Posted by Amanda Marcotte January 3, 2008 in Asides, Republicans
I’m guessing the Republican party elite is currently experiencing pangs of regret about all the Bible-thumping politicking right now. Turns out the plebes that were supposed to show up and vote for the guy who screamed “Jesus” the loudest are just a little too good at their assigned role.
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I’m sure many of us have already seen it, but Mr. Pollak’s take on this subject is great.
I’m not willing to get all schadenfreude-y over this. The American people have demonstrated the are willing to vote for crazy people.
The long knives are coming out against each other (Romney and McCain are starting to fight in NH) and whomever the Dems choose is going to face attacks that make the Swiftboaters look like Pinky. It’s going to be ugly, and Americans will vote for insane people. We shouldn’t write off Huckabee because of the wisdom of the American public, that’s for certain.
“We shouldn’t write off Huckabee because of the wisdom of the American public, that’s for certain.”
I can’t believe you put “wisdom” and “American public” in the same sentence.
Praise the lord
… and pass the superstition!
My television is staying off until after the NH primary. I’m already sick of political ads (southern NH is part of the Boston media area…I hate political ads)
The Goopers, as I see it, screwed up by not finding another Bush, 1999ish Bush that is, who, in Tom Frank’s phrasing, knows how to talk Christian and walk corporate. Unfortunately the designated standard bearers of plutocracy, like Rudy and Mitt, were unfortunately hopeless at talking about Jesus. It actually kinda baffles me, because spouting the old Christofascism isn’t hard to do even when you don’t believe in it in the slightest. Here look:
America must not forget its founding values, which are rooted in devotion to our Creator. Marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman, the lives of the unborn are precious, all morality comes from faith.
See, I just did it.
Frankly, I’m terrified right now. There’s no reason to feel schadenfreude, as there’s no guarantee that the GOP candidate will lose.
Obama wins it for your team.
Huckabee is the Pat Robertson of 2008. But this really hurts Romney. If I was a betting man, I’d bet money on McCain for the nomination now.
1,615 of 1,781 districts reporting
Obama 37.05
Edwards 30.09
Clinton 29.68
Obama has it in the bag, but wonder how the 2nd place race will turn out…a 3rd place finish would possibly finish either of them, especially Edwards.
I’m tickled about Huckabee, but cranky about Obama. The last thing this country needs is another empty suit snake-oil salesman who can’t get jack shit done because he’s too busy spouting rightwing talking points.
Maybe the chickens came home to roost in more ways than one.
Adieu Iowa.
Kind of OT, but I just commented over at Shakes that you and Melissa not only played a big role in turning me towards Edwards (which was especially hard after the firing of you business), but in making me care enough to contribute to a campaign for the first time ever. Thanks, Amanda.
Calling the whole race because of Iowa? Talk about buying the spin.
I think the republican establishment’s hope at this point is for a brokered convention, because even the famously gullible religious right could be swayed to stay home if the GOP unleashes its attack dogs on Huckabee.
Did I call the race? No. I don’t think Huckabee is gonna win it—other states are not as likely to be wowed by waving Bibles and looking kind of scary. But this is making the elites sweat bullets.
I’m loving the Huckabee win. Talk about Mitt Romney looking like a sucker. Huckabee (34%) cleaned up, embarrassing Mitt Romney (25%), who poured millions into the Hawkeye state only to see The Base desert him despite craven, pathetic gay-baiting and pandering of the worst order (you know he’s hit rock bottom when he sidles up to Bob Jones and Lou Sheldon).
You’re right, the GOP establishment is now going to do all it can to stop the Huck train (I’m watching his speech now with Chuck Norris beaming behind him). His candidacy is scaring the bejesus out of the GOP mainstream. They want fundie votes, not a fundie nominee. Plus Huckabee’s history of corruption has yet to break big. The MSM has been focusing on his damn rock guitar playing more than the man’s record.
Plus Huckabee’s history of corruption has yet to break big.
And that’s where we come in! Bwah hah hah, etc. But remember, everyone, mum’s the word until after Huckster takes the nomination. Until then, we pretend like we’re more afraid of him than of anyone in the GOP ever.
“The MSM has been focusing on his damn rock guitar playing more than the man’s record. ”
He plays bass, woman.
PS. I hope John Edwards can somehow pull second in NH, preferably after a Obama-Clinton murder suicide now that things are about to get nasty.
Hawkeye state
Grrrrr…as an ISU alum, I resent that nickname.
I think that Huckabee has a strong chance, but not just because of Iowa. I think Romney will get submarined through back chanels on his mormon connections no matter how much he plays the ecumenical conservative line. And Giuliani will get slamned on his gay rights support while Mayor of NYC if he starts showing serious competition.
I’m not overjoyed by any Democratic candidate in the top three. If I decide to put time and money into a campaign it will be in the rather nasty Hill-Sodrel rematch on the horizon.
Huckabee just hinted that, although his [wink, wink, nudge, nudge] convictions are what brought him to where he is now (a victor in Iowa), and his convictions are something he won’t compromise on, he won’t use said convictions to push “the others” away, but rather to pull everybody up…and make America a better country.
I’m telling you “others” all this so that you may start making arrangements and putting your affairs in order once President Huckabee starts making America a better country.
Except, of course, for females of reproductive age whom Gov. Huckabee does not consider capable of consent. You just carry on with whatever childish things you’re doing and don’t worry your pretty little heads about all this politics stuff.
/rant
Is it terrible to say I’m happy to see Hillary may hit third place? Really. She gets so Republican-lite sometimes, it makes my skin crawl.
Obama’s been disappointing lately, but I’m still happier to see him up there than Hillary. Plus, Edwards in second gives me some hope he can really pull it off.
Please Santa. Please, please, please. I know Christmas is over, but I still really want a democratic candidate I can feel good about!
As for Huckabee, if he gets the nomination, tons of sane conservatives will jump ship. Or they’ll float a third party. The corporate end of the party will never put up with him.
Bring on NH. Look at this roasting of Multiple-Choice Mitt by the fundies:
That’s because even though spouting it is easy, there has to be some background that makes it at least semi-believable coming out.
Bush had been married to the same woman with no known affairs. He’d gotten over his youthful transgressions with booze and coke (allegedly) by finding God for help, yadda yadda. There wasn’t anything in his background that contradicted him when he gave standard Republican talking points about homosexuality and race and immigration and abortion. So the God-babble was mostly consistent.
Guliani and Romney have no such claim. Both have a record of supporting liberal positions when it comes to gays, Guliani has his personal record of infidelity, and Romney is not (to Fundie minds) a Christian anyway. As soon as they start spouting it off it’s trivial to point out they don’t really believe it based on their own past actions.
Reading the wingnuts blogs right now is SWEEEEEEET!
“He plays bass, woman.”
Yes he does. An electric bass guitar. Which can be considered a “damn rock guitar”. And you retorted to Pam on a feminist blog. Mere days after Pam had gallbladder surgery.
Proud of yourself?…
Point taken on the bass, comment, lol. And it still manage to be more newsworthy than Huck’s horrid record of corruption in Arkansas.
Not to defend the shit-chucking neanderthal Huckabee, but I can’t think of any politician from Arkansas who isn’t corrupt.
Huckabee will destroy the modern Republican party, shattering the racist Southern Strategy, and splitting the corporatist Republicans from their right wing Christians they have conned for so long.
You can’t fool all the people all the time.
Now let’s stop the phony war on terror, phony war on drugs, and get universal health care.
Don’t equal rights for women and minorities go without saying?
The nice thing is that tonight was a record turnout.
Sarah in Chicago and I were talking earlier tonight. Minnesota also uses a caucus system, and some places here in New England sometimes still use the old Town Meeting as a decision for making mechanisms. There’s something I like about neighbors getting together to discuss their future collectively. Sure, it’s about organization and horsetrading, but a lot of these things are about the structure and rules for the type of meeting. I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing more places going to caucuses and away from primaries. We can vote later. Let’s collectively deliberate as well.
[/idealist]
Ah, here’s a headline for desperate Freepi if Fred drops out:
Keyes, in Le Mars, says he’s ‘complete conservative’ in GOP race.
eep…i have relatives from LeMars…that part of the state frightens me.
Waitwaitwait . . . Alan Keyes has a womb?
Oh yeah, if we have a President Huckabee, then I will probably give up on this country. But I think any Democrat can wipe the floor with him. He’s the one Republican who can’t depend on full scale media support.
Don’t worry too much about a Huckabee national win: Huck’s first place Republican win in Idaho only managed to gather 1/2 the votes (32,000), of Hillary’s Democratic third place (67,000).
And, I’ve read that Idaho usually trends Republican.
Boo hoo, Hillary! Not thrilled about Obama, but it’s nice to see triangulating Hill coming in a distant third place.
Waitwaitwait . . . Alan Keyes has a womb?
Breaking news, huh? At least we know it isn’t a gay womb, otherwise he’d have to kick it out of the house.
Keyes is a closeted man if I’ve ever seen one. Anyone who is that obsessed with hating gays is probably secretly one themselves. Protesting too much, and all that.
All our womb is belong to Keyes.
Well, he said “our womb”– so maybe, it’s like the collective womb, where all embryos go after conception. It’s not like wombs are part of the bodies of individual women after all.
Amanda, I hope you’re right that even Hillary can mop the floor with the Huck. However, I listened to him talk and he sounds a lot like a pale, ignorant Barack Obama.
Which, if I need to say so, means we may be utterly screwed. ‘We’, here, means ‘womb-bearing Americans, aside from Alan Keyes’.
Oh shit, I just heard him refer to three separate Christian dogwhistles in his Larry King interview. He’s dangerous as hell.
Someone teach me how to googlebomb, but quick.
PhoenixRising: Huckabee or Obama?
I just have to say that Clinton puts me in a difficult position. I feel the need to defend her because she garners so much hate for all the wrong reasons, and she seems to be a dumping ground for everyone’s misogyny. But damn it, I hated Bill Clinton, I hated how his State Department torpedoed environmental accords through negotiating in bad faith. I hated the way our police forces responded to Seattle, Philly and LA and trained the thugs who would go on to use agent provocateurs at Genoa. I hated how he moved the party almost to the right of Nixon. And I hate that all the same people and groups are on Senator Clinton’s coattails now. Every time she tries to pull that good old days crap, I just want to hurl.
Ah-
Southern Fundie vs. Black (partly) dude from Illinois with a middle name of Hussein and the support of Oprah = CRIPPLE FIGHT!
It’s interesting that the hope thing, the new-generation thing, and the getting past partisanship thing — all the Obama motifs — were all part of the Bill Clinton campaign in 1992. And the multicultural America thing was a big part of Michael Dukakis ‘88.
The problem with the post-partisanship is that it imagines a politics “above” partisanship, a politics without any conflicting self-interests.
Let’s be honest, the corporate CEO class, the banking and financial services sector, etc. have very little in common–be it in terms of their lifestyle or their economic interests–with the rest of us. Yet, the folks pushing the politics without conflict the hardest seem to be those that see the economic interests of the CEO and financier classes as exactly the same as the economic interests of the nation.
Politics without conflict is hegemonic domination.
I definitely agree with your suspicion, but I think I’d add a step. I might say that this lingo of “post-partisanship” presumes that partisanship is a kind of false-consciousness version of self-interest, so that getting beyond partisanship is seen as being an end-run back to self-interest (in the spirit of “what works,” “best practices,” “getting things done”). But then it seems to presume that competing interests can always be resolved, either through bargaining or through consensus, and I don’t have much faith that that would actually work. That’s why I worry that the results of “post-partisanship” would end up being hard to distinguish from the results of “hegemonic domination.”
Why do so many of you think Huckabee can’t win? George W won, though things were likely rigged both times. I think the Bush/Richards gubernatorial election was rigged. If Huckabee gets the nomination and gets the right backing, he’ll win. I realize it will be a disaster for this country without even considering what kind of court nominees we will get, but don’t sell the Dominionists short.
The Dominionists have already founded a private army of occupation, Blackwater, and even have a program to gain nuclear weapons. What do you think the hardcore fundie push at the Air Force Academy is about? The fundies have been working for almost twenty years now to take over the USAF. They want their own “General Ripper” in the air force.
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I believe Oswald alone shot Kennedy, I believe we went to the moon, I believe that the 19 hijackers were responisible for the events of 9/11. But as surely as all these things are true, so is it true that the USA is being destroyed by an enemy within. The Dominionists do not much hide what they do: Listen to James Dobson replaying “National Day of Prayer” excerpts on your local radio. Read up on what’s going on at the Air Force Academy.
It didn’t take long for the Base to come out in full force after Obama’s win. Look at this mind-blowing bigoted post over in Freeperland. Expect the same to be repeated in variations over at Faux News ad nauseum.
Is Hussein Obama the weakest Dem for the General election?
Iowa Caucus ^ | January 3, 2008 | nwrep
Posted on 01/03/2008 9:07:11 PM PST by nwrep
Did the weakest Dem candidate for the general election won tonight? I think so.
By sending forth Hussein Osama out of Iowa, Democrats have unwittingly weakened their general election prospects.
Hussein’s exotic mixture of radical liberalism, Kwanzaa Socialism, antipathy towards the unborn, and weakness against his jihadi brethren will all come back to destroy him against almost any Republican opponent, even the snake-grope from Hope.
I think we as Republicans should be celebrating tonight at the coronation of Hussein, in whose presence millions of Democrat women, from elementary school teachers to journalism majors to law school grads to dykes on bikes will go weak in their knees.
As defenders of this great Republic, and of the pinnacle of Western civilization that it represents, we should all come together tonight and agree on a common strategy that will keep the White House from becoming a madrassa.
God Bless America, Land of the Free.
Politics without conflict is hegemonic domination.
This episode of ‘It Takes a Sociologist’ was brought to you by the Iowa Democratic Party and all its credulous customers, I mean participants, I mean caucus-goers!
Jeff wins the thread. And CBrach, I was referring to Huck but damn if the replay of Obama didn’t fire all the same rockets. Did someone tell him he sounded just like Dr King as a young child?
We are so screwed.
This episode of ‘It Takes a Sociologist’ was brought to you by the Iowa Democratic Party and all its credulous customers, I mean participants, I mean caucus-goers!
Was my Gramsci showing?
““The MSM has been focusing on his damn rock guitar playing more than the man’s record. ”
He plays bass, woman.”
LOL, yeah, that’s been bugging me too. It’s a BASS, dammit.
Y’all may think Huckabee is scary looking (?), but he was VERY personable last night on the Jay Leno show (as I blogged), and has a very likable screen persona. Just what one would expect from a successful preacher AND career politician.
I’d worry. Hell, I AM worrying.`
Jezus krist, bacopa, thanks, I didn’t want to sleep tonight anyway.
The Air Force Academy/Xianist thing always confused me, but now it makes total sense. {contemplates sleeping pills, for ambiguous reasons}
I think we as Republicans should be celebrating tonight at the coronation of Hussein, in whose presence millions of Democrat women, from elementary school teachers to journalism majors to law school grads to dykes on bikes will go weak in their knees.
The disturbing thing here is that it’s hefty doses of both prima facie sexism, and the myth of the black man as a violator of Pure Women ™. In one sentence, they manage to hit the bigot trifecta: racism, sexism, homophobia. Incredible.
I think we as Republicans should be celebrating tonight at the coronation of Hussein, in whose presence millions of Democrat women, from elementary school teachers to journalism majors to law school grads to dykes on bikes will go weak in their knees.
Haw haw haw - Stuppid DemoCRAPS - dem womenz iz all going to vote for Hu - um, wait a minute…
(What this thread really needs is a mp3 from _Blazing Saddles_ - “Can’t you see this man is a neh?!?”)
Pam & Anna - agreed. I would also add that the right’s hatred of all things Clinton is based in part on envy of his considerable sexual charisma. Obama is also a handsome man with a charming manner (and oh no he’s black! All the white women will be overcome with the desire to be ravished! Even the lesbians!) The Repub/fundie attitude toward sexuality is that it should be kept tightly controlled. Hence, perfectly respectable Repub adultery that everyone lies about and tries to cover up is ok, but licentious, everyone’s-doing-it-and-having-fun, Democratic sex is pure evil.
Breaking news, huh? At least we know it isn’t a gay womb, otherwise he’d have to kick it out of the house.
No shit, eh?
Glad your irony meter survived your recent medical experience intact!
All our womb is belong to Keyes.
You are a cunning linguist.
the collective womb
“The Matrix: Revenge of the Uteri.”
I just have to say that Clinton puts me in a difficult position. I feel the need to defend her because she garners so much hate for all the wrong reasons, and she seems to be a dumping ground for everyone’s misogyny. But damn it, I hated Bill Clinton, I hated how his State Department torpedoed environmental accords through negotiating in bad faith. … … I hated how he moved the party almost to the right of Nixon.
CBrachy:
You’re right, Clinton’s pretty bad. But, I’m such a cynic that I have to say this one more time, basically we have a shit vs. radioactive toxic waste type situation here. Whoever the Democrats nominate, they’ll be shit. Whoever the Republicans nominate, they will be radioactive toxic waste. Shit is better than radioactive toxic waste.
So go ahead, keep feeling ambivalent about defending Clinton against some of the worst people in our nation. But please keep defending her against them and their bizzarre, scurrilous, poisonous nonsense. Find ways to show her attackers up for the deeply poisonous idiots they are. In my mind, at least, it’s worth it, if only because you will realize more accurately who is a completely horrible, amoral toady, and because you will discover better ways to attack said toadies.
That’s my take anyhow.
I hear they haven’t exactly been idle in the Army and Navy, either… Seems to me like they’ve been slowly taking over significant portions of all branches of the Armed Forces.
My name is Louise, and I approve this message…
MA Jeff, at ($ROMNEY!) least (HUCKABEE!) it’s ($$ROMNEY!) only (OBAMA!) a ($$$ROMNEY!) few (MCCAIN!) days ($$$$ROMNEY!) until (CLINTON!) NH. 4 more ($$$$$ROMNEY!) days and (EDWARDS!)the commercials ($$$$$$ROMNEY!) migrate like the geese…
Oh yeah, and Fred Thompson might still run… if he’s not too busy…
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ROMNEY!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A couple of today’s fun post-Iowa items:
Howie Carr in the Boston Herald: Romney ego trips and falls flat in Iowa.
* Thomas Burr, Salt Lake City Trib: Romney’s big investment in Iowa turns bitter.Y’all may think Huckabee is scary looking (?), but he was VERY personable last night on the Jay Leno show (as I blogged), and has a very likable screen persona. Just what one would expect from a successful preacher AND career politician.
Mike Huckabee = Nehemiah Scudder?
Too obscure?
Seriously, as an atheist, Huckabee is the candidate that worries me most. Pleasant in public, faux-self affacing, a touch of “cool” with the bass. All of this masking a serious set of fundamentalist beliefs.
We discount him at our peril.
Random caucus commentary
Dem - Clearly a boost for Obama. Edwards is still alive, but it is questionable whether he can raise the money to continue to compete. Hillary did not do badly, but she didn’t do well, either. She can spin it however she wants, but third place was a blow to her campaign. She is no longer “inevitable.”
My prediction: Barring an Obama gaffe, he is the nominee. Edwards doesn’t have the money and he can’t count on SC this time. I doubt Hillary will be able to recover from this setback. Everyone else: Go home.
GOP - The story isn’t so much that Huckabee won as Romney lost. Fortunately for Romney, NH and MI are coming up shortly, which could make him the frontrunner again. Because of Romney’s disappointing performance, I would say the real winner is John McCain. He finished in a practical tie for third with Thompson, despite McCain’s famous disdain for the Hawkeye state. Romney’s disappointing showing and Giuliani’s pathetic showing may cause Republican voters to give McCain a second look.
My prediction: Rudy and Fred are gone after NH. NH and MI will be battles between Romney and McCain for who will become the anti-Huckabee candidate. After that, it’s a fight for the nomination.
From Atrios…
The ‘media’ are fickle friends. Like bar flies, they go where they can get free drinks and a little loving. If Huckabee can go the distance, you will find great support from ‘the media’ for his campaign. Well, and given Huckabee’s past and the lobbyists and other moneychangers that he’s dealt favors for and ‘quid pro quo’, he is very much a sleazy political player who knows what is expected when someone gives him money; he knows how to play the game, and play the suckers… I still marvel at his Freudian moment trying to slam Romney. I got goosebumps…
Did anyone see the look on Tweety’s face last night when he realized Huckabee was going to take Iowa? You could see him trying to switch gears so quickly and let everyone watching MSNBC know that Huckabee isn’t electable (”please, please please don’t let him be elected!”) you’d have expected him to start talking up what an awesome, empowering candidate Hillary Clinton is at any moment.
I think there’s a chance the party could split over this, and it wouldn’t upset me a bit.
I’m glad that Edwards managed to pull in second instead of third. If nothing else, maybe Obama will make him the VP candidate.
And I’m VERY scared of the prospect of another Rethug in the White House. Because for one thing, the Dem candidate will be Swiftboated like crazy, for another, it is dangerously easy for the Rethugs to rig things, and for yet another, it also seems dangerously easy for the Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
If I am to believe my own local press (the Santa Rosa Press-Democrat, a NYT-owned paper) California is deemed to be a strongly pro-Clinton state at least among our Dems. Based on conversation over the past 4 years with various people here, in the strongly Dem county of Sonoma and other North Bay-Sacramento area people, Hillary is indeed favored by the party insiders, but not so much by random people. And California has moved its Presidential-year primaries up to February, Super Tuesday, precisely to make us more relevant.
Here in Sonoma county at any rate, the Dems are the Establishment–we include some quite progressive people both grassroots and at the elected official level (eg, my Representative, Lynn Woolsey, of the Progressive Caucus) but also some very DLC-realtor mafia types.
So I figure that barring outright disaster in the primaries and caucuses between now and then, Clinton will hold out at least until then.
If Obama can maintain his lead and Edwards stay in the running, then well and good; I will vote for Edwards. If Edwards drops out, at least I can vote for Obama.
Or if Hillary drops out before then, then I expect Edwards will surely still be in–so much the better. But I expect her to hang on till Super Tuesday no matter what happens.
It looks like I ought to get in touch with my local Edwards campaign.
There is also a competitor for an Assembly district in Yolo County I know, as one of Natasha’s allies back then 4 years ago, as well as someone else I know running for a termed-out Assembly seat here in Sonoma County. I really ought to get involved.
But I’m working 56-hour weeks right now, and don’t have any of the money from it yet.
Anyway the one in Yolo is running without the blessing of the local Dem establishment–but for Edwards.
From the unusually relevant state of California:
Out-of-the-loop Mark
HEY WAYWARD!
I have to thank you - go over to my blog and read why.
http://orestia.blogspot.com
MAJeff: Hawkeye state
Grrrrr…as an ISU alum, I resent that nickname.
I hear ya’. Most of my friends are/were Cyclones, but my daughter, the Baby Hippie Woman, is a student at Iowa. Me? Mom just keeps her mouth shut.
I wouldn’t peg Huckabee as the second coming of Bush. Bush ran as a moderate in 2000.
(Sorry Amanda, I wasn’t referring to you calling the whole campaign, but to Sheesh and some of the other early commenters. Although the media plays the primaries as a horserace and tries to make them into one as much as possible, it’s not clear that opinions in one state do all that much to influence opinions in other states except insofar as the pundits make it so.)
More schadenfreude.
Could this be a bigger disaster for Republican establishment? John O’Sullivan bemoans the possibility of a McCain vs. Huckabee showdown.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzkzYjhhODAzNGM1MjA2MjA0NzZhNjgwMDc3MmQ4Y2I=
The Republican Party is falling apart. Fred, Rudy, and Mitt are the establishment props who the voters are rejecting.
With Mike Huckabee, the inmates have finally taken over the asylum. The establishment doesn’t like Huckabee because Huckabee isn’t really a Republican. Look at his record and you’ll see that he’s yet another old-time Dixiecrat who now has an “R” by his name. The rubes aren’t supposed to vote for one of their own!
The establishment hatred of McCain is even more interesting. McCain is by far the strongest Republican in the general election. McCain has arguably the most conservative voting record of all the major candidates. So, what’s wrong with McCain?
O’Sullivan put it best:
“I argued yesterday that McCain’s victory would be a disaster for conservatives. He owes us nothing and has shown contempt for our opinions.” [Emphasis Mine]
Translation: McCain’s victory would be a disaster for conservative power brokers if he can win the nomination without them.
Thus the establishment Republicans are in a bind. A Huckabee nomination means a likely loss in the general. Furthermore, it will mean that the party is no longer theirs. A McCain nomination means a possible win in the general, but a win that they had little to do with.
If Romney continues his collapse, look for Huckabee to become the new “establishment” candidate in order to stop McCain. Then look for the establishment to leave him hanging out to dry in the general, proving to the social conservatives that their candidates are simply not electable. This is doubly true if Hillary can come back to win the Democratic nomination. While the Huckster is a “Dixiecrat”, Hillary could just as easily be considered a “Rockefeller Republican.” (socially liberal, economically moderate)
The thought of the Republican establishment sabotaging their own candidate to maintain power just makes me smile.
Not too obscure. (Robert Heinlein’s character who led a fundie sweep into the White House and resulted in remaking the US into a theocracy for a significant period of time).
I don’t think Huckabee counts as a Scudder. But assuming he loses at any point, but especially if we get a visionary Democratic sweep, and particularly if the Republican hierarchy has to explicitly renounce the fundies - these folks aren’t going away. They are not going to say “Hey, extreme fundamentalism doesn’t have a place in American politics, let’s lighten up.” They are going to go deeper into their bunker mentality, say “We just had the wrong guy and we handled the marketing wrong” and make damn sure that their next guy is even more doctrinally pure and charismatically electable.
The next candidate coming from the Religious Right (whether via the Republicans or as a third party, which seems inevitable eventually) will be far more Scudder-like. A Huckabee loss will be no reason to relax either.
Well I’m glad Edwards atleast came in second. I’m sending in more money for his campaign today AND I’m expecting the phone to ring to ask if I can come up to help in NH. (They’ve called me many times before).
The last few weeks of Kucinch pissed me off (I was supporting 3-4 candidates, he was one).
What was really neat about last night is that my 12 year old sat down with us in front of the tv and tried to make sense of what he was seeing - why what they were doing in Iowa is different than a primary.
I will be saying this though, whenever and where ever I read Huckabee’s name. He is a Dominionist.
If someone doesn’t know what that is or what they believe, check out the links at the bottom of this post
http://orestia.blogspot.com/2007/11/its-offical-dominionists-for-huckabee.html
It includes links to Mainstram Baptist posts on Huckabee. Dr. Bruce Prescott is a Baptist minister and the President of the Oklahoma Chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
What an interesting morning to wake up to.
Robert Novakula, in the morning’s Sun-Times is already spinning Huckster’s win as a good thing for McCain.
I’m happy Hillary lost just b/c the “inevitable” has now dropped from her name, and I never wanted to vote for her. She did all the “right” things to position herself for the presidential election, and by “right” I mean Right: voting for the war to show she’s not soft b/c she’s a woman. Proposing flag burning bans. Etc. She pushed the progressives away with her voting and triangulating, while the conservatives never really bought her “moderate” act and believe she’ll go wildly liberal once elected.
Barack at least gives the impression of sincerity, even if he does vote “present” more than I’d like.
I’m pulling for Edwards now. Come on, Johnny!
“I don’t think Huckabee counts as a Scudder. But assuming he loses at any point, but especially if we get a visionary Democratic sweep, and particularly if the Republican hierarchy has to explicitly renounce the fundies - these folks aren’t going away. They are not going to say “Hey, extreme fundamentalism doesn’t have a place in American politics, let’s lighten up.” They are going to go deeper into their bunker mentality, say “We just had the wrong guy and we handled the marketing wrong” and make damn sure that their next guy is even more doctrinally pure and charismatically electable.”
Those folks won’t be happy until they achieve Gilead. If the Huckster isn’t the one, then they’ll keep looking until they find the right man (and it HAS to be a man).
The other alarming thing about the fundnuts is their commitment to the idea that the end they seek DOES justify any means - lying, cheating, stealing, assassinations, military coup, martial law, all are fair game because god will forgive those minor transgressions for the sake of getting his American theocracy…
The other alarming thing about the fundnuts is their commitment to the idea that the end they seek DOES justify any means - lying, cheating, stealing, assassinations, military coup, martial law, all are fair game because god will forgive those minor transgressions for the sake of getting his American theocracy…
Mike, that alarms me about the fundies more than anything else. I’m by no means a conspiracy theorist, but I do worry about assassinations, military coup and martial law because these folks are ruthless and scary.
Not to mention, Bush was an insider, Huckabee is an outsider running an insurgent campaign. He really has very little in common with Bush.
I’m very happy Hillary lost. I want the Clintons to leave national politics along with the Bushes this year.
Somehow, I’m thinking if Obama wins the nomination, he’s going to NEED Edwards to hold the moral tiller and give him some working-class cred.
I liked Jay Leno’s joke about Iowans lining up to meet a black man in person for the first time …
Anyway, if SHillary wins the nomination, I get the gut feeling that the President Emeritus Clinton will make a strong case for Edwards as veep, for pretty much the same sort of populist cred reasons.
I’m with MAJeff - already sick of the ads. At least NH can’t lay claim to being a “republican” state after they repudiated Bush last time around. Fiscally conservative, yes. Republican, maybe. Not enough guano around up there to fertilize the Huckleberry Huckster campaign.
Not enough for a psuedo-populist like Edwards, either.
I’m with MAJeff - already sick of the ads. At least NH can’t lay claim to being a “republican” state after they repudiated Bush last time around. Fiscally conservative, yes. Republican, maybe.
In a way, I love the most recent McCain ad, where they pull the NH newspapers Romney anti-endorsements to make the ad. It’s kind of funny actually. The newspapers said, “Just don’t vote for Romney.”
Willard ain’t feeling the love.
“eriously, as an atheist, Huckabee is the candidate that worries me most. Pleasant in public, faux-self affacing, a touch of “cool” with the bass. All of this masking a serious set of fundamentalist beliefs.
We discount him at our peril.”
Seconded. As an atheist and a feminist, this guy is pretty much the embodiment of everything wrong in this country. I fully expect him to be elected. Americans only vote for those who are the worst for them.
Those who are fretting about the Evangelical infiltration of the military might be interested in [url=http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2006/12/13/weinstein/]this article[/url] about an old JAG lawyer who’s trying to fix the problem.
His group is at militaryreligiousfreedom.org
I’m getting ahead of things a bit, but am I the ojnly one who heard Edwards say no to VP on NPR this morning? And the only one who thinks he sounded pretty sincere about it?
bugger. Here’s the link, properly formatted now i hope:
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2006/12/13/weinstein/
Shit, I’m NOT an atheist, and Huckabee scares the shit out of me. It’s not like any non-fundie believer “counts” for anything as far as creeps like him are concerned.
Of course, I wish anyone talking about how Faith is So Important to the American Way of Living would tone that shit down. I don’t give a shit if a candidate believes in God or not, because it has no fucking place in government anyway. Argh!
“I think we as Republicans should be celebrating tonight at the coronation of Hussein, in whose presence millions of Democrat women, from elementary school teachers to journalism majors to law school grads to dykes on bikes will go weak in their knees.
“The disturbing thing here is that it’s hefty doses of both prima facie sexism, and the myth of the black man as a violator of Pure Women ™. In one sentence, they manage to hit the bigot trifecta: racism, sexism, homophobia. Incredible.”
The part that kills *me* about this post is the utterly weird attempt at tarring “Hussein” Obama with the Muslim brush, while simultaneously saying that all these liberal women will fall on their knees for him. Serious cognitive dissonance there, given the Muslim record for women’s rights.
Not that the Dominionist record for women’s rights is any better, mind you. I’ve been saying for a year that Huckabee is going to win the Republican nomination and if he actually gets elected, women’s rights will go straight down the toilet. He scares me more than any other Republican candidate, by far.
I do, however, think that whoever pointed out above that Huckabee doesn’t have the inside connections that Bush had has a very good point. Bush–and Cheney–had years of connections and support behind them, and Huckabee doesn’t. There’s also no indication of who Huckabee might select for a running mate–I don’t know if he’s connected closely enough to the major Republican machine to get someone like Cheney, and I so couldn’t see him selecting Romney or McCain (the latter, at least, is connected). Unlike the Dems; I could very easily see any of the top three candidates selecting one of the other two for a running mate.
Shit, I’m NOT an atheist, and Huckabee scares the shit out of me. It’s not like any non-fundie believer “counts” for anything as far as creeps like him are concerned.
Of course, I wish anyone talking about how Faith is So Important to the American Way of Living would tone that shit down. I don’t give a shit if a candidate believes in God or not, because it has no fucking place in government anyway. Argh!
I totally AWTC. (I’m a pagan which equals “evil satanic broom-riding lesbian” to most fundies!) I elect my public officials based on how well I think they can govern, not on their religious or spiritual lives. What God my president or congresscritter prays to - or whether s/he’s a big ol’ atheist - doesn’t matter to me as long as they can do their frickin JOB.
Incidentally, a local congressperson - Rep. Pete Stark - revealed last year that he was a non-religious Unitarian Universalist. The reaction of his constituents was “So what?” Of course, Rep. Stark represents a district in the Bay Area, where most of us don’t care about such things; and he’s a good Congressperson, which is what really counts. And he’s a Democrat. By and large, Bay Area democrats would elect an atheist if s/he were a good candidate. Too bad that’s not true for many other areas of the country. Though I bet New Englanders are similarly blase on issues of religion.
JesterDel,
Ha, ‘Nehemiah Scudder’ obscure? Here? Hardly.
No more than ‘Serena Joy’.
“militaryreligiousfreedom.org”
1) I’m sad such a website needs to exist
2) I’m gratified that it seems to have money behind it.
3) (I’m annoyed I couldn’t find a MUTE button for the home page)
4) I’m appalled at some of the stories & press releases there.
Fruitbat: Not enough for a psuedo-populist like Edwards, either.
Somehow, I don’t think you know anybody who lives up there, or very far up there. If you do live up there, perhaps you are a large source of guano yourself, no?
Explain “pseudopopulist” in the context of how many NH residents hold multiple jobs, none of which have health care (SIL worked in the billing department of a regional hospital, mind you). How about the disproportionate number of war in Iraq deaths from the Granite and Green Mountain states entering into the political equation? The olds all remember working in mills like Edwards did, too. And no, Aynus Randus ain’t a valid reference in these parts.
You yourself just pointed out how fiscally conservative New Hampshire is. Fiscal conservatives–even of the Democratic variety–generally don’t go for John Edwards, sorry.
Personally, Giuliani scares me the worst of all the Goopers, because he has Shrub’s worst faults intensified: self-regard bordering on the insane, elevation of loyalty (to himself) above all other values, and inability to tolerate the least disagreement.
Although I agree Huckabee is plenty scary. How humiliating would it be to live in a country whose head of state thinks the ancestors of all the world’s animals walked off Noah’s Ark?
“How humiliating would it be to live in a country whose head of state thinks the ancestors of all the world’s animals walked off Noah’s Ark?”
Um, don’t we already?
Um, Fruitbat, it isn’t that simple.
You probably read that in a newspaper. Whoo whee! That’s better than spending time up there, camping with your inlaws and their buddies, or hanging out at the campground general store chatting with folks who actually, you know, vote? Right.
Fiscal conservative, yes. However, not GWB fiscal conservative - pay for schools and tangible community things, not wars that kill disproprotionate numbers. Healthcare is a different issue - try beyond fed up trumping stereotype here.
Add in Edwards coming from a life that many, many people living there recognize. He speaks to their life, and that is the core of TRUE populism.
Of course you don’t know this, you know better. You read MSM. Whoopee.
My parents (who are extremely canny about such things) point out that the GOP convention is in September, which is more than enough time for a “Draft Jeb” movement if Huckabee doesn’t have quite enough committed delegates for a first-ballot win.
Tell me they’re wrong. *Convince* me, please.
Oh for God’s sake, I regularly read The Nation among other publications that I almost totally disagree with. Nice ASSumption there, though.
Whens the last time you read James Bovard? How about Radley Balko?
Firstly GWB, who has grown government more than even Lyndon Johnson (!) is not a fiscal conservative and never even pretended to be. That growth didn’t come through only military spending, either. It came through things like Medicare Part D and No Child Left Behind.
John McCain, really, is probably the closest thing to a mainstream candidate running in New Hampshire who is a fiscal conservative.
I hear they haven’t exactly been idle in the Army and Navy, either… Seems to me like they’ve been slowly taking over significant portions of all branches of the Armed Forces.
Oh, joy. They can do for your Armed Forces what they’ve done for your Boards of Education…
Huckabee would scare me if I thought he had any chance of winning a general election. Giuliani would scare the bejesus out of me because I think he might have a chance at winning a general, but he’s not going to get the nomination. It’s McCain who scares me the most, because he’s the only Republican candidate who looks like he has a shot at winning both the nomination and a general election.
Oh, and because the media has a big crush on him.
“Y’all may think Huckabee is scary looking (?), but he was VERY personable last night on the Jay Leno show (as I blogged), and has a very likable screen persona.”
Yeah. So did Hannibal Lechter. Nice until the curtains close and the chianti is opened. The guy just creeps me out!
Re: Edwards refusing veep- maybe it was a rerun??
Fruitbat, read all ya want of your favorite intellectuals. You still won’t get it.
Being able to relate to a candidate goes a lonnnng way, even in NH. Thus Kucinich could come in with the same agenda as Edwards - or Dukakis or Reich, and wouldn’t get too far. Edwards is scaring the shit out of the local establishment, as evidenced by the way the local news media was trying to sweep him aside and was even outright lying about “gee, he’s not in second place” when his runner-up finish never wavered during his speech. It looks to me like they just couldn’t believe people would vote for Edwards, and now they are concerned that he will make a strong showing in NH. Why?
People really ARE that pissed off
People can relate to the guy and WILL relate to him, more so in a mill state like NH than in a farm state like Iowa (which, incidently, borders Illinois and that fact gave Obama a boost).
Theory is nice. Reality can bite your ass. All the media brush off and Pundit plooping in the world doesn’t change those simple realities.
New Hampshire isn’t as economically conservative as lots of people want to believe. (By economically conservative, I’m generally referring to pro-corporate.) Recall in 1988 or 1992 when Pat Buchanan launched what was called a “nativist” but also a “populist” challenge to Bush. It was based on economic hard times, free trade…it was a republican class war from below filtered through culture warrior lenses. And a big part of that emphasis was on class.
New Hampshire also overthrew almost its entire Republican establishment two years ago. It has an independent streak, but also has had a large influx of Bay Staters. It’s a tough place to peg because it doesn’t follow that the major conservative dailies represent the voting public.
Remember, it’s New England. We’ve got a bit of a history of labor agitation in this area.
Kate, if we’re speaking about Edward’s rhetorical skills I’m in agreement with you. Theres no doubt hes a class Class A stump speaker. Having that much experience speaking to juries certainly helps. I disagree with 75% of it, but he presents his views well.
I definitely think due to his southern-ness and rhetorical skills he has the best chance to win the general among all the Democrats.
A bass (or double bass) is the lowest-pitched bowed string instrument. Huckabee plays a bass guitar, used in rock and by the heathen to replace the true bass when playing jazz or blues. So, basically, Huck plays a “damn rock guitar.” Well, obviously, “Cyclone State” would be a little too much truth in advertising. And as an ISU alumnus/a, I resent everything.Perhaps the best job the MSM have done is to take a millworker’s son who made his own fortune, and who has proposed policies that would genuinely benefit the poor and working-class in this country, and turn him into a pseudo-populist. Meanwhile, David Brooks and Company are labeling Huckabee as a “populist,” even though he’s signed Grover’s tax pledge, is pushing the regressive government-defunding “Fair Tax,” and has no other meaningful economic proposals to speak of. Hey, look over there! The Breck Girl has a really big house.
Well, obviously, “Cyclone State” would be a little too much truth in advertising. And as an ISU alumnus/a, I resent everything.
The cyclone state would be Oklahoma or Kansas.
I resent nothing more than the closing of Dugan’s Deli.
How about the Hog Waste Lagoon State, home of the only airport with the call letters SUX?
Well, I resent nothing more than the closing of Sukothai. Well, okay, that was after my time too. But remember, I resent everything. Yeah, I could get behind that.All the Republican candidates are scary. Comparing Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee is like comparing Dracula, the Wolfman and Frankenstein.
The neocons have their hooks all the way through Romney, Mitt is anohter Bush who wants more legal and ethical abuses and Huckabee is Huckabee.
Personally if I had to choose one of those to win I would choose Huckabee if only to watch the Republican coalition totally implode.
Glad I could help. I hope it works out for you.
Well, flogging my own site a bit, here’s a chart showing you just how well the Iowa Caucus winners did in 1988.
Only two things scare me. The FBI raiding NAMBLA’s mailing list; and the idea of a Democrat stealing the White House away from America in November.
We are so very close, as a Christian nation, to a complete and utter victory over Islam and terrorism. Only a strong, angry leader like Senator MCCain has the wisdom and courage to launch a first-strike against Iran and complete America’s well-deserved domination over God’s Earth.
I pray every day to the Lord of Hosts, Jesus Christ, to deliver unto the Republican Party a third honest election victory in November.