Take Clinton, for example. As a white man, she would be awfully stiff but still perhaps she’d make it. As a black man, she wouldn’t. The stereotypes around black men force black male politicians to be as friendly as possible or else face the accusations of being an “angry black man.” Clinton may be naturally friendlier than she seems, just covering it because she’s trying to downplay the “soft female” image, but as I see her she’s too serious and stiff. Then again, I’m not sure if I’m seeing her as stiff as women go or stiff as anyone goes.

Obama, on the other hand, is WAY too outgoing and friendly to make it as a female candidate of either race. He would marked as soft and idealistic and not taken seriously. But again, we don’t know if he’s suppressing any qualities that our society may find intimidating in a black man for the sake of his career (I was watching the replay of his concession speech in NH on the TV at work, and several of my coworkers found that speech TOO angry and were criticizing him for it), and we don’t know if as a woman he would be overcompensating for his friendliness and manifest a different personality. I also don’t know for sure if my conclusions about Obama are the way they are because I’m comparing him to black male stereotypes or male stereotypes or just plain everyone.

I doubt, however, that he would be a Presidential candidate at all as a women. His strength and popularity lies in his oratory skills. Women don’t get known for their incredible public speaking abilities, even when they have incredible speaking abilities.

I wonder if everyone’s candidate of choice would remain the same if a person with Clinton’s record, qualifications, and personality resided in a male body while Obama’s record, qualifications and personality resided in a female one.
Would a female Obama even be a blip on the radar? Would people take her desire to become president at all seriously?

I am going to ask this question of every person who insists they don’t take race/sex into consideration.

“Given that America’s current presidential election process is hopelessly screwed up, it’s hard to get too mad at any individual politician with presidential aspirations for being less than consistent in their voting and bill sponsoring patterns…
”
I disagree. The voting pattern and record of a certain candidate are the ONLY measure for a candidate. We all know campaigns are staged in almost every move, so let us be serious.

And sadly I have to agree with Gloria Steinem and Roseanne, barack Obama is an empty suit who would not have stood a chance if he was not bepenised. Should Hillary have had an outie instead of innie, there would have been no democratic race worth mentioning, because, guess what: she is the most qualified than the rest.

So yes, it is all about sexism. Nothing more.

Without defending Obama’s avoidance of certain politically charged votes, I must say that you can’t “bring about change” by not getting elected.

Given that America’s current presidential election process is hopelessly screwed up, it’s hard to get too mad at any individual politician with presidential aspirations for being less than consistent in their voting and bill sponsoring patterns…

OTOH, I wonder how he is to have a beer with?… [/snark]

Did he vote against it or something?

Even if he’d had the opportunity, there’s nothing in his record to suggest he wouldn’t have simply voted “present.”

He is a coward, and I am sick of him and his supporters attacking Hillary Clinton for taking stances on issues.

You don’t bring about “change” (puke) by failing to actually choose positions.

And yet you wouldn’t discourage his nomination on the basis of the real danger he and his supporters face at the hands of extremists. Nor should you. I will be proud to support Barak Obama if he is the nominee.

But you encourage women to knock Clinton out of the race of the issue of her electability. Obviously, enough women in NH didn’t agree that the move to make in the face of a constant barage of sexist attacks being aimed at her (which I believe she has handle with much grace under pressure) was to abandon her at the voting booth to send the message to the Christian Right that we’re shitting our pants over them.

Jesus. H. Christ.

So did Edwards. So did pretty much everyone who was in that position at the time. And by the looks of it, so would have Obama.

“Her campaign courted McClurkin and she has buddied up with other homophobes.”
I don’t quite recall her pandering to the homophobes, neither putting them on stage and refusing to cancel and event that knew was painful and betrayal to the LGBT .
“That sounds like you, soopermouse”

At the moment wen the Kerry proposal happened ( the one that Obama sabotaged), the situation was different tha it is in january 2008. At that point, before the “surge”, there was possible to achieve at least a partial withdrawal. That is what Obama stopped. So Yeah, I do hold him at least partially responsible for the current situation

She is also the one with a long career in politics, a better understanding of issues, and enough courage to stand up and be counted when it matters.

Like on authorizing the Iraq war.

…she is the one who didnt put homophobes on center stage.

Her campaign courted McClurkin and she has buddied up with other homophobes.

Voted for all the spending bills for the Iraq war despite claiming to be against said war.

We must exit Iraq, but not in a way that leaves behind a security vacuum filled with terrorism, chaos, ethnic cleansing and genocide that could engulf large swaths of the Middle East and endanger America. We have both moral and national security reasons to manage our exit in a responsible way…

sounds like Bush to me

That sounds like you, soopermouse, or did you not write this:

I will be very honest with you all : I dont think we will see a blitz withdrawal from Iraq regardless of who’s gonna win the elections. It’s not possible, unless you want to leave Al Quaeda and co a shitton of logistics and weapons, and throw the 60k Iraqis who worked for the US and allies to the wolves.

Expecting immediate withdrawal is naive. However, a staged withdrawal and a possible replacement of the US troops with UN troops is what I would support and seems like the best option.

I’m convinced that both Obama and Edwards can offer an inspiring campaign, giving either one of them a better chance of winning in an impossible-to-steal landslide.