Comments on: Review: A Tragic Legacy http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/ Just another WordPress weblog Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:23:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: Malcalypse http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-472187 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:07:14 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-472187 "being good means behaving good, not just labeling yourself as such and thinking that justifies everything you do. " Isn't this the crux of Protestantism? Salvation through faith vs. good works. It's enough that you believe, and no amount of good works on earth will earn you passage into heaven. Since part of that belief is the acknowledgment that you're a sinner, might as well go ahead and sin on! “being good means behaving good, not just labeling yourself as such and thinking that justifies everything you do. ”

Isn’t this the crux of Protestantism? Salvation through faith vs. good works. It’s enough that you believe, and no amount of good works on earth will earn you passage into heaven. Since part of that belief is the acknowledgment that you’re a sinner, might as well go ahead and sin on!

]]> by: has_te http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-472101 Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:24:25 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-472101 Sweet... Amanda featured on glenn greenwald's http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/06/various_items/ Sweet…
Amanda featured on glenn greenwald’s
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/06/various_items/

]]> by: Matt http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-471990 Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:38:30 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-471990 I made the mistake of reading Glenn's book and watching the BBC documentary called "The Power of Nightmares" at the same time. My head almost exploded. Watch Neo-conservatives, admit, on camera, why they want war so badly. It's like a kick in the stomach, if you can stomach it. I made the mistake of reading Glenn’s book and watching the BBC documentary called “The Power of Nightmares” at the same time.

My head almost exploded. Watch Neo-conservatives, admit, on camera, why they want war so badly. It’s like a kick in the stomach, if you can stomach it.

]]> by: Hume's Ghost http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467386 Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:58:12 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467386 If anyone's interested, I posted a review of A Tragic LEgacy, myself, a few days ago. Its fairly comprehensive. http://dailydoubt.blogspot.com/2007/11/manichean-style-in-american-politics.html If anyone’s interested, I posted a review of A Tragic LEgacy, myself, a few days ago.

Its fairly comprehensive.

http://dailydoubt.blogspot.com/2007/11/manichean-style-in-american-politics.html

]]> by: No One of Consequence http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467351 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:29:34 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467351 Ugh. "Conclude." "Own say-so." So very tired. Ugh. “Conclude.” “Own say-so.”

So very tired.

]]> by: No One of Consequence http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467248 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:05:34 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467248 This came up before when Greenwald's book first came out, but I think the thesis leaves something to be desired -- it's confusing a coincidence with a correlation. Bush isn't a bad president because he's manichean -- he's a bad president because he's an asshole. That is, he is selfish, self-serving, and megalomoniaical. None of those characteristics are a consequence of a Manichaen worldview -- it should be patently obvious that the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism" title="" rel="nofollow"> Manichaen </a> worldview is a means by which Bush can support his beliefs. I mean, I disagree with Mani's belief systems, but, by Greenwald's formulation, I'd be forced to concluded that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mani_%28prophet%29" title="" rel="nofollow"> Mani </a> is also a jackass, which simply isn't true. Amanda, and Glenn, are wrong on this one, though Amanda's reservations are spot-on. Bush lies to himself as much as to anyone else. How many bad people honestly believe they are bad? Think of it this way. If Bush were a good person who was steered wrong by Manichaeism, then he would have a choice: abandon Manichaeism since it led to wrongdoing, or continue in the dualist belief system and, by making such a conscious choice, <i>be a bad person</i>. Mere self-delusion is no escape from ethical norms. Unless you want to argue that Bush is schitzophrenic, you have to conclude he's fucking scum, and no belief system in the world can save or damn him without his on say-so. This came up before when Greenwald’s book first came out, but I think the thesis leaves something to be desired — it’s confusing a coincidence with a correlation. Bush isn’t a bad president because he’s manichean — he’s a bad president because he’s an asshole. That is, he is selfish, self-serving, and megalomoniaical. None of those characteristics are a consequence of a Manichaen worldview — it should be patently obvious that the Manichaen worldview is a means by which Bush can support his beliefs. I mean, I disagree with Mani’s belief systems, but, by Greenwald’s formulation, I’d be forced to concluded that Mani is also a jackass, which simply isn’t true.

Amanda, and Glenn, are wrong on this one, though Amanda’s reservations are spot-on. Bush lies to himself as much as to anyone else. How many bad people honestly believe they are bad?

Think of it this way. If Bush were a good person who was steered wrong by Manichaeism, then he would have a choice: abandon Manichaeism since it led to wrongdoing, or continue in the dualist belief system and, by making such a conscious choice, be a bad person. Mere self-delusion is no escape from ethical norms. Unless you want to argue that Bush is schitzophrenic, you have to conclude he’s fucking scum, and no belief system in the world can save or damn him without his on say-so.

]]> by: Longhairedweirdo http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467227 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:20:20 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467227 <strike>Moron</strike>Eric: <blockquote> Left Wingers care more about terrorists than the people they kill. That’s one definition of evil. </blockquote> Ah, no. See, the propaganda is that we liberal folks care more about terrorists than the people they *might* kill *if* we don't torture them. Those aren't real people, Eric. Those are made up creations of people who are too scared to refuse to torture, or want to protect their good buddy Bush from paying the price for his crimes. There's no sin in not caring about people who are invented by torture supporters. MoronEric:

Left Wingers care more about terrorists than the people they kill. That’s one definition of evil.

Ah, no. See, the propaganda is that we liberal folks care more about terrorists than the people they *might* kill *if* we don’t torture them.

Those aren’t real people, Eric. Those are made up creations of people who are too scared to refuse to torture, or want to protect their good buddy Bush from paying the price for his crimes. There’s no sin in not caring about people who are invented by torture supporters.

]]> by: Longhairedweirdo http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467224 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:10:50 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467224 Re: Bush's beliefs, I think it's important to keep skepticism about it. He's willing to lie about anything; why wouldn't he lie about religion? Plus, thinking about that can be valuable for society. Think about how easy it is to be a "good Christian" these days! You have to talk about Jesus and praying, and you have to jump on the issues that least affect most folks who hold political power: gay rights (most gay folks can't get elected), abortion (you and yours will have the resources to obtain a safe and legal abortion if needed), and other issues involving sex. I saw a hilarious spoof about one of the new Supreme Court nominees (back when there was an opening (or maybe it was for the second opening) where prominent Christian groups demanded to know what the nominee's position on poverty was. Poverty was one of the biggest themes in the gospels, after all. It actually had me going for a moment... I mean, wouldn't it be really cool if the concerns of the big Christian groups were based upon the things Jesus talked about, like helping the poor? Anyway... I think the question is more important than the answer. People need to be cynical when it's so cheap to swing a big bloc of votes by mouthing a few pious words and attacking a few relatively small groups of people. Re: Bush’s beliefs, I think it’s important to keep skepticism about it. He’s willing to lie about anything; why wouldn’t he lie about religion?

Plus, thinking about that can be valuable for society. Think about how easy it is to be a “good Christian” these days! You have to talk about Jesus and praying, and you have to jump on the issues that least affect most folks who hold political power: gay rights (most gay folks can’t get elected), abortion (you and yours will have the resources to obtain a safe and legal abortion if needed), and other issues involving sex.

I saw a hilarious spoof about one of the new Supreme Court nominees (back when there was an opening (or maybe it was for the second opening) where prominent Christian groups demanded to know what the nominee’s position on poverty was. Poverty was one of the biggest themes in the gospels, after all. It actually had me going for a moment… I mean, wouldn’t it be really cool if the concerns of the big Christian groups were based upon the things Jesus talked about, like helping the poor?

Anyway… I think the question is more important than the answer. People need to be cynical when it’s so cheap to swing a big bloc of votes by mouthing a few pious words and attacking a few relatively small groups of people.

]]> by: togolosh http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467222 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:00:40 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467222 Another element of Bush's worldview comes from the right wing evangelical view of leadership - leaders are to be obeyed because they are leaders. That means being a leader means your orders are to be followed. Authority derives from the position, not good leadership. The hierarchy is the important thing, not its nominal function (which is part of the whole aristocracy thing I 'spose). Another element of Bush’s worldview comes from the right wing evangelical view of leadership - leaders are to be obeyed because they are leaders. That means being a leader means your orders are to be followed. Authority derives from the position, not good leadership. The hierarchy is the important thing, not its nominal function (which is part of the whole aristocracy thing I ’spose).

]]> by: MikeEss http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467221 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:57:53 +0000 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/16/6336/#comment-467221 <i>"Wow. I never would have guessed that Ann C**lter and her campaign of hate against 9/11 survivors were part of a left-wing conspiracy. Go figure."</i> The Left is VERY, VERY tricksey... “Wow. I never would have guessed that Ann C**lter and her campaign of hate against 9/11 survivors were part of a left-wing conspiracy. Go figure.”

The Left is VERY, VERY tricksey…

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