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	<title>Comments on: Let me make that decision</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: JupiterPluvius</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466069</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466069</guid>
					<description>I don't think anyone would argue that Gundy had plenty of reasons to object to Carlson's column.  Carlson's column wasn't a very good column (although I am spoiled by the amazing &lt;i&gt;Boston Globe&lt;/i&gt; sportswriters, it's a pretty tendentious and shoddy column by lesser standards as well).

The sexism isn't in his objecting to Carlson's sportswriting--it's in his using sexist tropes and languages to attack her.

If he'd said &quot;This column is junk, and here's why&quot; that wouldn't have been sexist at all.  In fact, it might have been a useful and interesting discussion.  Instead, he went for the &quot;childish&quot; option.  FAIL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone would argue that Gundy had plenty of reasons to object to Carlson&#8217;s column.  Carlson&#8217;s column wasn&#8217;t a very good column (although I am spoiled by the amazing <i>Boston Globe</i> sportswriters, it&#8217;s a pretty tendentious and shoddy column by lesser standards as well).</p>
	<p>The sexism isn&#8217;t in his objecting to Carlson&#8217;s sportswriting&#8211;it&#8217;s in his using sexist tropes and languages to attack her.</p>
	<p>If he&#8217;d said &#8220;This column is junk, and here&#8217;s why&#8221; that wouldn&#8217;t have been sexist at all.  In fact, it might have been a useful and interesting discussion.  Instead, he went for the &#8220;childish&#8221; option.  FAIL.
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		<title>by: Godmonkey</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466022</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466022</guid>
					<description>The only difference is, if you're a guy and you call a 20-year-old jock a mama's boy, you get your ass kicked soundly. If you're a woman, some not-ready-for-prime-time bozo rants unconvincingly in front of a camera.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The only difference is, if you&#8217;re a guy and you call a 20-year-old jock a mama&#8217;s boy, you get your ass kicked soundly. If you&#8217;re a woman, some not-ready-for-prime-time bozo rants unconvincingly in front of a camera.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mark Foxwell</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466014</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466014</guid>
					<description>So, Camper, it's completely plausible to you that a male sportswriter would be attacked in just this way if he wrote stuff exactly like Carlson's article?

You aren't saying anything I didn't already address here, upthread,

http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465660

And others made the point much more succinctly than I did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So, Camper, it&#8217;s completely plausible to you that a male sportswriter would be attacked in just this way if he wrote stuff exactly like Carlson&#8217;s article?</p>
	<p>You aren&#8217;t saying anything I didn&#8217;t already address here, upthread,</p>
	<p><a href='http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465660' rel='nofollow'>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465660</a></p>
	<p>And others made the point much more succinctly than I did.
</p>
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		<title>by: I Camp Better Than You</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466011</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-466011</guid>
					<description>&quot;They’re picking on Kirilenko because his wife manages the finances; and also because she lets him have sex with a fan once a year.&quot;

It's true that his wife offers the deal but according to him, he never takes her up on it.  

&quot;The contents of the article are irrelevant to the question of whether Gundy’s remarks were misogynistic. I’m male, and it was blatantly obvious to me. I felt like I was watching Promise Keepers, after the wives decided not to obey them.&quot;

I think he was getting at the fact that she doesn't have kids and therefore she doesn't know that MAKING THEM A MEAL isn't something to be looked down upon.  That was a main point in the article that she twisted around.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;They’re picking on Kirilenko because his wife manages the finances; and also because she lets him have sex with a fan once a year.&#8221;</p>
	<p>It&#8217;s true that his wife offers the deal but according to him, he never takes her up on it.  </p>
	<p>&#8220;The contents of the article are irrelevant to the question of whether Gundy’s remarks were misogynistic. I’m male, and it was blatantly obvious to me. I felt like I was watching Promise Keepers, after the wives decided not to obey them.&#8221;</p>
	<p>I think he was getting at the fact that she doesn&#8217;t have kids and therefore she doesn&#8217;t know that MAKING THEM A MEAL isn&#8217;t something to be looked down upon.  That was a main point in the article that she twisted around.
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		<title>by: The Sea Hawk</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465843</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465843</guid>
					<description>Yeah, Gundy should have backed up his remarks with some evidence to the contrary at least.  Oh well, that's what happens when crappy team talent meets a calling out by the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, Gundy should have backed up his remarks with some evidence to the contrary at least.  Oh well, that&#8217;s what happens when crappy team talent meets a calling out by the media.
</p>
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		<title>by: Godmonkey</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465827</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465827</guid>
					<description>The reporter's a third-rate bitter hack in a fourth-rate market and the coach guy is a laughable douchebag who, it can be argued, thinks it beneath him to take guff from a female sportswriter.

Waiting for this to become a signal moment in American cultural history ... waiting ... waiting ...

Next. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The reporter&#8217;s a third-rate bitter hack in a fourth-rate market and the coach guy is a laughable douchebag who, it can be argued, thinks it beneath him to take guff from a female sportswriter.</p>
	<p>Waiting for this to become a signal moment in American cultural history &#8230; waiting &#8230; waiting &#8230;</p>
	<p>Next.
</p>
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		<title>by: libhomo</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465818</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465818</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What Dan said is spot on. I don’t think Amanda actually read the article that the writer put out. Calling his reply “mysogynistic” is a hell of a reach. “Knee jerk reaction” would be more accurate and it’s a late one at that. This story already has a mold on it…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The contents of the article are irrelevant to the question of whether Gundy's remarks were misogynistic.  I'm male, and it was blatantly obvious to me.  I felt like I was watching Promise Keepers, after the wives decided not to obey them.

Gundy did have some legitimate gripes about the way amateur athletes are treated by the press, but the way he expressed those gripes not only were sexist, they trivialized the views of people who are responsible enough not to have children in an overpopulated world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>What Dan said is spot on. I don’t think Amanda actually read the article that the writer put out. Calling his reply “mysogynistic” is a hell of a reach. “Knee jerk reaction” would be more accurate and it’s a late one at that. This story already has a mold on it…</p></blockquote>
	<p>The contents of the article are irrelevant to the question of whether Gundy&#8217;s remarks were misogynistic.  I&#8217;m male, and it was blatantly obvious to me.  I felt like I was watching Promise Keepers, after the wives decided not to obey them.</p>
	<p>Gundy did have some legitimate gripes about the way amateur athletes are treated by the press, but the way he expressed those gripes not only were sexist, they trivialized the views of people who are responsible enough not to have children in an overpopulated world.
</p>
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		<title>by: Richard</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465816</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465816</guid>
					<description>The coach is clearly taking a gender-based jab at the reporter, but if you read the article it's clear that the reporter does the same thing in regard to the football player. She all but accuses the footballer of being a mamma's boy for eating food that his mother prepared -- in public, no less. Oh the humanity!

Now contrast this with the story circulating today about Kayne West, who's mother just died. West was known for having a very close relationship with his mother. No one would dream of suggesting he's a mamma's boy or less of a man because he loves his mother, yet this is exactly what the reporter in the football story has done.

She took the low road and fell back on a common gender slur often levied at men who fail to fit the stereotype of what a 'man' is supposed to be. Frankly, if my mother was alive today, I'd be proud to eat anything she prepared, in public. She was a hell of a cook and a wonderful woman. That the female reporter would seek to promote a negative gender myth, illuminates her bias and explains, if not justifies, the coache's scorn for what she did. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The coach is clearly taking a gender-based jab at the reporter, but if you read the article it&#8217;s clear that the reporter does the same thing in regard to the football player. She all but accuses the footballer of being a mamma&#8217;s boy for eating food that his mother prepared &#8212; in public, no less. Oh the humanity!</p>
	<p>Now contrast this with the story circulating today about Kayne West, who&#8217;s mother just died. West was known for having a very close relationship with his mother. No one would dream of suggesting he&#8217;s a mamma&#8217;s boy or less of a man because he loves his mother, yet this is exactly what the reporter in the football story has done.</p>
	<p>She took the low road and fell back on a common gender slur often levied at men who fail to fit the stereotype of what a &#8216;man&#8217; is supposed to be. Frankly, if my mother was alive today, I&#8217;d be proud to eat anything she prepared, in public. She was a hell of a cook and a wonderful woman. That the female reporter would seek to promote a negative gender myth, illuminates her bias and explains, if not justifies, the coache&#8217;s scorn for what she did.
</p>
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		<title>by: Sheesh</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465815</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465815</guid>
					<description>It's so funny watching all these MEN try (and fail) to tell us WOMEN why brining kids or a lack thereof into the response wasn't sexist.  Of course it was sexist, give me a fucking break already!  You NEVER, EVER hear a man's parental status brought up in diatribes like this (although you'll hear a hell of a lot of other things).  It couldn't BE anymore obviously &quot;Get that bitch barefoot and back in the kitchen&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s so funny watching all these MEN try (and fail) to tell us WOMEN why brining kids or a lack thereof into the response wasn&#8217;t sexist.  Of course it was sexist, give me a fucking break already!  You NEVER, EVER hear a man&#8217;s parental status brought up in diatribes like this (although you&#8217;ll hear a hell of a lot of other things).  It couldn&#8217;t BE anymore obviously &#8220;Get that bitch barefoot and back in the kitchen&#8221;.
</p>
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		<title>by: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465812</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/11/let-me-make-that-decision/#comment-465812</guid>
					<description>Is it sexist?

Compare the criticism of this college player with the criticism of Lauren Caitlin Upton in the Miss Teen USA competition (the one who had trouble with the question about geography and maps).

Compare the reactions to each criticism.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is it sexist?</p>
	<p>Compare the criticism of this college player with the criticism of Lauren Caitlin Upton in the Miss Teen USA competition (the one who had trouble with the question about geography and maps).</p>
	<p>Compare the reactions to each criticism.
</p>
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