compare Cohen’s idiocy with questions about Romney’s actual religion is to do Cohen’s work for him by implying that Obama’s religious beliefs themselves somehow ally him with the Nation of Islam.
Thanks for playin’, Dana!
That Cohen article was just…bizarre. Almost reaching a Kevin Bacon caliber of dot-connecting.
Mormons basically believe that women have no souls. Women can’t get to heaven without being married, and een then they can only get to heaven (excuse me - they only receive their own planet upon which to spread the word of Moroni) if their husbands do. Even with Huckabee’s promotion of the submissive wife, I’m more nervous about Romney’s religious beliefs than I am about anyone else’s.
I’m no theologian, but isn’t the Congregational church (a/k/a United Church of Christ) generally considered one of the most decentered and democratic Christian denominations?
Full disclosure: I’m about as secular as they come, but I have gone to Christmas services at a Congregational church with extended family. I suppose this means I have to write Richard Cohen a note specifically disavowing Farrakhan.
Ahh, thanks Grammar RWA.
Who demonstrably did worse things to Jewish people than any anti-Semitic Muslim.
Actually that is not entirely true. But what is factual is that Martin is a much better writer than Jordan. The Wheel of Time series falls so short of the mark.
“I’m no theologian, but isn’t the Congregational church (a/k/a United Church of Christ) generally considered one of the most decentered and democratic Christian denominations?”
I don’t know that “decentered” and “democratic” necessarily go together. While decentered would mean not needing to obey mandates of a disassociated cetral authority figure, it doesn’t eliminate the possibility of the congregation being hijacked by a preacher and core of supporters, which is still decidedly non-democratic.
On the other hand, a denomination like the Presbyterians have a very elaborate democratic system that never gives the majority of power to ministers, and divides power at the upper levels between ministers, elders and lay people… but there is a top level, and decisions get made there which are carried out in the various congregations. So it’s not decentered.
So I think my answer is really that you had two questions, not just one… heh… hope my rambling helped.
I and about 150 other very white Presbyterians had the opportunity to hear Rev. Wright at a spiritual renewal conference put on by the New Hope Presbytery, one of the middle governing bodies of the Presbyterian Church (USA) in North Carolina.
He was phenomenal, eye-opening, inspirational and very much a Christian minister.
How ridiculous this attack is.
Farrakhan is a terrible person who says terrible things about Jews.
It’s not mentioned, but readers are probably aware that Farrakhan is also the head of the Nation of Islam in the U.S. The Nation of Islam is to regular Islam like Mormonism is to Christianity, but most racists who fear the blacks and the Muslims probably don’t understand that distinction.
I like the NoI:Islam::Mormonism:Christianity analogy; unlike the commenter above, I agree that the NoI’s specifically American mythology, its science-fictiony cosmology, its attitudes toward women, its explicit yearning to reproduce the lives of the Biblical patriarchs, and its insularity actually make the analogy pretty apt. (Although Christian Science does share some of these, my run-ins with the three groups give me impression that Mormonism is the closer fit.)
That said, I’m not all that comfortable with your characterization of Farrakhan and the NoI generally. Yes, he’s an anti-semitic demagogue, and that’s unfortunate, and perhaps its does make him a “terrible person”. I have to admit that I never understood the function of anti-semitism, as opposed to more general antipathy toward whites, in the NoI. But I’ve had a lot of run-ins with the Nation, mostly while growing up as a white kid in DC, and while I’m obviously not on their guest list, it’s hard to deny that they’ve done a world of good for black communities in the US. I suppose the same might be said for evangelical Christian churches in poor communities, and perhaps I’m guilty of using a double standard. But I do think that being black in America is different from just being poor, and I have a lot of sympathy for what the Nation is trying to accomplish and what they have already accomplished. If you can find a copy, James Baldwin’s “The Fire Next Time” describes his ambivalence upon meeting Elijah Mohammed and is, IMO, perhaps the best single work written on race in America.
Carl Rennie - If you like the concept of epic fantasy, but get annoyed at the usual writers of it, then Martin is definitely worth a try. By your description of your literature tastes though, you might be better off trying The Last Unicorn (Peter S. Beagle), or possibly Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norrel (whose author I’m blanking on, but enough people have read it I’m sure someone can fill you in.).
kodiak, that’s helpful, thanks. I get church governance and church doctrines commingled in unhelpful ways.
UCC and Presbyterianism have very similar church heierarchies. In the Presbyterian Church an individual congregation is self governing, either througha bicameral (Session and Trustees) or unicameral (Session only) structure. The Elders, who are the members of the session, are chosen through the votes of the congregation, and serve for limited terms. Ministers of the Word act essentially as CEOs, but are subject in matters of church operations to the will of the Session. The Session, however, has no control over the preaching. There is freedom of speech from the pulpit.
Matters of Doctrine are established through the church’s heierarchy of Presbyteries and Synods, which are sort of the district and state levels, and each successive layer is made up of representatives from the level below. The Final layer is the Assembly, which meets annually (I think). All of this is governed by the Scriptures and the Book of Church Order. The Book of Order is the Constitution of the Church and can only be amended by action of the Assembly and a certain number of the Synods (again, I think).
There are a suprising number of similarities between Presbyterian church organization and our Constitutional system. The former is far older than the latter, btw, and had a significant influence on the Founders. It is not for nothing that the American Revolution was sometimes known in England as the “Presbyterian Revolt.”
Now that we have gone significantly off topic, I will get back to work.
I got one major thing wrong. The Assembly is elected from the Presbytery, not the Synod.
oops.
Actually that is not entirely true.
Really? Any evidence? Remember, we are talking about the Inquisition here, and if you talk about the Spanish Inquisition, hooboy.
Thread-jacking shamelessly.
Those who like George R R Martin should look at R Scott Bakker’s _Prince of Nothing_ series starting from _The Darkness That Comes Before_.
You might also find Glen Cook’s _Tales of the Black Company_ series worthwhile.