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	<title>Comments on: But the war boosters will never face up to what their enthusiasm has given us</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473273</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473273</guid>
					<description>I have to say, although our overzealous small-town suburban Illinois cops were annoying as hell to deal with (they were all issued a stick to shove up their own asses, I think), at least when came up to our parked car and saw me crying during a (verbal) fight with my boyfriend, they removed him from the car, walked him out of earshot, and asked me if everything was okay.  And they weren't completely willing to take an automatic &quot;yes&quot; as an answer.

Of course, I'm white and middle-class and was living in a very affluent suburb.  I was clearly a &quot;real&quot; citizen in their eyes and therefore worthy of protection.  Friends of mine who dared cross the border from Detroit into the surrounding suburbs?  Not so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have to say, although our overzealous small-town suburban Illinois cops were annoying as hell to deal with (they were all issued a stick to shove up their own asses, I think), at least when came up to our parked car and saw me crying during a (verbal) fight with my boyfriend, they removed him from the car, walked him out of earshot, and asked me if everything was okay.  And they weren&#8217;t completely willing to take an automatic &#8220;yes&#8221; as an answer.</p>
	<p>Of course, I&#8217;m white and middle-class and was living in a very affluent suburb.  I was clearly a &#8220;real&#8221; citizen in their eyes and therefore worthy of protection.  Friends of mine who dared cross the border from Detroit into the surrounding suburbs?  Not so much.
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		<title>by: Betty Boondoogle</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473270</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473270</guid>
					<description>This is so adorable:

&quot;“Betty Boondoggle” must be some fancy foreign language for “student of theory who can’t read”.

Listen, honey, put the books down and look through the tread for something other than that which “proves” whatever theory you were just reading about in class.&quot;

NOt a single shred of a hint what the hell got his panties in a twist, but apparently I'm a college student because I posted something crybaby didn't like.

*LOL*  Trolls are fun. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is so adorable:</p>
	<p>&#8220;“Betty Boondoggle” must be some fancy foreign language for “student of theory who can’t read”.</p>
	<p>Listen, honey, put the books down and look through the tread for something other than that which “proves” whatever theory you were just reading about in class.&#8221;</p>
	<p>NOt a single shred of a hint what the hell got his panties in a twist, but apparently I&#8217;m a college student because I posted something crybaby didn&#8217;t like.</p>
	<p>*LOL*  Trolls are fun.
</p>
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		<title>by: pussy tourmaline</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473234</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473234</guid>
					<description>&quot; I’ll never really understand why so many men hate women so much. I can predict it, describe it, diagnose it, whatever. But really grasp it? I just can’t. &quot;

I just feel whipped, sometimes, when confronting this. all i could do is tear up from frusration, when i read this. because it's everywhere, every day, in so many guises; it is the sad truth.

i havent been able to bring myself to read much of the thread yet, but i did click on the 20/20 article &amp;amp; --&amp;amp; im sickened by how they have tricked her out with make-up &amp;amp; felt the need to disclose she had 'vaginal &amp;amp; anal' penetration...this wouldnt be an issue, just stating facts, in a truly equal world. but in this instance, i think theyre tying to be sexually titilating. fucking rot in hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8221; I’ll never really understand why so many men hate women so much. I can predict it, describe it, diagnose it, whatever. But really grasp it? I just can’t. &#8221;</p>
	<p>I just feel whipped, sometimes, when confronting this. all i could do is tear up from frusration, when i read this. because it&#8217;s everywhere, every day, in so many guises; it is the sad truth.</p>
	<p>i havent been able to bring myself to read much of the thread yet, but i did click on the 20/20 article &amp; &#8211;&amp; im sickened by how they have tricked her out with make-up &amp; felt the need to disclose she had &#8216;vaginal &amp; anal&#8217; penetration&#8230;this wouldnt be an issue, just stating facts, in a truly equal world. but in this instance, i think theyre tying to be sexually titilating. fucking rot in hell.
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		<title>by: ginmar</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473232</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473232</guid>
					<description> RKMK, I know plenty of troops, too, and there's a lot of good people amongst them. And I've been in sixteen years. Military colleges are hotbeds for privilege and all sorts of assholishness. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>RKMK, I know plenty of troops, too, and there&#8217;s a lot of good people amongst them. And I&#8217;ve been in sixteen years. Military colleges are hotbeds for privilege and all sorts of assholishness.
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		<title>by: RKMK</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473224</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473224</guid>
					<description>&lt;b&gt;RobW, Sushi No Gakusei&lt;/b&gt;, thanks for your comment; when I was young and foolish and 19, I was excited to start university in the same town that held the national military college. &quot;Men! In uniforms&quot; I sighed, as did many of the women in my all-girls residence.

Four years later, the honeymoon was long over. I had been roofied once (though escaped unharmed), and two of my good friends had been raped, a number of women involved with the military students were in abusive relationships. The conquest/pack mentality, the &quot;othering&quot; of women, the blind loyalty. The one friend who reported her rape was instantly besieged by instant messages from &quot;friends&quot;: &quot;Oh, c'mon, M! Don't do this, you'll ruin his career! Besides, it wasn't &lt;i&gt;rape&lt;/i&gt;, it was date rape, if anything!&quot;

I'm sick every time some politician spouts pseudo-patriotic spiel about &quot;supporting the troops.&quot; No, actually, I don't: I know far too many of them personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>RobW, Sushi No Gakusei</b>, thanks for your comment; when I was young and foolish and 19, I was excited to start university in the same town that held the national military college. &#8220;Men! In uniforms&#8221; I sighed, as did many of the women in my all-girls residence.</p>
	<p>Four years later, the honeymoon was long over. I had been roofied once (though escaped unharmed), and two of my good friends had been raped, a number of women involved with the military students were in abusive relationships. The conquest/pack mentality, the &#8220;othering&#8221; of women, the blind loyalty. The one friend who reported her rape was instantly besieged by instant messages from &#8220;friends&#8221;: &#8220;Oh, c&#8217;mon, M! Don&#8217;t do this, you&#8217;ll ruin his career! Besides, it wasn&#8217;t <i>rape</i>, it was date rape, if anything!&#8221;</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m sick every time some politician spouts pseudo-patriotic spiel about &#8220;supporting the troops.&#8221; No, actually, I don&#8217;t: I know far too many of them personally.
</p>
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		<title>by: ginmar</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473219</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473219</guid>
					<description>  I've found that as a woman who &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; do shit, you do get shat on and attacked. I still do it. I've gotten used to it. I was in a bookstore when I watched the teenager next to me stick a magazine in his jacket. Now, I worked in a bookstore myself and I hated shoplifters, so this was no big jump.  I used to tackle shoplifters every day, and I just used to get so irritated at them, because they just took what they wanted, while I had to work for what I wanted. Most of our shoplifters were arrogant little suburban shits whose parents were just &lt;i&gt; sure&lt;/i&gt; we were wrong about their babies. And you know what? Attitude makes you six inches taller and twice as intimidating. As a woman, I found out that guys are subliminally afraid of women, and that's a fear I encouraged. This guy was my size, so I knew I had nothing to fear. 

   &quot;Are you gonna pay for that?&quot;

  &quot;What's it to you?&quot;

  &quot;It's stealing, asshole. Put it back.&quot; 

  Dumbest motherfucker ever. There was a cop right outside the store.  He tried to stare me down, then he put it down and ran, right into the cop.  

  Every time I've done it, I've gotten threatened and menaced. But I can't live with myself otherwise. After combat, I've even more sure of taking on assholes. What are they going to do to me, shoot me? I can take anything they have away from them. 

 I remember calling the cops about my neighbor downstairs, who was beating his wife. The LAPD declined to come,  saying that it was a 'private' or a 'domestic' matter. Only when the owner of the building called---because the now-ejected man had kicked down the door---did the cops take him seriously. When they got there, the cops were arrogant, macho, and extremely dismissive. This was LA in the Eighties. 

   If you go up to somebody aggressively enough, they &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; be cowed. They &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; back down. Somewhere inside they &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; they're assholes. They fear being called on it. 

 I've had twenty years of threats, attacks, and being cussed out by people I called on shit.  I get it from friends and soon-to-be-former friends.  You &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; pay a price for it, especially if you're a woman.  It's worth it. You can sleep with yourself. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve found that as a woman who <i>does</i> do shit, you do get shat on and attacked. I still do it. I&#8217;ve gotten used to it. I was in a bookstore when I watched the teenager next to me stick a magazine in his jacket. Now, I worked in a bookstore myself and I hated shoplifters, so this was no big jump.  I used to tackle shoplifters every day, and I just used to get so irritated at them, because they just took what they wanted, while I had to work for what I wanted. Most of our shoplifters were arrogant little suburban shits whose parents were just <i> sure</i> we were wrong about their babies. And you know what? Attitude makes you six inches taller and twice as intimidating. As a woman, I found out that guys are subliminally afraid of women, and that&#8217;s a fear I encouraged. This guy was my size, so I knew I had nothing to fear. </p>
	<p>   &#8220;Are you gonna pay for that?&#8221;</p>
	<p>  &#8220;What&#8217;s it to you?&#8221;</p>
	<p>  &#8220;It&#8217;s stealing, asshole. Put it back.&#8221; </p>
	<p>  Dumbest motherfucker ever. There was a cop right outside the store.  He tried to stare me down, then he put it down and ran, right into the cop.  </p>
	<p>  Every time I&#8217;ve done it, I&#8217;ve gotten threatened and menaced. But I can&#8217;t live with myself otherwise. After combat, I&#8217;ve even more sure of taking on assholes. What are they going to do to me, shoot me? I can take anything they have away from them. </p>
	<p> I remember calling the cops about my neighbor downstairs, who was beating his wife. The LAPD declined to come,  saying that it was a &#8216;private&#8217; or a &#8216;domestic&#8217; matter. Only when the owner of the building called&#8212;because the now-ejected man had kicked down the door&#8212;did the cops take him seriously. When they got there, the cops were arrogant, macho, and extremely dismissive. This was LA in the Eighties. </p>
	<p>   If you go up to somebody aggressively enough, they <i>will</i> be cowed. They <i>will</i> back down. Somewhere inside they <i>know</i> they&#8217;re assholes. They fear being called on it. </p>
	<p> I&#8217;ve had twenty years of threats, attacks, and being cussed out by people I called on shit.  I get it from friends and soon-to-be-former friends.  You <i>will</i> pay a price for it, especially if you&#8217;re a woman.  It&#8217;s worth it. You can sleep with yourself.
</p>
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		<title>by: flashheart</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473215</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473215</guid>
					<description>also Sara you belong to the group of people still alive and in one piece because you didn't intercede in a potentially very dangerous situation. 

It's funny - when you are taught first aid the first thing you learn is the D in DRABC. D for Danger. But a lot of people seem to think that when an altercation involving a violent person is going on, the D has to be skipped, and calling the cops isn't an acceptable enough R.

I think a lot of people who make those judgements wouldn't themselves interfere in the actual situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>also Sara you belong to the group of people still alive and in one piece because you didn&#8217;t intercede in a potentially very dangerous situation. </p>
	<p>It&#8217;s funny - when you are taught first aid the first thing you learn is the D in DRABC. D for Danger. But a lot of people seem to think that when an altercation involving a violent person is going on, the D has to be skipped, and calling the cops isn&#8217;t an acceptable enough R.</p>
	<p>I think a lot of people who make those judgements wouldn&#8217;t themselves interfere in the actual situation.
</p>
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		<title>by: sara</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473199</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473199</guid>
					<description>Years ago, when I was still living in New York City, early in the Giuliani years, I was walking towards the Salvation Army at 11th Ave. and 46th St. at 9 or 10 a.m. It was still a quite bleak area. 

About a block ahead of me, I saw a man and woman arguing loudly; he was dragging her along by the arm, and she was fighting to get away. I didn't have a clear impression of race, SES, etc.

Two police officers were nearby, not looking in that direction, and I pointed out the altercation to them. &quot;It looks like he's beating her up. You should do something.&quot;

The police were both young -- though it's relevant to this thread, i can't recall whether both were men or one was a woman. &quot;Police&quot; becomes a gender to itself, maybe. &quot;She's probably a prostitute.&quot;

They didn't do anything, and sadly to say, I went a block out of my way to avoid the couple. I guess I belong to the group &quot;Something should be done&quot; but not to those who take action. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Years ago, when I was still living in New York City, early in the Giuliani years, I was walking towards the Salvation Army at 11th Ave. and 46th St. at 9 or 10 a.m. It was still a quite bleak area. </p>
	<p>About a block ahead of me, I saw a man and woman arguing loudly; he was dragging her along by the arm, and she was fighting to get away. I didn&#8217;t have a clear impression of race, SES, etc.</p>
	<p>Two police officers were nearby, not looking in that direction, and I pointed out the altercation to them. &#8220;It looks like he&#8217;s beating her up. You should do something.&#8221;</p>
	<p>The police were both young &#8212; though it&#8217;s relevant to this thread, i can&#8217;t recall whether both were men or one was a woman. &#8220;Police&#8221; becomes a gender to itself, maybe. &#8220;She&#8217;s probably a prostitute.&#8221;</p>
	<p>They didn&#8217;t do anything, and sadly to say, I went a block out of my way to avoid the couple. I guess I belong to the group &#8220;Something should be done&#8221; but not to those who take action.
</p>
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		<title>by: Lawrence Krubner</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473196</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473196</guid>
					<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;That there’s a better than 2 in 3 chance I’d just go about my business or, worse, help the attacker. It’s hard NOT to take that personally.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Statistics don't apply to individuals. Ony 14% of American women have college degrees. But that number goes up if your white. And that number goes up if your parents had college degrees. And that number goes up a lot if you are between the age  of 21 and 51. However, there are no 9 year old women who have college degress, so they bring the average down. 

Before a statistic might apply to you, you need to figure out if you're in the right demographic. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;<i>That there’s a better than 2 in 3 chance I’d just go about my business or, worse, help the attacker. It’s hard NOT to take that personally.</i>&#8221;</p>
	<p>Statistics don&#8217;t apply to individuals. Ony 14% of American women have college degrees. But that number goes up if your white. And that number goes up if your parents had college degrees. And that number goes up a lot if you are between the age  of 21 and 51. However, there are no 9 year old women who have college degress, so they bring the average down. </p>
	<p>Before a statistic might apply to you, you need to figure out if you&#8217;re in the right demographic.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jim</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473186</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/10/6424/#comment-473186</guid>
					<description>quote:
&quot;Not a single person in the lineup - all men - (I was the only woman in the whole store at the time) moved or said a word. They just ignored the whole thing. Lucky for the guy at the till, he was smart enough not to say anything about interrupting his transaction to deal with the shoplifter. &quot;

I would not have gotten involved either.  I worked behind a counter for a few years too, and the first rule we learned was don't try to foil a robbery.  A few cartons of cigarettes is not worth anyone's life.

You're lucky you didn't get shot.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>quote:<br />
&#8220;Not a single person in the lineup - all men - (I was the only woman in the whole store at the time) moved or said a word. They just ignored the whole thing. Lucky for the guy at the till, he was smart enough not to say anything about interrupting his transaction to deal with the shoplifter. &#8221;</p>
	<p>I would not have gotten involved either.  I worked behind a counter for a few years too, and the first rule we learned was don&#8217;t try to foil a robbery.  A few cartons of cigarettes is not worth anyone&#8217;s life.</p>
	<p>You&#8217;re lucky you didn&#8217;t get shot.
</p>
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