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	<title>Comments on: Study: minorities are less likely to receive narcotics for pain in the ER</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Nadia</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-508321</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:32 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-508321</guid>
					<description>Number 1, whites are minority. I say this because I am white. Number 2, whites get seen last in the ER. Number 3, hardly anyone  gets the right meds in the hospital because they think everyone is faking it, lying, or just not sick. Alot of doctors today suck! I think because of the stupid DEA AND THE MEDICAL BOARD! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Number 1, whites are minority. I say this because I am white. Number 2, whites get seen last in the ER. Number 3, hardly anyone  gets the right meds in the hospital because they think everyone is faking it, lying, or just not sick. Alot of doctors today suck! I think because of the stupid DEA AND THE MEDICAL BOARD!
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		<title>by: Tom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478712</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478712</guid>
					<description>150,000 visits over 10 years represents a minuscule percentage of all ER visits.  There are more than 100 million ER visits per year in the US.  That means that out of 1 billion ER visits, the study looked at 150,000.  How many different hospitals?  In how many different states?  Did they compare private to public facilities?  Did they compare urban vs rural facilities?  Did they give preference to large facilities or small facilities?  I am sure that by carefully choosing my facilities I can give you whatever results you would like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>150,000 visits over 10 years represents a minuscule percentage of all ER visits.  There are more than 100 million ER visits per year in the US.  That means that out of 1 billion ER visits, the study looked at 150,000.  How many different hospitals?  In how many different states?  Did they compare private to public facilities?  Did they compare urban vs rural facilities?  Did they give preference to large facilities or small facilities?  I am sure that by carefully choosing my facilities I can give you whatever results you would like.
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		<title>by: home for now</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478490</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 02:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478490</guid>
					<description>It skews the data for a sample of two, but think about what's being measured.  

There are more than 150,000 visits recorded.  This is when the power of large numbers kicks in.  The statistical trends are very likely to have captured what the researchers say they do.  The peculiarities of a single hospital administrator (or even a few) aren't going to have an effect on the data. 

If you're arguing that the behavior of director B is somehow characteristic of many of the hospitals in the study, that conclusion is at odds with the overall increase in prescription of opioid painkillers. It doesn't follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It skews the data for a sample of two, but think about what&#8217;s being measured.  </p>
	<p>There are more than 150,000 visits recorded.  This is when the power of large numbers kicks in.  The statistical trends are very likely to have captured what the researchers say they do.  The peculiarities of a single hospital administrator (or even a few) aren&#8217;t going to have an effect on the data. </p>
	<p>If you&#8217;re arguing that the behavior of director B is somehow characteristic of many of the hospitals in the study, that conclusion is at odds with the overall increase in prescription of opioid painkillers. It doesn&#8217;t follow.
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		<title>by: Tom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478405</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478405</guid>
					<description>I did read the abstract and my point still holds.  If the director of Hospital A believed that opioids should only be used in extreme circumstances, his hospital would skew the data and it isn't clear that the authors of the study have accounted for these and other possible variables.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I did read the abstract and my point still holds.  If the director of Hospital A believed that opioids should only be used in extreme circumstances, his hospital would skew the data and it isn&#8217;t clear that the authors of the study have accounted for these and other possible variables.
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		<title>by: from the office</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478376</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478376</guid>
					<description>Actually statistics are not all that hard to do right, though people are often sloppy about assumptions and inferences.

Your point was that a hospital that consistently under-prescribed for painkillers and treated a larger number of blacks would skew the data.

But the report is not saying that blacks get fewer prescriptions for painkillers, but for opioid painkillers, even in an environment &lt;b&gt;when overall opioid prescription is higher.&lt;/b&gt;  I don't think your point holds.

Again, go and look at the abstract, not just the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Actually statistics are not all that hard to do right, though people are often sloppy about assumptions and inferences.</p>
	<p>Your point was that a hospital that consistently under-prescribed for painkillers and treated a larger number of blacks would skew the data.</p>
	<p>But the report is not saying that blacks get fewer prescriptions for painkillers, but for opioid painkillers, even in an environment <b>when overall opioid prescription is higher.</b>  I don&#8217;t think your point holds.</p>
	<p>Again, go and look at the abstract, not just the article.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478365</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478365</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;from the office&quot;&gt;If you trackback to the original abstract, you’ll see that the authors say that race was the only significant factor. Since this is JAM, I’m assuming that they (and their reviewers) know enough elementary statics to control for factors among the hospitals and so on.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not always a good assumption.  But until an analysis of the actual report and not just a newspaper article about it has been done, I think it needs to be taken with a grain of salt or two.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;Really, why is this so hard for people to believe?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

For the simple reason that statistics are VERY HARD to do right and JAMA isn't as good at reviewing studies as some people seem to think.  As long as the numbers are correct and reasonable controls are done, JAMA will accept the article.  The numbers I made up above are accurate and unless more detailed analysis was done at each individual hospital they might not even be noticed as misleading because they are accurate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote cite="from the office"><p>If you trackback to the original abstract, you’ll see that the authors say that race was the only significant factor. Since this is JAM, I’m assuming that they (and their reviewers) know enough elementary statics to control for factors among the hospitals and so on.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Not always a good assumption.  But until an analysis of the actual report and not just a newspaper article about it has been done, I think it needs to be taken with a grain of salt or two.  </p>
	<blockquote><p>Really, why is this so hard for people to believe?</p></blockquote>
	<p>For the simple reason that statistics are VERY HARD to do right and JAMA isn&#8217;t as good at reviewing studies as some people seem to think.  As long as the numbers are correct and reasonable controls are done, JAMA will accept the article.  The numbers I made up above are accurate and unless more detailed analysis was done at each individual hospital they might not even be noticed as misleading because they are accurate.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jennifer Cascadia Emphatically</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478274</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478274</guid>
					<description>Epistemology -- The Nietzsche quote is from the second essay of Genealogy of Morals.  Copy and paste a section of it into google to find out exactly where.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Epistemology &#8212; The Nietzsche quote is from the second essay of Genealogy of Morals.  Copy and paste a section of it into google to find out exactly where.
</p>
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		<title>by: from the office</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478251</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478251</guid>
					<description>Tom:

If you trackback to the original abstract, you'll see that the authors say that race was the only significant factor.  Since this is JAM, I'm assuming that they (and their reviewers) know enough elementary statics to control for factors among the hospitals and so on.  

Also note that minorities (not just blacks) are being prescribed painkilliers, just not the more effective opioid compounds.  

Really, why is this so hard for people to believe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tom:</p>
	<p>If you trackback to the original abstract, you&#8217;ll see that the authors say that race was the only significant factor.  Since this is JAM, I&#8217;m assuming that they (and their reviewers) know enough elementary statics to control for factors among the hospitals and so on.  </p>
	<p>Also note that minorities (not just blacks) are being prescribed painkilliers, just not the more effective opioid compounds.  </p>
	<p>Really, why is this so hard for people to believe?
</p>
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		<title>by: MikeEss</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478249</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478249</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;They kept trying to make me use MetroGel when it doesn’t work for me and in fact makes my rosacea worse. So I was having to pay out of pocket for Noritate, which was just expensive enough to make a dent in my budget ($100 every four months) but not nearly expensive enough for them to deny (IMO, of course).&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

This one-size-fits-all thinking helps alienate patients and increases overall dissatisfaction with medical care in the US - which may actually be a feature.

Insurance companies make money by trying to avoid paying out.  The same is true for medical care (mostly paid for by insurance companies).

Another big issue is that we are not actually &lt;i&gt;customers&lt;/i&gt; in a medical care &quot;transaction&quot;.  We are &lt;i&gt;consumers&lt;/i&gt;, i.e. we get the benefit of the medical care we seek.  But because we don't actually pay for the services, we are not the actual customers - the insurance companies are.  &quot;He who pays the piper calls the tune...&quot;

Single Payer:  It's the right thing to do...

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;They kept trying to make me use MetroGel when it doesn’t work for me and in fact makes my rosacea worse. So I was having to pay out of pocket for Noritate, which was just expensive enough to make a dent in my budget ($100 every four months) but not nearly expensive enough for them to deny (IMO, of course).&#8221;</i></p>
	<p>This one-size-fits-all thinking helps alienate patients and increases overall dissatisfaction with medical care in the US - which may actually be a feature.</p>
	<p>Insurance companies make money by trying to avoid paying out.  The same is true for medical care (mostly paid for by insurance companies).</p>
	<p>Another big issue is that we are not actually <i>customers</i> in a medical care &#8220;transaction&#8221;.  We are <i>consumers</i>, i.e. we get the benefit of the medical care we seek.  But because we don&#8217;t actually pay for the services, we are not the actual customers - the insurance companies are.  &#8220;He who pays the piper calls the tune&#8230;&#8221;</p>
	<p>Single Payer:  It&#8217;s the right thing to do&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478237</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/02/study-minorities-are-less-likely-to-receive-narcotics-for-pain-in-the-er/#comment-478237</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;That’s the problem. We’ve been conditioned to believe the right care is not OUR right. I have migraines — bad ones — and other problems that have required serious pain meds in the past. Yet any time I go to a new doctor, I spend half my time detailing my unusual drug reaction quirks to a disbelieving audience. It’s not fair!&lt;/i&gt;

I ended up switching away from Kaiser -- where I do like the doctors -- because they wouldn't even cover my freakin' rosacea medicine.  They kept trying to make me use MetroGel when it doesn't work for me and in fact makes my rosacea worse.  So I was having to pay out of pocket for Noritate, which was just expensive enough to make a dent in my budget ($100 every four months) but not nearly expensive enough for them to deny (IMO, of course).  And that's something for my &lt;i&gt;face&lt;/i&gt;, not something vital.

Sorry, that rant's been building for a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>That’s the problem. We’ve been conditioned to believe the right care is not OUR right. I have migraines — bad ones — and other problems that have required serious pain meds in the past. Yet any time I go to a new doctor, I spend half my time detailing my unusual drug reaction quirks to a disbelieving audience. It’s not fair!</i></p>
	<p>I ended up switching away from Kaiser &#8212; where I do like the doctors &#8212; because they wouldn&#8217;t even cover my freakin&#8217; rosacea medicine.  They kept trying to make me use MetroGel when it doesn&#8217;t work for me and in fact makes my rosacea worse.  So I was having to pay out of pocket for Noritate, which was just expensive enough to make a dent in my budget ($100 every four months) but not nearly expensive enough for them to deny (IMO, of course).  And that&#8217;s something for my <i>face</i>, not something vital.</p>
	<p>Sorry, that rant&#8217;s been building for a while.
</p>
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