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	<title>Comments on: Filing the edges off of racism</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Olivia</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481888</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481888</guid>
					<description>I haven't gone thru all the comments yet, but I want to agree with tzu's comment.  It's easy for a person who is older to look at teen and 20-somethings and say, &quot;It's so sad that they don't know the history.&quot;  But lets look at why they don't know.  Every history class I took spent eons on things that happened befor WWII, but the rest was thrown in at the end of the year and barely discussed.  

As I commented in PD's post, I honestly did not know some of those terms are racist.  Lynching, yes, but cakewalk? No.  What us &quot;youngins&quot; need (I'm 29) is the patience of older generations to teach us some of these things.  I was 25 before I was cognizant that the racist stereotype of black people &quot;loving fried chicken&quot; existed.  Now that I know, I can be aware when others use it and and call them on their bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I haven&#8217;t gone thru all the comments yet, but I want to agree with tzu&#8217;s comment.  It&#8217;s easy for a person who is older to look at teen and 20-somethings and say, &#8220;It&#8217;s so sad that they don&#8217;t know the history.&#8221;  But lets look at why they don&#8217;t know.  Every history class I took spent eons on things that happened befor WWII, but the rest was thrown in at the end of the year and barely discussed.  </p>
	<p>As I commented in PD&#8217;s post, I honestly did not know some of those terms are racist.  Lynching, yes, but cakewalk? No.  What us &#8220;youngins&#8221; need (I&#8217;m 29) is the patience of older generations to teach us some of these things.  I was 25 before I was cognizant that the racist stereotype of black people &#8220;loving fried chicken&#8221; existed.  Now that I know, I can be aware when others use it and and call them on their bullshit.
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		<title>by: louise</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481800</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481800</guid>
					<description>Margalis, you also brought up a good point in my mind: just what ARE the current FCC standards? So I searched and found this:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Ht9oGjBmlkwJ:arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061226-8495.html+fcc+fines+rules+standards&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;ct=clnk&amp;amp;cd=4&amp;amp;gl=us

Seems like until the FCC's collective feet are held to the fire in court and RELEASE a clear, concise, and public list of rules with outlined fines and punishments for violations, essentially all of the networks are &quot;playing Monopoly without knowing the rules&quot;. And plenty are taking advantage of the vagueness!

Anyone know more than this? I'm curious...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Margalis, you also brought up a good point in my mind: just what ARE the current FCC standards? So I searched and found this:</p>
	<p><a href='http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Ht9oGjBmlkwJ:arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061226-8495.html+fcc+fines+rules+standards&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=4&amp;gl=us' rel='nofollow'>http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Ht9oGjBmlkwJ:arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061226-8495.html+fcc+fines+rules+standards&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=4&amp;gl=us</a></p>
	<p>Seems like until the FCC&#8217;s collective feet are held to the fire in court and RELEASE a clear, concise, and public list of rules with outlined fines and punishments for violations, essentially all of the networks are &#8220;playing Monopoly without knowing the rules&#8221;. And plenty are taking advantage of the vagueness!</p>
	<p>Anyone know more than this? I&#8217;m curious&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: roula</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481733</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481733</guid>
					<description>ps - thanks, though, for considering sharing the link to the study if you ever find it, because i'm interested in that sort of thing.  however, if it's that much trouble, seriously don't worry about it and maybe i'll come across it eventually in my reading.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ps - thanks, though, for considering sharing the link to the study if you ever find it, because i&#8217;m interested in that sort of thing.  however, if it&#8217;s that much trouble, seriously don&#8217;t worry about it and maybe i&#8217;ll come across it eventually in my reading.
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		<title>by: roula</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481730</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481730</guid>
					<description>wtf kate, i didn't think you made it up, at all.  &quot;banana study&quot; just seemed like such a stupid, grasping insult, even for racism -- like, the only logical &quot;rationale&quot; for the choice of words is one that is so over-the-top racist -- that i thought i must have over-interpreted it, because who would be that unsubtle?  

so thanks for confirming the hypothesis i supplied (note i did supply it, i.e. was trying to work it out for myself), no thanks for the string of disses and no don't worry about supplying me with Links and Shit, i can amass a reading list like a big girl and while i'm always up for company and help, i doubt &quot;i misread your question and think you're an idiot&quot; would be much of either.  christ.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>wtf kate, i didn&#8217;t think you made it up, at all.  &#8220;banana study&#8221; just seemed like such a stupid, grasping insult, even for racism &#8212; like, the only logical &#8220;rationale&#8221; for the choice of words is one that is so over-the-top racist &#8212; that i thought i must have over-interpreted it, because who would be that unsubtle?  </p>
	<p>so thanks for confirming the hypothesis i supplied (note i did supply it, i.e. was trying to work it out for myself), no thanks for the string of disses and no don&#8217;t worry about supplying me with Links and Shit, i can amass a reading list like a big girl and while i&#8217;m always up for company and help, i doubt &#8220;i misread your question and think you&#8217;re an idiot&#8221; would be much of either.  christ.
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		<title>by: mythago</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481700</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481700</guid>
					<description>What bellatrys said. The &quot;kids these days don't know/care about racism&quot; wailing is self-indulgent horse poop.

History teachers ran out of time at the end of the year in *my* day, and I'm sure we weren't on the cutting edge of Semester Mismanagement Practices. We nonetheless knew about the history of slavery and what lynching was. (I'm pretty sure we weren't the *last* generation to learn that stuff, either.) The racists weren't racists because they were kids, or ignorant: they were snotty privileged white kids, end of story.

It is true that people who did not &lt;i&gt;live through&lt;/i&gt; the era of the Civil Rights movement will not have the direct, personal experience of how much that changed things; but that aside, I rather see that the younger generations are doing better than ours in awareness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What bellatrys said. The &#8220;kids these days don&#8217;t know/care about racism&#8221; wailing is self-indulgent horse poop.</p>
	<p>History teachers ran out of time at the end of the year in *my* day, and I&#8217;m sure we weren&#8217;t on the cutting edge of Semester Mismanagement Practices. We nonetheless knew about the history of slavery and what lynching was. (I&#8217;m pretty sure we weren&#8217;t the *last* generation to learn that stuff, either.) The racists weren&#8217;t racists because they were kids, or ignorant: they were snotty privileged white kids, end of story.</p>
	<p>It is true that people who did not <i>live through</i> the era of the Civil Rights movement will not have the direct, personal experience of how much that changed things; but that aside, I rather see that the younger generations are doing better than ours in awareness.
</p>
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		<title>by: kate</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481655</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481655</guid>
					<description>roula: &lt;em&gt;&quot;also, “banana study”? what does it mean to call something that? i mean, if it’s a generic “banana &amp;gt; monkey &amp;gt; racist slur by implication” thing i can see how it’s offensive, but in that case i’m missing why you would call something “banana” when trying to dismiss it as…what? shoddy work? unscientific? or is the phrase an insult in its own right? i googled and didn’t find.&lt;/em&gt;

Wow, I really didn't think I'd have to go into great detail to explain the racism explicit in naming a study about the tribulations of a racial marginalized area after anything associated with jungles or apes.  Where the hell did you grow up?

You won't find the study by googling. I research the topic of toxic waste in East St. Louis and came upon some local East St. Louis writers who noted the study, it was actually noted a few times. Whether or not the study is posted online available to a google search, I have no idea.  I'd doubt it as I'd hope Wash U. wouldn't be necessarily proud of that.

It took me hours of reading to run across it, if I have the time I'll see if I can find the reference again.  I'm sure that Wash U has it archived as well, although likely not online.

But thanks anyway for the insinuation that I made all that up.  If you have trouble believing how bad racism is in this society, I'd suggest you sit down and do some studying.  And no, I'm not going to provide with quick links and shit either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>roula: <em>&#8220;also, “banana study”? what does it mean to call something that? i mean, if it’s a generic “banana &gt; monkey &gt; racist slur by implication” thing i can see how it’s offensive, but in that case i’m missing why you would call something “banana” when trying to dismiss it as…what? shoddy work? unscientific? or is the phrase an insult in its own right? i googled and didn’t find.</em></p>
	<p>Wow, I really didn&#8217;t think I&#8217;d have to go into great detail to explain the racism explicit in naming a study about the tribulations of a racial marginalized area after anything associated with jungles or apes.  Where the hell did you grow up?</p>
	<p>You won&#8217;t find the study by googling. I research the topic of toxic waste in East St. Louis and came upon some local East St. Louis writers who noted the study, it was actually noted a few times. Whether or not the study is posted online available to a google search, I have no idea.  I&#8217;d doubt it as I&#8217;d hope Wash U. wouldn&#8217;t be necessarily proud of that.</p>
	<p>It took me hours of reading to run across it, if I have the time I&#8217;ll see if I can find the reference again.  I&#8217;m sure that Wash U has it archived as well, although likely not online.</p>
	<p>But thanks anyway for the insinuation that I made all that up.  If you have trouble believing how bad racism is in this society, I&#8217;d suggest you sit down and do some studying.  And no, I&#8217;m not going to provide with quick links and shit either.
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		<title>by: Margalis</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481578</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481578</guid>
					<description>I am for the suspension of the golf reporter, I just think losing her job is too severe. The point that the comment was not cut during broadcast is a good one. I would like to see the FCC do much less of what it does but I suppose to be consistent it should probably levy fines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am for the suspension of the golf reporter, I just think losing her job is too severe. The point that the comment was not cut during broadcast is a good one. I would like to see the FCC do much less of what it does but I suppose to be consistent it should probably levy fines.
</p>
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		<title>by: Phoenician in a time of Romans</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481535</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481535</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Also, more people need to read their 1984, and some of Orwell’s other works. Ignorance is cultivated, because control of the past is what all dominators seek above most things… &lt;/i&gt;

*sigh* I think you'll find that in the book (and, IMHO, in real life), control of the past is an instrumental goal towards controlling the present.  The Turkish history of the Armenian massacre springs to mind here.l

But I'd have to break the book out to provide actual quotes, and I can't be bothered.

&lt;i&gt;Oh PLEASE. So if I decide to nickname myself “Louise, the Fat White Middle-Aged Opinionated Bitch” that somehow negates what I’m saying???&lt;/i&gt;

Dunno.  Are we talking about the tribulations of being a supermodel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Also, more people need to read their 1984, and some of Orwell’s other works. Ignorance is cultivated, because control of the past is what all dominators seek above most things… </i></p>
	<p>*sigh* I think you&#8217;ll find that in the book (and, IMHO, in real life), control of the past is an instrumental goal towards controlling the present.  The Turkish history of the Armenian massacre springs to mind here.l</p>
	<p>But I&#8217;d have to break the book out to provide actual quotes, and I can&#8217;t be bothered.</p>
	<p><i>Oh PLEASE. So if I decide to nickname myself “Louise, the Fat White Middle-Aged Opinionated Bitch” that somehow negates what I’m saying???</i></p>
	<p>Dunno.  Are we talking about the tribulations of being a supermodel?
</p>
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		<title>by: kidlacan</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481507</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481507</guid>
					<description>wow, and after i reposted this link on my traffic-less blog it took less than  twelve hours for someone i know IRL to show up and start screeching that he NUH UH WAS NOT A RACIST, RACISM ISN'T REAL, WHY DO I ALWAYS CALL HIM A RACIST, WHY IS IT ALL ABOUT THE OUTRAGE??? oh, also, apparently, if racism *is* real, it's somehow the fault of people in the 70s and 80s who did consciousness-raising about racism.

figure that one out.

sigh. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>wow, and after i reposted this link on my traffic-less blog it took less than  twelve hours for someone i know IRL to show up and start screeching that he NUH UH WAS NOT A RACIST, RACISM ISN&#8217;T REAL, WHY DO I ALWAYS CALL HIM A RACIST, WHY IS IT ALL ABOUT THE OUTRAGE??? oh, also, apparently, if racism *is* real, it&#8217;s somehow the fault of people in the 70s and 80s who did consciousness-raising about racism.</p>
	<p>figure that one out.</p>
	<p>sigh.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mark Foxwell</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481452</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/13/filing-the-edges-off-of-racism/#comment-481452</guid>
					<description>I haven't thought it completely through yet, but I think that if someone asks for a quick bottom-line explanation of how racism fundamentally works in this country, the answer would be something like &quot;geographical apartheid accomplished mainly by private means.&quot; Though government policy--notably local government decisions about things like zoning, school funding, police procedure, etc, have a strong bearing on it.

And by &quot;geography&quot; I mean to generalize to a broader idea that has much to do with physical location but more generally with social space.

For instance, I'm pretty sure there must have been some African-American USAF officers somewhere in the Air Force when I was growing up (1965-1983) but I don't recall ever meeting a single one face to face. If they were in the ranks then they were on a completely different career track from my Dad, who was mainly an interceptor/fighter pilot. I seem to recall there was one African-American family in our housing bloc (think something like a townhouse row that would fit into the architechture of Burpelson AFB in &lt;i&gt;Dr. Strangelove&lt;/i&gt; built by the lowest bidder in upstate Maine) at Loring AFB) which presumably was all officer housing. But I don't think I knew that family by name. Perhaps their father was on a bomber crew, or over a tech support unit or some kind of administrator? When I went to the Catholic high school in Virginia I rode a bus with an African-American girl whose father was an officer; she kept very much to herself.

Social space, you see. Lots of black enlisted men and women, but I never recalled seeing any black faces over an officer's uniform at the Officer's Club, anywhere at any base I ever lived at. 

How did I square that with the belief that systematic discrimination was largely a thing of the past? Probably by grossly underestimating how many Americans our society deems &quot;black.&quot;

I remember observing once that a house in my cheap suburban neighborhood in Panama City, Fl, about 1978 or so (I was in jr high) had recently been occupied by a black family. And feeling great about it--hard evidence for my deep patriotic faith in the American way, post-Sixties reforms. One house, out of hundreds. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I haven&#8217;t thought it completely through yet, but I think that if someone asks for a quick bottom-line explanation of how racism fundamentally works in this country, the answer would be something like &#8220;geographical apartheid accomplished mainly by private means.&#8221; Though government policy&#8211;notably local government decisions about things like zoning, school funding, police procedure, etc, have a strong bearing on it.</p>
	<p>And by &#8220;geography&#8221; I mean to generalize to a broader idea that has much to do with physical location but more generally with social space.</p>
	<p>For instance, I&#8217;m pretty sure there must have been some African-American USAF officers somewhere in the Air Force when I was growing up (1965-1983) but I don&#8217;t recall ever meeting a single one face to face. If they were in the ranks then they were on a completely different career track from my Dad, who was mainly an interceptor/fighter pilot. I seem to recall there was one African-American family in our housing bloc (think something like a townhouse row that would fit into the architechture of Burpelson AFB in <i>Dr. Strangelove</i> built by the lowest bidder in upstate Maine) at Loring AFB) which presumably was all officer housing. But I don&#8217;t think I knew that family by name. Perhaps their father was on a bomber crew, or over a tech support unit or some kind of administrator? When I went to the Catholic high school in Virginia I rode a bus with an African-American girl whose father was an officer; she kept very much to herself.</p>
	<p>Social space, you see. Lots of black enlisted men and women, but I never recalled seeing any black faces over an officer&#8217;s uniform at the Officer&#8217;s Club, anywhere at any base I ever lived at. </p>
	<p>How did I square that with the belief that systematic discrimination was largely a thing of the past? Probably by grossly underestimating how many Americans our society deems &#8220;black.&#8221;</p>
	<p>I remember observing once that a house in my cheap suburban neighborhood in Panama City, Fl, about 1978 or so (I was in jr high) had recently been occupied by a black family. And feeling great about it&#8211;hard evidence for my deep patriotic faith in the American way, post-Sixties reforms. One house, out of hundreds.
</p>
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