What a sad headline. It encapsulates all that is wrong with this story, and the justice system in Saudi Arabia, Bush’s partner in Bush’s War on Terror. Life for women in that country is a human rights nightmare.
Women cannot drive, vote, or to appear in public without being accompanied by a male relative. Judgment is harsh for any breach of social and religious norms; in this case the outcry over a rape victim being sentenced to jail and 200 lashes for being alone with another man was so intense that the King pardoned her.
The BBC’s Heba Saleh says the king’s decision to pardon the woman victim is already arousing controversy with some contributors to conservative websites, who say he has breached the rules of religion in order to appease critics in the West.It should be noted that the U.S. has not condemned the Saudi justice system (you think o-i-l has anything to do with this?). I’m sure some of the religious extremists here would like to see women do more than “submit to their husbands” if given the opportunity.Earlier, the woman - who is a Shia Muslim from the Qatif area - had reportedly said she met the man in order to retrieve a photograph of them together, having herself recently got married.
She says two other men then entered the car and took them to a secluded area where others were waiting, and both she and her male companion were raped.
The woman’s companion was sentenced to 90 lashes. It is not known if his sentence was also lifted.
48 Responses to “Saudi king ‘pardons rape victim’”
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How long will it take for some right-winger to raise the specter of the multicultural straw-liberal and ask what us lefties are complaining about? I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a Freeper thread already.
If you’re a woman there, and this is something I just found out today, you cannot even have surgery without your husband’s permission.
I would hate to be a married woman in that country with a condition only surgery could cure and a husband who was angry at me for some reason and wanted to see me suffer.
Sorry, made a little mistake there. A woman needs “a man’s” permission, not necessarily her husband’s. But still…
I honestly don’t know how to feel about this. Everything you say is true, and yet…
The international pressure worked, and the woman has been spared a second horrific assault. I’m extremely relieved by the latter, and encouraged by the former.
I expect some back-room deal took place where the US agreed not to officially speak out in exchange for getting the woman off. That’s how these things often work.
The US is so far ahead of Saudi in this matter — here, the police only prosecute women whose rape complaints they can’t completely substantiate…
This resonates horribly with the KBR thread from last week, especially the comment
about US Navy boot camp, where recruits were taught that a woman who got drunk was criminally responsible for whatever sexual assaults she might suffer at the hands of fellow servicemembers.
I’m glad the woman wasn’t flogged, but that it even had to come to this — with no US government or mainstream media commentary at all — says horrible things about our moral priorities. (And now I’m beginning to wonder how much of the talibanization of the government under Bush is just a mtter of cognitive-dissonance reduction: it’s a lot easier to suck up to the people who supply us with oil if we brainwash ourselves into thinking they have a great moral code…)
I think the worst part of this story is that the judges increased her punishment after the international outcry. Their argument was basically that she shouldn’t have tried to use public opinion to influence the courts.
Classic “oh, so the uppity woman is gonna complain? hit er again, harder! That will show her!” mentality.
There’s nothing good about this story.
They were raped, and while it’s nice they were “pardoned”, that wording is still vile. You can’t be pardoned unless you are guilty.
I hate what’s become of my country. That we don’t speak out against this. That women’s lives and rights have been restricted by our military intervention (invasion) of Iraq. That the Taliban is back practicing it’s lovely form of misogyny.
And that so much of that suffering can not only be laid at our feet, but that so many Americans JUST DON’T CARE.
It was the fucking Saudis who attacked us. Most of the hitchhikers and Osama himself are Saudi nationals. But heaven forbid we say anything against the land of oil.
We stand for nothing but greed.
Seraph writes:
What about all the similar cases where there is no “international pressure” and the woman is NOT spared a second horrific assault? The ONLY reason we know about this is one is that both the woman AND her attorney were willing to stand up to an unconscionable abuse. I would imagine they are both rare situations (the standing up to the abuse, not the abuse itself).
I hope you’re not in favor of an invasion of Saudi Arabia. As bad as things are there, that would be going too far, and any death or suffering of the people there would then be on the U.S.’s head.
The international pressure worked, and the woman has been spared a second horrific assault. I’m extremely relieved by the latter, and encouraged by the former.
I think it really helped to have international backing for the domestic outcry, which was really huge. People inside Saudi Arabia were outraged by the decision, too, and didn’t just stand by or shrug it off.
In cases like this, pretty much the best option for the US government is to do what we did here and put pressure on the government to do what their own people want.
I think the worst part of this story is that the judges increased her punishment after the international outcry.
IIRC, they increased it after the domestic outcry, not the international. It came to international attention because of the increase.
Sorry to be a broken record, but I want to make sure it comes across that the Saudi people were pissed off about the whole thing, too, and didn’t just stand by. There were many internal protests but, sadly, only the international pressure convinced the Saudi government to do anything. Do what their own citizens want? Yeah, right. What part of “absolute monarchy” did they not get?
You want worse, a judge in Saudi Arabia thought she should be executed:
“A Saudi judge, Ibrahim bin Salih Al-Khudairi of the Riyadh Appeals Court, said in an interview published in Okaz newspaper on Nov. 27 that if he were a judge in the Qatif court that he would have sentenced her, her male companion and the seven rapists to death and that they should be lucky that they did not get the death penalty.”
and here’s the response from the Saudi prince at Annapolis:
“During the Annapolis summit meeting, Prince Saud al-Faisal, the foreign minister, faced a barrage of questions about the kingdom’s handling of the case. “What is outraging about this case is that it is being used against the Saudi government and people,” he told reporters.”
In other words he had no problem with the sentence except that it was causing problems. And don’t blame the judges too much for not knowing the law, they’re not taught it:
“But Bander Alnogaithan, a Saudi who finished Harvard Law School, and lives in Boston, said he was sure her increased punishment would be overturned by a higher court because of a series of errors committed by the lower courts.
Judges violated a basic tenet of Islamic law which prevents harming anyone who files an appeal, an error that Mr. Alnogaithan said reflected the poor quality of the religious judges.
“We can’t blame the judges for not knowing the law, as they are picked from Shariah colleges where they mainly focus on general Islamic legal thought and history and don’t study ‘manmade’ laws,” he said”
All in all a lovely place.
Sometimes you take what comfort you can from “at least we helped this time.”
At least we know that international pressure can work. Now we need to keep using it.
“A Saudi judge, Ibrahim bin Salih Al-Khudairi of the Riyadh Appeals Court, said in an interview published in Okaz newspaper on Nov. 27 that if he were a judge in the Qatif court that he would have sentenced her, her male companion and the seven rapists to death and that they should be lucky that they did not get the death penalty.”
Now THAT’s the kind of guy the Reichwing could really get behind. Sounds like he would be a great Rethug presidential candidate. Too bad he’s so foreign and stuff…
No. But the fact that they’re still our good buddies while we attack nations that had nothing to do with 9/11 at random doesn’t speak well of us.
Hey, where’s Rick Santorum to enlighten us on the anti-feminist evils of Islamofascism? I just love listening to that strong supporter of women’s rights.
Why do you feel the need to add this , “I’m sure some of the religious extremists here would like to see women do more than “submit to their husbands” if given the opportunity,” to the end of the story? i think everyone on the blod understands this sentiment because it’s pretty thoroughly meantioned in nearly every thread (since so many more threads have to do with internal rather than international matters). i think we can condemn external sick-as-fuck cultural systems such as the ones described without any tinges of guilt that calls for us all to look inward on this one.
Where are the links to the saudi protests? I must have missed them.
Im sure that the punishment was increased in part because the powers that be there like to crush any sign of a stirring citizenry, however i think the larger part of it is more slippery that just that: they are showing total control over their women (the man has essentially been feminized by the rape). and in the past it seems the more outside pressure other nations or people put upon these guys, the nastier they become & are even more determined to show their control –& again, the women suffer.
And while i have my criticisms about my coutrymen, I doubt that most dont care that women are treated like cattle in these cultures. Upon hearing this stuff, i believe most are sickened. But i also think most people feel impotent in any ways that they might help. Most people hate the Bush admininstration but feel impotent. Most people hate the wife beater down the street but have a limited recourse to stopping it. To put a stop to the second-hand status & abuse of women in a culture halfway around the world that has been going on for centuries…? Only the worst stories reach the papers … but that doesnt change the fact that every aspect of their hatred for women manifests itself in more direct & unblinking ways than it does, even in our rotten system. It’s not going to go away anytime soon, & it’s going to have to be done internally.
With regards to these poor victims, im very afraid that they will be hurt & possibly killed if they stay in SA or anywhere they are outed. They were ambused & taken to waiting men, clerics have denounced the pardons… even though im told there were protests, i believe that a lot of ‘average men on the street’ types will be out for revenge —& to put things to ‘right’. IE, the bitches in their place.
And does anyone know who the rapists were? I’d wager that they were her kin, as revenge is seen as something very personal & as an absolute right of even the lowliest man (especially over a woman’s so-called infraction—like rape. But i know all on this blog already knows this).
There is a recent case in Canada where a father killed his daughter. She was 16 & didnt want to wear a hijab. Didnt want to have a 5pm curfew. Was dissing her family by taking it off at school, wearing makeup, etc… Her friends said she was abused by her family. Her last two weeks, she fled the home & hid out with her friends. They coaxed her back & her father strangled her, with her brother as an accomplice. Why? She was shaming the (men of the) family, of course. It’s a sick culture of hatred towards women, justified with a religion.
ANd the girl was Pakistani or Indian, not Arab. And yes, i realize that fundamentalists of every stripe abound, & yes that women are murdered for various reasons & yes, Nothing is wrong with Islam, its a religion & so is perverted by some just like any religion…but none of this should put a curb to looking at ONE deplorable strain of it & calling it what it is: sick. Without any relativism shit excusing it away.
Sorry for the triple lutz.
Hmmm..
I find this interesting. Here is Pam Spaulding spouting the injustice of it all. Well, Ms Feminists, why aren’t you all flying over to the Saudi Kingdom and straightening things out? After all those women there need rights and justice as well. You are woman, lets hear you roar!
Fix this. This is an injustice against the sisterhood.
President Bush has defamed you, how I don’t know…
Wait… Hillary will save the day! She will speak harsh words to his highness, the islamic puke himself, and they will run and cower in fear.
However, I won’t hold my breath. Feminists are cowards.
And I won’t lift a finger to help the Femmies out. After all being a man, I couldn’t get anything right and womyn are so much more capable.
Justice demands you fix this.
Put your money where your mouth is.
“Justice demands you fix this.”
Actually, Justice demands that you find another blog to troll, Mr. Richards. But since there’s no more justice here than anywhere else IRL, I guess we’re out of luck…
lee richards sounds a lot like a guy from another recent thread..specifically the Nice Guy with the mailorder ninja wife.
Where are the links to the saudi protests? I must have missed them.
I guess you did.
Though considering the load of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim crap you then proceeded to spout, I’m not too surprised you weren’t paying much attention to what actually happened, rather than to what you assumed must have happened given your prejudices.
Justice demands you fix this.
Typical man — comes barging in after all the shouting is over and insists that he would have done a better job, if he’d bothered to get up off his ass and actually do something.
I’m guessing you also tell your wife at the Christmas dinner table in front of the whole family that her turkey is too dry after you spent all day watching football and not lifting a finger to help, right?
Go sit back down, sweetie, and let the women take care of it while you make believe you’re in charge. It’s what you do anyway.
it’s so cute when they let their misogyny show, isn’t it?
However, I won’t hold my breath.
Please do: preferably until you turn blue & pass out.
“Though considering the load of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim crap you then proceeded to spout, I’m not too surprised you weren’t paying much attention to what actually happened, rather than to what you assumed must have happened given your prejudices.
”
Fuck you. Youre the one who doesnt listen, but who has a worn out olf drum to bang, regardless.
Your “saudi protests” from that link amount to one ’saudi writer’ & a pic of someone standing outside of a saudi embassy in India. No internal saudi protests. There’s a mention of “saudi activists” but are they themselves saudi & do they live in SA? Doesnt say.
If you actually meant “saudi protests” as in ‘international outrage directed against the saudis’, then , Wow; big fucking deal. That’s nothing new, & has been going on for years.
“Sorry to be a broken record, but I want to make sure it comes across that the Saudi people were pissed off about the whole thing, too, and didn’t just stand by. There were many internal protests but, sadly, only the international pressure convinced the Saudi government to do anything. Do what their own citizens want? Yeah, right. What part of “absolute monarchy” did they not get? ”
yeah..”many internal protests”. FFffftt.
That the majority of SA citizens think it’s horrible i would believe is true. But that doesnt negate that a deep hatred of women & obessive control of them in that culture pervades the idea that she was innocent, even. Some things need to be changed & all the outside pressure in the world wont change them; it’ll have to come from inside.
If you actually meant “saudi protests” as in ‘international outrage directed against the saudis’, then , Wow; big fucking deal. That’s nothing new, & has been going on for years.
No, I meant protests by Saudi citizens. Of which they were many. Of course, since they live under a repressive absolute monarchy, they didn’t make it onto TV. Funny how that works, huh? I mean, I know that Fidel Castro always makes sure to air footage of people protesting against his government. I know that Saddam Hussein loved to have footage of people protesting against him on the evening news in Baghdad. But if we don’t see footage of protests from Saudi Arabia, that means they never happened.
Oh, and you’re a racist fuck. I notice you didn’t even try to dispute that.
Some things need to be changed & all the outside pressure in the world wont change them; it’ll have to come from inside.
And yet when people do try to change it from the inside, you pretend it never happened. Because of course those wogs will never really change, will they? Can’t trust ‘em with their shifty eyes and stuff.
Again: racist fuck = you.
Because Bush, whom you love, is a traitor who supports that country of rapists and murders.
You, of course, have. You are supporting a traitor. Were there any justice in this nation, you and your kind would get the summary treatment we reserve for such.
I find it amazing that even a troll is dumbfuck enough to complain that good human beings (e.g., everyone but himself) aren’t complaining enough about Saudi Arabia when it’s his political alignment that makes Saudi Arabia’s existence even possible.
Bush is the best thing to happen to the Saudi Arabian piles of human shite that run the country of Saudi Arabia. He is the worst thing to happen to the Saudi Arabian people. See also Pakistan, United States et. al.
lee richards sounds a lot like a guy from another recent thread..specifically the Nice Guy with the mailorder ninja wife.
uh, no. Wrong Person.
Typical man — comes barging in after all the shouting is over and insists that he would have done a better job, if he’d bothered to get up off his ass and actually do something.
Well, I am not the one screaming about men and bush doing horrible things to a woman. That would be you. I just thought you might want to go to saudi arabia and kick some mens butts. But like I said, Feminists are nothing but a bunch of blowhards. Big mouths, no action. Kind of pointless isn’t it?
I’m guessing you also tell your wife at the Christmas dinner table in front of the whole family that her turkey is too dry after you spent all day watching football and not lifting a finger to help, right?
Not even close. My Wife and I, we both cook. I love to cook. My wife is a better cook the me, but I do pretty good. - And the turkey she has made in the past has always been delicious. And if it was dry, I’d probably be the one to blame. She doesn’t make dumb mistakes. She also don’t shoot off he mouth about things she can’t do anything about. She has more brains then that.
Also, my wife loves football. She is partial to the Broncos (even though they had a bad season). She never misses a game. We watch that together. And it isn’t to humor me. She watches them even when I am working and miss a game.
Go sit back down, sweetie, and let the women take care of it while you make believe you’re in charge. It’s what you do anyway.
Go sit down? “In Charge” of what? My home? (well, yes.. me and my wife are in charge of or home) Her? Hardly…, no one in charge over her…
So if you retards cannot go and fix all the ills towards women in the world, then what good are you?
Seems to me that you are good for 2 things….
Shit and Nothing.
That sums up feminism… Just BS. It is no different then the males and men rule you supposedly abhor.
Because Bush, whom you love, is a traitor who supports that country of rapists and murders.
I don’t support Bush. And I don’t support Suadi’s. Islam disgusts me and the religion should be wiped out. Hopefully not by murdering all of them. but by showing them Islam is a sham.
You, of course, have. You are supporting a traitor. Were there any justice in this nation, you and your kind would get the summary treatment we reserve for such.
You suggesting I should be executed? Hmm.. Bush is not a traitor. He is a lot of things, but he is no traitor to this country. He might be a traitor to conservative or perhaps liberal values.
A lot of people on the right say many people on the left should be convicted of being a traitor to this country. Do you suggest they are right as well? I sure as hell don’t.
I find it amazing that even a troll is dumbfuck enough to complain that good human beings (e.g., everyone but himself) aren’t complaining enough about Saudi Arabia when it’s his political alignment that makes Saudi Arabia’s existence even possible.
Bush didn’t make suadi possible. That happened long before he was even born. I don’t consider feminists to good or bad human beings. Just people that are serioulsy deluded or stupid. One of the two, or even both. And I do consider myself a good human being. Of course, there are some that might disagree… you for instance..
Bush is the best thing to happen to the Saudi Arabian piles of human shite that run the country of Saudi Arabia. He is the worst thing to happen to the Saudi Arabian people. See also Pakistan, United States et. al.
Bush has no business running another country besides the United States. If he is running Saudi arabia.. or pakistan.. He is working for the wrong people and should be fired. I am sure he isn’t running those countries. The reason Saudi Arabia remains in the oppressors hands is because the people won’t rise up. Probably because they are out gunned by their military. And probably because they are not allowed to have guns. I am not sure though.
An armed population makes for polite rulers.
If you are disgusted by Bush, and can’t stand anyone else.. Why don’t you take a look at Ron Paul? He wants the government to FOLLOW the constitution. Just like you people…
Unless you think the costutition reserves the right for people to commit perverse acts like most leftists AND most rightists.
I am not political. I gave that up. Now I just like to make fun of both sides of the political spectrum. They are both so stupid, and so wrong and once in a while right enough to make themselves feel smart.
Both sides are just idiocy.
An armed population makes for polite rulers.
** dies laughing at the ridiculousness **
Wow, what a fucking idiot. Makes shit up. Doesn’t understand any political system. Doesn’t understand politics or feminism. Doesn’t care about anyone or anything other than laughing.
Yup, quality person.
Mr. Richards, do you love Islamic terrorists? Are you concerned about what they have done to this country and what they’re planning to do this country? Are you a good, Support The Troops sticker wearin’, Bush-votin’, Real Goddam American?
Then why the fuck don’t you get your ass over there and stop them IslamoFascists? Do you hate this country?
I think this is what you meant to say:
“So if conservative/libertarian Americans like myself cannot go and fix all the ills towards white people in the world, then what good are we?
Seems to me that I’m good for 2 things….
Shit and Nothing.
That sums up me and my conservolibertarians… Just BS. It is no different then the the Islamofascists we supposedly abhor.”
As R. Lee Ermey said in Full Metal Jacket: “It looks to me like the best part of you ran down the crack of your mama’s ass and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress…”
Yeah, because nothing persuades folks to vote for Ron Paul like trolling other websites, shooting your mouth off and then saying “Hey, vote for Ron Paul!”
/snark
It’s funny to hear the “talk is cheap” type comments from Libertarian trolltards.
Women weren’t even allowed to vote until 1920 and feminism has made gains by leaps and bounds to improve the lives of women since then. You don’t effect changes like that individually: you come together in communities and share your ideas and support and build your movement. I’m sure it just seems like useles bitching to outside/hostile parties, but we support one another here and we take that strength outward with us in our daily lives. You get informed and you get strong and you give people information and change minds and THAT is how you bring about the world you want.
But you know all that, or you wouldn’t be so threatened by places like this that you feel the need to troll here. Have fun thinking that it’s pointless to try and change the world and keep living your life trying to be the nail that doesn’t stick out and get hammered. The world will progress whether you help or not.
Good grief, don’t feed it. Let it go back to its imaginary wife.
I’m quite sure Bush et al are heartened by the Saudis’ puppet court system and would like to imitate it.
An armed population makes for polite rulers.
Let’s see…
(I give up - the HTML-fairy just hates me today)
I read on another website (gah … can’t find the link any more) that she was pardoned because the king felt that her punishment had had the desired effect already–meaning that her family has already tried to kill her once, and she’s tried to commit suicide. In other words, she already wants to die, and hey! that’s even better than 200 lashes right?
Seriously, though, what can we do to fix this fucked-up situation?
An article with the news of the pardon was the very first time I saw mention of the fact that the lady was a Shi’a Muslim from Qatif.
Since our friends, the Saudis, practice various oppression against the Shi’a in Arabia, it became immediately clear why this rape occurred in the first place: the rapists knew that the Saudi justice system would not punish them, but it would punish a Shi’a victim!
And so it was.
Islam disgusts me and the religion should be wiped out. Hopefully not by murdering all of them. but by showing them Islam is a sham.
Why stop with Islam? After all, they’re all more or less equal in the sham department.
“No, I meant protests by Saudi citizens. Of which they were many. Of course, since they live under a repressive absolute monarchy, they didn’t make it onto TV.”
Oh yes! And only YOU are privvy to this non-published fact. Again, Fuck You.
“But if we don’t see footage of protests from Saudi Arabia, that means they never happened.”
Any asshole like yourself can just fill the rest of us in with your ‘facts’.
“Oh, and you’re a racist fuck. I notice you didn’t even try to dispute that. ”
Why the fuck would anyone bother disputing the shit you spread? Youre not worth anyone’s time. Youre not here for discourse. You use the blog as your personal latrine & to attack others. You are an asshole.
Does anyone know if the Man with her that was raped too was pardoned? I heard he was getting 90 lashes, just wondered if he was pardoned along with her.
I’ll never understand as long as I live how people can be so bereft of compassion for others….
Bush supports — present tense — state sponsors of terrorism (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.), one of which was directly involved on an attack on American soil, and he does so for self-interested reasons. That is treason.
Bush didn’t make suadi [sic] possible.
Not what I said: I find it amazing that even a troll is dumbfuck enough to complain that good human beings (e.g., everyone but himself) aren’t complaining enough about Saudi Arabia when it’s his political alignment that makes Saudi Arabia’s existence even possible.
Deliberate misreading to create a strawman or mere stupidity? Suppose it hardly matters.
Many of the citizens of oppresive nations are armed to the teeth. Merely owning a gun only makes one powerful in the mastubatory fantasies of right-wing trolls. In reality, modern militaries and police forces are beter armed and, more importantly, better-organized than their citizenry. Owning a gun does fuck-all for creating a revolt.
Unless it helps brown people. Or helps children get an education. I gotta say the bigotry is a bigger sticking point.
This idiocy deserves its own commentary:
Most Iraqis families owned an assault rifle under Saddam’s rule. Unless you’re a complete dumbass, you will conclude that several decades of miltary and logistical support from the U.S. gave Hussein a slight edge over his armed population.