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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;ll take door #3, thank you</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-478201</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-478201</guid>
					<description>Erika:
Have you tried singing Beautiful South's &quot;Don't Marry Her, Fuck Me&quot; as you do it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Erika:<br />
Have you tried singing Beautiful South&#8217;s &#8220;Don&#8217;t Marry Her, Fuck Me&#8221; as you do it?
</p>
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		<title>by: Erika</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-478158</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-478158</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think men are generally less selective than women, at least about casual relationships, and a substantial number of men aren’t very selective at all (though they try not to admit it).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The thing is, when women approach men, men seem to assume that those women are looking for an actual relationship.  When I've approached men, these are the most common reactions: a look of panic (Oh crap, she's interested in me.  How do I let her down easy?) or a mocking/insulting attitude (Who does she think she is?).  Now, it could be that I'm so hideous that these guys can't even stand the thought of having a one night stand with me, it could be that those guys assume that I'm looking for an actual relationship (but aren't into me enough for that), or it could be that men are in actual fact very selective, whether for a casual encounter or a long-term relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>I think men are generally less selective than women, at least about casual relationships, and a substantial number of men aren’t very selective at all (though they try not to admit it).</p></blockquote>
	<p>The thing is, when women approach men, men seem to assume that those women are looking for an actual relationship.  When I&#8217;ve approached men, these are the most common reactions: a look of panic (Oh crap, she&#8217;s interested in me.  How do I let her down easy?) or a mocking/insulting attitude (Who does she think she is?).  Now, it could be that I&#8217;m so hideous that these guys can&#8217;t even stand the thought of having a one night stand with me, it could be that those guys assume that I&#8217;m looking for an actual relationship (but aren&#8217;t into me enough for that), or it could be that men are in actual fact very selective, whether for a casual encounter or a long-term relationship.
</p>
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		<title>by: FreddyBak</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-478147</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-478147</guid>
					<description>I think much of this discussion makes a lot of sense. One point though.  Pickup Artists, and there are a huge variety nowadays, often DO help men get to their real self confidence and shyness issues.  In order to do that, they often give them various steps and procedures that they can think about when interacting with women in order to take their mind away from all of their insecurities. These procedures are often ones that have proven to &quot;work&quot; in the past. As far as I know, most pickup methods emphasize developing your own &quot;style&quot; and personality as the ultimate tool to get the girl.  The problem is that most of the guys are clueless as to the social norms that would facilitate portraying their personalities in a positive light.  

To be honest, I don't know enough about the guy in the article to label him a creep.  He very well may be, but what I read from it is that he thinks relationships are complicated and difficult to develop. He wants to have sex with women he meets as soon as possible and doesn't want to spend money on them to do so. So interacts in a bolder way than is common.  If a woman's agenda was originally not to have sex, and his bold actions changed that agenda, then he has accomplished his goal.  Now, if he has in any way shape or form been coercive, we have an abundance of problems with his behavior not least of which might be legal.   But what he seems to be emphasizing is that his first goal is sex, and if something develops later, great. If not, he will continue to try to have sex with other women.  

Additionally, although he probably won't agree with much of what I say, I pretty much agree with Seeker on most of what he has been saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think much of this discussion makes a lot of sense. One point though.  Pickup Artists, and there are a huge variety nowadays, often DO help men get to their real self confidence and shyness issues.  In order to do that, they often give them various steps and procedures that they can think about when interacting with women in order to take their mind away from all of their insecurities. These procedures are often ones that have proven to &#8220;work&#8221; in the past. As far as I know, most pickup methods emphasize developing your own &#8220;style&#8221; and personality as the ultimate tool to get the girl.  The problem is that most of the guys are clueless as to the social norms that would facilitate portraying their personalities in a positive light.  </p>
	<p>To be honest, I don&#8217;t know enough about the guy in the article to label him a creep.  He very well may be, but what I read from it is that he thinks relationships are complicated and difficult to develop. He wants to have sex with women he meets as soon as possible and doesn&#8217;t want to spend money on them to do so. So interacts in a bolder way than is common.  If a woman&#8217;s agenda was originally not to have sex, and his bold actions changed that agenda, then he has accomplished his goal.  Now, if he has in any way shape or form been coercive, we have an abundance of problems with his behavior not least of which might be legal.   But what he seems to be emphasizing is that his first goal is sex, and if something develops later, great. If not, he will continue to try to have sex with other women.  </p>
	<p>Additionally, although he probably won&#8217;t agree with much of what I say, I pretty much agree with Seeker on most of what he has been saying.
</p>
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477790</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477790</guid>
					<description>(Caveat: this is about general dating, and not the infinitely more fun &quot;wanna fuck?&quot; portion of this thread.)

Pretty much all people have trouble with unfamiliar situations, especially when those situations are in direct contradiction to our experience, and trebly so when those situations are contrary not only to our experience but also to our expectations.  The average male expects to be approached by a woman about as often as he expects to be run over by an ice cream truck.  Sure, he knows that such things happen.  Sure, he may have even heard of such things happening.  But he doesn't expect it to happen to &lt;i&gt;him&lt;/i&gt;.  One doesn't have to be a misogynist to be stunned and clueless when such an unexpected thing happens.   (Shrugs.)  The silly reality is that most men will go through their lives with it never happening to them.  And if they err the first time it is rather unlikely that it will happen another time.  

Or (he says, hoping against hope) have things changed since my own serious dating days over a decade and a half ago?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>(Caveat: this is about general dating, and not the infinitely more fun &#8220;wanna fuck?&#8221; portion of this thread.)</p>
	<p>Pretty much all people have trouble with unfamiliar situations, especially when those situations are in direct contradiction to our experience, and trebly so when those situations are contrary not only to our experience but also to our expectations.  The average male expects to be approached by a woman about as often as he expects to be run over by an ice cream truck.  Sure, he knows that such things happen.  Sure, he may have even heard of such things happening.  But he doesn&#8217;t expect it to happen to <i>him</i>.  One doesn&#8217;t have to be a misogynist to be stunned and clueless when such an unexpected thing happens.   (Shrugs.)  The silly reality is that most men will go through their lives with it never happening to them.  And if they err the first time it is rather unlikely that it will happen another time.  </p>
	<p>Or (he says, hoping against hope) have things changed since my own serious dating days over a decade and a half ago?
</p>
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		<title>by: Amanda Marcotte</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477671</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 08:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477671</guid>
					<description>Yes, E, I'm aware a lot of men have self-congratulatory self-images where they are flexible and open-minded (unlike those despised women) and also very open to the idea of getting the only women are good for (sex) without having to tolerate a woman's unbearable company.  Interestingly, misogynists are men so deeply invested in social norms that I suspect they'd end up being the ones so thrown by a woman who behaved out of expectations that they'd run away, regardless of pre-existing self-fluffery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, E, I&#8217;m aware a lot of men have self-congratulatory self-images where they are flexible and open-minded (unlike those despised women) and also very open to the idea of getting the only women are good for (sex) without having to tolerate a woman&#8217;s unbearable company.  Interestingly, misogynists are men so deeply invested in social norms that I suspect they&#8217;d end up being the ones so thrown by a woman who behaved out of expectations that they&#8217;d run away, regardless of pre-existing self-fluffery.
</p>
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		<title>by: E</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477664</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 05:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477664</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;if the experience of being the asked-out person is anything like a woman’s, that means you have the uncomfortable job of shooting down 9 out of 10 applicants&lt;/blockquote&gt;If an average woman went around a bar suggesting &quot;wanna fuck?&quot;, do you think the first nine men would all decline? I think men are generally less selective than women, at least about casual relationships, and a substantial number of men aren't very selective at all (though they try not to admit it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>if the experience of being the asked-out person is anything like a woman’s, that means you have the uncomfortable job of shooting down 9 out of 10 applicants</blockquote>
If an average woman went around a bar suggesting &#8220;wanna fuck?&#8221;, do you think the first nine men would all decline? I think men are generally less selective than women, at least about casual relationships, and a substantial number of men aren&#8217;t very selective at all (though they try not to admit it).
</p>
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		<title>by: Arun</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477659</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 02:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477659</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Granted, it’s more complex in some situations, but the rule of thumb is the person with a greater social station sets the parameters the interaction. In dating, where people have a uniquely strong right to reject for any reason, the easiest way to keep men’s power and station is to let them do all the pursuing.&lt;/i&gt;

Maybe that is why I don't fit in.  My inclination in this specific type of instance (if I'm the one with the &quot;greater social station&quot;) is to make it clear that I'm interested, but I want the &quot;less powerful&quot; to then set the parameters. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Granted, it’s more complex in some situations, but the rule of thumb is the person with a greater social station sets the parameters the interaction. In dating, where people have a uniquely strong right to reject for any reason, the easiest way to keep men’s power and station is to let them do all the pursuing.</i></p>
	<p>Maybe that is why I don&#8217;t fit in.  My inclination in this specific type of instance (if I&#8217;m the one with the &#8220;greater social station&#8221;) is to make it clear that I&#8217;m interested, but I want the &#8220;less powerful&#8221; to then set the parameters.
</p>
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		<title>by: RenegadeEvolution</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477657</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477657</guid>
					<description>I wonder how many pay phone numbers he's collected with this method....or how many women who run the same game on men like him are snickering whenever he appears anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I wonder how many pay phone numbers he&#8217;s collected with this method&#8230;.or how many women who run the same game on men like him are snickering whenever he appears anywhere.
</p>
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		<title>by: grendelkhan</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477650</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477650</guid>
					<description>It's kind of analogous to media, when you think about it. Supposedly media's customers are their viewers, and their product is their delicious programming. But the viewers are really their product, and their real customers are the advertisers. Kinda-likewise, supposedly the pick-up artist's product is supposedly their magical pick-up techniques, but really they're selling snake oil to the insecure--they're selling confidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s kind of analogous to media, when you think about it. Supposedly media&#8217;s customers are their viewers, and their product is their delicious programming. But the viewers are really their product, and their real customers are the advertisers. Kinda-likewise, supposedly the pick-up artist&#8217;s product is supposedly their magical pick-up techniques, but really they&#8217;re selling snake oil to the insecure&#8211;they&#8217;re selling confidence.
</p>
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		<title>by: paul</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477645</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/31/ill-take-door-3-thank-you/#comment-477645</guid>
					<description>Even being asked by someone you want (abstractly) to ask you can be fairly unpleasant unless you've let them know you want to be asked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Even being asked by someone you want (abstractly) to ask you can be fairly unpleasant unless you&#8217;ve let them know you want to be asked.
</p>
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