And just maybe, a white southern man wouldn’t have the race and misogyny issues to contend with, taking energy away from the cause of undoing the massive damage done by the BushCo and their enablers.

I hope any president of mine WOULD BE contending with racism and sexism, for God’s sake. He or she had damned well better be working for change for EVERYONE (not just the middle class). The Rethugs aren’t going to cooperate with anyone, so it’s not like “electability” is going to get us anywhere.

I think the difference with “stupid white girls” like you and me, Sheesh, is that we’re teachable. We’re WILLING to learn. If we don’t get it, we ask; if the asking is pissing everyone else off we shut up and try to figure it out later.

There are people who just say, “Fuck you, that’s not how I meant it, so YOU’RE WRONG (about your own experience).” “It was just a joke, where’s your sense of humor?” “It was a compliment, what are you getting so mad about?” Et cetera.

If anything, that second argument ought to apply at least as much to Hillary as to Obama.

I don’t see Obama being any more likely to be killed in office than any other Democratic president.

You can’t understate the visceral, foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of Hillary out there especially among the militia/whitepower/McViegh sympathizers. I’d be surprised if there weren’t a few thousand or so right now sighting in their deer rifles just aching for a shot at her. Hell, if she gets the nomination, she might well be targeted before the general.

I just don’t see that level of hatred for Obama. Not that it isn’t out there; I just haven’t seen it around here. Even the most racist of acquaintances don’t get spit flying out of their red faces when they talk about him like they do with her. (Actually, I don’t think they really see him as black. He doesn’t fit their idea of “black man”, so he’s not one.)

Continuing the “most likely to be assassinated” theme: if a President Edwards actually proves to be effective at reining in corporate power, especially the energy industry, or threatened to bring real accountability and justice to the war profiteers, I’d almost expect a Blackwater/Dyncorp black op under contract to Exxon/KBR/GE. To me, that’d be scarier than a lone redneck with a good rifle.

Now, where’s that damned tinfoil? I need a new hat.

For that matter the third argument would also apply to Clinton- “we need a black president now; she’ll get her turn.” When really we don’t NEED a black president or a woman president, though both are long overdue; right now, what we really need is a truly progressive president with a strong record of fighting corporate interests on behalf of regular people. That would be Edwards.

Someone who everyone says can make nice with the Republicans just won’t cut it with me. It’s way too late for that bipartisan centrist stuff. Anyway, that’s what we had with Bill; in the 90s that may have been ok (it wasn’t), but it sure as hell isn’t now. We need a fighter, not another enabler/appeaser. If anything, history has shown us that you can’t cut deals with the GOP; they don’t compromise at all. You surely can’t expect to charm people who won’t listen to reason. Like Edwards has said, you have to fight them.

And just maybe, a white southern man wouldn’t have the race and misogyny issues to contend with, taking energy away from the cause of undoing the massive damage done by the BushCo and their enablers.

I hope y’all don’t take this the wrong way, but a president who has to stay in the middle to avoid seeming scary to the racists and misogynists is not going to be able to fight for real populist ideas.

I guess this is similar to the 1st argument, but I’m not talking about electability here. I think they’re all electable, compared to any of the freaks on the GOP side. I’m talking about what each will be able to accomplish once in office.

I dunno. Maybe that’s a distinction without a difference.

Does that reflect some latent racism/misogyny on my part? I hope not. I like to think that I’m evaluating candidates’ for their policies and records, as well as how effective they could be at turning their ideas into action. Or maybe deep down I’m just scared of black guys and women…

But then, I’m going to try to get in and see Obama at a townhall event at the Culinary Union hall tomorrow. Maybe he’ll win me over.

When people say he’ll be assassinated because he’s black, they are pretty much ignoring that people try to assassinate just about any president. That’s why they have so much protection!

These things *are* worth discussing. Furthermore, it seems like people are somewhat ignoring that Obama himself must have given some thought to racism when he decided to run. Shouldn’t his desire to take the risk override the point of him being a possible target for assassination?

But there are plenty of other reasons to choose this or that candidate to support. And yet, it’s certainly helped me to reevaluate Obama, reading people pointing out that he may be running on a conciliatory theme because he can’t afford to be an Angry Black Man. So even talking about how race impacts other things has helped me see him differently.

When people say he’ll be assassinated because he’s black, they are pretty much ignoring that people try to assassinate just about any president. That’s why they have so much protection!

These things *are* worth discussing. Furthermore, it seems like people are somewhat ignoring that Obama himself must have given some thought to racism when he decided to run. Shouldn’t his desire to take the risk override the point of him being a possible target for assassination?

But there are plenty of other reasons to choose this or that candidate to support. And yet, it’s certainly helped me to reevaluate Obama, reading people pointing out that he may be running on a conciliatory theme because he can’t afford to be an Angry Black Man. So even talking about how race impacts other things has helped me see him differently.

I guess that’s what bothers me about it. I think I’m pretty fair to everyone and try to have at least some knowledge about these things, but then something will happen (like the whole “jive” thing) and it’s back to “ahaha, stupid white girl” square one.

Not that I want to make it all about me either. It’s just…disheartening is all. I’ll never be able to memorize every stupid reference to how everyone’s been oppressed since the dawn of time and I’ll likely keep offending people no matter what. Sometimes you just wanna get pissed and throw up your hands and say “why the fuck do I even bother worrying about it”?

Unless what you’re saying is that people literally cannot avoid manifesting racist or sexist tendencies in evaluating minority/female candidates?

If that’s the case, what are we honestly supposed to do about it?

We can avoid it by looking at it and talking about it, and searching the crannies of our patriarchy-infested brains, Sheesh. Which (I think) is what Pam’s trying to bring up.

I know damned well I’m not Simon Pure. I’m not overtly racist, I’ll vote for Obama. But I’m not going to get all het up and defensive if someone asks me if I have any racism lurking inside.

If a man can say, WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, that it’s not sexist to say a woman just isn’t tough enough to be president, then I could certainly have my own blind spots. That’s the thing about blind spots–you can’t see them.