From Feministing’s weekly round-up, this article about the supposed return of pantyhose made me almost throw up in my mouth a little….almost until the writer tipped her hat to the fact that pantyhose are one of those items, like girdles or chastity belts, that can’t be said to “come back” into style so much as they are forced on women who would, left to our own devices, generally opt out.
Katie Couric has been one of the most stalwart and high-profile bare-leggers, bringing her tanned gams into living rooms every day with the TV news. But the sight of bare legs is so repulsive to some that a forum has emerged on Stockingshq.com, a website for stockings fans, dedicated to persuading the chipper news anchor to wear pantyhose. Fundraisers, bribes and beatings are a few of the strategies discussed. One man lamented that he’d been forced to switch to Fox, where the legs are rarely naked.
About 70% of the impassioned commenters on Stockingshq.com are male, according to site founder David Bradwell. Their push for hose is about making “ladies” look sexy.
“It’s about leaving something to the imagination,” he said. “A gift which is wrapped and can then be unwrapped is better.”
He also admits he’s never tried to wear them.
He should! Why on earth wouldn’t he want to wear such wonderful items that he’s so dedicated to getting the opposite sex to wear? I mean, he’ll miss out on the fun part of the increased chance of yeast infections from containing your ladyparts in all that synthetic fabric, but I’m sure he’ll get an idea of how fun it is when he gets to enjoy having a swamp grow around his balls and feel that oh-so-sexy pleasure of sliding around in sweaty synthetic goodness in your shoes.
Not only do I think he’s never tried to wear them, I don’t think he’s ever unwrapped a “gift” wrapped in pantyhose or he would know that the process of exposing a pantyhose clad body to the naked eye and then dismantling the garment rates somewhere on the sexy scale between “taking a crap” and “giving Chris Muir a handjob while he looks at one of his cartoons”. (Up to the reader which is higher on the sexy scale.)
The rest of the article is about the fashion industry’s routine attempts to get women to dress more “feminine”, i.e. in clothes that make you miserable or restrict movement, and as such the reader can fill in the pissing in the wind aspects. All you need to know about the hipness of this pathetic push is in this paragraph:
The mother-in-law might find solace in the fact that her views are supported by the president of the United States. One of his first actions upon taking office was to reinstate the White House dress code requiring, among other things, that women wear stockings in the West Wing. Exhibit A, Condoleezza Rice, the fashionable secretary of state.
By definition, there’s absolutely nothing hip about a trend that starts with a bunch of reactionary fuddy-duddies.
I worked a job that was pantyhose-required if you didn’t wear slacks. As a general rule, I prefer to wear skirts for business casual dress, but I learned to like slacks on that job. You got to keep your dignity in slacks, something I find close to impossible to do when you’re battling pantyhose creep.
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Hah, I love this! Hell, I think men should try skirts and hose every now and then…some men can look quite sexy in heels and fishnets!
Personally, I haven’t worn hose in years. I wear Chucks with business slacks and dare people to say anything about it! I also don’t work for a “conventional” place, though and I feel bad for people that are required to wear them (or guys that are required to wear ties or shave, for that matter…stuff like that has fuck all to do with how well you can actually do a job and is just “standards enforcement”).
How can any man who has ever complained about ties ever encourage anyone to wear pantyhouse?
I long for the day where ties, high heels, pantyhose, and all manner of girdles are dropped into vast recycling vats to create housing material for a more enlightened and future humanity.
Wow, when I first saw that picture I thought it was for some sort of weird underwear that turn your legs into jelly. The truth doesn’t sound much better. (having trouble posting, apologize if it shows up more than once)
Charlie wears nylons FAR more often than I do and loves ‘em! He looks great…
Seriously, our high school boys’ swim team (25 years ago) ALL practiced wearing pantyhose- it created resistance and helped promote stronger swimming. They also shaved their legs before every match to eliminate as much resistance as possible. It was funny to listen to them gripe about how much the hair itched when it grew back!
I was thinking about that myself: that picture looks like it’s dealing with Magic Underwear(TM) that makes women’s legs into something like octopus tentacles.
(Actually, that’d be sorta cool….especially if I got a few more legs at the same time.)
Two words: Hanes Thigh-Highs. They stay where you put ‘em, there’s no crotch to become saggy, you can bend over at the waist and not be cut in two, no yeast issues, and you can buy ‘em in bulk if you have to. God’s most perfect creation.
Once I found them, I never went back to regular panty hose except under duress (ie ran out, had to buy at the drugstore on the way to work). Of course, I now work in jeans and sneakers every day, but when I have to wear some kind of nylon legwear, that’s what I pick.
Hey, if wearing pantyhose is good enough for Joe Namath, then it’s good enough for him.
I’ve worn pantyhose.
Admittedly, I was way above the snowline on a mountain for two weeks. That’s about the only time a sane person would want to wear them.
People under 40 still wear pantyhose? I can’t remember the last time I saw someone close to my own age (30) wearing them. I don’t even think my Mom (who’s in her 50s) owns a pair any more.
I remember being somewhat mystified by my Mom’s pantyhose as a kid. Why would anyone anyone want to where something that looked sort of like skin, only uglier? Especially when they were apparently uncomfortable (no, I never tried them on, but I did know that my Mom never wore them a second longer than she had to).
Phoenician…
BINGO. The ONLY time I wear panty hose is when I go cross country skiing.
Not only is the past a different country, age is a different country. If you think pantyhose are uncomfortable, you should have experienced what came before them. We were all delighted to trade in our stockings, garters, garterbelts and girdles for the freedom and comfort of pantyhose. And I still say the only time they’re uncomfortable is when you’ve got the wrong size. Well, that’s the only time *I* find them uncomfortable.
And as a data point, my feet sweat in shoes when I wear them barefoot rather than with socks or hose.
MKK–yeah, I’m 55 — does that make me oldest?
Not only is the past a different country, age is a different country. If you think pantyhose are uncomfortable, you should have experienced what came before them. We were all delighted to trade in our stockings, garters, garterbelts and girdles for the freedom and comfort of pantyhose. And I still say the only time they’re uncomfortable is when you’ve got the wrong size. Well, that’s the only time *I* find them uncomfortable.
And as a data point, my feet sweat in shoes when I wear them barefoot rather than with socks or hose.
MKK–yeah, I’m 55 — does that make me oldest?
Some of us work for The Man and still don’t like pantsuits. Pantyhose creep is annoying, but it’s way better than Knee-High Creep.
And speaking of creep, there’s hardly a better word for a guy like Bradwell, who thinks that professional women’s dress should be geared around his sexual fetishes.
Actually, when I was living in the Midwest, not too many miles from the shore of Lake Erie, I knew a good many men, who (along with lots of women) wore pantyhose in the winter. The object of this was not to obtain sexy-looking legs, as the hose were worn under pants, by both sexes. Pantyhose were popular in wintertime because, as anyone who’s ever worn them knows, nylon stockings are excellent insulators, and they can cut a breeze down to nothing. (That, and they’re cheap.) This can be torturous in the summer; what it must be like in summer in Texas I don’t dare try to guess. But the choice in/around Akron in the winter is: 1) walk around with chapped, red, flaky legs, or 2) walk around with warm but itchy legs…so male or female, you pays your money and you takes your choice. Lots of people like the second option.
(honors to Phoenician and ahunt: it sounds like they know what I mean)
I hate pantyhose. I don’t shave, and I don’t wear pantyhose, and anyone who wants to stare at my legs and try to shame me or pressure me in those regards is in for a surprise that starts with Foot and ends with Up Their Ass.
My legs get so overheated when I wear those synthetic things that I could probably fry eggs on them. Maybe that’s a workplace benefit- I could eat lunch at my desk.
It’s a little wearing-away of women’s dignity in the workplace. Patriarchy at its most arbitrary. I’m against dress codes in general, actually- I think it can be a sign of respect when you present yourself nicely, but I’ve never believed in stigmatizing or socially pressuring/harassing people to present a certain way. Clean is all I ask for.
The problem is that women’s shoes, in general, require some kind of hose if you don’t want a lot of foot sweat. And most trouser socks are a synthetic abomination that immediately sag around your ankles.
I wear tall boots with comfy socks whenever possible instead of heels. I do wear pantyhose with short skirts because of the shoe issue, and also, fishbelly white legs. That’s why I only own two short skirts, and only pull them out when all my trousers are in the laundry.
I miss my jeans-wearing old job.
Some of us work for The Man and still don’t like pantsuits. Pantyhose creep is annoying, but it’s way better than Knee-High Creep.
My comment is either in moderation or vanished into the ether, but two words: Hanes Thigh-Highs. Look like pantyhose, stay up all day, entire hip and crotch area remains free and comfy.
I rarely have to wear anything other than sneakers and jeans, but if I have to cover my legs in nylon, I wear woman’s best friend, the thigh-high.
Wow. Call me naive, but employers are actually allowed to *require* pantyhose? That seems so obviously ridiculous, it shouldn’t require refutation. I mean, I get irritated having to do up the top button on dress shirts.
And Sheesh, the “standards enforcement” part of this reminds of the recent “Structural Racism” post here. Stuff like racism and sexism inheres in institutions and structures as well. I guess that’s not really news, but seemed worth bringing up.
I actually like wearing hose. I don’t wear pants, and I find stockings, tights and yes, pantyhose, completely comfortable. I’m young (23), and I know lots of other liberal, progressive women who agree.
My fraternity (Phi Alpha Delta) had a lot of days during recruitment where we were required, if female, to wear panty hose. Even if we were wearing slacks. I hadn’t worn them in years and reminded myself why VERY QUICKLY.
I listened to a lecture at my school about women-friendly business practices for hotel management, and was amazed by the sheer awesomeness of this hotel manager who battled hard to make it so that women working at the hotels (maids, desk personnel) didn’t have to wear panty hose, or if they did, to have them provided for free by the country. He explained that by doing this, it wound up being equivalent to providing a raise of about 50 cents to each and every one of those women, because the cost of replacing pantyhose is so high when one works in a job where you damage them a lot.
I’ve used Hanes thigh-highs for nearly two decades…gets dicey after 4 or so “events”, but then, “stocking events” only roll around a few times a year.
Are pantyhose really that awful? I wear them all the time; I live in a chilly climate, and prefer skirts & dresses to pants. Ergo, hose. Of all the annoying things foisted upon women, they’ve never made the list for me. (And, Jonah, I’m 40.)
As someone from a hot and humid climate, I think employers who require pantyhose here are sadistic, especially in boiling hot summers.
Subways. July and August. Boston. No air conditioning. 90 minute commute each way, minimum. Working for a conservative bank. Pantyhose. Every. Damned. Day.
Not only was there a ridiculous expense for the damn things…but the amount it cost to battle the inevitable summer long yeast infections could have paid for a vacation.
I work from home now. I havent owned panty hose in several years. Color me happy and non-itchy
Some of us work for The Man and still don’t like pantsuits. Pantyhose creep is annoying, but it’s way better than Knee-High Creep.
I wore men’s trouser socks. Much less creep, but easier to pull off with the more recent fashions in slacks that almost touch the floor.
My comment is either in moderation or vanished into the ether, but two words: Hanes Thigh-Highs. Look like pantyhose, stay up all day, entire hip and crotch area remains free and comfy.
The elastic pinching my thighs made me miserable. I tried garter belts and traditional stockings, but you could see the belts through most of my clothes, so I gave up.
In Texas, the strategy was wear them to get to work in the morning, when the dash between the car and the bank at 9AM was manageable. At 4PM, pull them off and walk around barefoot, since you have no walk-in traffic anyway. If you had a date or something like that after work, throw the crappy pantyhose away and change into jeans at work. We’re a casual city; wearing a skirt out on a date or to meet friends would cause people to be nervous.
Amanda, did you do the trouser sock thing with heels?
I mostly wore loafers with slacks. I see no point in wearing heels with slacks. If I’ve gone so far as to wear slacks, I’m not interested in femming it up too much with the heels. I think a bit mannish in slacks is dashing.
I didn’t have panty hose, but dance tights (actually theater tights since they were for opera) that I wore for years as long underwear.
Reading all of this, though, makes me realize yet again that despite the lack of real choices in fashion, I still love my y-chromosome.
Ah, loafers were frowned on where I worked…and I’m not comfortable in flats anyway unless theyre sneakers with a lot of arch support.
The elastic pinching my thighs made me miserable.
To each her own. The wider elastics can be more comfortable, but they don’t seem to be as reliable. And other brands don’t work nearly as well as Hanes, for some reason.
For anyone curious to try them, make sure you pull the elastic ALL the way up to your crotch. If you try to hover them lower, they’ll never stay up, but if you bring them all the way to the top, they’ll stay up all day.
(My shrink started giggling when I gave her this advice — I think she found it odd to have a client using the word “crotch” anatomically and not as a euphemism for his/her genitals.)
For anyone curious to try them, make sure you pull the elastic ALL the way up to your crotch.
YUP! That bit of flab at the junction has a purpose.
am i the only one who would respond to criticism from my employer for what i do and do not wear on my legs with a suspicious look, a gasp, and a “why are you looking at my legs during work hours?” or if the gender of my boss doesn’t allow that, then a simple “pantyhose gives me yeast infections”. and as the situation escalates, then repeat the phrase even louder.
fortunately, i guess, i never worked for a place that requires it. it’s still a worthwhile gamble, i think. firing someone is a huge hassle for a company and it would take a lot more than refusal to uphold a medically inappropriate/sexual harassing dress code.
i do think that garters and thigh highs are amazing sexy. except you know what’s inappropriate? looking sexy at work. i suppose that’s another retort i could use, i’m not in the habit of dressing like i want to get laid when i’m at work.
my (male) partner wears stockings (pantyhose=stockings?) occasionally. and i have to admit, it is hot.
i wouldn’t expect him to wear them all the time because they’re so fucking uncomfortable. the ones that just go up to your thighs though, they’re not so bad.
I remember reading one of those NYTimes “trend” pieces a few years ago about how hose were now the province of the lower classes, and the truly well-off (and those who wanted to appear so) went without. The idea was that going without hose required other time-intensive personal hygene habits: shaving every day, lotions to maintain skin condition, excercise for muscle tone, etc, which among other things demonstrated that you had the time and money to maintain this appearance.
Yet another example where, among the choices presented to women, you’re pretty much screwed no matter what you choose.
The only time I’ve ever worn anything remotely close to hose is when I’ve been in wintry parts of the country (something I try to avoid) and I’ve worn either spandex (under the clothes–don’t be afraid) or thermals. I can’t imagine wanting to wear another layer of anything unless it’s for warmth.
This subject has been in my mind a good bit lately because Emily has been writing a series on early Wonder Woman comics. This one is on the fashion aspects of the comics, and how her pants have evolved over the years.
I have long legs; thigh highs are only so long.
My employer made us (females) wear nylons. There was no extra money to buy replacements. I got rebellious after a while and decided there was no damn rule that said I couldn’t walk around with them laddered. Whenever someone told me I had a run in them, I’d say, “Yes.” or if really irritable, “Are you going to tell the CEO to buy me a new pair?” I was a clerk; they were not paying me enough to expect me to replace the damn nylons every time they got laddered. ESPECIALLY since our building wasn’t even open to the public.
I’ll take “taking a crap” for $200, Alex.
Back before Hipmama went pseudochristofacist, there was a poster who described her conversation with her son, thusly:
Small Kid: (holding out knee-high nylon) Mama, here’s your panty ho!
Panty hos being plural, of course!
Where I work I like to wear nylons in the winter, but not in the summer on the odd occasion I have to look business dress. Most of the women I work with are older, and don’t bother ever - including my boss. They wear pants or go bare legged. Same for the professors and department heads we work with. Seems like panty hos are mostly for the younger women, who are technically minded but don’t have the same aversion to being femme if they happen to be femme.
I like pantyhose… well, I like sheer stockings that go up about mid thigh, anyway. You’re right about the unpleasant sweatiness around the pelvic area. I have enough trouble with that during the summer because of my stalwart objection to wearing shorts. I look terrible in them. =(
Then again, I am completely oblivious to the mandates of the beauty industry, living without television and never reading magazines other than Time and whatever periodical on wealthy living happens to be found at the coffee place downstairs.
It’s one thing to like the way someone looks in something (like chicken costumes) but it’s quite another to force them to conform to your fetish in order to earn a living. That’s just… sick. Ew.
I’ve never minded hose on a comfort level, but then again I’ve never had to wear them everyday. What does bother me is having to buy a new pair every damn time I wear them ‘cause they get mangled as soon as I step out the door. The things are just too fragile.
At one point I bought some fishnets and I’ve refused to wear anything else since. They don’t run! and they breathe! There’s not a whole lot of extra warmth, but that’s ok with me. Recently I went to a cousin’s baptism wearing fishnets. Not being a church going sort I didn’t think anything of it ’till I got to the church. No one made any remarks about them, but I spent the whole time kinda nervous that someone would make a snide comment. At work I tended to wear below the knee skirts with cotton knee socks, on the few occasions I wore skirts.
I’d be pissed if anyone tried to force me to wear hose, and the modesty argument is beyond laughable, but I agree with a lot of the above commenters that pantyhose have their uses. They work as blister prevention (sweaty feet in structured shoes tend to chafe), camouflage for legs that are less groomed and/or unevenly colored, some protection from the elements, and nearly seamless undergarments when wearing very tailored clothes. And as miserable as donning support hose can be, I credit them with my lack of varicose veins back when I worked 55+ hour weeks standing on a concrete floor.
They’re not for everyone, and I don’t love wearing them, but they can be useful.
[if this is a double post, my apologies; as of now there’s no moderation message]
I’d be pissed if anyone tried to force me to wear hose, and the modesty argument is beyond laughable, but I agree with a lot of the above commenters that pantyhose have their uses. They work as blister prevention (sweaty feet in structured shoes tend to chafe), camouflage for legs that are less groomed and/or unevenly colored, some protection from the elements, and nearly seamless undergarments when wearing very tailored clothes. And as miserable as donning support hose can be, I credit them with my lack of varicose veins back when I worked 55+ hour weeks standing on a concrete floor.
They’re not for everyone, and I don’t love wearing them, but they can be useful.
10$ stockingshq.com is a front for a bunch of fetish sites.
Pantyhose just aren’t attractive. I don’t understand the fetish, because I prefer bare legs to ones covered in some sort of flimsy fabric. I like the idea of tights, but hose? No thanks. The weird other-fabric crotch area just looks odd. I really like skirts (hell, I sometimes wear a kilt myself,) since there’s a peekaboo factor at play, but I’d never make it a policy for others to wear them, especially at work. Work and play just don’t need to be mixed that much. And a woman who doesn’t want to wear a skirt probably has valid reasons not to. And even if she doesn’t, who am I to dictate what she wears?
I don’t like to shave my face everyday, am uncomfortable when I button the top button of dress shirts, and am glad that bolo ties are acceptable at my work because I’ll be damned if I’ll wear a regular one (though I’ve never worn any sort of tie at work.) Dress codes are just bizarre to me anyhow. I don’t think “Wow, such authority!” when I see professional attire, I think “Wow, how impractical.” Suitcoats, pantyhose, high-heeled shoes, makeup, and even high-maintenance hairstyles all are turnoffs to me. Sure, I work in the highly-visible glamorous profession of a state prison librarian and have all sorts of ridiculous department orders dictating what sort of facial hair or length of head hair I can maintain, but I’m so glad I don’t have to deal with some of the ridiculous crap some people (mostly women) have to deal with.
Trystero - December 3, 2007 at 10:51 pm
“going without hose required other time-intensive personal hygene habits: shaving every day, lotions to maintain skin condition, excercise for muscle tone, etc, which among other things demonstrated that you had the time and money to maintain this appearance.”
Very very true. And somehow I think there would be much more screaming about Katie Couric’s bare legs if she didn’t do all of that.
it’s fetishistic. it keeps women jumping through imposed modesty hoops. it’s medicalically unsound & is ignorant of how women;s bodies are.
and it keeps you in the cosmetic ghetto, as youre paid less than a man but required to spend more money on yet more useless & arbitrary up-keep.
i fucking hate these sexist dress codes & i fucking hate pantyhose.
medicalically, heh
I try to get away with knee highs whenever possible, my job requires me to wear hose even if I’m in slacks. I do like a nice thick pair of tights in the winter time so I can go on wearing my summer weight skirts for just a little longer, but I only have to do that a few days a month. I’m all for thigh highs when I can find them in plus sizes (thank goodness for Torrid!), but they’re pricey compared to a big bargain pack of imperfect hose.
Control top hose, in my opinion, should be banned as a human rights violation. Support hose seem to be ok, but whoever thought it was a good idea to squeeze a woman’s midsection should have their head examined.
If I weren’t required to wear hose, I’d probably clean out that part of my sock drawer for good. Maybe use the money I saved on them to buy some nice winter clothes.
I’m with Indy on this one - next thing you know, they’ll be running trend pieces about leather chaps.
It is a rather interesting illustration of a very old authoritarian sexual theme, isn’t it? The very simple three step process:
1 - “Thing X excites me sexually/”
2 - “Let us define Thing X as something that is Moral or Societally Preferable.”
3 - “Let’s compel women to do the Moral or Societally Preferable thing.”
Easy Peasy.
The people here who have posted on the fetishists have it nailed. These are just people wrapping up their masturbatory fantasies in a societally acceptable package.
I didn’t even have to do more than look at the first page to determine that stockingshq.com was a fetish site. And a sad one, too. It also sells for large and tall (up to 6′8″, meaning more for men that women, I assume.) The shop’s best-sellers page was all about garters and stiletto-heeled monstrosities. The prices were quite high, but then again I guess I’m just not into it so almost any price would seem to be too much.
Dress codes are really the last generally-accepted daily reminder of the patriarchal and class-based control of others. I’m all for practicality, so when I see a man in a suit and tie at his daily job or a working woman in full makeup, hair styled to just so, in heels and hose, I never get impressed. Hearing my future-not-wife gush about how she can wear jeans to work on Fridays makes me sad. My work has bluejeans-Fridays, but the employees give a charity donation of $1 to participate. We have to pay money for the privilege of breaking the all-important dress code. Stupid shit like that makes it all about the employer, who will probably be in the company newsletter anyday now holding an engraved chunk of wood commemorating the work of others and talking about our giving spirit when we just want to wear our perfectly decent weekend clothing on weekdays. Jackasses!
I hate tights (UK speak for pantyhose) because they make my crotch area too hot. On the other hand I really like stockings which don’t overheat my crotch - then again I do know that many people have issues with discomfort from suspenders etc. and I do only wear them with “evening dress” and not every day (I really object to dress codes that require them, luckily there isn’t a dress code at my work and in any case I prefer trousers for work wear).
Stockingshq is a *stocking* shop for people who want quality stockings - which are very rare (the stockings that is, not the people). I don’t think it’s a *fetish* shop, although I suppose people with a stocking fetish might shop there and other people might class “wearing stockings to feel sexy” as a ‘fetish’. “Tall and large” applies both to men and to tall and/or fat women - I think it’s great that you can get clothing items in larger sizes.
Cheap stockings exist (well, stockings priced at the same sort of level as tights in most shops are) but expensive examples (of tights too) also exist - a shop like stockingshq sells the expensive sort. Their most expensive items are in the “Designer Label” category of clothing items (never cheap) and/or made out of silk (never cheap - but a great improvement on synthetic crap).
I also prefer skirts, so I wear opaque cotton-blend tights in the winter. I have really sensitive skin so anything scratchy polyester is out. I find them comfortable for the most part but they do occasionally need hitching up.
What I love: UPS used to make their female employees wear pantyhose.
Their male employees, of course, run around in SHORTS all year-round.
You know, those male employees that ONLY deal with the public. Every day.
I could never figure out why women wore all that synthetic, sweaty crap anyway. Cotton is much more comfortable. And if you must wear a skirt, then a pair of long, cotton or wool leggings or socks makes more sense on cold days than pantyhose or strockings. And don’t get me started on high heels. They make no sense at all. They look uncomfortable as hell and they can’t be good for your legs or feet. I wore a pair for an evening once (it was a Rocky Horror Picture Show thing…not every guy has the legs for it). Never again. Frankly, I just don’t get why you women would wear that stuff. What’s going on in your heads?
Pantyhose is like anything in women’s fashion: it’s okay if I can choose to wear it. Some days it’s what works, some days it’s not. Anything foisted upon me by insecure, controlling wankers is bound to piss me off.
“Hell, I think men should try skirts and hose every now and then…some men can look quite sexy in heels and fishnets!”
So true. Y’all should see Grolby in a short skirt. Yum!
The reason why women wear “all that synthetic crap,” heels, pantyhose, is because it’s often a requirement for jobs. Feminists facing unemployment (or “would you like fries with that”) are frequently forced to capitulate to the patriarchy for survival purposes.
Rayon was actually considered an amazing breakthrough when first introduced because it meant that “professional wear” was no longer confined to women who already had a lot of money for cotton and wool suits. Synthetic fabrics allowed many women to purchase 3-4 outfits where previously they couldn’t even afford one, and thus were capable of meeting dress standards for higher paying office work.
So I guess my shorter response to DBK’s idiocy up there is “I blame the patriarchy.”
Also, wearing heels once for Rocky doesn’t make you understand women or women’s fashion. Nor does it make you understand that women aren’t just waking up one day and saying “man, I want to wear some undergarments that cause yeast infections, shoes which limit my mobility and ruin my bone structure, chemicals on my face that may be carginogenic, and a skirt that cuts my stride in half.”
Whether any of us *likes* pantyhose is neither here nor there. Why are many of us FORCED to wear them?
Many, many women who work on the Hill must wear pantyhose to work, year round. It’s not a matter of being “stupid” for wearing nasty, synthetic fabric. It’s a matter of keeping one’s job.
Why are pantyhose required? How are they more modest than bare legs? You can still see just as much of the leg! They still “look” bare if you’re wearing a flesh-toned pair.
I mean, HOW in the world is it acceptable for employers to require pantyhose? What is the point?
I’m wondering if the real reason pantyhose are required by certain bosses or companies is because of what I’ll call the “Paris Hilton” factor. I think there’s a real fear/hope that under skirts, women aren’t wearing anything else. I’m guessing half of the people who see nylons are assuming pantyhose and would freak if they realized they were Hanes thigh highs and the crotch WASN’T covered in scratchy, unbreathable plastic fabric.
I told a female friend of mine that women won’t truly be equal until professional women could wear comfortable shoes to the office. (Didn’t think about pantyhose, but it would apply there as well.)
My comment is either in moderation or vanished into the ether, but two words: Hanes Thigh-Highs. Look like pantyhose, stay up all day, entire hip and crotch area remains free and comfy.
They don’t work for me. Trouser socks are fine if I’m at the office, but not so much in court. My biggest issue with pantyhose is how flimsy and crappy they are. Last time one of my co-workers bitched about wearing a tie, I asked him how often he has to buy a new tie because he got a run in his.
SarahMC - I suspect it’s because pantyhose creates that illusion of ‘flawlessness’. You know, none of those annoying razor nicks or hair or anything, just artificially perfect-looking skin. Some of the same sorts of places that require pantyhose used to ban pants suits.
Pantyhose, tights, even thigh-highs– ugh. Most uncomfortable article of clothing ever. Don’t even get me started on finding one that fits my legs (which are sort of skinny) and my stomach/waist (which is not so skinny) without either cutting off circulation or being baggy around my knees (which looks dumb). I wear leggings under jeans and skirts in the winter– they’re usually made out of some comfortable fabric and the ones that are meant to be worn as pants are really warm. Plus, they’re for sale at most clothing stores.
And also (yay!) this finally explains the yeast infections I got in high school– Catholic school, dress code was kilts and the like, and if you didn’t want to freeze to death/tan/shave every day, you pretty much always ended up wearing pantyhose under your skirt and kneesocks combo. No one (doctor or mom) ever mentioned that as a possible cause.
Requiring pantyhose in the summer is sadistic. In the winter, it’s cold and they keep me warm. They’re still not the most comfortable thing, and it’s annoying to have to keep buying new ones, so I just wear slacks and socks and loafers most of the time. I am actually shocked and amazed that there are workplaces out there who don’t allow women to wear socks and loafers with slacks. That is horrible.
I’m having to wear a thick itchy beige elastic compression stocking every day for two years following a DVT.
…It’s not relevant to the discussion, no. I just wanted to whinge about it.
I mean, HOW in the world is it acceptable for employers to require pantyhose? What is the point?
Sometimes, in my cynical nasty moments, I sometimes suspect that the answer is Because They Can.
Bastards.
I like to buy trouser socks from JoyofSocks.com - they’re very expensive - $8 for a single pair - but they last and last and last. Plus, you can get them in whacky colors and patterns! So here I am in my uptight little business suit and my wild and crazy socks. It’s my own little rebellion.
Lordy, I need to get out more.
to add my 0.02, I work in Canada at a corporate bank (so ‘work formal’ is the dress requirement, no ‘business casual’ days unless they’re raising money for charities) and nylons (Canada-speak for pantyhose) dissapear from late May until mid-October (whenever the individual feels the temperature is right for doing away with them). I was brought up with the assumption that nylons are worn when it’s cold outside to keep your legs from being damaged from the wind/snow/freezing rain. Honestly, there’s nothing sillier with a pair of open-toed sandals than a pair of nylons with reinforced toes… which are the smartest buy since they don’t run as often.
I don’t know anywhere that has them as required dress-code (not to say that there aren’t places that do… just that I don’t know anyone working at said places), and the only time a guy has told me they look sexy it was a creepy older man.
Y’know, if pantyhose work for you, or thigh highs, or whatever that’s great.
Personally I can’t find a pair that will fit my curvy ass with any satisfaction. I would literally quit if they told me I had to wear pantyhose to work because it is just not feasible. (It’s all my fault for being both 6′ tall and overweight, those height weight charts on the back are ALWAYS blank for me.)
What a woman wears on her body is that woman’s business whether we are talking about burkhas, bikinis, pantyhose or thongs.
I worked at a bank back in the day. One reason I went back to school was to escape pantyhose. SarahMC has the real point. It should be a matter of discrimination to force women to wear anything that is medically troublesome.
Homo.Remember, it’s not a fetish if “normal” people are into it.
I think thigh-highs are sexy, especially with the garter belt, but what I don’t know is…what’s the point of them? I mean, the utility. Are they supposed to be giant socks that someone turned into lingerie? Do they let you go longer without shaving your legs? What’s the point?
When I was in the service, a lot of us wore shirtstays. These are elastic garters with clips on them to attach your shirt to your socks so it stays perfectly tucked in (and so your boots don’t eat your socks). You look sharp, but they rub all the hair off your legs in random patches, and if they let go, they inevitably snap you right in the yam sack. Eventually I just gave up.
Always nice to see that assholes see women as “gifts” — and in the workplace, no less. At least they’re consistent in their dehumanization. They must like that pantyhose make a part of a woman’s body more uniform, so that they can buttress their concept of women as fungible objects rather than as humans.
There’s also a racial component to pantyhose, with “nude” being white-normative and people of color being some deviance from the white-defined standard. Requiring women of color to wear a garment that other-izes them and says that their nude is not actually the “real” nude and instead they’re “suntan” (which is also white-normative) or whatever is yet another psychic boundary, another white-normative way to other-ize women of color.
“Personally I can’t find a pair that will fit my curvy ass with any satisfaction. ”
This is what I was thinking the whole time. What about the no-fat chicks rule hose companies seem to live by?
I have yet to find any store that sell thigh highs for anyone above size 4.
I used to work in a high-end department store… The operations manager (female) would look up women’s skirts on the escalator to make sure they had on stockings! This was Phoenix in the summertime. Awful, awful, awful.
This brings us back to the old internet standby of summerweight and winterweight office attire. Clothes are supposed to change with the seasons. Hm, with the tendency of offices to be too air-conditioned due to men wearing winterweight suits, wouldn’t hose sometimes be a blessing? I wouldn’t know; I tried them when I was much younger, and didn’t care much for them.Sometimes I’m just an old fuddy-duddy who thinks that there can be a point to differentiating work or worship from a trip to the beach; then again, I also expect more formal attire to fit comfortably, which eludes many people. It sounds like this could apply to stockings as much as it applies to collars, but I’d have to do more pantyhose research first. Is leg-shaving mandatory?
My mom always made me wear pantyhose because apparently it makes you look “finished.” Honestly, I always got the impression it was just to show that you’d made some kind of effort. I tended to think shaving and high heels were quite enough effort. (Besides, I apparently have the Toenails of Doom and would wear through even reinforced-toe hose within an hour.)
But yeah, if you ask me, pantyhose do nothing but show that you’re willing to endure discomfort and spending lots of money on something that’ll get ruined immediately.
When it’s cold, I’d rather wear colorful thigh-highs with sock garters to keep ‘em up. (Someone online recently suggested long woolly skirts with warm thigh-highs as a workaround for the fact that women’s jeans are apparently now cut for pre-pubescent girls — no hip room. I like it, although I did find some jeans that fit.)
(Sock source: http://www.sock-dreams.com )
Pantyhose also contribute to bladder infections. I think pantyhose should come with a health warning if they don’t already. Seems like OSHA should have something to say about companies requiring them.
Another big joke: pantyhose and long fingernails in combination. I’m with Samantha; I’d wear them with runs in them, a lot of runs, and in a color that was as close to “corpse” as I could find.
I’d gladly wear hose to work if I was also allowed to wear a doublet and carry a sword. Also a cape and one of those awesome Elizabethan ruffled collars. And a hat with a big feather on it.
I rarely wear skirts, but when I do pantyhose can be good for keeping legs warm, or in hot weather, keeping the thighs from chafing. And I don’t think they are terribly uncomfortable if they are the right size and don’t have to much extra “support”.
I’ve never worked anywhere that required skirts or pantyhose, or frowned on loafers (serioulsy? women aren’t allowed to wear comfortable shoes?). It’s always been “just no jeans, t-shirts with writing or sneakers, which is so nice. I think the bottom line is that employers should have no say in what employees wear except that it be appropriate for the job i.e. safe if working around heavy machinery, and/or professional if you work in a corp setting. And I don’t think professional means heels and pantyhose.
fyi…pantyhose + corpse results in a very odd Google search. I’m afraid I know too much now.
Togolosh: I’m with you. Bwahahahaha!
Pantyhose are cruel, cruel, cruel. I HATE them. (By now, y’all are thinking, “Go ahead, maatnofret, tell us how you REALLY feel.”)
I wore them when I first entered the workforce. Then I discovered pants, boots with long skirts. And tights. Tights, if they fit, don’t bother me because they do not chafe or run as easily as pantyhose. I’ve tried garters. They’re even more uncomfortable. Plus, you can see them through your clothes unless you wear vintage dresses all the time. I also tried thigh highs, but, being in the woman’s sizing twilight zone, they come in two categories: Cutting off Leg Circulation, or Falling Down. The latter is especially amusing because it forces me to walk down the street holding up my hose through my skirt. I’d like to try the over the knees with sock garters from Sock-Dreams, but I haven’t gotten around to ordering them.
And that guy that said taking off hose was like “unwrapping a gift.” wasn’t just creepy. He’s crazy. Trying to remove pantyhose in the heat of the moment can turn a sexual encounter from “fun” to “really fucking annoying” in very little time.
Sorry for the double post, but:
(Sung to the tune of “You Light Up My Life.”)
Yooouuuu/Ride up my thiiiighs….Strangle my crotch…
Just a little “Six Feet Under” goodness.
fyi…pantyhose + corpse results in a very odd Google search. I’m afraid I know too much now.
Well, they’d never actually call the color “corpse” you know. I think you should be searching “pantyhose +
Actually, I can’t think of a romantic sounding color comparable to corpse. Moonrock? Dirty salt? Pale volcanic ash?
As someone who’s been in both supervisory and lackey positions, I understand both sides of the argument (which can be made reasonably, despite the likely fetish/patriarchal reasons for some people). In jobs with no defined dress code, I have seen employees show up with little but pajamas and holey cutoffs with their asses hanging out, among other things. In some jobs, that’s fine, but in others it does tend to create an impression to your customers that people aren’t serious about what they do. Doesn’t matter if it’s true, it’s the perception.
The old “it only takes one to spoil it for everybody” is at play here. The vast majority of people, when presented with no dress code, will dress reasonably. But there’s always one idiot that makes managers decide there need to be rules. A good manager will make those rules very basic, but of course there are a lot of bad managers out there.
I have to say it got worse after the dot-com crash. I worked in a dot-com filled with flip-flop wearing hippies, and the suits from the venture capital companies thought it was cute until they all started going belly-up. The attitude of the companies towards “employee discipline” was lumped in with their attitude towards financial discipline, and now a lot of tech companies, at least down south, go to greater lengths to appear professional via a tightened dress code. Again, it’s not about realities, but perceptions.
Hmmph. Back in my day, one didn’t go without the codpiece…
If I were offered a job where nylons and heels were mandatory, I’d a) have to decline to be hired, and b) be filing a complaint with the (Canadian) Human Rights Commission so fast their addled little corporate heads would be spinning. I’m handicapped and can’t walk (safely) in heels, especially not in the winter, and I’m also allergic to bloody nylons. Pant suits all the way, baby… (Besides which, with my weird asymmetrical legs, I’d draw more stares from the clientele in a skirt than in pants anyway.)
even given a good reason to have a dress code at work, there’s absolutely no reason for that code to include panty hose, not any.
Caroline, that socks site is awesome! Even with customs fees I’m going to order me some… you can’t find really fun socks at a department store!
Last summer, my mom received a memo from the Board of Ed specifying what employees couldn’t wear in the summer. It included a ban on shorts or capris type things and said that women should judge the quality of their legs to decide if they can abstain from wearing pantyhose. The teacher’s union was flooded with calls that day.
And count me in on the hate wagon. Stupid job interviews. And one of the jobs I applied for would mean being in a courthouse, so I would have to wear them every freaking day.
“even given a good reason to have a dress code at work, there’s absolutely no reason for that code to include panty hose, not any. ”
Precicely. It’s one thing to put a loose dress code in place such as “no denim, gym clothes, flip flops” if these items are being worn by some employees. But demanding pantyhose is going to far to the extreme.
Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that you wanted to give me some emerald earrings. I’m pretty sure I’d like them just as much unwrapped as wrapped. Yup, I would. I’m certain of it.
And it’s not just because I’m an eco-grl and don’t want you to waste paper. It’s because I like emerald earrings basically any way they come
On the plus side, pantyhose tear easily
Their push for hose is about making “ladies” look sexy.
Those idiots may think pantyhose make women ‘look’ sexy, but when it comes to The Deed, pantyhose are a real turnoff, not to mention inconvenient.
Thigh-highs, stockings and garter-belt (even more inconvenient), those are pretty damned sexy, but so is being comfortable and independent.
Oh, and yes: I’ve worn pantyhose before. Had to, it was Shakespeare.
.
…It’s not relevant to the discussion, no. I just wanted to whinge about it.
An implicit condition of at least 80% of any comment thread.
Actually, I can’t think of a romantic sounding color comparable to corpse. Moonrock? Dirty salt? Pale volcanic ash?
“Goth”
Apparently “pantyhose” with just about any descriptor run through a search engine of your choosing will transport you into bizarro world of porn, salacious sexual fetishes, and there’s something about stuffing a corpse into nylon stockings and strangulation. I wonder if all these “proper” types espousing the use of pantyhose know about the fornication, masturbation, and enervated morals they’re encouraging.
women should judge the quality of their legs to decide if they can abstain from wearing pantyhose.
Ok, now I want practical joke pantyhose. I have ideas.
There’s also a racial component to pantyhose, with “nude” being white-normative and people of color being some deviance from the white-defined standard.
And it’s only “white” within a very narrow range. God forbid you should have (like me) ancestry from places like Ireland and end up with legs that your friends refer to as “sharkbait” if you’re at the beach. Wearing “nude” hose makes me look like I sprayed my legs with wood stain.
1. Whoever invented “control top” nylons should be shot. Sausage casing doesn’t even begin to describe what you feel like when wearing them
2. Nothing that makes your waist look like a snowman’s can be considered sexy.
3. Nylons have only one use at this point: they fit great under a pair of ski pants and thermals.
This post actually surprised me, because I didn’t know pantyhose ever went out of style. (I’m just that out-of-touch.) But in all seriousness, while I’m not a fan of pantyhose, I do wear it fairly often because a.) I live in Massachusetts, where it’s pretty uncomfortable to wear a nice skirt or dress in the winter bare-legged, and b.) they keep me from getting blisters when I wear heels.
I avoid pantyhose whenever possible - hated to wear them to church on sticky southern summer mornings (but it was immodest to have bare legs and wearing pants to church would send you to hell or something), hated to wear them for performances.
Knee highs cut in behind the knees and show if your skirt is anywhere north of the ankle bone. Thigh highs - my mother wore those, but they always seemed to land right in the middle of the thigh and either weren’t tight enough to stay there or were tight enough to leave a deep red groove for hours. Panty hose were too tight or too long or both, sagging at the knees, drooping at the crotch, squishing in the middle, develop great gaping holes if you look at them funny or touch them with a fingernail or walk next to anything that might ever once have had a sharp protrusion on it. Hate hate hate hate hate.
I admit, it got marginally better when I learned that I could actually buy them to fit me, but when I was wearing them to work I was getting maybe two wearings off a pair before it became unusable. And they offer no substantial warmth whatsoever (though I suppose they might mitigate windburn a little bit; I’m not anxious to experiment since my skin is dry enough already this time of year.)
As day-to-day wear, nylons royally and truly suck like a name-brand vacuum cleaner.
I did wear a pair the other day, though, when I was shoveling snow, so my cold wet jeans wouldn’t stick to my legs.
But that doesn’t mean the best part of the experience wasn’t taking the damn things off.
I’ve worn pantyhose before as a teenage boy.
I once got an office job wear pantyhose was required by all women - even when wearing slacks.
Needless to say, the first day was my last.
As for the “unwrapping a package” thing about panty hose? Why is that a concern in the workplace? do we honestly have to be sexy everywhere, even in the workplace? I mean, taken in combination with the article about how evil wiminz are using their sexy womanly pant-suited wiles to entrap men in the workplace into sexual harassment suits, it really seems to be that there’s no winning.
Which is, of course, why I blame the patriarchy.
Let me
That’s exactly it. That’s much of the underlying reason for all of it, the make-up, the shoes, the hair-styles. In a sense, for many of us, it’s not even necessary that we do it well: it’s that we do it at all. It says that we are willing to spend time, money, and sacrifice of personal comfort in order to stay right with the patriarchy. It’s wrong, but they pretend it’s true.secondthird Trystero’s comment (#34):However, sistren and brethren, pantyhose are excellent if you participate in ride-and-tie.
I remember working at Longs Drug Store many many years ago (it’s a chain in the west). Women were required to wear skirts or dresses and pantyhose. Good thing we got a discount on pantyhose, because you couldn’t get through a day without trashing them. I mean, we lady-girls, although restricted from being employed in the career-track manager program, and consigned to the cash registers, nevertheless had to pinch-hit in the warehouse and the shopping cart round-up.
I have a friend who’s now in her 60s. As a young
flight attendantstewardess, part of the daily inspection involved having their female supervisor randomly pinch through their skirts to snap their garters.Old fashioned stockings sucked, too. Most of us wore knee socks to school. Wearing non-stretchy hose with non-stretchy garter belts was a recipe for unpleasantness; for me, it meant accordian-pleats of pinky-beige nylon at my ankles.
But pantyhose, oh God, why has no one mentioned the frustration of pulling them up, only to find that you’ve got twisted-legs. The ill-defined “foot” of the hose has inexplicably got turned somewhere around your knee, and which way do you turn it to untwist it, or will you be twisting it worse? And also, one day I was putting on my pantyhose while trying to talk on the telephone, and I had ‘em almost up, but my knee tickled, and I looked down and saw I had trapped a spider, who was struggling between my leg and its hideous prison of evil, non-silk webbing. It was shrieking “Who spun this thing? Let me out, OMG, I will never trap another bug in my life, I swear. Halp!”
Finally: I just remembered my bare-legged faux pas of 1970. I was a bridesmaid, one of four, and dear god, no one told me I was expected to wear sheer white pantyhose with the white sandals. My toes looked cute. The other girls’ toes looked weirdly webbed. But I swear the bride’s mom wanted to toss me out on my slutty, trailer-trash ass.
I’m so glad many jobs allow open shoes nowadays.For some reason wearing hose would make my feet feel like theyre burning up.If I wore them you would see me walking around the office without my shoes on.