<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/1.5.1-alpha" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Welcome to the future</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: Eric, rejector of memes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464918</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464918</guid>
					<description>Observer:  I'm no economist, but according to the CIA World Factbook, Mexico's exports are $250 BILLION dollars, and the U.S. receives 77.4% of that, meaning 193 BILLION dollars.  If criminals are &quot;one of their biggest exports&quot;, I want to know, fuckhead, what exactly are those criminals worth?

I'm also not a proctologist, but I see you are a perfect asshole.

You observe, but you cannot think, therefore you are useless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Observer:  I&#8217;m no economist, but according to the CIA World Factbook, Mexico&#8217;s exports are $250 BILLION dollars, and the U.S. receives 77.4% of that, meaning 193 BILLION dollars.  If criminals are &#8220;one of their biggest exports&#8221;, I want to know, fuckhead, what exactly are those criminals worth?</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m also not a proctologist, but I see you are a perfect asshole.</p>
	<p>You observe, but you cannot think, therefore you are useless.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Elaine Vigneault</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464809</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464809</guid>
					<description>For the record, these disasters are not caused by global warming. They are caused by governmental corruption that results in mismanagement of global warming related weather events. 

Shorter version: Global warming + corrupt governments = displaced, injured, and dead people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For the record, these disasters are not caused by global warming. They are caused by governmental corruption that results in mismanagement of global warming related weather events. </p>
	<p>Shorter version: Global warming + corrupt governments = displaced, injured, and dead people.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Samantha Vimes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464743</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 08:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464743</guid>
					<description>Dr. Granger, I salute you. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dr. Granger, I salute you.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Dr. Hermione Granger, PhD</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464675</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464675</guid>
					<description>&quot;Mexico will never repay any help; as a country, it is unwilling to even prevent people from committing a felony by illegally entering the country. One of its biggest exports to us is criminals. Some neighbor.&quot;

Observer:
I hope one of these so-called &quot;criminals&quot; serves you unsanitary water while performing an underpaid job that you're &quot;too good for.&quot; And then steals your place in line at the ER getting free medical treatment living off of your hard-earned tax dollar. 

Please leave this thread and fall off a building.

Love,
Dr. Granger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Mexico will never repay any help; as a country, it is unwilling to even prevent people from committing a felony by illegally entering the country. One of its biggest exports to us is criminals. Some neighbor.&#8221;</p>
	<p>Observer:<br />
I hope one of these so-called &#8220;criminals&#8221; serves you unsanitary water while performing an underpaid job that you&#8217;re &#8220;too good for.&#8221; And then steals your place in line at the ER getting free medical treatment living off of your hard-earned tax dollar. </p>
	<p>Please leave this thread and fall off a building.</p>
	<p>Love,<br />
Dr. Granger
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: PhoenicianRomans</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464667</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464667</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;To blame free markets in general and to go along with the assumption the free markets are synonomous with corporate feudalism is to cede a powerful, useful, and mostly correct idea to the status quo power structure.&lt;/i&gt;

Nobody blames free markets per se.  Free markets are a tool, an extremely useful tool, one which helps foster free societies and produces great wealth.

But they are just that - a tool.  Not a god.

I, for one, don't rail against free markets.  I rail against the &lt;b&gt;worship&lt;/b&gt; of free markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>To blame free markets in general and to go along with the assumption the free markets are synonomous with corporate feudalism is to cede a powerful, useful, and mostly correct idea to the status quo power structure.</i></p>
	<p>Nobody blames free markets per se.  Free markets are a tool, an extremely useful tool, one which helps foster free societies and produces great wealth.</p>
	<p>But they are just that - a tool.  Not a god.</p>
	<p>I, for one, don&#8217;t rail against free markets.  I rail against the <b>worship</b> of free markets.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Praxis</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464652</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464652</guid>
					<description>Observer,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Kiernan– Empirically, that’s false. If Mexican immigrants were in fact exploited, then they wouldn’t come here to work. Rather, they can illegally take jobs, then impose the costs on Americans as externalities. It is a variant of the free rider/tragedy of the commons problem. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Because of course it is impossible to even consider that working long hours for bellow minimum wage with no job security or benefits in potentially unsafe conditions in the U.S. might be a preferable option, while still exploitative, than barely scraping out a marginal existence in one of the slums ringing Mexico's major cities.

Of course neither does it bear on this  choice between bad and worse the effects of NAFTA in destroying the livelihoods of a vast number of peasant and semi-peasant agricultural producers in southern Mexico and the subsequent flood of rural outmigration into an urbanized Mexican economy well and truly unable to absorb the influx...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Observer,</p>
	<blockquote><p>Kiernan– Empirically, that’s false. If Mexican immigrants were in fact exploited, then they wouldn’t come here to work. Rather, they can illegally take jobs, then impose the costs on Americans as externalities. It is a variant of the free rider/tragedy of the commons problem. </p></blockquote>
	<p>Because of course it is impossible to even consider that working long hours for bellow minimum wage with no job security or benefits in potentially unsafe conditions in the U.S. might be a preferable option, while still exploitative, than barely scraping out a marginal existence in one of the slums ringing Mexico&#8217;s major cities.</p>
	<p>Of course neither does it bear on this  choice between bad and worse the effects of NAFTA in destroying the livelihoods of a vast number of peasant and semi-peasant agricultural producers in southern Mexico and the subsequent flood of rural outmigration into an urbanized Mexican economy well and truly unable to absorb the influx&#8230;
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Arianna</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464649</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464649</guid>
					<description>has, even.  I think I better get back to my paper...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>has, even.  I think I better get back to my paper&#8230;
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Arianna</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464648</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464648</guid>
					<description>To be fair Decnavda, I think Amanda was a pretty strong history of being pro markets that are &lt;i&gt; actually &lt;/i&gt; free (i.e. with proper government regulation so as to prevent what you so aptly call corporate feudalism) as opposed to &quot;free markets&quot; as commonly conceived of in the US.  Sometimes the line between snarky use of conventional terminology and not gets blurry though, especially if you're not fully versed in the entire pandagonian oeuvre.  

As an aside, Canada has pledged $500k, and will provide experts if requested, which while rather low, comes from a country with roughly 10% of the population of the US...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To be fair Decnavda, I think Amanda was a pretty strong history of being pro markets that are <i> actually </i> free (i.e. with proper government regulation so as to prevent what you so aptly call corporate feudalism) as opposed to &#8220;free markets&#8221; as commonly conceived of in the US.  Sometimes the line between snarky use of conventional terminology and not gets blurry though, especially if you&#8217;re not fully versed in the entire pandagonian oeuvre.  </p>
	<p>As an aside, Canada has pledged $500k, and will provide experts if requested, which while rather low, comes from a country with roughly 10% of the population of the US&#8230;
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Praxis</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464647</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464647</guid>
					<description>Dana,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Uhhh, no. Floods like this overwhelm sanitation facilities and sometimes hydraulically exhume buried corpses. Whatever water there is to drink has not gone through normal purification processes. To note that disease outbreaks are possible is neither racist (anybody can get sick) nor scare-mongering. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Notwithstanding your complete lack of familiarity with the long and &lt;a href=&quot;http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/06/immigrants-and-disease.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;well documented&lt;/a&gt; history of associating disease with immigrants in racist anti-immigrant rhetoric, it bears asking why there is such a consistency in using the language of a feared outbreak of disease amongst Mexicans rather than using the usual discussion of water treatment and contaminated water...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dana,</p>
	<blockquote><p>Uhhh, no. Floods like this overwhelm sanitation facilities and sometimes hydraulically exhume buried corpses. Whatever water there is to drink has not gone through normal purification processes. To note that disease outbreaks are possible is neither racist (anybody can get sick) nor scare-mongering. </p></blockquote>
	<p>Notwithstanding your complete lack of familiarity with the long and <a href="http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/06/immigrants-and-disease.html" rel="nofollow">well documented</a> history of associating disease with immigrants in racist anti-immigrant rhetoric, it bears asking why there is such a consistency in using the language of a feared outbreak of disease amongst Mexicans rather than using the usual discussion of water treatment and contaminated water&#8230;
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464638</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/6291/#comment-464638</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Does ANYBODY here know ANYTHING about free market theory?&lt;/i&gt;

I know how the free market is supposed to work &lt;i&gt;in theory&lt;/i&gt;:  workers trade their labor to employers in exchange for compensation.  Wages should go up and down depending on how many workers are available to do a particular job.  In theory, if an employer has a hard time finding workers for a particular job at a specific wage, the wage for that job should rise until it gets to a level that someone will freely accept the job.

However, that's not how our &quot;free market&quot; works.  Right now, our &quot;free market&quot; keeps wages at an artificially low level by bringing in people who will work for sub-minimum wages at levels that free workers can't afford to accept. 

The free market is a very nice theory, as long as everyone on both sides plays fair.  That ain't what's happening in our &quot;free market,&quot; though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Does ANYBODY here know ANYTHING about free market theory?</i></p>
	<p>I know how the free market is supposed to work <i>in theory</i>:  workers trade their labor to employers in exchange for compensation.  Wages should go up and down depending on how many workers are available to do a particular job.  In theory, if an employer has a hard time finding workers for a particular job at a specific wage, the wage for that job should rise until it gets to a level that someone will freely accept the job.</p>
	<p>However, that&#8217;s not how our &#8220;free market&#8221; works.  Right now, our &#8220;free market&#8221; keeps wages at an artificially low level by bringing in people who will work for sub-minimum wages at levels that free workers can&#8217;t afford to accept. </p>
	<p>The free market is a very nice theory, as long as everyone on both sides plays fair.  That ain&#8217;t what&#8217;s happening in our &#8220;free market,&#8221; though.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
