Cody’s audition shot for Playboy. I know I’m in love.
“…This is a real paradox for me: My entire life I’ve been told I wasn’t pretty enough. My entire life I was told by people that I was ugly, that I was too tall, that I was flat-chested, that I was this, that I was that. When I was a stripper I was never quite pretty enough. I was never one of the beautiful girls. I was never one of the top earners. Suddenly I achieve something in my life that is purely intellectual and purely creative, and I’m being told that it’s because I’m pretty. To me that is the weirdest, most ironic thing ever. Like all of a sudden I’m attractive when it suits people’s purposes. But in the past when I needed to be attractive I was ugly. So let’s pick. Which is it?” — Juno screenwriter Diablo Cody [Minneapolis City Pages]
Surely she’s aware of the different-kinds-of-pretty phenomenon. The kind of pretty that earns you the big bucks in the strip club would be considered garish and unappealing on someone trying to work geek hot or the hipster pretty thing. If Cody really had the stereotypical stripper/porn star look to her—fake tits, fake tan, bleached blond hair, fake fingernails—she wouldn’t be taken seriously enough to get screenwriting work, and I’m sure she’s well aware of that. Which is shallow and unfair, of course, but not exactly a secret.
That said, I’m deeply alarmed at the way that Cody is being treated like a talking dog by the entertainment press. It’s 2007; is it really that amazing that a woman can write a clever screenplay? (I’m assuming it’s clever. While I want to see “Juno”, I haven’t yet.) I have little doubt that people are in fact casting around for excuses, reasons that she has had this success other than merit. The real irony here is that we’re clearly far away from the day when a woman can rise to the top through brainless hackery, i.e. a female Michael Bay.
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More broadly, too much attention is being paid to the “quirkyness” of Cody’s dialogue, and not not enough to how Juno is also 1) genuinely and unexpectedly touching and 2) essentially a perfectly structured feature-length comedy. It’s a case-study in how to make a “situation comedy” into film art. Cody is a damn fine screenwriter by any measure.
The quirky thing is working my last nerve. I suspect that if a man wrote something that quirky, it would be a non-issue (who isn’t quirky?) or, if it was really quirky, he’d be the second coming of Wes Anderson. The movie that’s on TV now is “The Big Lebowski”, which I love, but is also strong evidence against this skittishness towards stylized, quirky screenwriting being a pre-Cody phenomenon. It’s almost as if it were kind of invented to be held against her and will fade away when the next big male star comes along.
Amanda:
The Big Lebowski is a great counter-example. John Goodman’s Walter Sobchak is as just as ridiculously verbose as Juno MacGuff, but somehow Walter is a charming oaf, why Juno is a sarcastic little bitch. Please. People can’t just listen to a great comedic dialogue and enjoy it; they have to unload their baggage onto the characters.
Uh, Walter is charming? I loved the character, but damn I would not want to bowl with that psychopath.
Well, you couldn’t bowl with him today anyway, because he don’t roll on Shabbos.
I actually met “Diablo” years ago at a New Year’s Eve party years ago, just out of college, before her screenwriting (and stripping) career, and once or twice after that. All I have to say about this quote is that I am continually amazed at the women who don’t think they’re pretty.
I’m kind of an obvious guy, but people actually complain when women are too tall? And say it to her face?
All I have to say about this quote is that I am continually amazed at the women who don’t think they’re pretty.
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so no matter how gorgeous you are to some people, other people will be happy enough to tell you how ugly you are. I can definitely say that almost every trait of mine that has been praised by one person has been derided by another. If you’re a smart ass (and we have every reason to believe Cody is), you will get told non-stop that you’re ugly. It’s the standard put-down aimed at women; I get told that by email writers and commenters on a regular basis, and most of them probably only have a dim idea of what I look like. It’s hard not to internalize that.
Plus, it’s very, very unbecoming for a woman to be aware of her good looks. Is there much worse of an insult to aim at a woman than, “And she knows it, too”? It’s important for women to ever be humble and realize that no matter how hot they look at any point in time, they probably could use some improvement. Practice self-deprecation long enough and you will internalize it to a degree.
you’d be amazed what people feel entitled to say to a woman’s face.
I’m kind of an obvious guy, but people actually complain when women are too tall? And say it to her face?
YES. Apparently it does something to shrink the Y-chromosome and is thus offensive.
Also what Lizzie said.
Oh, I understand the forces that cause women to feel that way, it’s just something that saddens me. It’s not just physical beauty either, it’s a host of good things. The best women and men I know always seem to be the ones who think the least of themselves.
All I have to say about this quote is that I am continually amazed at the women who don’t think they’re pretty.
Being a man, I can only state this from observation, but I feel fairly comfortable in saying that every living woman, from ca. age 3 to death, receives several daily reminders that she is not, and never can be, pretty enough. It doesn’t matter if you’re actually pretty or not; you aren’t. Your butt’s too big, your chest is too small (or too big, depending on the situation), you dress too provocatively, or not provocatively enough, you’re too fat, you’re too skinny, you’re not athletic enough, you have muscles like a boy, and so on and so forth.
Men get this message too, but not nearly at the overwhelming volume that women do. And given how much value is placed on a woman’s attractiveness relative to her overall value, the amazing thing is that there are any women who consider themselves attractive at all.
rjl, it’s tempting to say something about the nature of perfectionism in reply to your comment about the best people thinking the least of themselves.
The best women and men I know always seem to be the ones who think the least of themselves.
I read a study once that people who are on the verge of public success are most likely to fear being discovered as frauds — in fact, it’s pretty endemic in grad students. I wonder if this can also apply to some kind of beauty “success.” There’s nothing more public than your face.
Sterotypically, beauty has a time limit (ask John Derbyshire) and when you’re aware that others think your beautiful thanks to external factors you, as a woman, internalize that your value to many is limited. Diablo is touching on that here, in a way. Whatever you do as a woman is commentary on your appearance, and people will bend over backwards to draw that connection.
I will say that since I’ve been a good student of the “you’ll never be pretty enough” school, I’m unfortunately oblivious whenever someone has a crush on me, since it seems unlikely. It’s gotten better with age, but does tend to make you Nice Guy® bait, because you actually do think they’re hanging around because you’re buddies.
TBL: I hated that fucking piece of trash. And Goodman was NOT “charming”, he was a threatening nutcase.
And the dialog sucked like a black hole.
I think the “treating her like a talking dog” thing has more to do with her past as a stripper than with her being a woman. There are some very succesful female screenwriters (Susannah Grant and Callie Khouri are two who sprang to mind immediately) who don’t get this amount of media attention. A former stripper with the pseudonym “Diablo Cody” who’s getting Oscar buzz for her first screenplay makes a better story.
It really is amazing, though, what some men feel entitled to say to a women’s face. A month ago my friend left a bar crying because some asshole told her she was too tall. And I remember once I was in a restaurant with some friends and some obnoxious random guy said, as he walked by our table, “Hey, ladies. You’re all beautiful. Not really.”
That sucks that it made your friend cry. Any man who does that really is saying to you, “I hate myself because, as you can clearly see, there is no reason whatsoever in the world not to hate me, and I try to shore up my self-esteem by wallowing in a privilege granted to me unjustly by a patriarchal society.” I recommend replying to such men, “Oh thank god, I was afraid you were going to hit on me.” If you can; usually they run away before they have a chance to hear your retort.
Men get this message too, but not nearly at the overwhelming volume that women do.
And of course, we’re allowed to trade in ways women aren’t allowed to–we can make up for not being attractive by being funny, or wealthy, or powerful. But let a woman try to do that and all hell breaks loose.
And Eric, perhaps you should change your nickname to “Rejector of good taste in films.”
An ex-gf of mine, whom I still adore, was recently told “You should lose some weight because you have a really pretty face.”
The guy who said that to her was a drag queen. You always want to think that being part of a marginalized group makes a person less of a dick but obviously not always.
I think what I did say to that guy who said that to my friend was, “Ever think you’re too short?” (He was short, of course- you’d have to be short and insecure about it to say something like that.) It’s so hard to think of a good comeback at the spur of the moment, though. Your idea’s better.
A male friend of a friend of mine met the “perfect” girl a few weeks earlier, but is apparently highly distressed about the fact that she’s significantly taller than him, and is not sure whether to pursue a relationship due to her height. I know being “too tall” is not an uncommon criticism, but his consternation shows him to be an utter fuckwit… I just don’t get it.
Also, Juno is the best comedy I’ve seen in a long time, and I find it incredibly frustrating (and almost hard to believe) that someone could walk out of that movie and think its success is due to the physical attributes of the writer rather than her comic genius.
And of course, we’re allowed to trade in ways women aren’t allowed to–we can make up for not being attractive by being funny, or wealthy, or powerful. But let a woman try to do that and all hell breaks loose.
Let’s not get too carried away. Ellen Degeneris has managed to build a pretty good career in spite of not being especially attractive and I’ll bet Orpah could have all the boy toys she wanted.
“Ellen Degeneris has managed to build a pretty good career in spite of not being especially attractive and I’ll bet Orpah could have all the boy toys she wanted.”
And they did it with nary a peep from anybody about how the former is a lesbian and the latter is not sufficiently close to a size zero. Truly, they are the counter-examples to end all counter-examples.
Let’s not get too carried away. Ellen Degeneris has managed to build a pretty good career in spite of not being especially attractive and I’ll bet Orpah could have all the boy toys she wanted.
And not only are they the rare exceptions, but think of how much shit they’ve had to take while getting to that place in their careers. Has there ever been a male celebrity whose weight fluctuations have been as closely documented as Oprah’s, for example?
It is interesting how a power structure invests conversational norms. The “entitled to compliment/entitled to insult” position which is available to men has never really been diagrammed and studied, as far as I know, even though we all know it is there. It is amazing when the switch goes to the insult side, but it is in the nature of the switch. I do think, however, that this conversational entitlement has weakened considerably. Although of course Chris Matthews is counterevidence. The strip joint is like a museum that preserves artifacts like this.
Been there: not pretty enough for a stepmother, who had been a beauty (which was her only ace, sorry to say, and her life took a downward slide when, much to her surprise, she grew older.)
So I was stunned when photographer friends in the big city wanted to take my picture. Although that couldn’t be the final evaluation, because along the way, men who did/did not want a date also weighed in: palpable disgust registered vs. hot pursuit.
In addition, I have lived in big cities for decades where strange men feel it’s their right to pony up an opinion out loud on my attractiveness, one way or the other, as I walk to a destination (and sometimes “pretty” before rejection of their advances, “fat, ugly,” whatever, after.)
Either reaction with it’s threatening element, to a woman.
It would be difficult as a woman, not to have all that effect self-esteem, but unlike my poor stepmother, as I grow older (approaching 60!) I’m able to take it more in stride (and the men get older, too, which means I still have admirers/stalkers/those disgusted by my deterioration.)
But unlike my poor stepmother (and mother, before her) at least in my generation the expectation wasn’t that our self-esteem be based solely on sexuality — we could also factor in our work in the world.
Still, I’m amazed at a man who is amazed at the number of women who have a difficult time believing they’re pretty — it’s amazing any of us do.
It’s funny. Just before my wife and I started “dating” (we never did the standard dating thing, hence quotes), my friend encouraged me to try it by saying, “She’s kind of homely, but seems pretty nice.”
This is one of the weird things about beauty. Most women think my wife is beautiful; some men don’t. Most do. There’s just the odd guy who thinks she’s ugly, and I just don’t get it. Neither does she. She had the benefit of growing up in a tiny, isolated community with parents who cared most about her achievements and never made any real comments about her appearance. She doesn’t really have any particular hangups about said appearance as a result, but she’s a rarity.
I agree with you Amanda that Diablo Cody knows the difference between “playboy” hot and “suicide girls” hot and that she wasn’t considered “hot” because she was on the playboy end of the spectrum. And I haven’t read all the interviews with her but those that I have read don’t really mention her looks, just her background and how she came up with her pen name. And I know that every time I heard about her, any description came complete with details about her sex work. However, those same people would talk about how talented she was (and one of my friends who works for a Will Not Be Named production company got to meet her and developed a crush on her) so I’d like to think people out here do appreciate her talent.
Having said that, I’ve seen Juno, thought it was okay. Then again, living in L.A. I had to live with the hype for months of everyone telling me it was the second coming of the coming of age film and when I saw it I thought it was alright but not what everyone was making it out to be (which, to say it is like sacrilige out here right now). Then again, I’ve seen my fair share of “smart ass suburban white teen” films (as I’m sure most people have) and to me it was just that the protagonist was pregnant this time around, not necessarily more “quirky” or even smarter in the smart assed department. And the constant music over scenes made me think of a Grey’s Anatomy episode. But I did love Ellen Page and all of her scenes with Juno’s parents.
I’m looking forward to seeing what Cody does next, including her female response to Superbad and her pilot for Showtime. Very rarely do screenwriters (not writer-directors) become stars and brand names in their own right (at least outside of Hollywood) and the last time it happened I believe was with Kevin Williamson after Scream and Dawson’s Creek. I hope Cody has better longevity.
There’s a perception that women systematically reject men that are shorter than they are…
From a study of responses to online dating profiles:
A man who is 5 feet 6 inches tall, for example, needs an additional $175,000 to be as desirable as a man who is approximately 6 feet tall (the median height in our sample) and who makes $62,500 per year.
I used to get the ‘too tall’ comments all the time. I am pretty tall, but not overly so (just over 5′10″). Some men just can’t deal with a woman as tall as they are–maybe they’re afraid we’ll squish them or something. One thing I’ve noticed, though, is that the guys with the biggest problems with my height have been the closest to it. The really tall and really short ones don’t care (and my husband is 5′6″ and skinny, never bothered him a bit), but the 5′9″-6′ ones seem to have some sort of complex.
But yeah, you’d be surprised at what some people (and not just men, although mostly) feel like they can say to a woman’s face. We never can be good enough.
even if i allow myself to think i’m pretty for a minute i start tearing myself apart the next. theres a really insane level of guilt about vanity, about thinking yourself pretty. getting to judge your own appearance isn’t allowed in our culture, you have to let other people tell you how you look. and you cannot believe yourself to be pretty, becos then youre a stuck up bitch. if people kno that you like how you look they will do everything in their power to take that away from you, and you become the stuck up bitch who isnt even pretty anyway, often accompanied by a detailed list of every single real and imaginary flaw you have.
the thing that sucks the most is that the hatred doesnt just come from men, women are taught to be so competitive, and to hate themselves so much, that the minute they see another woman cease hating herself they attack. obviously not all women are like this, and i have some amazing female friends, but a large majority of the women i have met have been these sort of catty self loathing ultra competitive for male attention types. its heart breaking. my mom is that type of woman, and everything else about her is amazing, but the way she treats other women is just plain awful, like its a beauty pageant and everyone else is trying to take her crown away.
One of these things is not like the other.
A guy who is 5′6″ is still taller than a rather large percentage of women, what with the average height of women being somewhere between 5′4″ and 5′6″ (I forget exactly, but it’s on the lower end, IIRC). His problem, therefore, is not that he’s not taller than most women, but that he’s significantly shorter than the male ideal.
Women are conditioned to go for taller and larger men, because the ideal for women is to be small and delicate. I do know some women who won’t date guys who aren’t taller than they are, but these are women who aren’t very tall themselves. I also know men who won’t date women who are taller than they are, because they, in turn, are conditioned to believe that they’re supposed to be bigger than the woman.
At 5′9″ tall, I’m about average height for guys. You would not believe the anxiety I’ve gotten from some guys I’ve dated about my height. Even when we’re about even, they can get weird about me wearing heels. I’ve even gotten anxiety from male bosses because I’m taller than they are — and I’m not extraordinarily tall.
Other, more secure guys don’t care. They’re much more fun to be around.
Stephen Sondheim has said he regrets “I Feel Pretty,” the song lyric he wrote for “West Side Story” when he was in his twenties. Over the years, he said, he has learned that one does not feel pretty. Especially if one is a woman.
It’s really a lose-lose situation; the women who meet whatever standard of attractiveness they’re being held to can have all their achievements attributed to “looks privilege”, while the women who don’t meet the standard are almost entirely shut out.
That said, I certainly know which group I sympathize with more.
Grolby, dearest, do you hate me cause I’m too tall?
Average American woman = 5′4″, man = 5′9″, I believe. So a 5′6″ man is not that short.
To clarify for Doug, this guy isn’t scared of being rejected. She wants to be with him, and he’s unsure about whether or not he should reject HER based on her height.
Luther Vandross was constantly made fun of because of his fluctuating weight. But in all that “comedy” (morning radio, late night monologues, stand up , etc), they never eviscerated him in the totally personal way that they did/do with Oprah. Her biggest sin isnt that she cant ‘control’ herself; it;s that she’s not sexually attractive to the typical self-hating, insecure, woman-loathing man. i mean, the WAY they go about it –such naked woman/minority hatred, said with such gusto & glee– it’s repulsive & i wonder why it isnt seriously called on. Not just her, but any woman who doesnt fit their subserviant ‘ideal toy’ image.
“Oh thank god, I was afraid you were going to hit on me.”
Not that I’ve been the recipient of many unprovoked insults from strangers in bars, much less been quick enough to respond to them, but it seems like the kind of guy who would go to the trouble of insulting a stranger (and not run away immediately afterwards) would be happy to get any kind of reaction from her. He might even interpret this as flirting.
Not that I’ve been the recipient of many unprovoked insults from strangers in bars, much less been quick enough to respond to them, but it seems like the kind of guy who would go to the trouble of insulting a stranger (and not run away immediately afterwards) would be happy to get any kind of reaction from her. He might even interpret this as flirting.
Yeah, I prefer to say “And I care what you think… why?” Stare at them like they’re dirt on your shoe while you’re saying it, and say it in an almost-monotone, like you can’t even muster enough interest in them to insult them properly, and then *immediately* turn back to whatever you were doing.
But I dunno, I seem to be remarkably good at projecting what my husband calls the “fuck-you” field, and that keeps me from being harassed in the first place.
“Too tall” complaints are really a complaint about the speaker being too short and fearing either rejection or looking emasculated. Telling someone to their face that they are too tall is a defense mechanism, and is roughly similar to “you’re a lot better looking than I am” or “you make a lot more money than I do.”
The best is reply is probably “no, you’re too short” because it brings that subtext to the surface.
At 5′9″ tall, I’m about average height for guys. You would not believe the anxiety I’ve gotten from some guys I’ve dated about my height.
Never understood it, but I know it exists. I’m 5′ 9-1/2″, my ex was 5′ 8-1/2″, meaning if she ever wore heels, she was taller than me. Somehow, my fragile little ego hung on just fine. Hers too. But I was asked more than once if it bothered me. So was she.
I think it does have to do with power; women are supposed to be dainty, men manly, and anything that challenges gender roles will create friction, even in people who should know better.
“The real irony here is that we’re clearly far away from the day when a woman can rise to the top through brainless hackery, i.e. a female Michael Bay.”
Please. No. One Michael Bay (regardless of gender) is more than we need.
There are some very succesful female screenwriters (Susannah Grant and Callie Khouri are two who sprang to mind immediately) who don’t get this amount of media attention.
You must not have been paying attention to the media when Thelma and Louise first came out. There was a HUGE amount of media attention paid to Callie Khouri, and she really was treated like a talking dog: She’s a WOMAN. Who wrote a SCREENPLAY. And she’s a WOMAN!!! With a uterus and breasteses and everything!
It’s slightly better than it used to be, but feature screenwriting is still one of the biggest boys’ clubs out there. There’s a reason the vast majority of female screenwriters are writer/directors, and it ain’t because women are naturally more talented as directors. It’s because the only way to get your screenplay made is (usually) to direct it yourself, because no one else is going to make it.
“The real irony here is that we’re clearly far away from the day when a woman can rise to the top through brainless hackery,”
Not screenwriting, but Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin have paved the way in that regard with other writing…
And of course, we’re allowed to trade in ways women aren’t allowed to–we can make up for not being attractive by being funny, or wealthy, or powerful. But let a woman try to do that and all hell breaks loose
I have my doubts about that. Are you talking about the public sphere, or are you including private experience as well?
Speaking of Bey, I was watching The Island last night (I was in it for the guy eye candy. Shut up.) which is basically a big budget remake of Parts: The Clonus Horror with lots of car chases and a Hollywood happy ending tacked on.
You have not plumbed the depths of Bey’s sexism until you seen his commentary, like his idea that the life pods which gestate the clones should be like “adult sized silicon breast implants” (I SO did not need to know that.) and the blond heroine is a “badass” because she hits a bad guy with a rusty wrench while she’s fleeing for her life. As the Agony Booth said drily “As opposed to most women, who spend their time moping around and staring at their engagement rings.”
Not that I’ve been the recipient of many unprovoked insults from strangers in bars, much less been quick enough to respond to them, but it seems like the kind of guy who would go to the trouble of insulting a stranger (and not run away immediately afterwards) would be happy to get any kind of reaction from her. He might even interpret this as flirting.
Waaaaait a minute here - are you sure he wasn’t trying that crappy “neg” seduction technique?
Ugh, “quirky.” A while back, I saw a book review where the great underground cartoonist Kim Deitch was described as “quirky” by a critic who didn’t know much about comics and thought he was a woman because his name is Kim. It made me realize that no one who knew Deitch’s gender had ever described his work as anything remotely like “quirky” (his Wikipedia entry uses descriptions like “psychedelia-tinged”) and it also reminded me of the many times I’d seen the work of female underground/alternative cartoonists described as “quirky” or in similarly fluffy terms. It’s a way to dismiss creative, witty or challenging work by people who aren’t supposed to be creative, witty or challenging.
Incidentally, I know this is a symptom of psychosis brought on by house-hunting in the Bay Area, but when I look at that photo my eyes keep drifting away from Diablo Cody’s ass and toward her stunning hardwood cabinets.
Waaaaait a minute here - are you sure he wasn’t trying that crappy “neg” seduction technique?
He probably was! The more I read about pickup artist techniques, the more I think they’re just an elaborate way to drive away all women with a shred of intelligence or self-respect, leaving only the handful of women who might sleep with a guy who uses pickup artist techniques.
As a man of significantly below average height (5′4′’) who is job-free by choice, I have taken myself off the dating market on the grounds that any woman who would want me must 1) be crazy or 2) be able to do much better and therefore I shouldn’t waste my time or anyone else’s.
My brother has an investment banking job lined up for when he graduates from college; he ended up with all the ambition in the family. (He’s also read far too much pick-up artist propaganda.) To paraphrase the song, I don’t want to work, I just want to bang on these keys all day…
At 5′9″ tall, I’m about average height for guys. You would not believe the anxiety I’ve gotten from some guys I’ve dated about my height. Even when we’re about even, they can get weird about me wearing heels. I’ve even gotten anxiety from male bosses because I’m taller than they are — and I’m not extraordinarily tall.
I’ve had boyfriends like that. Again, luckily the husband isn’t nearly so insecure. And I wear heels (almost never less than 2 1/2 inches) all the time. I figure that I’m so much taller than he is anyway that it doesn’t really matter if I add a couple of inches. My next door neighbor is like that as well. His wife is barely shorter than he is and she “isn’t allowed” to wear heels (her exact words to me) because he doesn’t like her to be taller than him.
It is exactly about power and perception. Some women like to feel small and delicate to prove their womanhood and some men like to feel large and powerful to prove their manhood.
I even had a guy once insist, absolutely insist, that I was six feet tall. See, I couldn’t be 5′9″, because *he* was 5′9″, and since I was taller, *clearly* I had to be six feet tall.
I just snorted that he was five nine like Tom Cruise is five nine.
Oh, and ditto on the cabinets.
I’ve dated guys my height and shorter. They never cared or said a word, but I’ve had people curiously ask if it bothers me. I tell them I’m not that damn shallow.
Well being a female raised almost exclusively by a father and beauty queen step mother ( Judy Brown — someone else has a similar experience! Wow!), I always felt that I was never pretty enough to garner the much needed attention of my father.
Couple that with my father’s constant hatred of my mother who left him and was subsequently punished for her pursuit of a PhD by losing custody of her kids (my father is the MRA classic), I had some pretty fucked up messages about my role as a female.
My way of dealing with this in my teens and twenties was to struggle to be the most attractive and hawt female anywhere. I also grew up in a household where although my step mother was the Queen, all women in my father’s eyes were “whores” or deserved maltreatment if they failed to meet what he determined the standard for a woman.
I remember distinctly his discussing a case a friend of his had (he was a lawyer) in which a man killed his wife, his comment? “Well, she was a horrible nag, can’t blame the guy really.”
As I’ve matured, I’ve felt less comfortable meeting the standard. I want fiercely to be appreciated as a person, not an appliance. So I went into the building trades as a rotten marriage and kids kept me from pursuing higher ed.
Frankly I enjoy working with my hands and being judged for my skill and not for my looks. I can get up everyday and wear my work clothes and not be expected to look beautiful or attractive; just functional.
That’s not to say I don’t pay a price. I’ve had plenty of men say to me, “If you could just wear some make-up, or a dress sometimes.” or making the assumption that I don’t know how to dress “like a lady”.
Thanks but no thanks. I spent most of my school years wearing dresses (mandated by my father) and serving the male ego. I’ve paid my dues and the rest can go straight to hell.
I guess you have to have that attitude and for me its the price I pay for my freedom to be who I am.
I also have to say that much to my surprise, there are men who actually appreciate my carefree tomboyishness. So its not all hell and lonliness for those of us who throw in the patriarchy towel.
I’m sorry Cody worries so much about her appearance and social approval. She’ll either make the decision to succumb to that vacuum or just be herself and say to hell with it. I can’t help but think that her time as a stripper or even her choice to strip indicates a willingness to bargain with the devil when necessary. I hope she can make some peace within herself and not have to feel she should ever compromise her creativity to meet the male standard. Because if she does, she will lose. Is that Playboy pose snark or real? Sorry but if she really is posing for Playboy, then I guess she has decided to bargain with the devil for a while longer. Watch it girl, they will eat you alive in that dungeon.
“You have not plumbed the depths of Bey’s sexism until you seen his commentary, like his idea that the life pods which gestate the clones should be like “adult sized silicon breast implants” (I SO did not need to know that.) and the blond heroine is a “badass” because she hits a bad guy with a rusty wrench while she’s fleeing for her life.”
Actually, it’s not just the sexism. If you watch Bad Boys II, you learn that Bay has contempt for women, gays, foreigners (especially poor ones), and pretty much all carbon based life forms. And yet he wonders why he’s so widely disliked.
Still, I’m amazed at a man who is amazed at the number of women who have a difficult time believing they’re pretty — it’s amazing any of us do.
Having made that original statement, of course I understand why women don’t think they’re pretty, “amazed” was the wrong word, I’m just saddened. Because honestly, I think ALL of you are, in your own ways.
That sounded hopelessly maudlin, but I’m drunk, starting NYE early.
I have found that one of the good points of being a tall woman(I´m 5 10′, but I live in Spain, and that´s way above average for spanish men), is that the short guys who are interested in me tend to be have a very healthy self steem, think independently and be in the brave side.
I agree with the comment about the ones just below my height being the most likely to have problems with it, they probably had fewer chances to work out whether they are missing opportunities because of prejudices and how much interest they had on their opportunities.
Because in the end attractiveness is a numbers game. Even if you are conventionally pretty, and you manage to impress most people around you, you may fail to do so when it´s important for you. And even if you are ugly for most people you may be someone´s idea of perfection when it matters most (I´m not only talking romantic relationships, but simply the idea that we all like to have people we find good looking around)
And that´s why the comments of passing strangers don´t matter, though when I´m in the mood, I reply with a sweet smile “Thanks, I think you´re ugly, too”
I’ve often been told some variation of, “If you wore make-up, you’d be pretty.” Once I had a boss say it to me, at which point I was like, “____, I am actually wearing make-up today.” Things got even funnier from there. His idea of what make-up looked like included a far brighter shade of lipstick than I was wearing.
Not really shocked. Hell, they’re still trying to revise Jane Austen and say her boyfriend gave her all her creative mojo. A woman accomplishing something will always be threatening to marginalized men (or women) who can’t accomplish anything. Pretty pathetic really, when you think about the underlying motivation.
Oh and whoever listen Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin as exaples is an idiot. They aren’t respected for talent: they’re loved for playing the role of the white male republican ID and saying what they all really want to say (but are too chickenshit to utter aloud) while turning them on and reinforcing their ideals of stupid hawt bitchitude at the same time.
“They aren’t respected for talent: they’re loved for playing the role of the white male republican ID and saying what they all really want to say (but are too chickenshit to utter aloud) while turning them on and reinforcing their ideals of stupid hawt bitchitude at the same time.”
I think the phrase “useful idiots” applies here. Or maybe “kapo”…
I feel fairly comfortable in saying that every living woman, from ca. age 3 to death, receives several daily reminders that she is not, and never can be, pretty enough.
And that not being pretty enough is a serious personal failing that relates directly to her worth as a human being and that she should be very worried about this and do whatever it takes to improve herself.
This is, I think, the most crazy-making part of this particular dynamic.
Zuzu:
You mean like Gaius Baltar?
I picked up on how the series turned that height convention thing on it’s ear from the first episode.
Huh. Interesting thing about Baltar, he is shorter than all the women in his life. I never even noticed. Maybe because I am shorter than about 60% of all women, but honestly, I am glad they didn’t stick him on a box for that photo.
Of course no real woman is pretty enough. She breathes, she excretes, she has pores, her body isn’t consistently twisted into the most provocative-yet-demure possible posture.
But this does seem kinda repetitive. Back in the mid-90s, stripper/writer Lily Burana did a cover story for New York Magazine where she went around to local plastic surgeons and found not a one of them who wasn’t willing to find fault with her body.
The media in general are getting to be almost as bad as the bridal/baby magazines (ahem) that run the same effing articles every twelve months because no on in their subscriber base is aware of what they wrote back then.
Re: snappy comebacks, I find that “fuck off, asshole” in an appropriately threatening tone of voice is a lot easier to remember and generally, more effective than any witty repartee you’re likely to come up with, on the spot.
I think the phrase “useful idiots” applies here. Or maybe “kapo”…
Or “Serena Joy.”
I didn’t notice that all the women that Baltar was with were taller than him until now, but now it occurs to me that the only tall women on that show are Cylons. Except maybe Racetrack.
Which just kind of reinforces the idea that tall women aren’t real women somehow.
My boyfriend is 5′8-10 (no reason to know exactly how tall, but not much more than me) and continually insists that I’m “short.” I keep explaining to him that I’m 5′7″, and therefore about 2 inches taller than average. It’s pretty clear this is an insecurity thing — I think I’m the more traditionally “masculine” of the two of us, and he knows it, so he’s trying to find some way to reclaim that.
Also: Pretty tired of hearing about Diablo Cody already.
Her being a stripper has to do with her being a woman as well. It makes it hard for people to put her into either the role of “just one of the guys” or Princess Peach. So they actually have to deal with her as a living breathing female person rather than as one of the various Smurfette-type stereotypes. Lots of peoples brains explode when presented with this problem.