Posted by Amanda Marcotte December 15, 2007 in Uncategorized, Asides, Assholes
There’s something kind of sad about the way she thrives on the good opinion of men who really, really hate women. Because that’s got no chance of blowing up in her face or anything like that.
26 Responses to “Dr. Helen panders to the Nice Guys®”
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She thrives on it, because she is still under the mistaken impression that women exist to compete against each other for the favors of men AND that she does this better than you do.
Such women scream loudest when you point out that you aren’t interested in playing their little game because it is stupid.
It’s all very strange. If I had the favors of the men she attracts to her comments, I’d feel dirty. Like bathe for 3 weeks to get the stench off dirty.
She is a Quisling of the lowest order. I simply can’t figure out how she feels she is doing ANYBODY, men or women, or service with her enabling.
I pray her daughter figures it out.
Some SF author’s wife attracted her ire: said woman delivered a tasty smackdown to “the Insta-wife”. That was a Good Day.
I bet Dr. Helen takes it as a huge compliment when people tell her she thinks like a man.
Except that she doesn’t think like a man. She thinks like an asshole.
Well, yes, but it’s also the kind of thing creepy, misogynist men think of as a compliment, and creepy, misogynist-enabling women take as one.
I went all the way back to Helen’s site and read the whole thing, and wow, that’s a nice non-sequitor. Plus, I’m pretty sure that refusing to date because someone, sometime might divorce you and you may get the shaft and you’re waiting for someone who can virtually guarantee that you’ll always have the upper hand in that power play that is your relationship counts as “fussiness.”
I don’t get this meme that “men are choosing not to marry in large numbers because of the court system” Do the MRA’s think they have that much of an effect?
Social science research shows that men, on the whole, want to be married as much as OR MORE THAN women do. George Clooney might be choosing not to marry, but Mr. Clooney is in an almost unprecedented position of privilege: handsome, wealthy, famous. The MRA’s are George Clooney IN THEIR DREAMS.
As for Dr. Helen, as Eric said, she’s a quisling. And she ought to heed what happened to the real Quisling: he was executed. You can kiss the ass of the patriarchy all you want, but at most you get mascot status.
The old dictum that women don’t want a nice guy is essentially true. From my extensive experience, women want an interesting guy who listens, carries himself with class and style, and is emotionally independent. It is fully within the power of a man to become all of those things.
This puzzled me. Why is { nice } not equal to { an interesting guy who listens, carries himself with class and style, and is emotionally independent } ????
Inquiring only.
Arun, it has often happened in the past that certain men preface long misogynistic diatribes with some reference to being or having been a nice guy. There’s such a remarkable correlation between a man thinking of himself as a nice guy and actually holding extremely misogynistic opinions that the moniker NiceGuy ™ is now reserved for them.
Guys who are actually nice don’t need to go around telling people all the time, and usually aren’t as bitter as NiceGuys tend to be.
I’m sorry. I’m still trying to figure out why it’s bad that guys who don’t like women are purposefully not getting married. I mean, seriously, is that a trick question?
Eileen, thank you! I do have a further question. Is the NiceGuy ™ purely a misogynist or is generally a misanthrope?
There’s also the (anti-feminist) idea that the only quality a woman should demand from a man is “niceness.” Never mind wanting a man who is attractive, interesting, hard-working, compatible on essential issues, etc. - no, if you are a woman your only criterion should be NICE or else you are a fussbudget who deserves to die alone with a houseful of cats.
I really don’t see how “an interesting guy who listens, carries himself with class and style, and is emotionally independent” can’t also be a decent human being (as opposed to a Nice Guy ™ ).
Clearly, because “dr.” helen’s career — her movie about girl killers, her publicizing her persistent idea that men/boys are societal victims, her blog itself — relies so much on her husband’s Insta success, she projects this view on all other women.
She is a denier to the nth degree — even her heart attack was not because of her lifestyle, diet or genes — she was just one of the random ones it struck, like catching a heart attack as a bug.
Not accepting responsibility is not pretty in anyone, but the “men” who choose to listen to her are doooming themselves to forever stay within her victim web; she needs them to support her social theories.
My favorite was when the NYT earlier this year interviewed “boys” who were not making the grade at college. Turns out, they chose not to do the work and did not put the time into studies like the female students. They were ok with that, accepting what they earned gradewise. They just believed the grades, the classes inconsequential.
It really shot to hell her theory that it was somehow a big woman-based plot in the classroom to hold the “boys” back and cater to the female students. If you’ve built your career setting yourself off from women who worked their way up, of course you’ll be protective of your status.
It’s understandable, and even makes you pity her … just a bit:
Being the “instawife” is probably not all that it’s cracked up to be — particularly when the Big Guy notes online she relies on his freebie publisher review books, or that she’s a princess who can’t wash a dish (he’s always complaining about the non-dishwasher safe stuff that gets ruined at home)
Thankfully, I understand they both are just raising a daughter, so their “boy-victim” influence won’t travel too far too long.
America still needs Real Men, defined as those who take responsibility for their actions and reject the inherent victim label when things go south, merely because they are blessed with a penis.
i seem to be brain-fried tonight. Apparently that link Amanda provided is giving everyone else here access to something about this “Dr. Helen” (about whom I have the good fortune to have no brain cells devoted to, so I have no clear idea who she is) but when I click it I get a page of alicublog that doesn’t seem to mention her or this kind of story anywhere.
Oh well, I don’t really have anything to add anyway.
But I wonder if everyone else is getting something completely different from what I do, and why that might be, for future reference.
Mark Foxwell… I’m linking to the wrong thing too. I had to google search Dr. Helen and then look for references to nice guys to get what was going on.
Is the NiceGuy ™ purely a misogynist or is generally a misanthrope?
The NiceGuy ™ is generally just a misogynist I’m afraid, and often congregates with groups of other NiceGuys ™ for support.
Thanks, Eileen.
An essential college survival tip is, when you haven’t actually done the reading you were supposed to, show up in class anyway, look wise, and, hoping to pick up enough from professor and classmates’ discussion and whatever passages you can furtively read while they are under discussion, either 1) do the wise thing and say as little as possible, but fake it with aplomb if called on or 2) the foolhardy thing of offering strong opinions and interpretations based on the half-baked impression you’ve got from this hasty browsing plus generic prior knowledge, and hope you will be heard as bold and fresh rather than a lazy/distracted idiot.
I am not nearly as wise as my wisdom.
And my well-trained, doublethinking ability to do this has eroded for whatever reason–brain decay, being more honest with myself, humility, whatever–so I don’t go to college classes anymore.
Just not up to it tonight. Dr Helen, bad, OK that seems reasonable. thnxskbye!
There’s also the (anti-feminist) idea that the only quality a woman should demand from a man is “niceness.”
And the only quality that a woman possesses worth actually wanting is sex.
Clearly, because “dr.” helen’s career — her movie about girl killers, her publicizing her persistent idea that men/boys are societal victims, her blog itself — relies so much on her husband’s Insta success, she projects this view on all other women.
She is a denier to the nth degree — even her heart attack was not because of her lifestyle, diet or genes — she was just one of the random ones it struck, like catching a heart attack as a bug.
Not accepting responsibility is not pretty in anyone, but the “men” who choose to listen to her are doooming themselves to forever stay within her victim web; she needs them to support her social theories.
My favorite was when the NYT earlier this year interviewed “boys” who were not making the grade at college. Turns out, they chose not to do the work and did not put the time into studies like the female students. They were ok with that, accepting what they earned gradewise. They just believed the grades, the classes inconsequential.
It really shot to hell her theory that it was somehow a big woman-based plot in the classroom to hold the “boys” back and cater to the female students. If you’ve built your career setting yourself off from women who worked their way up, of course you’ll be protective of your status.
It’s understandable, and even makes you pity her … just a bit:
Being the “instawife” is probably not all that it’s cracked up to be — particularly when the Big Guy notes online she relies on his freebie publisher review books, or that she’s a princess who can’t wash a dish (he’s always complaining about the non-dishwasher safe stuff that gets ruined at home)
Ailurophile–
Fussbudget…wow, you don’t hear that one much, and I’m loving the sound of it. If wanting a man who is “attractive, interesting, hard-working, compatible on essential issues, etc.” makes one a fussbudget, well then, I’m not just a fussbudget, I’m a Fussbudget ™
Dr. Helen saddens me. With a wrathful sadness.
Lucy van Pelt, from “Peanuts,” was referred to as a fussbudget–other than that, I haven’t heard it used much. A lot of what Dr. Helen was citing her “men are being told not to get married” from was from the UK, so maybe it’s a more common term over there.
“The NiceGuy ™ is generally just a misogynist I’m afraid, and often congregates with groups of other NiceGuys ™ for support.”
A lot of them seem to serve up a side order of misandry into the bargain, but rarely in portions big enough to qualify them as a general misanthrope. It’s usually just there to shore up their position as a martyr to their niceness or underpin the idea that niceness in a man is something so rare and special that it alone ought to earn them all the pussy they can stand.
NiceGuys ™ don’t have the fine integrity of spirit to be truly misanthropic. They’re just narcissitic clueless whiners upset that they Can’t Get The Girl.
“Clueless” is a good word, too.
What amazes me is how quickly the “nice guy” facade drops and the swears and hateful words emerge once they’re rejected.
A real “nice guy” doesn’t change colors that fast.
In those cases, I suspect it was a farce all along. Men like that want to put you in a box, tell you how they want you to be, and think true love is purchaseable. “Every Kiss begins with Kay (jewelers)” Sad. But even more sad are the women and children they leave in their wake.
I wish they’d just stick with the blow-up girls, or purchase their sex more directly. Hey now, there’s a thought.
That is why the old saying goes, Nice Guys ™ don’t win. This rings especially true in relationships with a woman.
I gonna consider myself a Mean Guy ™.