Huckabee and Romney are going to the mat over his Mormon beliefs. Oh, it’s tasty, because WingNutDaily used this to move in for the fundie kill. Tee hee.
Satan has reared his ugly head in the 2008 presidential campaign - literally.Perhaps Satan is running the Romney campaign. Take a look at this, and protect your keyboards. (via Sully, h/t oddjob).Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee has prompted angry denunciations of religious bigotry by rival Mitt Romney as well as an official retort from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for speculating in a New York Times Magazine interview this weekend that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were brothers.
Stirred by the debate, the Associated Press sought clarification from Kim Farah, a spokeswoman from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
She said the question is usually raised by those who wish to smear the Mormon faith, but she evaded a direct answer to the question: “We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for.”
More to the point, the official website of the LDS church explicitly makes the sibling connection between Jesus and Lucifer a matter of official Mormon doctrine.
Voters of Iowa, Mitt Romney is desperate to let you know that when it comes to family values, he’s the family value-est. Both Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee are in favor of a constitutional amendment to only allow normal people to get married, but did you know that only Mitt Romney raised the stakes and now wants the amendment to say that only heterosexual couples have the right to own property, to vote, or to have the latest cool gadgets. You may have heard that Mitt Romney supported gay marriage when he was the governor of Massachusetts, but that means that only Mitt Romney knows how gay marriage has devastated that state. The streets are filled with orphans in Massachusetts, and giant rats feed on the flesh of the few remaining survivors. Mitt Romney is opposed to giant gay flesh eating rats, Mike Huckabee loves them.
And that thing Mike Huckabee wanted to do — putting AIDS patients in camps — Mitt Romney would go one better…not just rounding up atheists, but also using waterboarding to see who’s a believer and who isn’t.
Mitt Romney…you used to like him.
32 Responses to “Could it be…SATAN heading for the White House?”
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And here I was hoping for a really substantive debate, like whether sprinkling water on an infant fulfills god’s requirements as a proper baptism, or whether a full immersion at some later date is the only acceptable form of baptism.
Oh, and does the wafer REALLY become Jesus’ flesh and the wine his blood, or are they just symbolic gestures to remind us of his sacrifice for our sins?…
We need to know! Souls are at risk!…
I know most people here don’t buy any of the theology involved, but the theology of this should be a non-issue all round. Christian doctrine is that all humans are Jesus’s brothers and sisters, too, by virtue of being created by God. Angels were created by God, and Satan is a (fallen) angel, so it really isn’t a stretch to say that Satan is Jesus’s brother. I haven’t seen anyone trying to claim that Satan is Jesus’s EQUAL.
There is news, of course, in one group trying to spin something that they themselves profess to believe (or that follows logically from their own premises) into a weapon to bash someone else with.
The best, and therefore most unlikely, response from the Romney campaign, (or the LDS hierarchy, for that matter) would be “we believe God created everyone. Why, what do you believe?”
By the way, that Romney ad is hilarious, but it is worth pointing out in your intro to it that it is a parody, and at the end of it, it makes that clear. (not, I hope, that anyone on these boards shouldn’t be more than able to figure that out on their own!)
Sweet Lord, Jesus Christ, Krishna-ji, and Buddha!
Mormons, including I assume Mitt, have some very unorthodox beliefs (to say the least), but seeing as how my Episcopalian ass isn’t voting for Presiding Bishop this year, I can’t imagine anything less relevant. Now I wouldn’t vote for Mitt or Huckleberry because they’re pandering, reactionary douchebags. Their religious beliefs are relevant only to the extant that it controls their aforementioned reactionary, pandering douchebaggery.
Now if Mitt starts talking about making everyone wear funny underwear and eliminating beer and diet Cokes from grocery stores I can only say, “You can take this diet Coke from my cold, dead hands heretic!”
Love the video, Pam. Particularly liked the picture of Mitt putting on the rubber glove while the voice-over discussed his past support for gay marriage!
I don’t understand Huckabee’s ridiculous feel-good kindergarten theology at all. Of course if God is the omnipotent, omniscient creator of everything, then hurricanes and tornadoes are part of his work just like everything else is. Of course if God created everything including the angels and humanity, then Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. That just seems obvious from the story of Lucifer.
Mormonism Research Ministry just released:
The Relationship Between Jesus and Lucifer in a Mormon Context
I’m sorry, I was under the impression that SATAN already HAD the White House.
Job 1:6 includes Satan among the sons of god, which, naturally, would make him the brother of Jesus
Love the video, Pam. Particularly liked the picture of Mitt putting on the rubber glove while the voice-over discussed his past support for gay marriage!
In a fudge shop…hee hee, the sign said fudge [/butthead]
“Only allow NORMAL people to marry”?
Then the red states would be producing even more bastards than they do now.
If normal is the mean, progressive beliefs are held by th majority of U.S. citizens, and the wacko wingnuts are in the crazy minority.
The red states are such a mess morally now — more divorce, teen pregnancies and so on and so forth than the blue — that only allowing the “normal” to marry would mean that Las Vegas drive-in wedding chapels will go bankrupt.
rea -
Actually, most of the translations I’ve seen are pretty clear that the “sons of God” came to see him and “Satan came along with them” or some similar wording. All English translations, though - I don’t speak Hebrew so maybe it reads differently in the original.
Regardless, do you think that the Athenians had to put up with this sort of crap in their elections? I wonder if there were battles between sects that thought that Aphrodite coalesced out of sea foam fought battles with splitters that insisted she sprouted from Zeus’s groin.
The controversy over whether Satan an Jesus were brothers reminds me of two geeks arguing over whether Hal Jordan or Kyle Rayner is the better Green Lantern.
These are the sort of fun-filled and informative debates you get when candidates run in a theocracy. yay.
The controversy over whether Satan an Jesus were brothers reminds me of two geeks arguing over whether Hal Jordan or Kyle Rayner is the better Green Lantern.
Or better yet, the ever eternal debate of who should have shot first, Han Solo, or Gredo;)
Don’t know if you’ve seen this already but here’s a link to a great article in the HuffPo about Lawrence O’Donnell calling out Mitt Romney’s racist Mormon beliefs up *until 1978* .
I personally think much needed, and valid question for Mitt would be to ask if that if he were president and the current Mormon Prophet was to make a declaration about X (say, segregation needed to be reinstated, or that blacks were inferior again) would he have to follow it. Especially on the spot in a public forum. Maybe there’s a way to get around it, but I’d love to hear what he’d have to say.
This whole Satan-as-Jesus’-brother thing is just another of those hostile half-truths that fundies spin about other faiths, like when they say to Catholics, “Oh, you worship Mary, don’t you?”
That said, I can’t think of any two groups who deserve each other more than fundies and Mormons.
“That said, I can’t think of any two groups who deserve each other more than fundies and Mormons.”
I see it as a brief glimpse into a future theocratic America.
Once they succeed in subjugating the DFH’s, the atheists, the left in general, and non-christian religionists, then the REAL work begins: Determining once and for all which version of christianity will rule over all the rest.
With the southern baptists currently in the lead for Christian Overlords, all you catholics, lutherans, presbyterians, etc., better brace yourselves for coming onslaught. And there won’t be any ACLU or anything else like it to stand on your side…
One thing that drives people crazy about the ACLU is that they will support just about anyone who has been wronged. No matter who they are.
It gets maddening but even evil people can be wronged.
Although hasn’t there been people that they haven’t represented? I can’t imagine who.
BTW: Dan Abrams is doing a fantastic job of exposing the twisting of the judicial branch the Bushist’s have done. If you are in doubt whether Satan is in control of the White House, watch them. Cheney is the Anti-christ and is he pissed…
First installment
Second installment
Third installment
From Crooksandliars.com
I actually, perversely, find this reassuring. If Theocratic America ever does emerge (which may God, Goddess, Dog, Doggess, FSM, the Disco Cat and Whoever I may have left off forbid) the theocrats will tear themselves apart working out the niceties of dogma. You can’t even get Catholics to agree with each other, much less Protestants or Mormons.
And all of Satan’s evil deeds in the book of Job are ordered by God himself. That neither Mormons nor Christians will acknowledge.
And don’t both Satan and Jesus use the name Son of the Morning star at some point?
Who’s the better captain, Kirk or Picard? It’s Sisko, of course!
#
Who’s the better captain, Kirk or Picard? It’s Sisko, of course!
Hells yeah! DSN in the house! Wait, what were we talking about?
I really hope that no one asks Mitt that what if? question. It’s much too close to the whole “Pope running the country” issue that dogged every Catholic canidate from Al Smith to John Kerry (the latter being more hammered for why he WOULDN’T let the Pope run the country, but the principle is the same). No slavish devotee of Pope or Prophet-President is going to be running for U.S. President. Anyone with that ambition is going to want to listen to anyone at all.
Also I generally loathe the idea that every religious or philosophical person is responsible for every weird or stupid thing said by any leading authority at any time. We have enough contemporary religious b.s. without needing to dredge up previous and now repudiated doctrines. Do all Lutheran canidates have to answer for Martin Luther’s anti-semitism even if they have never shown any signs of anti-semitism personally? Do atheists have to answer for Ayn Rand ? If not, I don’t see why Mormons have to answer for polygamy and past racism. Present-day racism or sexism among Mormons should be pointed out of course.
And religious authority issues are a red-herring. Intelligent people, whatever they might believe theologically, aren’t just going to slavishly follow religious leaders, especially if they aspire to high political office (where they will more likely just slavishly follow their campaign contributors or political advisors).
And Hal Jordan is obviously a better Green Latern. As if that were even a question. And Sisko kicks all the other capitains’ asses.
Sirkowski,
I don’t know who you’ve been talking to, but it’s hardly a big secret that God agrees to the torrments of Job (the torrments are Satan’s idea, God willingly goes along with it). Along with the binding of Issac, it’s one of the most profoudly uncomfortable things for religious folks to deal with. Denial isn’t high on responses I’ve seen for those two. Just a lot of mumbling and clichés about not knowing the mind of God.
And the issues expressed in Job are an entire branch of theology (the theodicy question). Mind you theodicy is the acid test separating the men/women from the boys/girls in religion.
No votes for Janeway?
Honestly, when I saw the title of this post, I have expected to see a photo of Dana Carvey’s “Church Lady” with that LOOK on her face…
I was thrilled at the thought of evengelical authoritarians staying home rather than vote for Romney…but Huckabee’s slur raises the possibility of Mormons staying home if Huckabee gets the nomination. Either way, America wins!
Heh. Indeed.
I’d be in for Janeway. Although, I’ve been recently watching the Alias series and I am of the opinion that Irina Derevko would kick all their asses.
As far as the mythology discussion, I’m laying my lot with the Moirae. Even the gods feared them.
Well, all the giant gay flesh-eating rats of Boston are currently buried in snow.
I’ll be sure to bring a shovel next time a leave the house, so I can defend myself. Or do they only eat straight people? Inquiring minds need to know!
Do all Lutheran canidates have to answer for Martin Luther’s anti-semitism even if they have never shown any signs of anti-semitism personally? Do atheists have to answer for Ayn Rand ? If not, I don’t see why Mormons have to answer for polygamy and past racism.
Well, considering that the Mormon church believed (and some probably still do) that dark skinned people are evil, and the Mormon prophet didn’t allow black members of the church until 1971, and Mitt Romney was 31 at the time I do think he should have to further explain his beliefs. He was a grown adult and in his recent speech he says he still believes in the “faith of his fathers” which was undoubtedly of racism then yes, I’d like an explanation about that. He could cover that he “knows better” now, but the cynic I am would think it was more political than anything, and that he does in fact still hold these beliefs.
Then again, this is the Republican party we’re talking about, so perhaps on second thought there is no explanation necessary.
And lets not forget that there are those (*coughMelGibsoncough*) who still do hold some very racist and sexist beliefs that were once held by their religious founders.
Oh man, what a big can of worms. I understand everyone’s points above about how religion *is* relevant in Huck’s and Romney’s cases, but…this is creepy. Does the Jesus/Lucifer question have any bearing on Romney’s domestic or foreign policy? How isn’t this a religious test for public office?
histrogeek, I didn’t say that what’s in the book of Job a secret. But that believers won’t acknowledge that God is being evil in it.
but did you know that only Mitt Romney raised the stakes and now wants the amendment to say that only heterosexual couples have the right to own property, to vote, or to have the latest cool gadgets.
wait. quoi? when did that go down?
I don’t see how, but I can really, really see how the theology of someone who is explicitly running as a religon-trumps-all candidate who, say, believes that Armageddon is nigh, and that the responsibility of the President is to lead the country during the End Times.
A real case can be made that some of the Bush Administration decisions only make sense seen through that lens.