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	<title>Comments on: A conference of hate</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 00:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Daniel Martin</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-475602</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-475602</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How sick is that alliance? It’s tragic that members of any group persecuted by an organization with a history tied to the KKK would lie down with the dogs of the white supremacy movement.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
But far from unprecedented: there's nothing at all unusual about discovering a white supremacist who also believes himself to be a devout Roman Catholic.  Nor is it unusual to discover recent immigrants from Eastern Europe in US white supremacist organizations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>How sick is that alliance? It’s tragic that members of any group persecuted by an organization with a history tied to the KKK would lie down with the dogs of the white supremacy movement.</p></blockquote>
	<p>But far from unprecedented: there&#8217;s nothing at all unusual about discovering a white supremacist who also believes himself to be a devout Roman Catholic.  Nor is it unusual to discover recent immigrants from Eastern Europe in US white supremacist organizations.
</p>
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		<title>by: mythago</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-475404</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-475404</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;To quote Wikipedia&lt;/i&gt;

Well, there's your problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>To quote Wikipedia</i></p>
	<p>Well, there&#8217;s your problem.
</p>
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		<title>by: mythago</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-475403</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-475403</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I can see why a hotel (especially a lawyered up chain) would simply remove all discretion from the management, and require that anyone who can pay who isn’t trying to do something actually illegal has to be accommodated&lt;/i&gt;

That chain should fire its existing lawyers, then, and &quot;lawyer up&quot; with attorneys who know what they're talking about. Big chain hotels are more than capable of developing guidelines for their hospitality departments. I rather doubt those guidelines say &quot;OMFG, unless they're going to burn the place down please rent to them or they might sue us.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I can see why a hotel (especially a lawyered up chain) would simply remove all discretion from the management, and require that anyone who can pay who isn’t trying to do something actually illegal has to be accommodated</i></p>
	<p>That chain should fire its existing lawyers, then, and &#8220;lawyer up&#8221; with attorneys who know what they&#8217;re talking about. Big chain hotels are more than capable of developing guidelines for their hospitality departments. I rather doubt those guidelines say &#8220;OMFG, unless they&#8217;re going to burn the place down please rent to them or they might sue us.&#8221;
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		<title>by: protected static</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474988</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474988</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, IQ tests were originally designed to identify children in need of remedial help in school.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I thought the original IQ tests were developed to screen US draftees in WWI... and that a lot of the early eugenecist literature came out of the results of those tests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Also, IQ tests were originally designed to identify children in need of remedial help in school.</blockquote>
I thought the original IQ tests were developed to screen US draftees in WWI&#8230; and that a lot of the early eugenecist literature came out of the results of those tests.
</p>
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		<title>by: JupiterPluvius</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474984</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474984</guid>
					<description>White supremacists are always their own best counter-argument.  Pathetic losers with nothing to brag about but their susceptibility to sunburn and malaria...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>White supremacists are always their own best counter-argument.  Pathetic losers with nothing to brag about but their susceptibility to sunburn and malaria&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: grendelkhan</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474951</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474951</guid>
					<description>Just to back up &lt;b&gt;Godmonkey&lt;/b&gt; here: the Ashkenazim are (or were up until around the twentieth century) a very distinct group. To quote &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi#Ethnic_definition&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wikipedia&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;For roughly a thousand years, the Ashkenazi were a reproductively isolated population in Europe, despite living in many countries, with little inflow or outflow from migration, conversion, or intermarriage with other groups, including other Jews.&lt;/blockquote&gt; The isolation is the reason that Ashkenazim are susceptible to so many weird hereditary diseases such as Tay-Sachs; it's quite rare for any ethnic group to be that large and to maintain its borders for so long.

Also, IQ tests were originally designed to identify children in need of remedial help in school. They were later adapted to place people on the Great Chain of Being, but it's very much not what they were originally made for, and Binet would be horrified to see it. Quoting &lt;i&gt;The Mismeasure of Man&lt;/i&gt;, an excellent source on the topic:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In summary, [Alfred] Binet insisted upon three cardinal principles for using his [IQ] tests. All his caveats were later disregarded, and his intentions overturned, by the American hereditarians who translated his scale into written form as a routine device for testing all children.

1. The scores are a practical device; they do not buttress any theory of intellect. They do not define anything innate or permanent. We may not designate what they measure as &quot;intelligence&quot; or any other reified entity.

2. The scale is a rough, empirical guide for identifying mildly retarded and learning-disabled children who need special help. It is not a device for ranking normal children.

3. Whatever the cause of difficulty in children identified for help, emphasis shall be placed upon improvement through special training. Low scores shall not be used to mark children as innately incapable.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just to back up <b>Godmonkey</b> here: the Ashkenazim are (or were up until around the twentieth century) a very distinct group. To quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi#Ethnic_definition" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a>:</p>
	<blockquote><p>For roughly a thousand years, the Ashkenazi were a reproductively isolated population in Europe, despite living in many countries, with little inflow or outflow from migration, conversion, or intermarriage with other groups, including other Jews.</blockquote>
 The isolation is the reason that Ashkenazim are susceptible to so many weird hereditary diseases such as Tay-Sachs; it&#8217;s quite rare for any ethnic group to be that large and to maintain its borders for so long.</p>
	<p>Also, IQ tests were originally designed to identify children in need of remedial help in school. They were later adapted to place people on the Great Chain of Being, but it&#8217;s very much not what they were originally made for, and Binet would be horrified to see it. Quoting <i>The Mismeasure of Man</i>, an excellent source on the topic:</p>
	<blockquote><p>In summary, [Alfred] Binet insisted upon three cardinal principles for using his [IQ] tests. All his caveats were later disregarded, and his intentions overturned, by the American hereditarians who translated his scale into written form as a routine device for testing all children.</p>
	<p>1. The scores are a practical device; they do not buttress any theory of intellect. They do not define anything innate or permanent. We may not designate what they measure as &#8220;intelligence&#8221; or any other reified entity.</p>
	<p>2. The scale is a rough, empirical guide for identifying mildly retarded and learning-disabled children who need special help. It is not a device for ranking normal children.</p>
	<p>3. Whatever the cause of difficulty in children identified for help, emphasis shall be placed upon improvement through special training. Low scores shall not be used to mark children as innately incapable.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Godmonkey</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474860</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474860</guid>
					<description>How many times do I have to cop to being North-Americacentric? &lt;b&gt;You are right.&lt;/b&gt; In my defense, I again point out that it is the Ashkanazim who, apparently, have statistically high IQs, and so are relevant to the discussion at hand.

My point was that this is clearly a result of their culture, not their ethnicity, since their basic ethnicity is shared with non-Jews.     </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How many times do I have to cop to being North-Americacentric? <b>You are right.</b> In my defense, I again point out that it is the Ashkanazim who, apparently, have statistically high IQs, and so are relevant to the discussion at hand.</p>
	<p>My point was that this is clearly a result of their culture, not their ethnicity, since their basic ethnicity is shared with non-Jews.
</p>
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		<title>by: MikeEss</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474829</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474829</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;You do realize that such would be a crime, and might even be a felony in some states.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

My god, Dana, do you have to take everything so literally?  Chill out - Tommykey was talking about cosmic justice, not advocating literal action...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;You do realize that such would be a crime, and might even be a felony in some states.&#8221;</i></p>
	<p>My god, Dana, do you have to take everything so literally?  Chill out - Tommykey was talking about cosmic justice, not advocating literal action&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: MikeEss</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474826</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474826</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Thing is, there are all sorts of opinions out there — and if this chain had had the discretion to refuse to rent to this particular advocacy group, why couldn’t another one refuse to rent to a same-sex couple celebrating their civil union? It really does cut both ways.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

If the Grand Dragon of the KKK wanted to have a dinner in honor of George Lincoln Rockwell at the same hotel, would that be just another expression of 1st Amendment rights and perfectly okay with you?  What if they were openly advocating the extermination of all catholics (which you are, as I recall, Mr. Pico)?

A gay couple celebrating an anniversary are not advocating hate.  They are not seeking to limit the rights of others.  

OTOH, racists and other bigots ARE advocating hate, either by implication, or far more overtly.  

I think this is where the US needs a &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakers_corner&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;speakers' corner&lt;/a&gt;&quot; like the British.  A place where any lunatic can spout of any nonsensical droolings about any subject they want, as long as they stay civil.  (Perhaps the Internet could be considered the modern equivalent.)

I don't want to take away anybody's right to be an ass.  I just don't want the hate to spread any further than necessary...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;Thing is, there are all sorts of opinions out there — and if this chain had had the discretion to refuse to rent to this particular advocacy group, why couldn’t another one refuse to rent to a same-sex couple celebrating their civil union? It really does cut both ways.&#8221;</i></p>
	<p>If the Grand Dragon of the KKK wanted to have a dinner in honor of George Lincoln Rockwell at the same hotel, would that be just another expression of 1st Amendment rights and perfectly okay with you?  What if they were openly advocating the extermination of all catholics (which you are, as I recall, Mr. Pico)?</p>
	<p>A gay couple celebrating an anniversary are not advocating hate.  They are not seeking to limit the rights of others.  </p>
	<p>OTOH, racists and other bigots ARE advocating hate, either by implication, or far more overtly.  </p>
	<p>I think this is where the US needs a &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakers_corner" rel="nofollow">speakers&#8217; corner</a>&#8221; like the British.  A place where any lunatic can spout of any nonsensical droolings about any subject they want, as long as they stay civil.  (Perhaps the Internet could be considered the modern equivalent.)</p>
	<p>I don&#8217;t want to take away anybody&#8217;s right to be an ass.  I just don&#8217;t want the hate to spread any further than necessary&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Dana</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474817</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/17/a-conference-of-hate/#comment-474817</guid>
					<description>Tommykey wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, if there’s any justice, the Latino cooking staff will spit in the food they cook for the American Renaissance conference attendees.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You do realize that such would be a crime, and might even be a felony in some states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tommykey wrote:</p>
	<blockquote><p>Well, if there’s any justice, the Latino cooking staff will spit in the food they cook for the American Renaissance conference attendees.</p></blockquote>
	<p>You do realize that such would be a crime, and might even be a felony in some states.
</p>
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