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	<title>Comments on: Am I going to have a &#8220;suffrage, yes, dammit&#8221; category?</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: teac</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465423</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 02:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465423</guid>
					<description>I'm quite curious as to just how much of a &quot;manly man&quot; Carlson really is. He's all hat and no cattle (thank you Molly Ivins).

So here's my test - all are things my father does. (I do to, but then that skews the test to, you know, lesbo.)

He is to pull his little . . . whatever he drives . . . into my garage. I will hand him a box containing an oil filter, a case of engine oil, and a tool* box (containing the tools he'll need for the job plus red herrings). He is to then change his vehicle's oil.

Then he gets to swap out a duplex electrical outlet for one-a-them fancy designer-lookin' ones. Without shocking himself - he'll have to figure out how to isolate the circuit.

Then he gets to unclog the kitchen sink - using a snake and the drain's cleanout.

Then he gets to vacuum the sofa.

Then he has to make spaghetti sauce from scratch, and make it and the pasta be done at the same time. Oh, and he has to make a salad. And garlic bread, natch.

Then he does the dishes, cleans up all the oil he spilled in the garage, sorts and puts out the recycling, and changes the cat box.

Anyone think he can do any / all of the above?

-----

* None of my tools are pink so there's no need for him to worry about his peeneenee falling off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m quite curious as to just how much of a &#8220;manly man&#8221; Carlson really is. He&#8217;s all hat and no cattle (thank you Molly Ivins).</p>
	<p>So here&#8217;s my test - all are things my father does. (I do to, but then that skews the test to, you know, lesbo.)</p>
	<p>He is to pull his little . . . whatever he drives . . . into my garage. I will hand him a box containing an oil filter, a case of engine oil, and a tool* box (containing the tools he&#8217;ll need for the job plus red herrings). He is to then change his vehicle&#8217;s oil.</p>
	<p>Then he gets to swap out a duplex electrical outlet for one-a-them fancy designer-lookin&#8217; ones. Without shocking himself - he&#8217;ll have to figure out how to isolate the circuit.</p>
	<p>Then he gets to unclog the kitchen sink - using a snake and the drain&#8217;s cleanout.</p>
	<p>Then he gets to vacuum the sofa.</p>
	<p>Then he has to make spaghetti sauce from scratch, and make it and the pasta be done at the same time. Oh, and he has to make a salad. And garlic bread, natch.</p>
	<p>Then he does the dishes, cleans up all the oil he spilled in the garage, sorts and puts out the recycling, and changes the cat box.</p>
	<p>Anyone think he can do any / all of the above?</p>
	<p>&#8212;&#8211;</p>
	<p>* None of my tools are pink so there&#8217;s no need for him to worry about his peeneenee falling off.
</p>
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		<title>by: Rob</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465195</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465195</guid>
					<description>&lt;b&gt;Amanda Marcotte
November 8, 2007 at 9:49 am:&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Oh, they don’t need any evidence in any way about me to make these odd statements. I’m a sex-hating, over-sexed, man-hating, cock-sucking, lesbian with a boyfriend who doesn’t get fucked except for all the crazy slutty fucking. Depends on the wind direction that day.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So...if we can acquire a weather control machine....then....&lt;i&gt;we can make them our SLAVES! &lt;/i&gt;  And not in the fun way, neither. ;)

Slutty fucking rules, btw.

&lt;b&gt;Grendel's Advocate
November 8, 2007 at 1:10 pm:&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Hi all, I have never posted before, but have lurked for some time.
What I cannot understand is the requirement to emasculate men and place them in the category of being effeminate if they do cry at a particular movie. I am a tall muscular hetero with kids of my own and would love to get Mr. Carlsen in a headlock and challenge him to call me effeminate. Who cares if I like Abba? Or going to the theater?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This bullshit about &quot;they aren't real men&quot; seems to be popular with many on the right.  Back when &lt;i&gt;Spider-Man 3&lt;/i&gt; came out, I was reading stuff about how there was too much crying in the film, and this sentiment was echoed by a blogger whom I find so annoying that I don't even want to type her full name (her initials are D.S., she's Orthodox Jewish and very anti-Muslim, also very anti-feminist, and has been mentioned here at Pandagon a time or two before).  Her belief is that any man who cries is a wimp and, to echo her fondness for Schwarzennegerian terminology, a &quot;girly man.&quot;

(Ironically, she had a picture taken with Sylvester Stallone when the last Rocky movie came out, and you might remember that the Rocky character has cried on more than one occasion.  Guess that's not a real man, by her logic, even though she loves the movies and the actor.)

Anyway, I rented Spidey 3 along with &lt;i&gt;Sicko&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Syriana&lt;/i&gt; on my latest trip to Blockbuster, and after what I'd read about all the tears in the movie I expected there to be enough bawling to make me roll my eyes.  There isn't, and when somebody does cry or shed a tear they have a good reason, like a friend dying, or being dumped by somebody they were very much in love with.  The most painful part of the movie for me was seeing Peter Parker make an ass out of himself (and I won't say how since I don't want to be a spoiler machine here), not any displays of emotion.  These are supposed to be human beings, after all.  They should have emotions instead of being emotionless or appearing that way.

(Incidentally, it seems that if you're a woman in that genre of movie, one qualification is knowing how to scream well and repeatedly. *eyeroll*  Which is not to say that I wouldn't shit myself in fear if I were in the same situation that induces these characters to scream--it's just that the idea of &quot;mostly-helpless-female-needing-to-be-rescued-by-male-and-screaming&quot; just gets kind of old, you know?)

Back to the topic at hand...and to Al Franken's book about liars.  One chapter has him challenging Rich Lowry to a fight over the phone, after Lowry stated on the air that Democrats were all wimps or something.  Franken basically told him that he might lose to the guy, but he wasn't going to sit there and let the slight go unanswered.  Lowry didn't agree to fight him, although he later wrote that he thought Franken was making excuses for losing the fight in advance by mentioning his chronic back pain, or some such silliness.

&lt;b&gt;wayward
November 8, 2007 at 7:50 am:&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;For example, Kerry actually is an avid hunter. Bush shoots pen-raised quail. (It’s like shooting chickens.) More prominent Democrats served in the military than Republicans. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Does Bush do that as well?  Far as I knew, it was only Cheney.  And he apparently isn't a very good shot, unless he &lt;i&gt;wanted&lt;/i&gt; to spray his friend with bird shot (including, of course, the face).
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>Amanda Marcotte<br />
November 8, 2007 at 9:49 am:</b></p>
	<blockquote><p>Oh, they don’t need any evidence in any way about me to make these odd statements. I’m a sex-hating, over-sexed, man-hating, cock-sucking, lesbian with a boyfriend who doesn’t get fucked except for all the crazy slutty fucking. Depends on the wind direction that day.</p></blockquote>
	<p>So&#8230;if we can acquire a weather control machine&#8230;.then&#8230;.<i>we can make them our SLAVES! </i>  And not in the fun way, neither. <img src='http://pandagon.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
	<p>Slutty fucking rules, btw.</p>
	<p><b>Grendel&#8217;s Advocate<br />
November 8, 2007 at 1:10 pm:</b></p>
	<blockquote><p>Hi all, I have never posted before, but have lurked for some time.<br />
What I cannot understand is the requirement to emasculate men and place them in the category of being effeminate if they do cry at a particular movie. I am a tall muscular hetero with kids of my own and would love to get Mr. Carlsen in a headlock and challenge him to call me effeminate. Who cares if I like Abba? Or going to the theater?</p></blockquote>
	<p>This bullshit about &#8220;they aren&#8217;t real men&#8221; seems to be popular with many on the right.  Back when <i>Spider-Man 3</i> came out, I was reading stuff about how there was too much crying in the film, and this sentiment was echoed by a blogger whom I find so annoying that I don&#8217;t even want to type her full name (her initials are D.S., she&#8217;s Orthodox Jewish and very anti-Muslim, also very anti-feminist, and has been mentioned here at Pandagon a time or two before).  Her belief is that any man who cries is a wimp and, to echo her fondness for Schwarzennegerian terminology, a &#8220;girly man.&#8221;</p>
	<p>(Ironically, she had a picture taken with Sylvester Stallone when the last Rocky movie came out, and you might remember that the Rocky character has cried on more than one occasion.  Guess that&#8217;s not a real man, by her logic, even though she loves the movies and the actor.)</p>
	<p>Anyway, I rented Spidey 3 along with <i>Sicko</i> and <i>Syriana</i> on my latest trip to Blockbuster, and after what I&#8217;d read about all the tears in the movie I expected there to be enough bawling to make me roll my eyes.  There isn&#8217;t, and when somebody does cry or shed a tear they have a good reason, like a friend dying, or being dumped by somebody they were very much in love with.  The most painful part of the movie for me was seeing Peter Parker make an ass out of himself (and I won&#8217;t say how since I don&#8217;t want to be a spoiler machine here), not any displays of emotion.  These are supposed to be human beings, after all.  They should have emotions instead of being emotionless or appearing that way.</p>
	<p>(Incidentally, it seems that if you&#8217;re a woman in that genre of movie, one qualification is knowing how to scream well and repeatedly. *eyeroll*  Which is not to say that I wouldn&#8217;t shit myself in fear if I were in the same situation that induces these characters to scream&#8211;it&#8217;s just that the idea of &#8220;mostly-helpless-female-needing-to-be-rescued-by-male-and-screaming&#8221; just gets kind of old, you know?)</p>
	<p>Back to the topic at hand&#8230;and to Al Franken&#8217;s book about liars.  One chapter has him challenging Rich Lowry to a fight over the phone, after Lowry stated on the air that Democrats were all wimps or something.  Franken basically told him that he might lose to the guy, but he wasn&#8217;t going to sit there and let the slight go unanswered.  Lowry didn&#8217;t agree to fight him, although he later wrote that he thought Franken was making excuses for losing the fight in advance by mentioning his chronic back pain, or some such silliness.</p>
	<p><b>wayward<br />
November 8, 2007 at 7:50 am:</b></p>
	<blockquote><p>For example, Kerry actually is an avid hunter. Bush shoots pen-raised quail. (It’s like shooting chickens.) More prominent Democrats served in the military than Republicans. </p></blockquote>
	<p>Does Bush do that as well?  Far as I knew, it was only Cheney.  And he apparently isn&#8217;t a very good shot, unless he <i>wanted</i> to spray his friend with bird shot (including, of course, the face).
</p>
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		<title>by: The Sea Hawk</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465064</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465064</guid>
					<description>In America the Marlboro Man is the gauge by which we refer to manliness.  If you are no such thing, then you are not a man.  Ha.  I love our fractured television culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In America the Marlboro Man is the gauge by which we refer to manliness.  If you are no such thing, then you are not a man.  Ha.  I love our fractured television culture.
</p>
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		<title>by: Samantha Vimes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465015</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-465015</guid>
					<description>Thanks for the compliment! Pratchett's Vimes was one source that helped steer me to be a progressive; to realize that it wasn't a bad thing to question the system that keeps the poor down and allows the Bushes Lord Rusts to fool themselves about their merits. So when I started reading political blogs, I figured I'd use my Samantha name (first used in creating a roleplaying character) to comment. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks for the compliment! Pratchett&#8217;s Vimes was one source that helped steer me to be a progressive; to realize that it wasn&#8217;t a bad thing to question the system that keeps the poor down and allows the Bushes Lord Rusts to fool themselves about their merits. So when I started reading political blogs, I figured I&#8217;d use my Samantha name (first used in creating a roleplaying character) to comment.
</p>
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		<title>by: schrödinger\'s cat</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464968</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 03:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464968</guid>
					<description>Phoenician:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;The only other youngish man I’ve ever seen wearing such suits is Stephen Fry.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

But Stephen Fry has established himself as a real man’s man.

Often… &lt;/blockquote&gt;

...nothing against Stephen Fry! My point was that &quot;what's manly&quot; is so tied up with culture. Sorry for being vague. Different culture, different idea of manliness. And I'm meaning the &lt;i&gt;superficial&lt;/i&gt; kind of &quot;manliness&quot; - the kind that says that a &quot;real man&quot; is square-jawed and smelly or whatever. In that superficial sense, hereabouts both Mr Carlson and Mr Fry would be pushing the boundaries a little bit. 

This kind of superficial &quot;manliness&quot; is silly; like little girls saying to one another &quot;you're not a real girl - you aren't wearing anything pink!&quot; Manliness comes in all kinds of shapes and sizes, just as femininity does. Hereabouts, guys who choose to look like Mr Carlson know this, because their own looks and lifestyle isn't all that squarejawed and be-stetson-ed and swaggering. So it's a surprise to hear Mr Carlson, of all people, utter such opinions. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Phoenician:</p>
	<blockquote cite=""><p><i>&#8220;The only other youngish man I’ve ever seen wearing such suits is Stephen Fry.&#8221;</i></p>
	<p>But Stephen Fry has established himself as a real man’s man.</p>
	<p>Often… </p></blockquote>
	<p>&#8230;nothing against Stephen Fry! My point was that &#8220;what&#8217;s manly&#8221; is so tied up with culture. Sorry for being vague. Different culture, different idea of manliness. And I&#8217;m meaning the <i>superficial</i> kind of &#8220;manliness&#8221; - the kind that says that a &#8220;real man&#8221; is square-jawed and smelly or whatever. In that superficial sense, hereabouts both Mr Carlson and Mr Fry would be pushing the boundaries a little bit. </p>
	<p>This kind of superficial &#8220;manliness&#8221; is silly; like little girls saying to one another &#8220;you&#8217;re not a real girl - you aren&#8217;t wearing anything pink!&#8221; Manliness comes in all kinds of shapes and sizes, just as femininity does. Hereabouts, guys who choose to look like Mr Carlson know this, because their own looks and lifestyle isn&#8217;t all that squarejawed and be-stetson-ed and swaggering. So it&#8217;s a surprise to hear Mr Carlson, of all people, utter such opinions.
</p>
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		<title>by: karpad</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464910</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464910</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Tucker Carlson’s manliness: “It’s not a trick. It’s an ILLUSION.”&lt;/i&gt;

yeah, who's Tucker Carlson again?
&quot;He's the pundit in a bowtie. We've been talking about him all thread.&quot;
...Him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Tucker Carlson’s manliness: “It’s not a trick. It’s an ILLUSION.”</i></p>
	<p>yeah, who&#8217;s Tucker Carlson again?<br />
&#8220;He&#8217;s the pundit in a bowtie. We&#8217;ve been talking about him all thread.&#8221;<br />
&#8230;Him?
</p>
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		<title>by: NancyP</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464904</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 20:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464904</guid>
					<description>If Tucker Carlson eats food from Walmart and Shop-n-Save, I'll eat my rubber nurse's clogs. Oh yes, there aren't any cut-rate grocery stores on Park and 53rd, are there.....nor are there any hardware stores in his Manhattan neighborhood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If Tucker Carlson eats food from Walmart and Shop-n-Save, I&#8217;ll eat my rubber nurse&#8217;s clogs. Oh yes, there aren&#8217;t any cut-rate grocery stores on Park and 53rd, are there&#8230;..nor are there any hardware stores in his Manhattan neighborhood.
</p>
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		<title>by: A.</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464898</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464898</guid>
					<description>This is only tangentially related (in that it's about women and relates to feminism), but I'd really love to see your take on this if you felt inspired to comment:

http://reachadvisors.typepad.com/museum_audience_insight/2007/11/november-e-news.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is only tangentially related (in that it&#8217;s about women and relates to feminism), but I&#8217;d really love to see your take on this if you felt inspired to comment:</p>
	<p><a href='http://reachadvisors.typepad.com/museum_audience_insight/2007/11/november-e-news.html' rel='nofollow'>http://reachadvisors.typepad.com/museum_audience_insight/2007/11/november-e-news.html</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: blondie</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464881</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464881</guid>
					<description>
&lt;blockquote&gt;Do people take that irrelevant little pinprick of a human being Carlson seriously? The guy who brought all of his influence to bear to get some poor clerk in a video store fired because the clerk wrote about Carlson on his web log? That Tucker Carlson? The one Jon Stewart called a “dick” on Carlson’s own show?

Carlson is a laughing stock. Is he still wearing bow-ties to try to distinguish himself? &lt;/blockquote&gt;


My thoughts precisely.  Tucker is an insecure dork.  No one should take anything he says seriously, and MSNBC should dump him like the load he is.

Remember, in the wake of recent &quot;wide stance&quot; news, Tucker also claims to have been the recipient of a gay pass in a men's room and to have responded by leaving and coming back with a friend to beat up the pass-maker.  Unadulterated BS.  And yet, he manages to make even such BS offensive.

Tucker is a dork.  (rinse and repeat)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Do people take that irrelevant little pinprick of a human being Carlson seriously? The guy who brought all of his influence to bear to get some poor clerk in a video store fired because the clerk wrote about Carlson on his web log? That Tucker Carlson? The one Jon Stewart called a “dick” on Carlson’s own show?</p>
	<p>Carlson is a laughing stock. Is he still wearing bow-ties to try to distinguish himself? </p></blockquote>
	<p>My thoughts precisely.  Tucker is an insecure dork.  No one should take anything he says seriously, and MSNBC should dump him like the load he is.</p>
	<p>Remember, in the wake of recent &#8220;wide stance&#8221; news, Tucker also claims to have been the recipient of a gay pass in a men&#8217;s room and to have responded by leaving and coming back with a friend to beat up the pass-maker.  Unadulterated BS.  And yet, he manages to make even such BS offensive.</p>
	<p>Tucker is a dork.  (rinse and repeat)
</p>
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		<title>by: cycles</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464878</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/am-i-going-to-have-a-suffrage-yes-dammit-category/#comment-464878</guid>
					<description>Wren said: &lt;i&gt;And that is why you always leave a note.&lt;/i&gt;

Tucker Carlson's manliness: &quot;It's not a trick. It's an ILLUSION.&quot;

And. He has pop-pop in the attic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wren said: <i>And that is why you always leave a note.</i></p>
	<p>Tucker Carlson&#8217;s manliness: &#8220;It&#8217;s not a trick. It&#8217;s an ILLUSION.&#8221;</p>
	<p>And. He has pop-pop in the attic.
</p>
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