(UPDATE: At 10:35, with 66% in, AP called it for Hillary. And the pundit class is talking about the gender gap and why women came out for Clinton in NH in larger numbers than Iowa where they went for Obama. And of course, they cited the “emotional moment” in the diner…argh.
UPDATE 2: What I deemed “The Tweety Effect” last night (”where the misogyny of a talking head in the MSM [in this case MSNBC’s Chris Matthews] so enrages a demographic that they go out and vote in a manner that will put egg on the face of the talking head”) definitely moved some numbers. Watch to see if “The Tweety Effect” catches on; Digby cited me. 
)
If any Pandagonians are in NH, please let us know how it's going out there. Polls closed at 8PM.
These grids are from the WaPo front page, (Also: check out WMUR's coverage from NH).
| N.H. Democratic Primary | ||
|---|---|---|
| Candidate | Votes | % |
 Hillary Clinton |
84,951 | 39 |
| Barack Obama | 78,521 | 36 |
| John Edwards | 36,566 | 17 |
| Bill Richardson | 9,968 | 5 |
| Other | 6,318 | 3 |
| Key: Winner Precincts: 79% | Updated: 11:07 PM ET | Source: AP |
||
11:06: Hillary is speaking now, and looks relieved and says she “found her own voice.” Not sure what that means exactly, though she does reference speaking from her heart (is this referring to her “emotional moment” in the diner?).
10:55: Obama is giving another of his rousing speeches, I haven’t heard a concession yet.
10:14: Edwards, still in 3rd, is speaking. He’s not getting out of the race, despite Tweety calling for his exit. Just received video:
9:40: It's obviously going to be very, very close.
9:30: Boy, Obama is closing in after Hillary Clinton holding a steady 4-5 point lead up until now. The college towns haven't reported in yet, and those are expected to go to Obama, though the high turnout of women has broken for Hillary Clinton. Very interesting.
It's has already been called for McCain (around 8:30) and Romney and Huckabee have called and conceded. Romney's campaign is in a world of hurt now. CNN has Fred Thompson at 2%; he only manages to fall into the pitiful "Other" designation here. What will the Freepers do?
| N.H. Republican Primary | ||
|---|---|---|
| Candidate | Votes | % |
| John McCain |
27,531 | 38 |
| Mitt Romney | 21,628 | 29 |
| Mike Huckabee | 8,758 | 12 |
| Rudy Giuliani | 6,446 | 9 |
| Other | 9,011 | 12 |
| Key: Winner Precincts: 40% | Updated: 9:25 PM ET | Source: AP |
||
Also, Rudy Giuliani pulled in a poor showing; he's at 9%, neck and neck with Ron Paul (8%). That's pathetic.
Will you be part of the process that determines who's nominated? I won't, since NC's primary is May 6. The list of primary dates is after the jump.
Here is the rest of the primary lineup.
JANUARY 2008 • January 3: Iowa (Winners: Obama, Huckabee)
• January 5: Wyoming (R) • January 8: New Hampshire (Winners: Clinton, McCain)
• January 15: Michigan
• January 19: Nevada, South Carolina (R)
• January 26: South Carolina (D)
• January 29: Florida
FEBRUARY 2008
• February 1: Maine (R)
• February 5: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho (D), Illinois, Kansas (D), Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico (D), New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah
• February 9: Louisiana, Kansas (R)
• February 10: Maine (D)
• February 12: District of Columbia, Maryland, Virginia
• February 19: Hawaii (D)*, Washington, Wisconsin
MARCH 2008
• March 4: Ohio, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont
• March 8: Wyoming (D)
• March 11: Mississippi
APRIL 2008
• April 22: Pennsylvania
MAY 2008
• May 6: Indiana, North Carolina
• May 13: Nebraska, West Virginia
• May 20: Kentucky, Oregon
• May 27: Idaho (R)
JUNE 2008
• June 3: Montana, New Mexico (R), South Dakota
96 Responses to “New Hampshire open thread - AP calls it for Hillary Clinton”
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It’s hard for me to enthusiastically plunge into the primaries. Not because i hate all of the candidates, but because-even though i have issues with all of them(especially Clinton and Richards)I like them all. Any one of them would be a thousand times better than that collection of fascists and lunatics running for the GOP.
Feb. 5. Need to get my address change submitted within the next 10 days. Probably head downtown tomorrow or thurs.
I’m just happy that McCain’s 38% only gets half the votes of Clinton’s 39%. If that’s the story of this election, I’m going to go from happy to thrilled.
vermin love supreme has 21 votes so far.
Seeing that Obama was so far head in the polls going it, this confirms the wide-spread belief that the Clintons own the Democratic Party.
IIRC, Michigan and Florida will not count on the Democratic side.
Only IA, NH, NV, and SC are allowed to have primaries or caucuses before Super Tuesday.
Or, there’s been a backlash of support for Clinton after the ridiculous and insulting media coverage of the last couple of days. I was reasonably neutral on the candidates until a day or two ago (like pablo, all three of the front-runners were acceptable to me), but the coverage had me seeing red. If I was American, and if I were voting in New Hampshire today, my vote would have edged over Hilary way as well.
Seeing that Obama was so far head in the polls going it, this confirms the wide-spread belief that the Clintons own the Democratic Party.
There are hardly any Democrats in New Hampshire.
I think this confirms the widespread belief that polls are not the best predictor of actual voting. Just ask President Dewey.
I’m just hoping Edwards doesn’t drop out yet.
Seriously, the polls were apparently wrong in predicting that independent voters were going to go nuts for McCain. Looks like a lot of the people who voted for McCain in 2000 voted for Clinton this time around. The low number of people taking Republican ballots in this primary is freaking out all the local pundits.
When I finally saw the clip all I could think was, “You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. They’re making a deal over that?!?” It was ridiculous.
It’s actually part of why I’m hoping Hillary holds on tonight. Fuck with the Villagers and their favored narratives.
“Seeing that Obama was so far head in the polls going it, this confirms the wide-spread belief that the Clintons own the Democratic Party.”
Absolutely!
All that talk about women supporting Clinton, or being ticked off by the Hillary Haters and voting for her in response, couldn’t possibly be true.
Nor is it credible that voters like both candidates and are having a hard time choosing between them.
And the idea that Democrats maybe don’t want the primary season to be over and the nomination determined after just 2 states vote is just too unlikely for words.
Yep: A Clinton Conspiracy it is!
There are hardly any Democrats in New Hampshire.
Except the Democrats that control the state legislature and won both seats in the US House in 2006.
Independents hold a plurality in NH.
That was my point, MAJeff, but I didn’t explain it clearly.
The NH electorate is ca. 45% independent, 35% Republican, 25% Democrat.
Clinton’s numbers aren’t the result of Democratic machine politics. The NH Democratic machine is pretty moribund.
NBC calls it for Clinton. Color me pretty disgusted.
Older women, and the fact that white people still lie in polls is the reason Clinton won.
NBC calls it for Clinton. Color me pretty disgusted.
Why? The upside of the open primary system is that independent voters can vote in any party primary.
The downside of the open primary system is that independent voters are usually centrists, so the results tend to favor the most centrist candidates.
Hence the Huckabee and Obama wins in Iowa, and the Clinton and McCain wins in NH.
People lying in polls wouldn’t be the reason for Clinton winning–they would be the reason for polls showing a misleading lead for Obama.
Obama was ahead by an average of 8.5%. Clinton won by 2%. That says the polls were pretty misleading.
Hence the Huckabee and Obama wins in Iowa, and the Clinton and McCain wins in NH.
I understand the why of it, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be a little sick about the outcome. I was hoping that the Dem primary season would be largely over tonight.
Really excited about Obama, and I really have a hard time seeing myself voting for Clinton in November.
Some bint on TV said something to the effect of “now women can finally relate to Clinton because she showed some emotion”.
Now I know why I don’t have custody of my own gun. I would no longer own a TV if I did.
Meanwhile, I found myself singing “here we are now, entertain us” when commentators were complaining about a pale, white-haired McCain lacking energy blah blah.
I broke down laughing when I got to the “A mullato, an Albino …” portion of the lyrics. Kurt Cobain as Nostradamus Reincarnate? Whooda thunk?
Yay! It’s messy and the narrative is screwed up. Let’s enjoy the ride of all these people getting out, in record numbers, to vote, and to vote, overwhelmingly, for Democrats. Democracy is ugly, so let’s enjoy the messiness.
All of our candidates have flaws. But, you know what? They aren’t anywhere close to as bad as the Republican choices. I mean, we have the option of voting for people who aren’t insane!! In these days, that’s actually not bad.
I’m looking forward to voting on the 5th. I’m not excited, but I’m looking forward to it.
I’m also getting annoyed with the nonsensical “analysis” I’m seeing tonight (local network, and drawing from national feeds). I’ve been enjoying not having cable this election season.
I don’t get why y’all wanted this nominating process to be over already. I, for one, haven’t voted yet - have you? Don’t you want your vote to matter?
As I said elsewhere, instant gratification is for video games - not for national politics.
As I also said elsewhere: Obama’s supporters better not take this as a funeral dirge for his campaign. Clinton was not only down, but getting kicked by everyone - and she toughed it out, and won tonight. I wouldn’t accept anything less from Obama.
Oh, god. Kellerman is on. TV off. We have AWFUL political analysts in Boston.
Oh, and that whole “tearing up” thing? All I could think of is William Hurt in Broadcast News.
Obama was ahead by an average of 8.5%. Clinton won by 2%. That says the polls were pretty misleading.
Yep. Polls aren’t votes.
Also, the fact that every news station here was showing people who were standing in line at the polling places saying “I don’t know which of the ballots I’m going to take” was a pretty clear indication, to me, that Clinton was going to do a lot better than expected. Obama voters just wouldn’t have been likely to be making a decision between him and McCain.
But you don’t yet understand that Kellerman won the primaries tonight! Both of them!
Gotta be all about him.
We have AWFUL political analysts in Boston.
No, all the good ones are on New England Cable News now.
But you don’t yet understand that Kellerman won the primaries tonight! Both of them!
Gotta be all about him.
Your gun, Kate? Save a bullet for Kellerman.
According to the exit polls, Obama won independents; Clinton won Democrats. In Iowa, Obama outperformed his overall numbers among independents, and Clinton outperformed her overall numbers among Democrats.
The problem for Obama isn’t that New Hampshire permits independents to vote - it’s that there weren’t enough of them voting for him.
Um, Jupiter - that’s where that idiot talked about “women can relate to SHillary because she gots tears now”. Hardly high quality commentary.
Meanwhile, I was VERY pleased to see some of my profs and formerly fellow students from Lowell’s work environment and sociology/community development departments who live across the border sharing the stage with Edwards.
Okay, what do people recommend as my strategy for the Mass. primary? Should I take the Republican ballot and vote for a candidate who is Not Mitt Romney, or should I take the Democratic ballot and give a vote of encouragement to either Kucinich or Richardson, depending which one is still in the race as of February 5?
I’ll be fine with voting for either Obama or Clinton (or Edwards, if he throws a Hail Mary pass somehow) in the general, but I don’t have a strong preference for the primary.
Thoughts? Best use of my protest vote?
Obama’s giving a speech on CNN (10:58 back east) about change and bringing the troops home when he’s elected president.
“There has never been anything false about hope”.
I hope not.
A question I asked over at Shakesville as well:
Is this the first time a woman has won a presidential primary?
Isn’t it the first time a woman’s run? (I mean in the big parties).
That’s a lot of money Romney’s spent to not win a caucus or primary so far, and in the state right next to Massachusetts where you’d think he’d have the stringest appeal.
Did I mention how happy I am about it?
Hillary’s talking about having had seven years of a president who stands up for all the big corporations, and it’s time for a president who will stand up “for all of you”.
The old guy on CNN was talking about her victory as if he was completely stunned.
Oh, dear.
Cara,
Democrats (that I can think of)
Shirley Chisholm
Carole Mosely-Braun
Republicans
Elizabeth Dole
(There was one in the ’20s, too, wasn’t there?)
That’s a lot of money Romney’s spent to not win a caucus or primary so far, and in the state right next to Massachusetts where you’d think he’d have the stringest appeal.
Hell, I think he spent more time in NH than in MA. Maybe that’s why he didn’t do so well….
You know more than I do, Jeff. None of them won the nominations so I didn’t think of them. Off to Google…
Hillary’s talking about having had seven years of a president who stands up for all the big corporations, and it’s time for a president who will stand up “for all of you”.
So she’s backing Obama or Edwards for president? Good to know.
I guess the lesson is… crying works? x_X
KO cited Tweety as the reason HIllary came out on top.
Giuliani’s one pct. point above RON PAUL!!?!!? In an Eastern state? BWAAAAAAAHA hahahahahaha…..
He’s toast. Eat shit and die, you crypto-fascist racist self-adoring piece of slime.
Not that I feel strongly about him or anything.
Dday had an interesting thought over at digby’s place:
Over at Talk Left:
Yes, they were asses; and about getting the media misogynists fired — good luck with that one…We have Imus as a precedent. All the talking heads in the MSM who appeared on his show for years while he bleated racist, homophobic and misogynistic comments, closed ranks and defended each other for appearing on the show when the “nappy headed hos” incident finally broke the straw on the camel’s back. They all wanted face time on the air, to sell their books, and to hell with the filth coming out of Imus’s mouth. The pundit class covers for one another.
I don’t get why y’all wanted this nominating process to be over already. I, for one, haven’t voted yet - have you? Don’t you want your vote to matter
The problem is that this is a weighted contest. Clinton is the establishment candidate, and even if there are a lot of people in the media with a weird personal vendetta against her, the media is ultimately going to be giving her the benefit of the doubt. Her losses will be easier to gloss over, her victories will count more. Is this reasonable? I doubt it, but I expect this will make it easy for people to freak out over this.
The weird thing here is the expectations game. Two weeks ago if you’d told me that Obama would be up by 7 points in Iowa and then down by 2-3 points in NH, I’d have been elated– it was not very long ago that NH was supposed to be Clinton’s unbeatable “firewall” state, so narrowing to a 2 point loss there is not so bad and sets up Obama really well for the next two primaries. Or, so I would have thought two weeks ago. The weird thing is though that the media just spent half a week doggedly insisting that Clinton was through and Obama was going to beat her in NH by 10 points, and so it’s going to be very easy to see spin that a small incidental victory is a massive unbeatable win for Clinton, coming from the same media herd that just spent 4 days beating Clinton up.
In objective terms Clinton hardly has the upper hand here. Her win in NH wasn’t as large as Obama’s in IA, Obama’s still very likely to win SC, and Nevada I think Obama has a great shot at if his organization can replicate the youth turnout from Iowa. The trick here is going to be to convince the media not to declare things over just because Clinton won primary #2.
I’m loving the complete desperation of the GOP field:
* Total GOP vote counts for any of the top tier are far less than the number of Dem votes for that top tier.
* Romney eating dirt again (as he blows his sons’ inheritance)
* McCain’s pondering, pathetic victory speech. He looks tired and ill (look at video from 2000 vs. today)
* the wheels coming off of Fred 1% Thompson’s campaign.
* Rudy making such a big splash in NH that he and Ron Paul are holding hands at 9%.
* Huckabee at third (he’ll easily take SC, but after that, the Dominionist should start swirling the bowl)
Oh, I just heard NBC’s Brian Williams bring up “The Bradley effect,” (aka the Wilder effect).
I’m not sure that it applies here, given the complicating factor of gender bias, and what we can now call “The Tweety Effect,” where the misogyny of a talking head in the MSM so enrages a demographic that they go out and vote in a manner that will put egg on the face of the talking head.Colorado February 5.
Wow, we actually get to primary before the decision is made for us.
I am still leaning Edwards.
PRO: He has the best health care plan.
PRO: He admitted he screwed up on the Iraq vote. (Many Democrats screwed the pooch on that one. Edwards, unlike Hillary, admits that was a major error. After 8 years of THE PRESIDENT WHO HAS MADE NO MISTAKES I find an admission of error refreshing, even when the error was so catastrophic.)
PRO:He is not a sitting Senator. (They loose in general elections.)
PRO: He seems to understand what has happened to the middle class in the last 20 years.
CON: He still seems befuddled and unable to respond to right wing smear attacks (the haircut and Amanda’s blog role).
I guess the lesson is crying doesn’t fucking matter, except to idiots who think in those terms. I also guess the fuckwads will think twice before calling her a girl again.
Here’s what I’ve found so far:
1872 and 1892: Victoria Chaflin Woodhull, Candidate for The Equal Rights Party in a number of States.
1884 and 1888 Belva Ann Bennet McNall Lockwood, Candidate for National Equal Rights Party. In 1878 she was the first female attorney to practice before the supreme court. Her running mate in 1884 was Marietta Lizzie Bell Stow.
1964 Senator Margaret Chase Smith, Republican member of the House of Representatives 1940-49 and Senator 1949-73. In 1964 she was Presidential candidate in the primary elections. She was defeated by Barry Goldwater in the party convention.
1972 Shirley Anita St. Hill Chisholm. The first female black member of the member of the House of Representatives 1968-82, and was candidate for the Democratic nomination of Presidential candidate at the Democratic Party Convention.
1972 Bella Savitzky Abzug. Stood as a candidate for the Democratic nomination as Presidential candidate but withdrew from the race before the party convent.
1972 Linda J. Osteen Jenhess. Candidate for the Socialist Worker’s Party.
1976 and 1980 Ellen McCormack. Ran in the Democratic Presidential Primary race in 1976 and was the first woman to receive matching funds. She appeared on the ballot in 18 states and received a total of 267.590 votes in the primaries and 22 votes from delegates at the Democratic National Convention, and engaged in a debate with President Jimmy Carter.
1984 Patricia Scott Schroeder. A congresswoman, she was Democratic candidate for the nomination of Presidential candidate in the primary elections in 1987 (June September) but withdrew from the race before the Party Convention. ,b>(Oh, WAIT–Didn’t Pat Schroeder CRY? I guess that’s the lesson).
Carole Moseley-Braun, 2004 (withdrew).
Pam,
Why aren’t you laying in bed recuperating?
Jeff, I found a bunch of women who’ve been presidential candidates in various parties clear back to 1872 but my post was eaten.
Why aren’t you laying in bed recuperating?
I am (I have a laptop, to enable the addiction). I actually went to the surgeon today and received clearance to drive again (but can’t do heavy lifting for a few more weeks). I go back to work on the 15th.
I am (I have a laptop, to enable the addiction). I actually went to the surgeon today and received clearance to drive again (but can’t do heavy lifting for a few more weeks). I go back to work on the 15th.
Just take the oxycodone, curl up, and feel warm and enjoy it! You don’t get to do that very often (at least I don’t)
MAJeff, thanks, you’ve cheered me up enormously.
Pam, egads! Yes, watching the Republican side is fun. They are tearing themselves apart. Watching Rudy slide to Ron Paul numbers isn’t all that comforting given he’s focusing on later states.
But watching Thompson fall and Romney start tilting after is a joy.
if obama wants to win this, he needs to tell all of his supporters who are registered as independents to register as democrats, because many of the primaries coming up will only allow you to vote if you’re registered for a party, and he has the most support from independents.
and:
giuliani has not felt this bad since 9/11.
zing!
MAJeff, thanks, you’ve cheered me up enormously.
My pleasure. Plus, Vermin Love Supreme currently has 34 votes! And it looks like Alan Keyes will only get about 70 more votes than my blog had hits yesterday. I’m just giggling my ass off. For the rest of the primary season, Keyes is my man!.
One thing I find interesting: Although Clinton beat Obama in the popular vote, they both get the same number of delegates (nine).
Go, Sen. Clinton!!!
I am really glad to be living in South Carolina as I will be part of the nominating process on Saturday, January 26.
I wish I could put some soap in the mouths of those misogynist talking heads in our mainstream media, starting with Tucker Carlson and Chris Matthews.
Obama and Hillary are both going to get 9 delegates from New Hampshire. It’s an effective tie, but the media won’t play it that way. The one thing I do know from watching the coverage on MSNBC - Chris Matthews loves the sound of his own voice, A LOT.
On to Michigan, a state that has black people in it. And, I’m guessing, more youth that will get out and vote. This primary season is just getting started.
Sigh. My state doesn’t get around to this primary thing until May. I strongly suspect the Democratic selection will be a fait accompli by then.
Michigan got stripped of its delegates, though, as punishment for moving up its primary. I don’t think the candidates are even campaigning there.
PRO:He is not a sitting Senator. (They loose in general elections.)
So if McCain is the Republican nominee and either Clinton or Obama is the Democratic nominee, then no one wins?
Looking again at the final numbers that Pam posted, the Republican consultants must be shitting themselves right about now. All of the Republicans combined garnered fewer votes than the second-place Democrat.
Looking again at the final numbers that Pam posted, the Republican consultants must be shitting themselves right about now. All of the Republicans combined garnered fewer votes than the second-place Democrat
Pam’s number’s weren’t final. (They were at the 40% mark for Rs and 79% mark for Ds.)
totals with 95%
The overall numbers are very favorable for Democrats, though.
Yep, Michigan has been stripped of its delegates for moving to Jan. 15. All candidates have vowed to not campaign in the state.
Even better, half of the candidates aren’t even on the ballot–Obama, Edwards, and Richardson have withdrawn from the primary. Next Tuesday, it’s either Hillary, Gravel, or Kucinich for Michigan Democrats.
I think the most interesting thing about this primary season is the fact taht electabilituy appears to plays no part in it (perhaps in reaction to what this factor did in ‘04, though ironically in tbhis case it would hurt the establishment canidate instead of helping her), I mean when you get right down to it this is one of the major reasons (besides the DLC, corporatist stuff, and what I can only descirbe as a Kerryesque anti-Charisma) I dislike Hillary as a canidate, I just can’t see her winning the gerneral elction, wheter due to unjustified bile or not see is the most dislike (non-adminsitration) politician in America, its like she has all of the Clinton admin.s flaws and none of its redeeming factors. Oh, and can someone please tell me why Clinton can play the “seasoned hand” card, I mean last time I checked she’s ionly been a Senator for 8 years, while Obama has been an lected official for nearly twice that!
Nono. Giuliani hasn’t felt this bad since the eve of 9/11.
Huh, until I clicked the link I thought that Vermin Love Supreme was a new nickname for Giuliani, because of his “issues” with ferrets. The low vote tally for VLS didn’t mesh with the percentage listed for the ferret hater, but I thought that maybe the tally was just an early return. Ah, well.
HUH. Charlie had told me the other day that Maine ran their primaries on separate days and I knew he was probably right, but still wasn’t sure he wasn’t pulling my leg… that’s the damnedest thing.
He’s away on biz, so I knew about McCain but didn’t know about Clinton until 4:55am this morning, as I spent last night watching Hamtaro DVDs with the kids.
Vermin, indeed!
I have never voted for either of the Clintons, and I never will. I refuse to vote for conservative Republicans, including ones that falsely claim to be Democrats.
It’s starting to look like I will vote Green in November.
And the idea that Democrats maybe don’t want the primary season to be over and the nomination determined after just 2 states vote is just too unlikely for words.
I know that was meant as snark, but that is too unlikely for words.
Why would NH Democrats base their vote on the belief that NH shouldn’t have so great a say in deciding the nominee?
I know this is a radical notion, but my guess is that the vote means that roughly 39% of the voters taking part in the NH Democratic primary thought that Hillary Clinton would, for a variety of reasons, be the best nominee, while roughly 36% of the voters in that primary thought that Barack Obama would make the best nominee.
The rest is (usually inane) commentary.
To paraphrase what I’ve seen others say about it: the commenters on certain liberal blogs were a hell of a lot more nasty and infuriating than anything Tweety said in regards to sexist attacks on Hillary. It’s rather amusing to see how increasingly nasty a lot of the Obama supporters are getting now that their self-anointed messiah lost one, though. Tee hee!
The next push from the Obama group seems to involve his supporters trying to convert Edwards supporters to their side and Obama himself changing his approach to a more populist one (he’s starting to sound more and more like Edwards). I wonder how well that’ll work out for him…are Edwards supporters ready to concede defeat so soon out of fear that Hillary will win?
Like I said it’s Chris Matthews fault
I’ll be the first to admit that my support of Clinton has been growing because of the “Tweety effect.” And Sheesh is right that just as much of that has come from liberal blogs as the MSM. Until recently I’ve been kind of wishing that we could have Hillary, Obama and Edwards as a presidential triumvirate. But slowly I’m moving towards Hillary.
I do think it’s exciting that my primary might mean something. And I think it would be even more awesome if we had a convention where the candidate was still up in the air. If Edwards drops out, do his delegates become superdelegates or get split evenly?
I’m just scared that a long primary could either mean that they continue to excite the population and get ground-swell or they could turn nasty and tear each other apart.
Off-thread, but I want to clarify that I don’t think of ferrets as vermin, but I thought Giuliani used that word to describe them on his radio show years ago.
If only this loss would discourage Huckabee. I wish.
The more I think about it the more interesting the “Tweety effect” becomes in my mind.
I had always assumed that a Obama/Hillary or Hillary/Obama ticket would simply awaken all the latent sexism/racism in the general population and pretty much guarantee a defeat. But I suppose it’s possible that the more sexism/racism the MSM exposed the more push-back and participation there would be from the left. An interesting concept to me.
Well the Clintons are just pissing me off. I already was ONLY going to vote for HIllary if it looked like we wouldn’t take a super majority in the house and senate. And I’m being driven ruther into that camp.
I’m not a tweety fan BUT I’m not going to let my disgust over a pundit change who I will vote for, it’s too important.
Pam’s number’s weren’t final. (They were at the 40% mark for Rs and 79% mark for Ds.)
Oh, fine, dash my hopes. ;-p
Still, definitely more votes cast for D’s than for R’s, overall.
Absolutely. That’s why all of this stuff about “voters sending a message” is so silly. There were about 500,000 voters all voting for their own reasons. To try and extrapolate from who won to what “The People” want is a bit much.
I’ve been seeing this effort by Obama supporters on other blogs (like Daily Kos), and from what I saw after the NH primary, both Obama and Clinton are starting to co-opt some of Edwards’ rhetoric.
I do lean toward Edwards; I don’t know if that makes me a “supporter” or not, because I do have some qualms about him and I have to think a lot about whether my concerns are outweighed by Edwards’ good qualities as a candidate. I would like to see him stay in the race as long as he can, because even if his chances are slim, the longer he stays in, the longer Obama and Clinton have to deal with his message. If he goes out too early, I suspect Obama and Clinton will say a few nice things, then go right back to campaigning as 1990s-style consensus Democrats.
Still, definitely more votes cast for D’s than for R’s, overall.
Significantly more. And it’s even better news when you consider the state’s party enrollment as listed above.
Found this interesting:
I have no idea what Tweety said, and I don’t really care. I’m still not voting for Clinton in the primaries because she’s way too far to the right for my tastes.
It’ll be novel to be able to vote when the nomination is still undecided, though.
Giuliani’s one pct. point above RON PAUL!!?!!? In an Eastern state? BWAAAAAAAHA hahahahahaha…
I like to think that somewhere Steve Gilliard is having a good laugh over that, too…
Yay! It’s messy and the narrative is screwed up. Let’s enjoy the ride of all these people getting out, in record numbers, to vote, and to vote, overwhelmingly, for Democrats. Democracy is ugly, so let’s enjoy the messiness.
All of our candidates have flaws. But, you know what? They aren’t anywhere close to as bad as the Republican choices. I mean, we have the option of voting for people who aren’t insane!! In these days, that’s actually not bad.
What Jeff said. I’m so excited about this presidential primary in a way that I was not in 2004 or 2000 where I felt like I had to hold my nose and vote (sorry, Al! But like Jimmy Carter, I believe Al Gore finds statesmanship a better home than politics). And it thrills me to see the Repugs circling the drain. People are so sick to death of Bush and his merry minions; the turnout for Dems vs. Repubs seems to prove this.
The thing about the Repubs possibly trying to steal any election (*coughcoughliketheydidin2004and2000*)is that people seem far more savvy and on their guard this time around. Either 1) this will mean the Repubs might not try as hard for fear of being found out or 2) if worst comes to worst, the fit will hit the shan in the most widespread, possibly revolutionary way.
Matthews: Well, I don’t know if they read the NY Post. I think the Hillary appeal has always been somewhat about her mix of toughness and sympathy for her. Let’s not forget, and I’ll be brutal, the reason she’s a US Senator, the reason she’s a candidate for President, the reason she may be a front runner, is that her husband messed around.
That’s how she got to be a Senator from New York. We keep forgetting it. She didn’t win it on her merit, she won because everybody felt, “My God, this woman stood up under humiliation, right? That’s what happened! That’s how it happened.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/09/chris-matthews-says-the-only-reason-hillary-became-a-senator-is-because-bill-messed-around/
That’s how she got to be a Senator from New York. We keep forgetting it. She didn’t win it on her merit, she won because everybody felt, “My God, this woman stood up under humiliation, right? That’s what happened! That’s how it happened.
Oh, geez. As far as I can see from a very distant perspective, she’s one of the toughest politicians in the US at present, well capable of punching at the level of the GOP kleptocrats.
She is handicapped not by having a vagina, but by people’s opinion of her having Teh Vagina. In a Parliamentry system she’d have been co-opted into the front rank of some party long ago, regardless of her gender or who her husband is.
I think she’s a cold, calculating pol. I don’t like what little I know of her policies much. I also respect her, and recognise her talent. Your country is lucky in that both her and Obama are running, both of whom seem to be well capable of doing the job (and, not coincidentally, both of who are not drawn from the Pasty Male Pool).
Sorry, Cly - I realise you were tongue-in-cheek
PiaToR–those were Matthews’ exact words.
You’re ki- you’re not kidding.
Fuck me sideways with a chainsaw.