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	<title>Comments on: Reproductive rights link farm and one fat ass</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: ssc-athens</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472844</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472844</guid>
					<description>Arun, regarding your libertarian analogy.

Io paraphrase Lloyd Bensen, from his debate with Dan Quayle in 1988:

1) We are on very good terms with the concept of &quot;lifeboat ethics&quot;.

2) The concept of &quot;lifeboat ethics&quot; is very useful to us, at times.

3) A woman's uterus is not a lifeboat.

Unlike the &quot;laws of the sea&quot;, there's no absolute obligation to take &quot;on board&quot;, much less keep &quot;on board&quot;, an unwanted pregnancy.  Fertilized eggs, even implanted ones, are not autonomous human beings, much less sailors with interesting stories to tell.  Many fertilized eggs never implant, and many implanted fertilized eggs never make it beyond a few months without spontanous miscariages, unlike, again, hospitality on the open seas.

And regarding JLH's butt, we don't want to spend many more words defending it, but it's her butt, and it's beautiful.  It's not the most flattering part of her, I'd have to say her smile is the most flattering.  As far as why she chose to wear a certain bathing suit bottom, we're pro-choice, so we'll have to just defend her choice, ok?  If she loses the ability to act, sing, or perform in moving public service announcements, then we'll maybe criticize her, but off stage and off work she can dress as she pleases, tabloids be dammed.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Arun, regarding your libertarian analogy.</p>
	<p>Io paraphrase Lloyd Bensen, from his debate with Dan Quayle in 1988:</p>
	<p>1) We are on very good terms with the concept of &#8220;lifeboat ethics&#8221;.</p>
	<p>2) The concept of &#8220;lifeboat ethics&#8221; is very useful to us, at times.</p>
	<p>3) A woman&#8217;s uterus is not a lifeboat.</p>
	<p>Unlike the &#8220;laws of the sea&#8221;, there&#8217;s no absolute obligation to take &#8220;on board&#8221;, much less keep &#8220;on board&#8221;, an unwanted pregnancy.  Fertilized eggs, even implanted ones, are not autonomous human beings, much less sailors with interesting stories to tell.  Many fertilized eggs never implant, and many implanted fertilized eggs never make it beyond a few months without spontanous miscariages, unlike, again, hospitality on the open seas.</p>
	<p>And regarding JLH&#8217;s butt, we don&#8217;t want to spend many more words defending it, but it&#8217;s her butt, and it&#8217;s beautiful.  It&#8217;s not the most flattering part of her, I&#8217;d have to say her smile is the most flattering.  As far as why she chose to wear a certain bathing suit bottom, we&#8217;re pro-choice, so we&#8217;ll have to just defend her choice, ok?  If she loses the ability to act, sing, or perform in moving public service announcements, then we&#8217;ll maybe criticize her, but off stage and off work she can dress as she pleases, tabloids be dammed.  <img src='http://pandagon.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />
</p>
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		<title>by: Arun</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472718</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472718</guid>
					<description>I've always been a admirer of Jennifer Love Hewitt.  I would say though, not that her ass is fat, but rather that she's making a common clothing mistake.  The eye tends to judge size relative to what you're wearing. With a different bikini bottom, I believe she could look much better than she does in that photograph, without changing an ounce of herself.  

Of course, the question arises - why on earth should she do that? why on earth should she care?  - and there is no answer to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve always been a admirer of Jennifer Love Hewitt.  I would say though, not that her ass is fat, but rather that she&#8217;s making a common clothing mistake.  The eye tends to judge size relative to what you&#8217;re wearing. With a different bikini bottom, I believe she could look much better than she does in that photograph, without changing an ounce of herself.  </p>
	<p>Of course, the question arises - why on earth should she do that? why on earth should she care?  - and there is no answer to that.
</p>
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		<title>by: Arun</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472717</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472717</guid>
					<description>A libertarian grapples with abortion:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan168.html
Summary:
A foetus in a woman's womb is now equivalent to a shipwrecked man who climbed aboard your boat unbeknownst to you. The woman's obligation, like yours, is to deliver the wrecked to the nearest safe port in your path, and ends there. Abortion is akin to throwing the man overboard.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A libertarian grapples with abortion:<br />
<a href='http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan168.html' rel='nofollow'>http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan168.html</a><br />
Summary:<br />
A foetus in a woman&#8217;s womb is now equivalent to a shipwrecked man who climbed aboard your boat unbeknownst to you. The woman&#8217;s obligation, like yours, is to deliver the wrecked to the nearest safe port in your path, and ends there. Abortion is akin to throwing the man overboard.
</p>
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		<title>by: ssc-athens</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472110</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472110</guid>
					<description>Thank GOD for Jennifer Love Hewlett's fat butt, and the dielectic created betwen her butt cheeks and the theme of reproductive justice for all women!

If it wasn't for that, how many people really would be reading this post and comments about how little press there has been about the impact to poor women off campus who depend on those 400-some-odd &quot;safety net&quot; clinics for health care and clinic-dispensed contraception?  (Kudos to Amanda, seriously -- this may be one of the few posts even on the feminist blogs that discussed the impact to poor nonstudents.  The mainstream press actually though has had some decent wire stories about the impact to &quot;safety net&quot; clinics, maybe because of concern to how it will impact poor women who might really carry their pregnancies to term and give birth to welfare babies.)

Now, if we could just somehow work shaming laddie blogs for their shaming of Jennifer Love Hewlett for having a fat butt in a bathing suit … SOMEHOW work that into appeals for reducing the cost of relatively new, popular forms of hormonal birth control – AND NOTHING ELSE – and actually get the mainstream press to cover both in the same story as giving back to pharmaceutical companies the right to market (at deep discounts) their new, overly expensive products to college students, not to mention all of about 400 community health clinics, to add more column inches which say nothing about Title X, Medicaid waivers for family planning coverage, much less affordable abortion access for minors – yeah, we’d be a lot better off...

...not.

Actually, it would probably do almost as much for the reproductive rights movement as it would for JLH’s butt.  It would be better for more low-to-moderate-income women to see more column inches given to Title X and Medicaid waivers, and more plain-looking, average-sized Title X clinics built in the suburbs, and actually fewer Costco-sized superclinics and Starbucks-kiosk sized satellite clinics on campuses, and only on certain campuses.   But all we're reading about -- at best -- is restoring a discount program meant mostly to help market new contraceptives to college students, and -- if we're lucky, funding increases for clinics that BARELY keep pace with inflation but which don't significantly expand services.

Hey, if it takes a tie-in to JLH's butt to raise the awareness of the electorate to the broader, wider, meatier issues, let's do it!

Can we take this even further … can we build on this theme, and this year’s trend in movies that don’t quite mention and don’t quite advocate abortion rights (Knocked Up, Superbad, Juno, etc) but which still get mainstream news coverage that draws dollars from pro-choice moviegoers?  How about “I Know What You Did Last Reproductive Freedom Summer”?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thank GOD for Jennifer Love Hewlett&#8217;s fat butt, and the dielectic created betwen her butt cheeks and the theme of reproductive justice for all women!</p>
	<p>If it wasn&#8217;t for that, how many people really would be reading this post and comments about how little press there has been about the impact to poor women off campus who depend on those 400-some-odd &#8220;safety net&#8221; clinics for health care and clinic-dispensed contraception?  (Kudos to Amanda, seriously &#8212; this may be one of the few posts even on the feminist blogs that discussed the impact to poor nonstudents.  The mainstream press actually though has had some decent wire stories about the impact to &#8220;safety net&#8221; clinics, maybe because of concern to how it will impact poor women who might really carry their pregnancies to term and give birth to welfare babies.)</p>
	<p>Now, if we could just somehow work shaming laddie blogs for their shaming of Jennifer Love Hewlett for having a fat butt in a bathing suit … SOMEHOW work that into appeals for reducing the cost of relatively new, popular forms of hormonal birth control – AND NOTHING ELSE – and actually get the mainstream press to cover both in the same story as giving back to pharmaceutical companies the right to market (at deep discounts) their new, overly expensive products to college students, not to mention all of about 400 community health clinics, to add more column inches which say nothing about Title X, Medicaid waivers for family planning coverage, much less affordable abortion access for minors – yeah, we’d be a lot better off&#8230;</p>
	<p>&#8230;not.</p>
	<p>Actually, it would probably do almost as much for the reproductive rights movement as it would for JLH’s butt.  It would be better for more low-to-moderate-income women to see more column inches given to Title X and Medicaid waivers, and more plain-looking, average-sized Title X clinics built in the suburbs, and actually fewer Costco-sized superclinics and Starbucks-kiosk sized satellite clinics on campuses, and only on certain campuses.   But all we&#8217;re reading about &#8212; at best &#8212; is restoring a discount program meant mostly to help market new contraceptives to college students, and &#8212; if we&#8217;re lucky, funding increases for clinics that BARELY keep pace with inflation but which don&#8217;t significantly expand services.</p>
	<p>Hey, if it takes a tie-in to JLH&#8217;s butt to raise the awareness of the electorate to the broader, wider, meatier issues, let&#8217;s do it!</p>
	<p>Can we take this even further … can we build on this theme, and this year’s trend in movies that don’t quite mention and don’t quite advocate abortion rights (Knocked Up, Superbad, Juno, etc) but which still get mainstream news coverage that draws dollars from pro-choice moviegoers?  How about “I Know What You Did Last Reproductive Freedom Summer”?
</p>
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		<title>by: lauren</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472070</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472070</guid>
					<description>I think it was over at Feministe where it was said that these types of situations (the JLH one) are brought up to make regular women feel shitty about themselves and serve as a reminder &quot;Nobody likes a fat woman!&quot;  I think it's less about JLH and more about letting us all know that our bodies are disgusting and unacceptable.  It is truly disturbing.  A woman just can't win in our culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think it was over at Feministe where it was said that these types of situations (the JLH one) are brought up to make regular women feel shitty about themselves and serve as a reminder &#8220;Nobody likes a fat woman!&#8221;  I think it&#8217;s less about JLH and more about letting us all know that our bodies are disgusting and unacceptable.  It is truly disturbing.  A woman just can&#8217;t win in our culture.
</p>
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		<title>by: kcb</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472031</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472031</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;it bothers me that she feels the need to hide her true size while simultaneously decrying horrendous female beauty standards&lt;/i&gt;

I agree with Amanda that clothing sizes are arbitrary, but I also think you're onto something. When I was about 12 years old and obsessed with Marilyn Monroe (gah!) I read somewhere that her measurements were 36-24-36. (Why are measurements a big deal/public info anyway?)

At that time, my mom had recently measured me for a holiday outfit she was sewing and I knew that my measurements were the same as Monroe's purported numbers. Yet I looked like the 98-pound sack of pre-adolescent bones I was and she looked like a grown woman with hips and breasts.

That was a little lightbulb moment for me, that a lot of this stuff about how tiny and perfect celebrity women are is just not true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>it bothers me that she feels the need to hide her true size while simultaneously decrying horrendous female beauty standards</i></p>
	<p>I agree with Amanda that clothing sizes are arbitrary, but I also think you&#8217;re onto something. When I was about 12 years old and obsessed with Marilyn Monroe (gah!) I read somewhere that her measurements were 36-24-36. (Why are measurements a big deal/public info anyway?)</p>
	<p>At that time, my mom had recently measured me for a holiday outfit she was sewing and I knew that my measurements were the same as Monroe&#8217;s purported numbers. Yet I looked like the 98-pound sack of pre-adolescent bones I was and she looked like a grown woman with hips and breasts.</p>
	<p>That was a little lightbulb moment for me, that a lot of this stuff about how tiny and perfect celebrity women are is just not true.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472003</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-472003</guid>
					<description>history_mom, you are TOO right:  the comments on JLH are just RICH as you know the men making them would fall all over themselves were they to meet a woman who looks like her in real life and the women who make them:  I don't know, they're just insanely-self hating, I reckon.

but you know what?  in a way, I think the vicious backlash against JLH indicates people really do hate the &quot;fat-shaming&quot; standards or just physical-shaming standards in general.  I mean, not that they consciously know they hate them; I think people who write in nasty comments about JLH are probably just confused and unhappy.

but just -- until that moment, she was on the team of &quot;enforcers&quot; of those fat-shaming/physical-shamingness.  Not intentionally, but just by virtue of being a gorgeous celebrity.  The visceral intensity of the meanness toward her seems like it might be misplaced unleashed hatred toward those standards.  Seeing her fall is just so, so satisfying if you buy into those standards (as a self-hating woman or guy who feels only a sexxee girlfriend will do and yet you can't land one) and yet are constantly wounded by them in life as you live it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>history_mom, you are TOO right:  the comments on JLH are just RICH as you know the men making them would fall all over themselves were they to meet a woman who looks like her in real life and the women who make them:  I don&#8217;t know, they&#8217;re just insanely-self hating, I reckon.</p>
	<p>but you know what?  in a way, I think the vicious backlash against JLH indicates people really do hate the &#8220;fat-shaming&#8221; standards or just physical-shaming standards in general.  I mean, not that they consciously know they hate them; I think people who write in nasty comments about JLH are probably just confused and unhappy.</p>
	<p>but just &#8212; until that moment, she was on the team of &#8220;enforcers&#8221; of those fat-shaming/physical-shamingness.  Not intentionally, but just by virtue of being a gorgeous celebrity.  The visceral intensity of the meanness toward her seems like it might be misplaced unleashed hatred toward those standards.  Seeing her fall is just so, so satisfying if you buy into those standards (as a self-hating woman or guy who feels only a sexxee girlfriend will do and yet you can&#8217;t land one) and yet are constantly wounded by them in life as you live it.
</p>
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		<title>by: NBarnes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-471991</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-471991</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Shit, I need coffee!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

*clutches pearls*  Such language from the fairer sex!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Shit, I need coffee!</p></blockquote>
	<p>*clutches pearls*  Such language from the fairer sex!
</p>
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		<title>by: history_mom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-471986</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-471986</guid>
					<description>musculare=muscular

Shit, I need coffee!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>musculare=muscular</p>
	<p>Shit, I need coffee!
</p>
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		<title>by: history_mom</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-471985</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/12/05/reproductive-rights-link-farm-and-one-fat-ass/#comment-471985</guid>
					<description>I stumbled across the JLH thing on TMZ a couple days ago after reading JLH's response to it.  The comments were horrendous and an example of how some men feel women's bodies are disgusting no matter what they look like: too skinny, not skinny enough, cellulite, too musculare, not enough of an ass, too much ass, flat-chested, breasts too big, curvy, not curvy enough.  Gah! There is no winning because some asshole will always feel your body is a public object for him to criticize. It's these pissants' way of saying to JLH, &quot;I know I'm a loser who would never have a chance with you were we ever face-to-face, but let me knock you down a peg by proving that, no matter how successful or beautiful you think you are, you're nothing but an ugly cunt to me.&quot;

And don't even get me started on the women who think an adult woman's body (and 80% of them have cellulite-- it's a fact of nature) is disgusting.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I stumbled across the JLH thing on TMZ a couple days ago after reading JLH&#8217;s response to it.  The comments were horrendous and an example of how some men feel women&#8217;s bodies are disgusting no matter what they look like: too skinny, not skinny enough, cellulite, too musculare, not enough of an ass, too much ass, flat-chested, breasts too big, curvy, not curvy enough.  Gah! There is no winning because some asshole will always feel your body is a public object for him to criticize. It&#8217;s these pissants&#8217; way of saying to JLH, &#8220;I know I&#8217;m a loser who would never have a chance with you were we ever face-to-face, but let me knock you down a peg by proving that, no matter how successful or beautiful you think you are, you&#8217;re nothing but an ugly cunt to me.&#8221;</p>
	<p>And don&#8217;t even get me started on the women who think an adult woman&#8217;s body (and 80% of them have cellulite&#8211; it&#8217;s a fact of nature) is disgusting.
</p>
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